My first encounter with a Jehovah's witness

[traviche]

Dear dj dave.

Thank you for your wonderful links.

After reading so many well-written posts in this forum by so many people, with some of the posts hundreds of words long, it is truly refreshing to see someone who can understand that I don’t *want *to read long, well thought out and researched posts.

What I actually want is a bunch of links (some of which look like they have been deleted long ago) with just some sort of vague reference to reaching someone…

So thank you, ever so much, for taking the time to give me what I really wanted.

Kindest regards,
TC

 

[T_More]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

…pray that we reach you soon.

I agree, so that the JW’s can be taught truth instead of spreading untruths.

Welcome, traviche!

 

[Timothias]

Take them thorugh a little hisotry and inform them that the Church as one of the planks when deciding what was to be a part of the bible required that the books amongst other things had to conform to the faith of the Church. IN other words in the 300;s when they selected the bible ‘nominations’ much of scripture as taught by the Church was decided.

So for eg. when we talk about the Eucharist in the Gospel of John, the interpretation and meaning of John was required to be consistent with the ‘Faith’ for it to achieve biblical status. If John was interpretated in the modern protestant/Jehovas witness fashion it would never have been allowed in the bible becasue it would have refuted the faith of the Church.

Use logic on the JW’s. You may have to do a little study but its worth it. I remember once taking a new aquaintenace and his offsider (JW’s) to a bible college nearby and using the books quoted in their trinity booklet that referred to early Christians and was able to show clearly how their trinity booklet was lying about what early christians such as Turtullian and the like believed. He was stunned but more importantly the young lady who was new to the Jw’s was absolutely gob smacked that she had been blatantly lied to about the early christain belief and could see for her own self with out me having to interpret at all that the early Christians did indeed have a trinitarian belief.

Alwasy look upon it as a challenge and then sometimes a little wickedly as entertainment, otherwise it gets extremely frustrating dealing with the willing blind.

 

[Rboyce8960]

This may sound wrong to some, but I keep a supply of my own tracts on hand. When they come calling, I politely offer to take one from them -if they’ll take one from me- and tell them they should only come back when/if they’ve truly read it and are able to discuss it. I’ve not had any at my door in a long, long time.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

This may sound wrong to some, but I keep a supply of my own tracts on hand. When they come calling, I politely offer to take one from them -if they’ll take one from me- and tell them they should only come back when/if they’ve truly read it and are able to discuss it. I’ve not had any at my door in a long, long time.

this is why they have not come back to your door in a long long time! JWs are NOT ALLOWED to take any of your literature and most especially not allowed to read it! On a rare occasion one may take your tract only to throw it away out of your sight, but this is rare. They always work in pairs and with a car group, and their partner or others in the group are under obligation to report the one taking your literature as misconduct to the elders and this one could possibly be excommunicated (disfellowshipped) for doing it.

 

[Rboyce8960]

Well, that explains why it worked like a charm-LOL. I live near a kingdom hall and it just got to be too much- like a constant weekend flow to the door. And, as you said, always in a group that would separate into smaller groups to scour the street!

 

[Waiting]

I think all the JWs that come to our doors say that they are former Catholics. They want us to think that they are the enlightened ones and we are still in the dark ages. When one came to my door, she started in with the usual Bible quotes and arguments against the Catholic Church. I told her that history proves that Jesus started the Catholic Church, and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Then I told her that if she could get me past that, I would listen to her. She left.

 

[Rboyce8960]

It is really kind of sad - that it has to be this way, I mean, but they really leave us so little option otherwise. They get an “A” for persistence at least.

 

[JIMBARRY1946]

I thought Jehovah’s Winesses had given up the old “He only listens if you call Him Jehovah” when it was proven Jehovah was a mistranslation. He NEVER WAS called Jehovah. Hit them with the multitude of changes in the Absolutely True Beliefs over the years. They have been so inconsistant it’s laughable.

 

[Adonia]

I had to tell her that I had to leave for her to stop talking. I listened for awhile b/c I didn’t really have anything else to do, and I hoped maybe I, could teach her something. I did tell her to consider coming back to the Church. She didn’t look to happy about that, but whatever, maybe it will sink in later. I think that we should use these opportunites to evangelize them if possible. They might not listen now, but we plant seeds that way, that Christ will water later.

