My faith is better than your faith

[MarcoPolo]

If it doesn’t matter…come worship with us Catholics and receive Jesus in the Eucharist as He said in John 6.

See, we can still teach our faith while showing respect!

I have no problem with that, but that’s not going to happen.

Then how you worship DOES matter to you. As it does to God.

 

[Veritas248]

Contraception, Abortion, Homosexuality, True Presence, Apostolic Sucession, Tradition and Scripture, Faith, Works, and Grace…the list goes on. I’ll ask again: Why the dramatic changes? Catholicism (and in most ways Eastern Orthodoxy) are the only Christian faiths that have not changed so dramatically in there stances on these critical moral and doctrinal issues.

I say again: “I am Truth and do not change.”-God

 

[MarcoPolo]

I thought Catholics were supposed to be more tolerant of others but I certainly don’t see it here.

What’s “intolerant” about teaching one’s faith?

 

[guanophore]

Most all faiths agree on the Christian basics.

No, mikew, this is not the case. On the contrary, most cannot even agree on what the “basics” are!

From the very foundation of the inception of the Church, most Christains cannot agree on whether Jesus was building it upon HImself, Peters statement, or Peter.

 

[soma]

Catholic means universal.

The first commandment is “I am the Lord thy God and thou shall not have strange Gods before Me.” This is the basis for the conviction that there is only one God, a belief that leads to the knowledge of unity, which once accomplished influences and helps us in our daily lives. There is only one God appearing before us, and this one God is for everyone embodying the secrets for successful living in His all-pervading consciousness. In the awareness of God’s omnipresence we realize that God is all loving and always present so there is no need to fear either man or his developments because God has full power. The vigilance to stay in the ark of God’s pure consciousness takes discipline, but satisfies our basic spiritual need by acting as a counter-weight to the ever increasing nervous, mental and physical tensions in modern life. This counteraction to the deterioration caused by our daily fight for survival helps us to grow healthier and more relaxed as we become calm, less inclined to agitation, frustration and a bad frame of mind. Therefore, the reassuring first step to know the meaning of God is to develop the conscious awareness of His omnipresence, which is ancient and as modern as the space age. Dedication to the recognition of this one God as an art and the unity of all things in His consciousness as a science will eliminate the stress and hustle of modern life. The people trying to prove that their God is more powerful are just making themselves uptight.
Jesus said, “Love thy neighbor as thyself,” because it provides an effective answer to the many problems of modern life. This call for love tells us that we are united and that no other person is separate or apart in God’s spiritual consciousness. Recognizing that we are all one in God’s consciousness gives us full protection in His unity by integrating our individual life with the world around us and providing a basic harmony and equilibrium in our hearts and minds. This is a kind of insurance from the flood of negativity surrounding us because a relaxed mind and body is positive, priceless and an indestructible way to receive successful ideas and results. When one is open and receptive, one receives ideas that guide one to prosperity because positive ideas attract while negativity repels. We find safety, security and a successful attitude in the knowledge that we are all God’s children because in unity there is nothing to fear. Unity is love so emphasis on religious differences, race or intolerance rather that the unity of God is a **strange god indeed **and can be a challenge for us to overcome so we need to invoke the unity of God in all things. God is within each one of us so the first step is to open our consciousness to the unity of His spiritual consciousness because God reveals Himself in the condition of love, which is a kind of spiritual and physical unity.

 

[guanophore]

Trapped in relativism? I rather think I’m trying to act/think like a Christian and trying to get some fellow Christians to break away from the this “my faith is better than yours” mindset. It just serves to further the divisions already out there.

Relativism is your belief that there is no objective truth. That everyone has their own “truth” and that is valid for them, and that we should all approve and encourage that.

It is hard for me to speak to your perception of competition, because I do not have the sense of ownership you perceive about “faith”. I believe that the Apostolic faith is passed down to me through the Succession. It does not belong to me, so it is not “my faith”. It is more a case of me belonging to it.

What I see is that there is a fullness of faith, then there are some who have departed from it. So, not having this mindset, I am thinking that you are speaking about your own mindset and perception. You are seeing this competition that does not exist for me.

However, I will agree that there is bigotry on all sides, and lack of tolerance.

What am I doing about it? I started this thread for one thing. As a practicing Catholic, I believe in the teachings of the Church (the vast majority of them anyway), however as a Catholic, that doesn’t mean I don’t have respect for the other Christian denominations out there.

It sounds like you are a cafeteria Catholic, which is the fruit of relativism.

The Catholic church teaches that we are to have respect for all, and to affirm and nurture the work of the HS among our separated brethren. Any Catholic who fails in this is not living up to the standard of Christ.

However, confirming others in error is not an act of love, and it is possible to respectfully disagree, and point the one immutable Truth in a gracious manner.

 

[guanophore]

Who says I’m rejecting the Catholic faith? I’m saying be tolerant of the other Christian faiths. Sounds like I’m trying to be a good Christian to me.

That is the impression you give when you make non-Catholic assertions, and statements such as “I believe most of what the Church teaches”.

