My girlfriend lied about virginity

[AussieTrish]

God bless, I see what you are saying. I struggled with this way of thinking and have to say that after prayer, reading, consultation and study and came to a much different conclusion although we will probably disagree.

Forgiveness does not obligate us to relationship or trust. In other words, I do not have to prove that I have forgiven you by showing that I trust you, but many people believe it does. This was something that puzzled me for a long time, I was “hung up” on it. I thought if you forgave someone that you had to embrace them fully, but that isn’t true and it is NOT Catholic church teaching.

Ideally, yes that would be great! We should always work towards trust, but if an employee steals from me and apologizes, I do not have to prove I have forgiven them by giving them the keys to the cash register. The original poster can forgive his girlfriend and he should, it is a commandment! But he does not have to prove his forgiveness by trusting her completely. It is okay that he has reservations, that does not impact his forgiveness. Forgiveness is an act of the will, it is not conditional on our emotions or how we feel.

You gave beautiful advice in that it would not be fair for him to marry her and then use this against her, that would be awful. However at this point he just found out about the lies, and she has not begun to build back trust yet, so he will have to see how that builds up, if ever. Bless your day.

Monica, I agree that forgiveness does not obligate us to relationship, not can it guarantee trust.
I don’t disagree, actually. I perhaps expressed myself badly or incompletely. However if we cannot trust even if we have forgiven, then a relationship won’t work well, nor can we really feel at peace.

In the OP’s position I’m not sure I could easily trust her, even if I was compassionate about her past sexuality and even if I understood the lie that made her deceive me.

I’m terribly sad that my granddaughter has cut herself off from her mother. However, her mother betrayed her and her father so drastically and so many times that she dare not trust her anywhere into their lives. I know that she forgives and loves her, but she knows that her mother is extraordinarily erratic and dangerous. I saw the hurt in her eyes about a photo of her mother that she saw recently, and understand that her choice is about trust, not love, not forgiveness. It is a response to quite evil treatment from a person who was forgiven and welcomed again and again, and given chance after chance.

I wish it weren’t thus, but I do indeed know that forgiveness doesn’t equal trust.
And as the OP seems naturally so traumatized he needs time to know whether or not trust can ever be restored. Can it? My granddaughter and I have talked about it.

She parted with her last boyfriend, because he, like the first, flirted openly with other girls in front of her. Because her trust has been betrayed repeatedly by a person whom she should most trust, "trust is a non negotiable for you, isn’t it darling, I said to her when we discussed the breakup months after it occurred. “Yes” she said. I can’t understand how anyone could have such a beautiful, good person as their girlfriend, yet betray her. Please God she will find and be found by a true and wonderful man.

Anyway Monica, I don’t disagree sweet lady, I just know the danger of marrying where resentment and mistrust underpinned relationship, and have seen the unhappiness that results, so that was my focus. I do sometimes focus on a point and neglect the rest of the issue. Tunnel vision!

Thanks for so sweetly and kindly highlighting the inadequacy of my first response!

 

[WildCatholic]

This is just my humble opinion, but I think you should consider forgiving your girlfriend and continuing with your relationship. Previous “purity” shouldn’t be the most important thing in a relationship… It should be whether or not you are in love with her and whether or not God is calling you to be with her. If the answer to those questions are yes, then her past sins shouldn’t be an issue.

As Jesus said: “If your brother sins 7 times in a day and says he is sorry 7 times, forgive him”.

As someone who has messed up BIG TIME in my relationship and was forgiven, I can tell you how forgiveness by your significant other can really influence you to stay the course of holiness, and make your relationship stronger. Tell me what you think of this, OP.

Forgiveness is one thing but honestly I think the guy should break up with her. If she couldn’t tell him the truth after so many years, how does he know she’s not lying to him now. I say forgive her but move on. Relationships are about honesty. She basically stomped on the OP’s feelings and he needs to get out. She can go back to the old BF. Honestly to me cheating is the worst thing that can happen with a relationship and same with lying. Find a new woman pal. One who’s truly honest and won’t wait to tell you about past mistakes after you’ve been in a relationship for so long.