Lol, that story with the woman and the baby was funny

Anyways, I’m sure she had the best intentions, but there was absolutley no way I would stop being a Catholic. No way. :dts:

Thanks for responding everyone. God Bless.

My stock answer to the JW is this: You are trying to tell me that for some 1832 years God would allow a lie to be allowed to exist as regards the RCC until your guy suddenly came along and "dicovered " the “truth”? Please! Don’t insult my intelligence Madame or Sir. Look, you can believe what you want to belive, but I’m sticking with the church that has been in business since day one. Have you ever thought that it is your church that has the false prophet? God bless and have a wonderful day. At that point they usually realize that with me their hopes of conversion are slim and none.

 

[RazzsMom]

this is why they have not come back to your door in a long long time! JWs are NOT ALLOWED to take any of your literature and most especially not allowed to read it! On a rare occasion one may take your tract only to throw it away out of your sight, but this is rare. They always work in pairs and with a car group, and their partner or others in the group are under obligation to report the one taking your literature as misconduct to the elders and this one could possibly be excommunicated (disfellowshipped) for doing it.

That was the same idea I had posted, but I did not know the JW were not allowed to take my tracts. I only know they acted as if I were handing them the lighted end of a torch and withdrew, stuttering “No thanks.” And as the previous poster said, none of them ever returned to my house.

 

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]QUOTE=Flame4;6898716]I

She talked about how we must call God by the right name: Jehovah.

My rebutal: Names are symbols. If we say the word “house”, the word house is not really a house. Its a symbol for a real house. Because we are human and we are limited, we need symbols and names to explain higher meanings. That is why we have so many symbols- things that are tangible for us- in the Church, so we can more easily connect with God.

On the other hand, God is unlimited. The names we come up with are simply for us to have something to call him. It doesn’t mean he has a name. So there is no proper “name” for him. To me, using “God” shows how he is unlimited. [/SIGN]

…and yet you all still pray ‘Hollowed be your name’ Matthew 6:9
also there is this…

What do you think Jesus was saying at:

*(John 17:6) “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word.
(John 17:26) And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in **order that the love with which you loved me may be in them *and I in union with them.”

More?
(Psalm 91:14) Because on me he has set his affection, I shall also provide him with escape. I shall protect him because he has come to know my name.
(Psalm 9:10) And those knowing your name will trust in you, For you will certainly not leave those looking for you, O Jehovah.
(Psalm 74:10) How long, O God, will the adversary keep reproaching? Will the enemy keep treating your name with disrespect forever?
(Psalm 74:18) Remember this: The enemy himself has reproached, O Jehovah, And a senseless people have treated your name with disrespect.
(Isaiah 52:5) “And now, what interest do I have here?” is the utterance of Jehovah. “For my people were taken for nothing. The very ones ruling over them kept howling,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “and constantly, all day long, my name was being treated with disrespect.
(Proverbs 18:10) The name of Jehovah is a strong tower. Into it the righteous runs and is given protection.(
Jeremiah 16:21) “Therefore here I am causing them to know; at this one time I shall cause them to know my hand and my mightiness, and they will have to know that my name is Jehovah.”
(Psalm 83:18) That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
(Jeremiah 33:2) “This is what Jehovah the Maker of [earth] has said, Jehovah the Former of it to establish it firmly, Jehovah being his name,

(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

It is true no one knows the correct pronounciation of HIS Name but, Jehovah is the most well accepted version of the Hebrew YHWH…we won’t know the true pronouncation until he reveals it…we also don’t know the true pronounciations of ANY hebrew names… but, we don’t shy away from using them.

“*Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree.” *(Acts 15:14, 15)

(Jeremiah 23:26-27) 26* How long will it exist in the heart of the prophets who are prophesying the falsehood and who are prophets of the trickiness of their own heart? 27 They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Ba′al. *

Continued…

 

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]QUOTE=Flame4;6898716]I

She talked about how we must call God by the right name: Jehovah.

My rebutal: Names are symbols. If we say the word “house”, the word house is not really a house. Its a symbol for a real house. Because we are human and we are limited, we need symbols and names to explain higher meanings. That is why we have so many symbols- things that are tangible for us- in the Church, so we can more easily connect with God.

