My father in-law is as anti-Catholic as the late Jack Chick

[po18guy]

I believe that there is absolutely nothing - nothing - that you can give them, or words that you can say which will sway their beliefs. They have chosen to believe lies, and lies are the foundation of all hatred and discrimination.

The Holy Spirit, on the other hand, has that power. Fasting and prayer are not popular, and not immediate solutions. They do not make us feel better. They do not win arguments and cause others to agree with us. They simply appeal to the Holy Spirit, Who alone can influence them in Divine ways.

Understand that, as long as they believe lies, you will suffer. For your part, you can bear patiently with them, not arguing, but showing Christian example. You will want to go outside and scream at times (and may have to), as well as shield your children from them to a certain degree.

My heart hurts for you, as these can be extremely painful situations. Prayers are ascending on your behalf.

 

[adamhovey1988]

One of his arguments is that the KJV accurately describes Mary as the biological mother of several children. When we tell him that the greek word for brother (referring to James the “brother” of Jesus) is a broad term which includes cousins, he just dismisses it and says that we’ve been decieved by the Catholic Church.

Okay…so KJV onlyists,it seems. Also being “raised Catholic” does not mean that you were accurately taught Catholicism. There is a priest on youtube (Fr. John Hollowell) that said that he was not taught that you couldn’t chew gum whilst consuming the Eucharist (or something of that sort). Here are some issues about the KJV Bible. catholic.com/blog/trent-horn/ever-heard-of-the-cockatrice
catholic.com/tracts/bible-translations-guide
catholic.com/quickquestions/was-king-james-persecuted-by-the-church-for-translating-the-bible-into-english
catholic.com/magazine/articles/she-just-knows-catholics-are-wrong
Now, not all of this is going to help, but it should be a good springboard. If he was a debate, give him a debate. I love the Jesuit conspiracy ones. I like to argue, that, if Jesuits controlled the world, wouldn’t everyone already be Catholic?

 

[Tim_D]

If he wants a debate, give him a debate.

He does not want a debate; he wants a podium from which to speak. Encouraging or engaging him is only going to make matters worse. Better to simply avoid the topic, even to the point of letting him know that you simply don’t want to talk about it, than to cause a dilemma that can ruin the entire relationship.

 

[Memaw]

Hi everyone, I’ve been posting about how my parents in-law have been somewhat hostile to our Catholic faith and it seems to be getting worse. Last night my wife came back from her parents’ place and she shared with me a list of things they now believe about the Catholic Church:

• The Jesuits control just about everything (the President of the USA included) and are the cause of many evil events including the assassinations of Abraham Lincoln and JFK.
• Pope Clement the XIV was poisoned and killed by Jesuits.
• Popes regard themselves as equal to God.
• The Catholic Church condemned people from reading the Bible in order to control/manipulate them.

*Catholic Bibles can’t be trusted because they deliberately distort the meaning of the texts to fit Catholic doctrine.

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this level of confusion? I suspect that if we were to give him a book or even just an article defending the Catholic faith that he’d dismiss it as Catholic propaganda. They are otherwise very kind to our family but as soon as the topic of Catholicism comes up there’s just no way of having a dialogue. He’s also very assertive, “this is the way it is because this is the way it is, and that’s that!”

Other than praying an kindness, any suggestions?

Ask them to PROVE what they claim!!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[EasterJoy]

I can’t really change the subject because he sometimes goes on half hour rants.

@Xiantippe

I have no reason to think they are mentally ill. Both parents are on board with this stuff and they are otherwise very reasonable people. Also, they’re just in their late 50’s.

They are your wife’s parents. Concern yourself with her feelings about the matter. As long as it does not involve lying, do whatever she wants you to do. If she wants you to argue with them, do it. If she wants you to ignore them, do that. Insist on maintaining your integrity, but as Our Lord cautioned us not to throw pearls before swine or to give what is holy to dogs, you do not need to feel bound to jump in to a debate about this. Instead, concentrate on what makes your wife feel you are supporting her.

 

[heidi_storage]

Ask them to PROVE what they claim!!! God Bless, Memaw

I don’t think the OP would want to do that, as it would basically be giving his FIL carte blanche to rant.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

One of his arguments is that the KJV accurately describes Mary as the biological mother of several children. When we tell him that the greek word for brother (referring to James the “brother” of Jesus) is a broad term which includes cousins, he just dismisses it and says that we’ve been decieved by the Catholic Church.

I don’t know whether you plan to engage your relatives further - but, if you are interested, you can actually refute this one straight from Scripture. I saved it after reading it in a CAF thread a couple of years ago, because it is simple but brilliant. See below (credit to CAF poster Randy Carson):

Have you ever noticed that they are always mentioned as Brothers and sisters of Jesus but NEVER as children of Mary? Why not?