 

[AussieTrish]

I do understand lying from fear though. It depends on how the person presents their expectations, how a person nervous for approval and acceptance can respond. I remember a law student who asked me out when I was at university. One of his first comments was about high sexual morals which was fine and I agreed with him, but as we drove in his car and he happened to ask directions, which I gave, he responded with “I don’t believe in doing what women tell me to do” as his next ground rule, That was that! Too rigid for me. On a first date! I wasn’t women’s lib, but wasn’t impressed! I had “too many assignments to do” the next twice he asked me out.

The way a person presents can be daunting. I did in fact marry a man who was rigid in many ways! Believe me, it’s hard to always tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth with someone who’s going to jump down your throat for it!

I don’t know the OP, but I do know understand withholding facts or information through fear. These unknown elements in any question or issue brought by seekers of advice in the forum mean that mostly we cannot give a definitive answer to their dilemma or situation, or ever really be sure of our advice.

 

[Estevao]

You need to leave this girl, pronto. She has lied to you and lied about having violated chastity brazenly numerous times and there’s no way of telling that she won’t do it again, it would appear. One reason why purity is important is because having a track record demonstrates trustworthiness. How can you know that she won’t do this again? How can you know that she’s not doing this right now? After all, she said that she would agree with you breaking up with her, perhaps she’s looking for an out?

It seems that you can’t trust her based on her track record. All you seem to have is your feelings and having your heart strings being pulled by some woman weeping and crying “sorry!”. Actions speak louder than words, however. Where is the track record, where is the repentance and acknowledgement that what she did was wrong?

Also when she says she “didn’t know it was wrong” that is also false. This is a very common excuse for sexual immorality, but it is wrong and a lie. Read Romans 1, particularly verses 18-21.

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 1:18-21[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Groo]

What bothers me the most is that she was not attracted to you romantically for such a long time. I acknowledge that there are some women who grow to attraction through a lengthy friendship, but I think that is uncommon. In your case, I have my suspicions considering her continuing drama with her supposed ex-boyfriend.

It looks to me like this woman is using you as an emotional dumping bin while she messes around with other guys. She seems to have trouble keeping her hands off other guys, but I don’t get the impression she struggles when you are around. If you are interested in a lifelong marriage, picking someone who has a low attraction level towards you is a risky choice, my friend.

I think she needs to go as a girlfriend. If you want to retain her as a friend and accept that a romantic relationship is off the table, that might be an option - but only if you can accept seeing her with other guys. If it were one of my buddies going through this situation, I would tell him to break it off and not look back.

The saddest part about this is that by taking her back, she is likely to see that as a sign of weakness on your part. My expectation is that she is only going to grow more distant from you if you keep her as a ‘girlfriend’. You really deserve better.

 

[DeniseNY]

You need to leave this girl, pronto. She has lied to you and lied about having violated chastity brazenly numerous times and there’s no way of telling that she won’t do it again, it would appear.

Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that anyone will remain faithful in a relationship. Even those who proclaim their faith from the highest mountaintops can fall.

One reason why purity is important is because having a track record demonstrates trustworthiness. How can you know that she won’t do this again? How can you know that she’s not doing this right now? After all, she said that she would agree with you breaking up with her, perhaps she’s looking for an out?

Again, how does one know with absolute certainty that any partner will remain faithful?

It seems that you can’t trust her based on her track record. All you seem to have is your feelings and having your heart strings being pulled by some woman weeping and crying “sorry!”. Actions speak louder than words, however. Where is the track record, where is the repentance and acknowledgement that what she did was wrong?

How do you know that she isn’t sincere and repentant?

Also when she says she “didn’t know it was wrong” that is also false. This is a very common excuse for sexual immorality, but it is wrong and a lie.