On the other hand, God is unlimited. The names we come up with are simply for us to have something to call him. It doesn’t mean he has a name. So there is no proper “name” for him. To me, using “God” shows how he is unlimited. [/SIGN]

…and yet you all still pray ‘Hollowed be your name’ Matthew 6:9
also there is this…

*** Divine Name Brochure

(1984) God’s Name—Its Meaning and Pronunciation ***

Different scholars have different ideas about how the name YHWH was originally pronounced.
In The Mysterious Name of Y.H.W.H., page 74, Dr. M. Reisel said that the “vocalisation of the Tetragrammaton must originally have been YeHūàH or YaHūàH.”
Canon D. D. Williams of Cambridge held that the “evidence indicates, nay almost proves, that Jāhwéh was not the true pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton . . . The Name itself was probably JĀHÔH.”—Zeitschrift für die alttestamentliche Wissenschaft (Periodical for Old Testament Knowledge), 1936, Volume 54, page 269.
In the glossary of the French Revised Segond Version, page 9, the following comment is made: “The pronunciation Yahvé used in some recent translations is based on a few ancient witnesses, but they are not conclusive. If one takes into account personal names that include the divine name, such as the Hebrew name of the prophet Elijah (Eliyahou) the pronunciation might just as well be Yaho or Yahou.”
In 1749 the German Bible scholar Teller told of some different pronunciations of God’s name he had read: “Diodorus from Sicily, Macrobius, Clemens Alexandrinus, Saint Jerome and Origenes wrote Jao; the Samaritans, Epiphanius, Theodoretus, Jahe, or Jave; Ludwig Cappel reads Javoh; Drusius, Jahve; Hottinger, Jehva; Mercerus, Jehovah; Castellio, Jovah; and le Clerc, Jawoh, or Javoh.”
Thus it is evident that the original pronunciation of God’s name is no longer known. Nor is it really important. If it were, then God himself would have made sure that it was preserved for us to use. The important thing is to use God’s name according to its conventional pronunciation in our own language.

Forms of the divine name in different languages, indicating international acceptance of the form Jehovah
Awabakal - Yehóa
Bugotu - Jihova
Cantonese - Yehwowah
Danish - Jehova
Dutch - Jehovah
Efik - Jehovah
English - Jehovah
Fijian - Jiova
Finnish - Jehova
French - Jéhovah
Futuna - Ihova
German - Jehova
Hungarian - Jehova
Igbo - Jehova
Italian - Geova
Japanese - Ehoba
Maori - Ihowa
Motu - Iehova
Mwala-Malu - Jihova
Narrinyeri - Jehovah
Nembe - Jihova
Petats - Jihouva
Polish - Jehowa
Portuguese - Jeová
Romanian - Iehova
Samoan - Ieova
Sotho - Jehova
Spanish - Jehová
Swahili - Yehova
Swedish - Jehova
Tahitian - Iehova
Tagalog - Jehova
Tongan - Jihova
Venda - Yehova
Xhosa - uYehova
Yoruba - Jehofah
Zulu - uJehova
[Box on page 11]
“Jehovah” has become widely known as the name of God even in non-Biblical contexts.

Franz Schubert composed the music for the lyric entitled “The Almightiness,” written by Johann Ladislav Pyrker, in which the name Jehovah appears twice. It is also used at the end of the last scene of Verdi’s opera “Nabucco.”
Additionally, French composer Arthur Honegger’s oratorio “King David” gives prominence to the name Jehovah, and renowned French author Victor Hugo used it in over 30 of his works. Both he and Lamartine wrote poems entitled “Jehovah.”
In the book Deutsche Taler (The German Taler), published in 1967 by Germany’s Federal Bank, there is a picture of what is one of the oldest coins bearing the name “Jehovah,” a 1634 Reichstaler from the Duchy of Silesia. Regarding the picture on the coin’s reverse side, it says: “Under the radiant name JEHOVAH, rising up out of the midst of clouds, is a crowned shield with the Silesian coat of arms.”
In a museum in Rudolstadt, East Germany, you can see on the collar of the suit of armor once worn by Gustavus II Adolph, a 17th-century king of Sweden, the name JEHOVAH in capital letters.
Thus, for centuries the form Jehovah has been the internationally recognized way to pronounce God’s name, and people who hear it instantly recognize who is being spoken about. As Professor Oehler said, “This name has now become more naturalized in our vocabulary, and cannot be supplanted.”—Theologie des Alten Testaments (Theology of the Old Testament).

