My financial obligation

  • Thread starter Thread starter StCsDavid
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
And the fourth point: There appears to be a feeling that somehow the average Catholic in the pew should not have to pay for this.

Would that it were not so. However, Paul seems to speak to us about the Body of Christ; that what one does impacts all the others.

What the abusive priests did is impacting the victims the most; it is impacting us in a very minor way in comparison.

Do we have a duty to our brothers and sisters in Christ who have been vicitimized? I say we do. I say that the only way most of us have of doing anything about this is opening our check books. And given the tremendous harm that has been done, that is pretty insignificant in my book. Attorneys? See my other posts. Justice? Walk a mile in one of the victims shoes.

Fair? Who told you life was going to be fair? Let me let you in on a little clue: they lied to you. So get over it.
And I say this having a close, non Catholic friend whom I found out a few months ago was abused by a Catholic priest years ago.

It is easy to sit and pontificate when you don’t know any of the players. When it starts getting a little closer to home, the so-called 20-20 vision seems to shift. Just a tad.

Paying the light bills for the local parish directly? Why? So we can avoid dealing with the injustice that has been done to the victims?

The insurance companies will most likely bear a good part of the burden. What they don’t, the parishoners in this Archdioces are going to have to pick up.

St Cecelia’s too.
 
vern humphrey:
How can the same dollars do two things? If the money is going to pay the judgement, how can it be used for parish purposes?
Click to expand...
And what makes you think that bringing some form of justice to the victims is not a puropose of your parish? Or do you not accept that we are all members of the Body of Christ; and that what we do for the least of these, we do for Christ?
 
Perhaps the duty to compensate victims of abuse does and inevitably must fall upon ordinary parishioners.

In the end, all civil monetary settlements are simply an income transfer from one group of people to a successful claimant.

Perfect justice is not, of course, possible in this life. A child who is abused by a step-parent over the course of many years may ultimately expect to see the wrongdoer criminally prosecuted, yet have no chance at monetary compensation because the wrongdoer has no assets.
 
40.png
JimG:
Perhaps the duty to compensate victims of abuse does and inevitably must fall upon ordinary parishioners.

In the end, all civil monetary settlements are simply an income transfer from one group of people to a successful claimant.

Perfect justice is not, of course, possible in this life. A child who is abused by a step-parent over the course of many years may ultimately expect to see the wrongdoer criminally prosecuted, yet have no chance at monetary compensation because the wrongdoer has no assets.
Click to expand...
An excellent point. Much like the victims of violent crime here receive no compensation from the criminal in jail even though a suit has been brought. However, the Church does have assets and we will have to pay these suits. It seems somewhat futile though. Other than the attorney and psychiatrist, what will the money accomplish? But that is not for us to worry about I think.
 
40.png
otm:
And what makes you think that bringing some form of justice to the victims is not a puropose of your parish? Or do you not accept that we are all members of the Body of Christ; and that what we do for the least of these, we do for Christ?
Click to expand...
Justice? Justice? I do not believe I can bring justice to an abuse victim, reassure, offer hope to him, restore his faith and self esteem, by giving him money? Money? Money is justice? That is more absurd than the coverup in the first place. Let’s leave justice out of it, since the money will do very little for justice.
 
Wow! I really didn’t mean to spark such a firestorm. My desire is not to quit supporting my parish, but rather support it in a way that the services it provides aren’t taken away by this litigation.

What’s painfully ironic is that in the end the innocent victims of this abuse will be compensated by the innocent parishoners. The archdiocese may be culpable on paper, but it will be the folks in the pew; the people supported by Catholic charities; the kids in the Catholic schools, etc., that feel the scurging at the pillar. I don’t believe that is what the victims really wanted. How is justice served when only the innocent are made to pay?

As one priest in our diocese put so figuratively well…“we are more than willing to give them one of our kidneys, but we can’t give them both.”
 
40.png
StCsDavid:
Wow! I really didn’t mean to spark such a firestorm. My desire is not to quit supporting my parish, but rather support it in a way that the services it provides aren’t taken away by this litigation.

What’s painfully ironic is that in the end the innocent victims of this abuse will be compensated by the innocent parishoners. The archdiocese may be culpable on paper, but it will be the folks in the pew; the people supported by Catholic charities; the kids in the Catholic schools, etc., that feel the scurging at the pillar. I don’t believe that is what the victims really wanted. How is justice served when only the innocent are made to pay?

As one priest in our diocese put so figuratively well…“we are more than willing to give them one of our kidneys, but we can’t give them both.”
Click to expand...
Fine, but what would you propose instead? Any ideas?
 
