My first missionary meeting

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I have some Mormon missionaries coming back over again Saturday morning. I love witnessing to them.

I can never understand how they refuse to accept anything outside their sect. But then, I went to Baptist churches for 26 years so I can see how we can all make mistakes? I left the Baptist sect/cult, so there is hope for them to leave their sect/cult too.👍
 
“…wherefore, as they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a SKIN OF BLACKNESS to come upon them.”
(Book of Mormon, page 61, 2 Nephi 5, verse 21)

“And the skins of the Lamanites were DARK, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which WAS A CURSE upon them because of their transgression…” (Book of Mormon, page 201, Alma 3, verse 6)

“…for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a DARK, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us,…” (Book of Mormon, page 468, Mormon 5, verse 15)

The Book of Mormon, however, predicts that the Indians will repent of their sins and become white:

“…and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a WHITE AND DELIGHTSOME PEOPLE.”
(Book of Mormon, page 102, 2 Nephi 30, verse 6. (The word “WHITE” was changed to “PURE” in later editions of the Book of Mormon))

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

My first encounter with Utah LDS Missionaries, one was black so I brought up the Lamanites skin color changing to white after they got saved.

Next, I brougt up the claim that they believe in the existence of many Gods, they answered by reflex that they only worship the god of this world, so I had them read II Cor 4:4 out loud. They left crying.
 
Very interesting account of your encounter. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I was intrigued by the Linus reference: it was a new one on me and honestly have no idea what she was talking about. As far as I can see, the only reference to “Linus” in the NT is here:
2Ti 4:21 -
Do your best to come before winter. Eubu’lus sends greetings to you, as do Pudens and Linus and Claudia and all the brethren
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According to McKenzie’s Dictionary of the Bible, the ECFs taught this Linus was indeed the successor to Peter, but as far as all that apostacy stuff about him, she must be getting it from somewhere else other than the Scriptures.
 
Yeah, like I said, I’ve only heard about that from LDS sources, and I haven’t seen documentation.
 
Brad Haas,

Very interesting account. It is similar to my experiences with LDS missionaries too. You tell the story well.

I found her reference to the apostacy and the Protestant Reformation eerily familiar. Years ago my LDS friends would distance themselves from anything Protestant going so far as saying, “we are not Protestants, they are just splits off of YOUR church.” Now they are not saying that. I heard nearly the identical teaching from my best friend recently, (LDS). She said almost the same exact words that your missionary did about the Protestants, “knowing an apostacy had taken place and tried to fix it but the time wasn’t right.”

I wonder if this is a new tactic for converting Catholics who are leaning towards Protestantism. A sort of “well the Catholics are wrong and Protestants almost got it right but LDS is the real restoration.”

Your observations on “your answer vs.The Answer” were top notch. I look forward to reading more of your writing.
 
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LittleDeb:
I wonder if this is a new tactic for converting Catholics who are leaning towards Protestantism. A sort of “well the Catholics are wrong and Protestants almost got it right but LDS is the real restoration.”
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Personally, I think it is part of their overall effort in recent years to try to re-image themselves as more “Christian.” I live in a heavily Mormon area and have noticed this trend with some interest. One thing that is really noticible is on the outside of all their church buildings they’ve always had the sign " The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." On the newer buildings they have redesigned the logo to read " The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints."
 
Deb - thank you. I hope to keep writing stuff that people will enjoy.

Fidelis - I’ve read someone who wondered if that might border on taking the Lord’s name in vain. I wouldn’t go that far, but way back in the day, I had a notebook in which I stored articles and wrote stuff down related to apologetics. I put the Vactican symbol on the front, along with a colophon:
THE CHURCH OF
JESUS CHRIST
😃

All: I’ve written another article, updating the story: The next missionary meetings . Enjoy.
 
HI Brad,
I enjoyed your newest write-up. I understand your frustration with them when they ask you to “pray that the BOM is true.” I have two different replies when they ask. I use either or both depending on the particular missionaries.
  1. I say, “ok I’ll pray to find out if the BOM is true if you’ll pray to find out if the telephone book is true.” When they look at me like they are insulted, I add, “If the telephone book is not divinely inspired, no amount of prayer is going to make it so. Is it a waste of your time to pray about the telephone book?”
Some get the point, some don’t.
  1. “So what happens if I tell you I did and got a resounding, ‘NO!’ will that tell you that Satan answered my prayer?”
Both are true for me and both have worked to mellow out aggresive ones. I would never say either to my best friend (LDS), but I have said each to aggressive missionaries.

To the nice missionaries I usually get into discussions about nearly all feelings being subjective. (Most didn’t understand the term until we discussed it.) That usually leads to a discussion on objective Truth. It gets them away from the canned “pray about the church to know if its true,” and onto more useful subjects. I have found it opens the door to being able to ask The Big Question.

Many I have encountered are thirsty for Truth but cannot find a way to compartmentalize their minds to accept Truth while still maintaining their beliefs which they hold so beautiful. Remember in your dealings with LDS that is an emotional religion. Logic is something they reach after emotions. For a Catholic, we get emotional about The Church because of the logic inherent to it.