 

[guanophore]

It gets very nasty but here is the fact:

The Catholic Church has the whole and complete truth.
All other Religions ecspeically protestants and Jews have traces and parts of the truth but the whole.

This is not “nasty”. This is reality. Equating the telling of Truth with “nasty” is a modern poisonous fruit of relativism.

This is how Jesus taught it, an this is how the Apostles taught it, an men and women of faith for 2000 years. It is truth. Yes, maybe the truth hurts (it sure hurt me a lot when I was in my relativist phase) but it is only “nasty” in the eye of the beholder. If mikew thinks that the truth is “nasty”, then the “nasty” is in the perception, not in the reality.

 

[guanophore]

This really is more of an attack on other religions than anything else. Why can’t each person worship the way he or she wants? There is only one God so as long as we are obeying His commandments then we can’t be too far off base. I thought Catholics were supposed to be more tolerant of others but I certainly don’t see it here. I’ve seen a lot of discussion but nothing that really helps anyone.

The clinging to a Truth revealed by God does not equate to an “attack” on others. This accusation puts me in mind of Antiochus, and the Maccabean revolt. The faithful Jews refused to worship the Pagan God, and it was perceived as an “attack”. We see the same throughout the book of Acts, where Christians are accused of “subverting our nation”.

Of course each person can worship the way they want!

People can have sex with whoever or whatever they want, people can throw themselves into all manner of carnal pleasures, as much as they want! It is wrong to ask others to approve or affirm such things when they believe it is not right.

Catholics believe that it is not for humans to decide how God is to be worshipped. On the contrary, He is the Creator, and we are th creatures. We are to worship Him according to His standards and commandments. He has made it clear that we are to worship Him in spirit, and in truth. Therefore, the manner of worship is essential, so far as Catholics are concerned.

 

[soma]

Originally Posted by mikew262 View Post
Who says I’m rejecting the Catholic faith? I’m saying be tolerant of the other Christian faiths. Sounds like I’m trying to be a good Christian to me.

Mike you are a good Christian. Your Christianity is very deep. Others will not understand you until they go deeper in the meaning of God’s word.

Defending limitations strengthens them limiting our beliefs and realities so to be successful we need the tool of knowledge to explore the unknown and find a deeper meaning in the word of God.

 

[guanophore]

Mike you are a good Christian. Your Christianity is very deep. Others will not understand you until they go deeper in the meaning of God’s word.

Defending limitations strengthens them limiting our beliefs and realities so to be successful we need the tool of knowledge to explore the unknown and find a deeper meaning in the word of God.

The truth is that there are limitations to human freedom. Teaching the Truth, however, does not limit another persons’ beliefs. It will not limit your “realities” either.

You see that God gave Adam and Eve to eat of all the trees of the garden except the tree of knowledge. God has placed a boundary. He alone wanted to be the source of their knowledge of good and evil.

You also see that God allowed them to violate the boundary.
Humans have the God given freedom to go beyond the boundaries He has set for us. Using that freedom, we can spurn the Spirit and Truth in which He has called us to worship, and invent our own methods.

When we stand before HIm, and we are called to give an account of how we followed His commandments, we are free to say “I did not agree with all of them, and I decided to go “deeper” and find my own”.

 

[soma]

Don’t be afraid to go deeper in the truth. It is not wrong to study, contemplate and grow closer to God.

To know others is knowledge.
To know oneself is wisdom.

Don’t burn your books, read them.

 

[anamchara]

Trapped in relativism? I rather think I’m trying to act/think like a Christian and trying to get some fellow Christians to break away from the this “my faith is better than yours” mindset. It just serves to further the divisions already out there.

What am I doing about it? I started this thread for one thing. As a practicing Catholic, I believe in the teachings of the Church (the vast majority of them anyway), however as a Catholic, that doesn’t mean I don’t have respect for the other Christian denominations out there.

Oh boy, God Bless you mike! As I was reading through this,I was wondering how long it would take before someone started spouting relativism and questioning your Catholic worthiness.

I’ve been noticing a great deal of competitiveness in here as well. I notice Catholics being bullies more than I’ve notice Protestants doing the same thing but then it could be that it is standing out for me because I am Catholic.

I’m sorry I missed this thread when you posted it.

I agree with you on everything 100%.

 

[Julianna]

Oh boy, God Bless you mike! As I was reading through this,I was wondering how long it would take before someone started spouting relativism and questioning your Catholic worthiness.

I’ve been noticing a great deal of competitiveness in here as well. I notice Catholics being bullies more than I’ve notice Protestants doing the same thing but then it could be that it is standing out for me because I am Catholic.

I’m sorry I missed this thread when you posted it.

I agree with you on everything 100%.

oh, and lest we forget he is also a “cafeteria catholic” as well.

I wish I could get a hold of that crystal ball that only a few have so I would be able to tell who is the better Catholic and better yet…I would have a good insight into why Protestants have got it all wrong.

 

[anamchara]

oh, and lest we forget he is also a “cafeteria catholic” as well.

I wish I could get a hold of that crystal ball that only a few have so I would be able to tell who is the better Catholic and better yet…I would have a good insight into why Protestants have got it all wrong.

well said my friend.