OTM,
it is irrelevent that the Bishops or anyone else heard from some psychiatirsts that some or all could be cured. The sexual sins on the young by the Priests are about as sinful as one can be and every priest who sexually offended agianst the very young at say any level that involved oral or anal/vaginal sex should have been cast out of the Church. There are no EXCUSES, such grevious sins cannot be tolerated fromt he viewpoint of peole re-offending.

Hey, if they had sent all the offenders off to monasteries or places where it was impossible for the the young to be offended against then I could possible accept the excuse that they hoped in a cure and for the evil to return to good.

However no such thing was done. All those Bishops and cardinals who covered these evil doers should have been shown the door.
 
40.png
JimG:
Perhaps the duty to compensate victims of abuse does and inevitably must fall upon ordinary parishioners.
Click to expand...
Why? How am I responsible for what someone else does – especially since if that person (the bishop) had asked my advice I would have told him in the strongest terms not to do what he did?

And how are children in Catholic schools – who will find their education budget cut or dried up – responsible?
40.png
JimG:
In the end, all civil monetary settlements are simply an income transfer from one group of people to a successful claimant.
Click to expand...
With a huge slice going to the lawyers.
40.png
JimG:
Perfect justice is not, of course, possible in this life. A child who is abused by a step-parent over the course of many years may ultimately expect to see the wrongdoer criminally prosecuted, yet have no chance at monetary compensation because the wrongdoer has no assets.
Click to expand...
If I, who had nothing to do with the crime – and the children in Catholic schools – are responsible for “compensating” one victim why aren’t we responsible for compensating all?
 
vern humphrey:
Why? How am I responsible for what someone else does – especially since if that person (the bishop) had asked my advice I would have told him in the strongest terms not to do what he did?

And how are children in Catholic schools – who will find their education budget cut or dried up – responsible?

With a huge slice going to the lawyers.

If I, who had nothing to do with the crime – and the children in Catholic schools – are responsible for “compensating” one victim why aren’t we responsible for compensating all?
Click to expand...
The children in Catholic schools did not commit the crime. Either did you or I. But again in sickness or in health, for richer or pooer…We are all part of the Body of Christ. If someone in the Church preaches a heresy, then we are all responsible for correcting the error and preaching the truth. If someone desecrates the Altar, Host or tabernacle, we are all responsible to correct the action and treat it with reverence in extremis.
If my husband (just an example) gets drunk and runs over someone in the car, my whole family would have to pay the price. The same thing with this abuse case. Some members of the family abused some people. Therefore, we must all feel the effect and make the “justice” available. This is what families do. Families do not operate as every man for himself. And those who refuse to shoulder the hardships the Church has incurred by the actions of a few are operating as every man for himself. This is no different than the rise in Lutheranism. Because there was some corruption on some levels of the Church, it was every man for himself. Off they sped to found their own religion, rejecting the entire Body of Christ on the way, divorcing, if you will, the Church. The Church is a family, it will always operate as a family. Think in terms of family. If your son injures the neighbor, and the neighbor sues, does your daughter also do without while paying the bill? Can anyone really come out of the abuse scandal unscathed?
 
vern humphrey:
Why? How am I responsible for what someone else does – especially since if that person (the bishop) had asked my advice I would have told him in the strongest terms not to do what he did?

?
Click to expand...
Becuase we are priveleged to members of the One True Church-the Church founded by Jesus Christ, We CAN NOT walk away from this problem. Represenatative of OUR Church harmed people. We cant walk away from the victims either,
 
40.png
estesbob:
Becuase we are priveleged to members of the One True Church-the Church founded by Jesus Christ, We CAN NOT walk away from this problem. Represenatative of OUR Church harmed people. We cant walk away from the victims either,
Click to expand...
How am I “walking away from the problem” when I take measures to ensure the work of the Church goes on?

I have a dollar – just one dollar. Now I can give that to a soup kitchen that feeds the down and out, a catholic school so it can keep its doors open, or to a lawyer. Tell me where I should send my dollar.
 
vern humphrey:
How am I “walking away from the problem” when I take measures to ensure the work of the Church goes on?

I have a dollar – just one dollar. Now I can give that to a soup kitchen that feeds the down and out, a catholic school so it can keep its doors open, or to a lawyer. Tell me where I should send my dollar.
Click to expand...
You give it to the Church and let them spend it where it is needed most.
 
vern humphrey:
How am I “walking away from the problem” when I take measures to ensure the work of the Church goes on?

I have a dollar – just one dollar. Now I can give that to a soup kitchen that feeds the down and out, a catholic school so it can keep its doors open, or to a lawyer. Tell me where I should send my dollar.
Click to expand...
Vern, put your dollar where you have always put it. In the basket. Remember St. Teresa of Avila? All things pass. God alone remains.
 