Christ is found in Natural Law. They look for Him elsewhere and then attempt to define Him based on what they’ve found. For me, it is one of the reasons I have personally liked many LDS I’ve met. They are sincere in their search and will sacrifice much for what they believe to be truth.

Good luck and please keep me posted. I wish you the best with your girlfriend. I don’t envy you your situation.
 
Good page from what I have read so far. (Im commenting as I read)

One question that comes to mind, when they ask a person to pray and read the BoM to see if they get the burning desire, Im interested in how many people actually did read the whole BoM. Knowing the amount of reading the average joe does, I would guess a low percentage.

Next she says:
She said she would indeed pray about it, but that all of that kind of thing is recorded in the Church History and other documents, so we know what those men said, and what the apostles said, and what Smith said.
Im guessing “Church History” is a book? Is it authoritative and can I find it online?
She responded by saying that the apostasy took effect in 100 AD, the year that John the Apostle disappeared. She said those men did their best, but the authority was gone. She told me that there’s evidence in the New Testament that Linus apostatized. Id like to see some substance in backing up this claim. As some have pointed out the Linus thing is clearly unfounded, a red flag indeed.

Thats the end of part 1. Good ending.
Part 2 now.

Ok, so whats up with all this praying for the answer stuff?
Its like thats all there is to the discussion.

As for the write up on the “apologetics cd” keep us posted!
 
Catholic Dude:
Im guessing “Church History” is a book? Is it authoritative and can I find it online?
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It’s a whole bunch of books. Not authoritative, and not available for free online, that I know of.
Id like to see some substance in backing up this claim. As some have pointed out the Linus thing is clearly unfounded, a red flag indeed.
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Yeah. I forgot to mention, I gave them a sheet with the only mention of Linus in scripture (2Ti 4:21) and the only reference to Linus in history that I know of (Irenaeus, Adversus Haereses, Book III, Ch 3 - a good chapter! :D). I haven’t asked them about it.
Ok, so whats up with all this praying for the answer stuff?
Its like thats all there is to the discussion.
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Yeah, but that’s what they keep telling me. They say it even more than I wrote down in the articles.
As for the write up on the “apologetics cd” keep us posted!
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Will do.
 
I just read the thread on Anti-Catholic websites and found this thread interesting in relation to that thread, which I answered. I would say the same here, if you are listening to LDS missionaries with the thought of converting them to Catholicism, or just antagonizing and trying to embarrass them, why are you having them come into your home. Just say no, I have my own religion and I am happy with it Thank You!
Don’t even waste their time unless you are truely interested in studying Mormonism with an open mind and no pre-conceived notions that come from the same hatred for them that the Anti-Catholics spout about us. How can you say they do not really feel the spirit when they read the Book of Mormon, and ask them if they feel the spirit when they read the Phone Book? That is just plain hateful and a great put-down and mockery of their faith in God.
Is this Christianity? Isn’t there a commandment “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”?
It is a good thing to have a cordial debate on the issues of each religion, in a forum where everyone comes to debate, but to outright plan an attack on young boys who are out to sincerely spread God’s word, in my opinion is not very Christian.
If you want to listen to them then listen, if not then politely say no, do not attack them and their beliefs.
Don
 
Don,

There has never been any trap or attack. I just went to their sacrament meeting. They came to me and asked to visit me, and have continued to want to keep visiting me.

Also, I have another commandment: “Go ye therefore and make disciples of all nations.” Jesus didn’t leave the Pharisees in their religious interpretation, even though it satisfied them. He seemed to prefer that they know the Truth. So do I.
 
If you wish to continue inviting them into your home, then do so, but do not expect to convert them. They are there to convert you. Why did you go to Sacrament meeting? You opened the door and invited them in. When you invite them into your home, then you give the impression that you are interested in hearing more about their beliefs. They will listen politely to your beliefs, but unless goaded they will not argue with you. They have no knowledge of Catholicism unless they come from a family who converted from Catholicism. So it is really not a fair debate on their side.
I am just wondering why you want to debate these boys, if you are truely not interested? Why waste your time and theirs?
Don
 
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donbjc:
I just read the thread on Anti-Catholic websites and found this thread interesting in relation to that thread, which I answered. I would say the same here, if you are listening to LDS missionaries with the thought of converting them to Catholicism, or just antagonizing and trying to embarrass them, why are you having them come into your home. Just say no, I have my own religion and I am happy with it Thank You!
Don’t even waste their time unless you are truely interested in studying Mormonism with an open mind and no pre-conceived notions that come from the same hatred for them that the Anti-Catholics spout about us. How can you say they do not really feel the spirit when they read the Book of Mormon, and ask them if they feel the spirit when they read the Phone Book? That is just plain hateful and a great put-down and mockery of their faith in God.
Is this Christianity? Isn’t there a commandment “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”?
It is a good thing to have a cordial debate on the issues of each religion, in a forum where everyone comes to debate, but to outright plan an attack on young boys who are out to sincerely spread God’s word, in my opinion is not very Christian.
If you want to listen to them then listen, if not then politely say no, do not attack them and their beliefs.
Don
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Since I am the one who said the comment about the phone book I would like to respond to your concern. You will notice that I said it is something I say to particularly aggressive missionaries who are not open to dialogue. If you have never met with a missionary, you might not know how many times one or two might say this statement in the course of a conversation.