I had forgotten about the cafeteria catholic comment. What got me, was the side chatter from one poster to another directed at Mike “*I’m starting to have my doubts with him…”

*Ooo,call the Vatican typical

 

[mikew262]

“IMO, these types of attitudes do nothing but fuel the divisiveness between the various Christian denominations and Catholicism and accomplish nothing positive. Instead of trying to find fault, why not rejoice in the what they most all have in common.”

No doubt. I used to think the way you do. I still do, sort of, privately. Once I fully realized the degree to which a huge percentage of American Protestants (I include Born-Again Christians in this bunch) loathe the Catholic Church, however, I abandoned ecumenism and embraced the active defense of Catholicism instead. This is now one of my *causes. * In my opinion, we can’t afford to champion ecumenism, in light of the hatred our enemies harbor for us. The more we let our guard down, the more vulnerable we make ourselves. What we are must endure for as long as Mankind exists. It can’t be diluted or merged with outside belief systems. It must be preserved and handed on in pristine condition.

So the answer is we just hate each other, and treat each other as the enemy?? Bad answer! I will actively defend Catholicism against any attack by a Protestant, don’t get me wrong, but taking an active adversarial relationship against each other is definitely not the answer. Not very Christian either.

 

[mikew262]

Oh boy, God Bless you mike! As I was reading through this,I was wondering how long it would take before someone started spouting relativism and questioning your Catholic worthiness.

I’ve been noticing a great deal of competitiveness in here as well. I notice Catholics being bullies more than I’ve notice Protestants doing the same thing but then it could be that it is standing out for me because I am Catholic.

I’m sorry I missed this thread when you posted it.

I agree with you on everything 100%.

Thanks for the support.

 

[PBP]

On another thread which was recently closed down, a lot of the discussion indirectly centered around the “My faith is better than your faith” concept. In other words, some Catholics were saying and/or insinuatiing our faith is the true faith and the whole truth and your Protestant faith is lacking and thus imperfect. Likewise some Protestants were saying the Catholic faith encouraged idol worship and spread a false gospel.

IMO, these types of attitudes do nothing but fuel the divisiveness between the various Christian denominations and Catholicism and accomplish nothing positive. Instead of trying to find fault, why not rejoice in the what they most all have in common.

• Christ is the Son of God
• Trinity
• Christ died for our sins
• The Resurrection

Most Christian groups all believe the above things. While we may worship God differently to some respect, most all agree on the basics. Does God really care that we worship differently, as long as we are sincere in that worship?

This may have been discussed enough already on the other thread, but I invite anyone’s comments. However, lets try to keep a charitable tone.

Jesus let those who didnt like his teaching of the eucharist to simply walk away. Christ established an order of sacrifice and worship. Jesus said I would have no life in me without the eucharist. HIS words, not mine. Does it matter ? I think Jesus was clear. Why do you remain Catholic ?
Respectfully

 

[Lapell]

On another thread which was recently closed down, a lot of the discussion indirectly centered around the “My faith is better than your faith” concept. In other words, some Catholics were saying and/or insinuatiing our faith is the true faith and the whole truth and your Protestant faith is lacking and thus imperfect. Likewise some Protestants were saying the Catholic faith encouraged idol worship and spread a false gospel.

IMO, these types of attitudes do nothing but fuel the divisiveness between the various Christian denominations and Catholicism and accomplish nothing positive. Instead of trying to find fault, why not rejoice in the what they most all have in common.

• Christ is the Son of God
• Trinity
• Christ died for our sins
• The Resurrection

Most Christian groups all believe the above things. While we may worship God differently to some respect, most all agree on the basics. Does God really care that we worship differently, as long as we are sincere in that worship?

This may have been discussed enough already on the other thread, but I invite anyone’s comments. However, lets try to keep a charitable tone.

Sorry if I haven’t read anything but the OP…
But according to some, something like 70% or maybe even more of all what Catholics and Protestants believe are common to both. So indeed there is a lot of good things to stress on. I agree.
Here in our city, we have had a multi-denominational event called Proclamation, where for 10 days the whole Bible (minus the Deuterocanonical Books) is read by many people of various denominations. In our city even Jews participated, and why not!
And you know, many participants have become quite open to other participants of other denominations. I believe it to be quite good ecumenism. It doesn’t mean we would water down our respective doctrines, but that on certain things we can work together. There are still problems at times, but quite frankly, the good fruits apparently are there. I would certainly encourage something like this to happen in your areas if it were feasable.

 

[guanophore]

Oh boy, God Bless you mike! As I was reading through this,I was wondering how long it would take before someone started spouting relativism and questioning your Catholic worthiness.

I’ve been noticing a great deal of competitiveness in here as well. I notice Catholics being bullies more than I’ve notice Protestants doing the same thing but then it could be that it is standing out for me because I am Catholic.

I’m sorry I missed this thread when you posted it.

I agree with you on everything 100%.

Do you agree, then, with mike, that there is no objective truth? Does Christ want everyone to do what is right in his own eyes?

Is it hunky dory with God that people make up their own methods of following HIm, instead of accepting the ones He revealed?