Brothers of Jesus, Not Sons of Mary

Many non-Catholics deny the Perpetual Virginity of Mary by referring to passages of scripture that mention the “brothers” of Jesus. A rigorous analysis of scripture, however, proves their position is false. Consider the following:

1. Jesus had a “brother” named James.
"Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?” (Matthew 13:55)

2. James, the Lord’s “brother”, is an apostle.“Then, after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. (Galatians 1:18-19)

3. There are two apostles named James.
“When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.” (Luke 6:13-16)

**4. One James (the brother of John) is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his father is Zebedee. **
“James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder)” (Mark 3:17)

5. The other apostle named James is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his father is Alpheus.
“And when it was day, he called his disciples, and chose from them twelve, whom he called apostles: Simon, whom he named Peter and Andrew his brother, and James and John and Philip and Bartholomew, and Matthew and James the son of Alpheus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, and Judas the son of James and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.” (Luke 6:13-16)

6. Therefore, neither apostle named James was a uterine brother of Jesus.

7. The man named Joseph (or Joses) is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his mother is Mary and his brother is James. Therefore, this Mary is the wife of Alphaeus.
“Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s sons.” (Matthew 27:55-56)

8. Judas is not a uterine brother of Jesus because he is the son of James.
“When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James.” (Acts 1:13)

**9. While Matthew 15:35 declares James, Joseph and Judas to be the “brothers” of Jesus, it has been demonstrated from scripture that they are NOT uterine brothers of the Lord. From this, it is apparent that scripture must be using the term “brothers” to mean relatives other than sons of Mary. **

Posted by “Randy Carson” on Catholic Answers forms, Dec. 18, 2014 forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=929515&page=4

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

another victim of Chick crack … some may not like the pun, but I think it’s appropriate given the addictive nature of this material for those caught its web and unable to be persuaded.

Not much one can do. I walked away from a friendship when the other guy turned anti-Catholic in a similar way. I had fallen from the Church by then, but I wasn’t so far gone that I would turn against it the way he did. He couldn’t be swayed and we ended up going our separate ways. But obviously that is not an option for the OP. If he won’t change the subject, the OP should at least get up and walk out of the room. He likes an audience for this sort of thing, that at least can be denied to him.

 

[MaryT777]

another victim of Chick crack … some may not like the pun, but I think it’s appropriate given the addictive nature of this material for those caught its web and unable to be persuaded.

Not much one can do. I walked away from a friendship when the other guy turned anti-Catholic in a similar way. I had fallen from the Church by then, but I wasn’t so far gone that I would turn against it the way he did. He couldn’t be swayed and we ended up going our separate ways. But obviously that is not an option for the OP. If he won’t change the subject, the OP should at least get up and walk out of the room. He likes an audience for this sort of thing, that at least can be denied to him.

Yes, this is good advice as well. Engaging in this conversation with this man will bear no good fruit at this point in time and walking out of the room if necessary would be prudent.

Mary.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Hi everyone, I’ve been posting about how my parents in-law have been somewhat hostile to our Catholic faith and it seems to be getting worse. Last night my wife came back from her parents’ place and she shared with me a list of things they now believe about the Catholic Church:

• The Jesuits control just about everything (the President of the USA included) and are the cause of many evil events including the assassinations of Abraham Lincoln and JFK.
• Pope Clement the XIV was poisoned and killed by Jesuits.
• Popes regard themselves as equal to God.
• The Catholic Church condemned people from reading the Bible in order to control/manipulate them.

*Catholic Bibles can’t be trusted because they deliberately distort the meaning of the texts to fit Catholic doctrine.

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this level of confusion? I suspect that if we were to give him a book or even just an article defending the Catholic faith that he’d dismiss it as Catholic propaganda. They are otherwise very kind to our family but as soon as the topic of Catholicism comes up there’s just no way of having a dialogue. He’s also very assertive, “this is the way it is because this is the way it is, and that’s that!”

Other than praying an kindness, any suggestions?

You have mischaracterised it when you have said it is “confusion.”

Having read through the posts, I also find much advice you are receiving is fruitless since it is not oriented toward the on-going relationship but the advice of strangers who do not interact with this couple, your in-laws, on an on-going basis and never will.

Ultimately, I presume, these are people with whom you and your wife obviously wish to maintain some degree of relationship since the evident answer, normally, would be to disassociate from people who speak nonsense or are otherwise delusional or detached from reality.

Whether it is what you list or those who do not accept that man has traveled to space or, for that matter, those who still think the world is flat, one must accept that such people have some disconnect from reality. It is not a matter of convincing them of some error in their reasoning or thought process since their position is utterly irrational, which is why I said “confusion” is a mischaracterisation.

Trying to argue with those who are being irrational is an exercise in futility.

In my experience, one’s only real recourse is to say that the subject is simply off the table and if a conversation goes that way, one announces one’s departure, if the conversation is going to proceed off to Wonderland…and then leave. Although, frankly, what you describe is less a conversation and more a monologue or a diatribe.

Ultimately it is a decision of theirs and of yours…are their irrational thoughts and desire to harangue you and their daughter more significant to them than maintaining a relationship with their daughter and her husband? If that were indeed the case, then they are truly sad people to be pitied and lamented.