They come to witness. I give them Truth. They ring my doorbell. I welcome them as weary travelers. Just telling them sorry and closing the door, does them a great disservice. How would you feel if you were searching for Truth and someone who knew it just said, “sorry” and closed the door? I know of so many converts to the Catholic faith because of Catholics who were brave enough and patient enough to share the divinity of Christ with these ernest people.

Please notice my physical location. There are 1 million people in my state. Only 120,000 of us are Catholics. We are the second largest religion in the state. Our state is more than 70% LDS (It might be 80% I can’t remember, I haven’t looked at the numbers in a few years). The presumption by many is that the BOM is “of course its true.” So when they encounter folks who don’t “believe its true” we are told over and over that we just didn’t pray enough. That does nothing to further a useful dialogue. The terms I use are to help them see that their presumption is uncalled for.

If you reread my post, you will notice I said I would never say that to my best friend. I don’t have to. She knows I pray because we pray together. We have tried to find our common ground and we are very close. The OP is searching out Mormonism because someone very close to his heart is LDS. How can it be hate-filled if we truly love these special people?
 
Of course you are right in that context, sorry I misconstrued your meaning. I really just skimmed the whole thread and remembered that particular statement as perhaps being a bit offensive. Taken with the context you meant it in, I agree that you were probably correct in dealing with particularly aggressive missionaries. You are also correct in saying that I have not had the experience of dealing with such. The ones I have met were very unoffensive and polite, but some have been very determined and I have had to tell them that I am not interested in joining their church, but find it interesting to hear what they believe, then I have had to tell them that I have heard everything they have to say and do not need to have them visit me again.
Thanks for explaining your position.
Don
 
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donbjc:
…You are also correct in saying that I have not had the experience of dealing with such. The ones I have met were very unoffensive and polite, but some have been very determined and I have had to tell them that I am not interested in joining their church, but find it interesting to hear what they believe, then I have had to tell them that I have heard everything they have to say and do not need to have them visit me again.
Thanks for explaining your position.
Don
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It is the determined ones who get the baptisms. There has been a shift in the last decade to be more determined. The good news is that in that determination they are encouraged to do more helping and less preaching. I told one missionary of a family I knew who needed food not conversion. The next week he came back and had his companion carrying all of his books in his backpack while the young man had 20 pounds of potatoes in his. They rode their bicycles the whole way. I accepted them and gave them to the family while letting them know it had been an LDS missionary who gave them.

He was from northern California BTW! He was nearly done with his mission and had yet to win a single convert. I remember him well though. We had some very lively conversations. Unoffensive and polite is the general rule but the few aggresive ones are the ones who seem to get the most converts. Those are the ones who can do the most damage. They convert aggressively and then they are gone. The local ward is not up to that level of support and some converts end up leaving, feeling more rejected than before.

I find it so frustrating that the missionary disscussions are an appeal to emotions. They seek those in vulnerable spots emotionally and use that. I, too have sensed the Holy Spirit when reading the BOM. Since it has many parts that are in Scripture it does contain Truth. The aggressive “pray to know its true.” sets up people to interpret a subjective feeling without objective Truth. I find that to be reprehensible. I truly am searching for a good response to those polite missionaries who are only saying it because they truly believe it, not because they were told to. Any ideas would be much appreciated, as long as the OP doesn’t consider it a thread hijack.
 
Don,

I’m going to sacrament meetings, talking to missionaries, holding dialogue with LDS apologists, and so on, because I want to give the religion every possible chance to show me why it’s true. If it is the truth, I’ll believe in it. If it’s not, I have a duty to those who believe in it. And the way I see things, LDS would be remiss in their own duties (whether missionaries or not) if they did not try to help me see why it’s the truth.

BTW, the missionaries with whom I’m meeting are girls. 🙂
 
I’ve been reading about your meetings. The second one espescially struck me. The part where you took out the picture of your girlfriend and told her no one would benefit more than you if the LDS church was true.

I was wondering what specific passages she had you read. I’ve only had one visit from the Mormons and remember it was a specific passage they wanted me to read.

This was something I found odd:
She had a sun, a moon, and a star to represent the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial kingdom. I laughed out loud when I saw them, because on the sun she had drawn a Ridiculously Huge Smiley Face, the moon had a Mostly Content Face, and the star had something like a Mildly Uncomfortable Face. They were great.
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When I read this I pictured a Ouija board with the sun, moon, and stars at the top. When I was a kid I played with it (shame on me, I know). This spirit, I still remember his name, said he was on the star (he said this was purgatory). It gave me chills when I read what you wrote about the kingdoms.
 
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