With all due respect, there is no way you can know what she knew and didn’t know. A lot of people either lose their way or unfortunately just don’t always live their lives in accordance with the Truth.

Seems like what you’re saying is “once a sinner, always a sinner”. Which is not only completely false, but what’s more we are all sinners, aren’t we?

 

[fpt]

**

In the context of the marital act:

What are the sexual physical rights of the wife on the body of her husband:

to do, to take, to receive, to offer, to give, to donate, to sacrifice, to please, to satisfy, not to do, not to take, not to receive, not to offer, not to give, not to donate, not to sacrifice, not to please, not to satisfy, to have, not to have, to get, not to get, to obtain, not to obtain, to consent, not to consent, to agree with, not to agree with,to disagree with, not to disagree with, to say yes, not to say yes, to say no, not to say no, to ask, not to ask, to require, not to require, to request, not to request, to will, not to will, to wish, not to wish, to desire, not to desire, to want, not to want, to be active, not to be active, to be passive, not to be passive, to act, not to act, to react, not to react, to allow, not to allow, to implore, not to implore, to supplicate, not to supplicate, to beg, not to beg, to plead, not to plead, to refuse, not to refuse???

What are the sexual physical obligations of the wife on the body of her husband: to do, to take, to receive, to offer, to give, to donate, to sacrifice, to please, to satisfy, not to do, not to take, not to receive, not to offer, not to give, not to donate, not to sacrifice, not to please, not to satisfy, to have, not to have, to get, not to get, to obtain, not to obtain, to consent, not to consent, to agree with, not to agree with,to disagree with, not to disagree with, to say yes, not to say yes, to say no, not to say no, to ask, not to ask, to require, not to require, to request, not to request, to will, not to will, to wish, not to wish, to desire, not to desire, to want, not to want, to be active, not to be active, to be passive, not to be passive, to act, not to act, to react, not to react, to allow, not to allow, to implore, not to implore, to supplicate, not to supplicate, to beg, not to beg, to plead, not to plead, to refuse, not to refuse???

What are the sexual physical duties of the wife on the body of her husband: to do, to take, to receive, to offer, to give, to donate, to sacrifice, to please, to satisfy, not to do, not to take, not to receive, not to offer, not to give, not to donate, not to sacrifice, not to please, not to satisfy, to have, not to have, to get, not to get, to obtain, not to obtain, to consent, not to consent, to agree with, not to agree with,to disagree with, not to disagree with, to say yes, not to say yes, to say no, not to say no, to ask, not to ask, to require, not to require, to request, not to request, to will, not to will, to wish, not to wish, to desire, not to desire, to want, not to want, to be active, not to be active, to be passive, not to be passive, to act, not to act, to react, not to react, to allow, not to allow, to implore, not to implore, to supplicate, not to supplicate, to beg, not to beg, to plead, not to plead, to refuse, not to refuse???

What are the sexual physical rights of the husband on the body of his wife: to do, to take, to receive, to offer, to give, to donate, to sacrifice, to please, to satisfy, not to do, not to take, not to receive, not to offer, not to give, not to donate, not to sacrifice, not to please, not to satisfy, to have, not to have, to get, not to get, to obtain, not to obtain, to consent, not to consent, to agree with, not to agree with,to disagree with, not to disagree with, to say yes, not to say yes, to say no, not to say no, to ask, not to ask, to require, not to require, to request, not to request, to will, not to will, to wish, not to wish, to desire, not to desire, to want, not to want, to be active, not to be active, to be passive, not to be passive, to act, not to act, to react, not to react, to allow, not to allow, to implore, not to implore, to supplicate, not to supplicate, to beg, not to beg, to plead, not to plead, to refuse, not to refuse???