Anyway, just had to speak up for Jehovah.

 

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]QUOTE=Adonia;6928950]My stock answer to the JW is this: You are trying to tell me that for some 1832 years God would allow a lie to be allowed to exist as regards the RCC until your guy suddenly came along and "dicovered " the “truth”? Please! Don’t insult my intelligence Madame or Sir. Look, you can believe what you want to belive, but I’m sticking with the church that has been in business since day one. Have you ever thought that it is your church that has the false prophet? God bless and have a wonderful day. At that point they usually realize that with me their hopes of conversion are slim and none.[/SIGN]

…“been in business” is right …much like the rest of false religion…

(Revelation 18:11-13) 11 “*Also, the traveling merchants of the earth are weeping and mourning over her, because there is no one to buy their full stock anymore, 12 a full stock of gold and silver and precious stone and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet; and everything in scented wood and every sort of ivory object and every sort of object out of most precious wood and of copper and of iron and of marble; 13 also cinnamon and Indian spice and incense and perfumed oil and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and horses and coaches and slaves and human souls. *

(Revelation 18:15-17) 15 “The traveling merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of [their] fear of her torment and will weep and mourn, 16 saying, ‘Too bad, too bad—the great city, clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet, and richly adorned with gold ornament and precious stone and pearl, 17 because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!’. . .

(Revelation 18:22-24) . . .And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp and of musicians and of flutists and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again, and no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again, 23 and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled. 24 Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth" This by the way is not talking about ROME…it says “All” those slaughtered on the earth–all the way back to Able–because of a ‘religios’ ceremony…Consider:
After an indefinite period of time, Abel made an offering to Jehovah God. Cain did likewise. Each brought of what he had: Abel, of the firstlings of his flocks; Cain, of his produce. (Ge 4:3,*4) They both had belief in God. They undoubtedly learned of Him from their parents and must have known why they all were outside the garden of Eden and denied entry to it. Their offerings indicated a recognition of their alienated state and of their desire for God’s favor.

BTW your comment above leads me to wonder WHO this is talking about…

(Daniel 12:3-4) 3*“And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever. 4 “And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”

How could you have had the truth all along if the ‘Book’ was sealed up until the “time of the end”? See 2 Tim 3:1-5 (Actually, the understanding of the Bible was ‘sealed up’, not the Book itself.

 

[Cashue]

I don’t know if this is in the right palce, but anyways…

I had my first encounter with a Jehovah’s witness who attempted to covert me I suppose. I was sitting down and she was just standing there so I moved over, since she was elderly. She started talking about the Bible and stuff and I guessed her religion.

She talked about how we must call God by the right name: Jehovah.

My rebutal: Names are symbols. If we say the word “house”, the word house is not really a house. Its a symbol for a real house. Because we are human and we are limited, we need symbols and names to explain higher meanings. That is why we have so many symbols- things that are tangible for us- in the Church, so we can more easily connect with God.

On the other hand, God is unlimited. The names we come up with are simply for us to have something to call him. It doesn’t mean he has a name. So there is no proper “name” for him. To me, using “God” shows how he is unlimited.

Anyways, thats what I said, more or less. Thats what came to my head. At first I was annoyed with her, but I was actually quite glad by the end. I enjoy discussing religion with other people. It helps **me ** learn more. I just thought I would share.

You gave an excellent answer - the bible clearly says again and again that God doesn’t care about his name and that it is not important.

I think you did well in rebutting the false claim that God has a personal name when we know that is a lie - God does not HAVE a name and even if he did he would obviously not want us to mention it aloud (any reference to declaring his “name” is in fact speaking about speaking it in silence in our hearts and only saying “GOD”).

Your research on the subject will show you that in the original hebrew the word they tranlsate as YAHWEH (or Jehovah) is written in the EXACT SAME LETTERS as the hebrew word “GOD” (Hebrew EL) so when you looked at it on the page it looked the same prooving that no personal name exists in relation to God.