You say that they are otherwise very nice, except on this subject. There needs, then, to be an agreement that this subject is simply never to be mentioned again

 

[jediliz]

One of his arguments is that the KJV accurately describes Mary as the biological mother of several children. When we tell him that the greek word for brother (referring to James the “brother” of Jesus) is a broad term which includes cousins, he just dismisses it and says that we’ve been decieved by the Catholic Church.

Then ask him why Jesus gave the care of his Mother over to John, the son of Zebedee instead of having his “brothers and sisters” care for her…

 

[Moneyball]

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut everyone, I very much appreciate it.

They are your wife’s parents. Concern yourself with her feelings about the matter. As long as it does not involve lying, do whatever she wants you to do. If she wants you to argue with them, do it. If she wants you to ignore them, do that. Insist on maintaining your integrity, but as Our Lord cautioned us not to throw pearls before swine or to give what is holy to dogs, you do not need to feel bound to jump in to a debate about this. Instead, concentrate on what makes your wife feel you are supporting her.

My wife and I are both on the same page on this one, that if we are to defend our faith she will be the one doing most of the talking. At most I’d ask a question or two. Unfortunately at this point I don’t know if asking questions would help. I know for a fact that they pray that we leave the Catholic Church and instead join a protestant church (preferably Baptist)… my concern is that if I sit there and listen attentively (as well as ask questions) I’m giving him the impression that I’m actually learning something from him and that I might consider leaving the faith. At worst I might even be tacitly encouraging him to look for more anti-Catholic garbage online.

On the other hand I’m still holding on hope (rightly or wrongly) that he might drop those charges against the Church as quickly as he picked them up… I honestly think he just read a few anti-Catholic articles online (Jack Chick style) and took it wholesale. Part of me wonders if it would serve any good to tell him who Jack Chick is and how a lot of these myths spread. I guess the big question for me is if he looks for these things to inform himself or simply to affirm himself.

 

[Moneyball]

Allow me to address each of these criticism individually.

1. The jesuits were not behind those event. Why would they kill the only catholic president?
2. Once again, why would jesuits kill the pope? It just doesn’t make sense.
3. They do not see themselves absent equal to god. They aren’t modern day versions of the pharaohs, they see themselves as very below god and servants of him. That said, not ALL popes of the past have been the most humble…
4. If the church in the past prohibited or discouraged anybody from reading the holy scriptures it was likely so they wouldn’t come up with 1,000+ different interpretations of each verse, breaking the church and creating hundreds of different versions of christianity. Which eventually happened regardless.
5. With the exception of the inclusion of the deuterocanonical books I see little to no difference between protestant and catholic bibles.

Based on what he told my wife I can only give you his answers to the first three:

1. Because both Lincoln and JFK refused to allow Jesuits to influence them.
2. Because this Pope wanted to get rid of the Society of Jesus.
3. He says that by definition the title “vicar of Christ” means “equal to Christ”

 

[SyroMalankara]

If I were you, seriously, I would tell your father in law that you read the Bible and pray, and the Spirit confirms to you constantly that the Church is what it claims she is. If you are going to consider leaving, God would have to reveal it in your heart, none of his wrong opinion and misstatements are equal to the Holy Spirit’s confirmation to you and your wife. Most Baptists, despite the claim of Bible and faith alone, put stock in personal conversion experience above all of these, as many sermons and witness statements prove (in their mind)

 

[Book_Worm]

I’d tell them both once, politely and calmly, that you strongly disagree with his claims and that you will not listen to them any longer. The next time he begins his rants, quietly remind him that you will not listen to them and leave (or bring them their coats if they are at your house). After that, just tell them you’re leaving now without any explanation every time he brings up the subject. Possibly stretch the time between visits a little more than usual, which is more effective if there are grandchildren involved.

Don’t argue, don’t engage. You cannot change their minds, and you do not have to be subjected to insults about your religious beliefs from anyone.

 

[Tim_D]

Having read through the posts, I also find much advice you are receiving is fruitless since it is not oriented toward the on-going relationship but the advice of strangers who do not interact with this couple, your in-laws, on an on-going basis and never will…In my experience, one’s only real recourse is to say that the subject is simply off the table and if a conversation goes that way, one announces one’s departure…

Huh…it seems like I’ve already said this.

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

*Catholic Bibles can’t be trusted because they deliberately distort the meaning of the texts to fit Catholic doctrine.

I’m curious to know if he knows that Luther inserted the word “alone” into his Bible. “Protestant Bibles can’t be trusted because they deliberately distort the meaning of the texts to fit Protestant doctrine.” But of course, I personally wouldn’t say that. I think putting the question of the Canon of Scripture as Devin Rose says in “Navigating The Tiber” is a good start to handle this accusation and to mention that Luther took out books from the Bible and tried to even taken out books from the New Testament! Book of Revelation said not to take words from that prophecy and Luther tried to do that. Hope this helps. God bless.