40.png
katewithak:
Vern, put your dollar where you have always put it. In the basket. Remember St. Teresa of Avila? All things pass. God alone remains.
Click to expand...
Not if there’s a lawyer’s hand in the basket. I’ll feed the hungry and educate the children, not enrich the lawyers.
 
40.png
katewithak:
An excellent point. Much like the victims of violent crime here receive no compensation from the criminal in jail even though a suit has been brought. However, the Church does have assets and we will have to pay these suits. It seems somewhat futile though. Other than the attorney and psychiatrist, what will the money accomplish? But that is not for us to worry about I think.
Click to expand...
Given the load vicitms have to cary, and the depth of the psychological harm it very often brings, it may provide some compensation monitarily that they would have been able to earn, but did not due to the harm.

We often think that we can parcel out problems and store them in a nice little niche, where we can take them down from and review periodically, and then put them back in that niche and they have no further impact in our lives. But life doesn’t work that way, and very often serious harm - sexual abuse, or some tragic event, spills over into other areas of our life.

Some victims were harmed more psychologically than others. Some have suffered greatly. Some of that suffering - or much of it - has spilled over into their work life, leaving them with career damage, or no career at all, when they would have been capable of one had the abuse not occured.

So asuming that money damages are rather meaningless in relationship to the abuse is not necessarily correct. It may go at least to repair damage they received monitarily.
 
40.png
katewithak:
Justice? Justice? I do not believe I can bring justice to an abuse victim, reassure, offer hope to him, restore his faith and self esteem, by giving him money? Money? Money is justice? That is more absurd than the coverup in the first place. Let’s leave justice out of it, since the money will do very little for justice.
Click to expand...
actually, see my post converning money damages - it often will work to do some justice interms of lost wages/lost opportunity. I would further point out that it is not complete justice; however, it is how our legal system works, and while it is not complete justice, it does act as partial justice.
 
40.png
StCsDavid:
Wow! I really didn’t mean to spark such a firestorm. My desire is not to quit supporting my parish, but rather support it in a way that the services it provides aren’t taken away by this litigation.

What’s painfully ironic is that in the end the innocent victims of this abuse will be compensated by the innocent parishoners. The archdiocese may be culpable on paper, but it will be the folks in the pew; the people supported by Catholic charities; the kids in the Catholic schools, etc., that feel the scurging at the pillar. I don’t believe that is what the victims really wanted. How is justice served when only the innocent are made to pay?

As one priest in our diocese put so figuratively well…“we are more than willing to give them one of our kidneys, but we can’t give them both.”
Click to expand...
but that is how the entire justice system works.

If a corporation gets sued, and you have an IRA or retirement program that is funded by stock, and part of that is stock of that company, you, the stockholder, are going to pay; and in order to pay that as the stockholder, you, through the company, are going to charge more to your clients or customers.

If your neighbor drives recklessly and injures someone, and you both have the same insurance company, your rates as well as his are going to go up to pay for that damage.

It is in relatively rare circumstances that a money judgement from a lawsuit is paid by an individual.

And a further point; had there been no large dollar lawsuits to get the attention of the bishops nationwide concerning theis issue, do you think that the bishops would have changed their behavior in forgiving the abuser of his sin, and then moving him to another parish? Some bishops would stop. Others?
 
Tim Hayes:
OTM,
it is irrelevent that the Bishops or anyone else heard from some psychiatirsts that some or all could be cured. The sexual sins on the young by the Priests are about as sinful as one can be and every priest who sexually offended agianst the very young at say any level that involved oral or anal/vaginal sex should have been cast out of the Church. There are no EXCUSES, such grevious sins cannot be tolerated fromt he viewpoint of peole re-offending.

Hey, if they had sent all the offenders off to monasteries or places where it was impossible for the the young to be offended against then I could possible accept the excuse that they hoped in a cure and for the evil to return to good.

However no such thing was done. All those Bishops and cardinals who covered these evil doers should have been shown the door.
Click to expand...
I agree that there are no excuses, but there are reasons. The bishops used reasoned judgement to get the priests to the cure they (the bishops) were told could be achieved. The reasoned judgement relied on professionals in an area the bidhops did not have professional experience in.

The professionals were wrong. But to say that the bishops were wrong to rely on their advice is to Monday morning quarterback the issue.

You don’t ask for further advice on the same issue when you find the professional was wrong, and in this issue, that was a seriously long piece of time before it was discovered.

we are all sinners; essentially what you are saying is that no one who commits a sin can be forgiven and start over. Anyone who commits adultery is automatically divorced. Anyone who commits a theft from an employer is never again allowed to be employed.

Further, you seem to miss the issue of mercy. Taking them out of the priesthood now is seen as necessary; in 1975 the bishops collectively did not have enough information to make that decision. But even now they are not kicked out of the Church.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top