We could call him ‘potatoe’ HE knows who we are talking about. Names mean nothing. Espesially to the Almighty.

Excellent work.

God bless.

 

[T_More]

[SIGN]QUOTE=Adonia;6928950]My stock answer to the JW is this: You are trying to tell me that for some 1832 years God would allow a lie to be allowed to exist as regards the RCC until your guy suddenly came along and "dicovered " the “truth”? Please! Don’t insult my intelligence Madame or Sir. Look, you can believe what you want to belive, but I’m sticking with the church that has been in business since day one. Have you ever thought that it is your church that has the false prophet? God bless and have a wonderful day. At that point they usually realize that with me their hopes of conversion are slim and none.

[/SIGN]

…“been in business” is right …much like the rest of false religion…

Careful, “dj”. Are you sure you want to go there? You show up every once in a while on this site, try to “shock and awe” with cut and pasting of WTBS comments and then you say this?

 

[Padrej]

You gave an excellent answer - the bible clearly says again and again that God doesn’t care about his name and that it is not important.

I think you did well in rebutting the false claim that God has a personal name when we know that is a lie - God does not HAVE a name and even if he did he would obviously not want us to mention it aloud (any reference to declaring his “name” is in fact speaking about speaking it in silence in our hearts and only saying “GOD”).

Your research on the subject will show you that in the original hebrew the word they tranlsate as YAHWEH (or Jehovah) is written in the EXACT SAME LETTERS as the hebrew word “GOD” (Hebrew EL) so when you looked at it on the page it looked the same prooving that no personal name exists in relation to God.

We could call him ‘potatoe’ HE knows who we are talking about. Names mean nothing. Espesially to the Almighty.

Excellent work.

God bless.

Funny NO Jehovah’s Witness has EVER given the bit of history as to WHY there are no vowels in the Tetragrammaton. It is because the ancient Hebrews thought that to name God was (for lack of better words) putting him in a box or using man’s standards. They would ONLY describe the **attributes of God **and even today spell “God” without the vowel as a sign of respect (for example G_D). Only the high priest according to the Mishna and Talmud was allowed to know and utter God’s full name and then only at certain times.

Please ANY Jehovah’s witness explain this verse:
Exodus 34:14
(for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),
Come on DJ Dave lets hear it.

 

[Padrej]

this is why they have not come back to your door in a long long time! JWs are NOT ALLOWED to take any of your literature and most especially not allowed to read it! On a rare occasion one may take your tract only to throw it away out of your sight, but this is rare. They always work in pairs and with a car group, and their partner or others in the group are under obligation to report the one taking your literature as misconduct to the elders and this one could possibly be excommunicated (disfellowshipped) for doing it.

Correct me if I am wrong but don’t cults do the same? I mean don’t cults forbid their members from excepting things which would expose them?

 

[JoDee]

Interesting story. I was a JW for 30 years. We actually went to JW school and practiced scenerios like the one you described, approaching someone and striking up a conversation. I think it is very good to converse with a JW IF you are strong in your faith and biblical truths. Remember they are trained to debate, confuse and convert. They one response was correct that they take rebuffs as proof they are on the right road, and I have also in my past had doors opened by naked or nearly naked people-it made good stories to share in our “service meetings”. However I am proof that is is possible to “drive chinks in their armor”. You can plant doubts that may grow over time and most importantly ALWAYS pray for any JW you know or meet. Prayer does help!

 

[Padrej]

Interesting story. I was a JW for 30 years. We actually went to JW school and practiced scenerios like the one you described, approaching someone and striking up a conversation. I think it is very good to converse with a JW IF you are strong in your faith and biblical truths. Remember they are trained to debate, confuse and convert. They one response was correct that they take rebuffs as proof they are on the right road, and I have also in my past had doors opened by naked or nearly naked people-it made good stories to share in our “service meetings”. However I am proof that is is possible to “drive chinks in their armor”. You can plant doubts that may grow over time and most importantly ALWAYS pray for any JW you know or meet. Prayer does help!

I find the highlighted line of great interest. Can you elaborate more on that? I have always heard such but many former JWs that I have run across are reluctant to speak to this.