What are the sexual physical obligations of the husband on the body of his wife: to do, to take, to receive, to offer, to give, to donate, to sacrifice, to please, to satisfy, not to do, not to take, not to receive, not to offer, not to give, not to donate, not to sacrifice, not to please, not to satisfy, to have, not to have, to get, not to get, to obtain, not to obtain, to consent, not to consent, to agree with, not to agree with,to disagree with, not to disagree with, to say yes, not to say yes, to say no, not to say no, to ask, not to ask, to require, not to require, to request, not to request, to will, not to will, to wish, not to wish, to desire, not to desire, to want, not to want, to be active, not to be active, to be passive, not to be passive, to act, not to act, to react, not to react, to allow, not to allow, to implore, not to implore, to supplicate, not to supplicate, to beg, not to beg, to plead, not to plead, to refuse, not to refuse???

What are the sexual physical duties of the husband on the body of his wife: to do, to take, to receive, to offer, to give, to donate, to sacrifice, to please, to satisfy, not to do, not to take, not to receive, not to offer, not to give, not to donate, not to sacrifice, not to please, not to satisfy, to have, not to have, to get, not to get, to obtain, not to obtain, to consent, not to consent, to agree with, not to agree with,to disagree with, not to disagree with, to say yes, not to say yes, to say no, not to say no, to ask, not to ask, to require, not to require, to request, not to request, to will, not to will, to wish, not to wish, to desire, not to desire, to want, not to want, to be active, not to be active, to be passive, not to be passive, to act, not to act, to react, not to react, to allow, not to allow, to implore, not to implore, to supplicate, not to supplicate, to beg, not to beg, to plead, not to plead, to refuse, not to refuse???**

 

[fpt]

I highly recommend that you read this link… even though some popular books might say this, I think that traditional Catholic teaching would not be that supportive. catholicnewsagency.com/document.php?n=999

Morally speaking, in the context of the marital act:

Does she have the right to use foreplay on the body of her husband,in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to use foreplay on the body of his wife, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to see the body of her husband, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to see the body of his wife, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to look at the body of her husband, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to look at the body of his wife,in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to stare the body of her husband, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to stare the body of his wife,in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to listen the body of her husband,in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to listen the body of his wife,in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to hear the body of her husband, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to hear the body of his wife, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to touch the body of her husband, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to touch the body of his wife, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to kiss the body of her husband, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to kiss the body of his wife, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to caresse the body of her husband, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to caresse the body of his wife, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to massage the body of her husband, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to massage the body of his wife, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to lick the body of her husband, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to lick the body of his wife, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does she have the right to suck the body of her husband,in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.
Does he have the right to suck the body of his wife, in the love and in the tenderness? Of course yes.

Do you wish to marry a person who will refuse to touch you? Do you wish to marry a person who will refuse to be touched by you? Do you wish to marry a person who will refuse the foreplay? Do you wish to marry a person who will refuse the sexual foreplay? Do you wish to marry a person who will refuse to kiss your body, to massage your body, to caresse your body, to lick your body, to suck your body? Do you wish to marry a person who is against the sexual cooperation, in the human manner? Do you wish to marry a person who is against the conjugal erotism of the marital act? Do you wish to marry a person who will refuse to have some conjugal sexual pleasures and some conjugal sexual climaxes? Do you wish to marry a person who will refuse to see your body, to look at your body, and to stare your body?

 

[leoncaruthers]

Jesus forgave Mary Magdalene. He counted her among his disciples, he didn’t marry her or entrust her to be mother of his biological children.

Forgive her for lying to you. Be her friend if you have common interests other than each other. Don’t marry her.

 

[fpt]

I highly recommend that you read this link… even though some popular books might say this, I think that traditional Catholic teaching would not be that supportive. catholicnewsagency.com/document.php?n=999

In my humble opinion, the difficulties of the debate are linked to some issues.

The good definition of each sexual sin: the true acception, the principle of an acception of each sin, largo sensu or stricto sensu, the confusion in the terms and or in the words, the lack of the good definition???
The criterias for knowing if an act is morally wrong, per se, from itself, for itself, by itself, of itself, in itself, from itself or, only, in function of the situation???
The issues of heresies and ideologies about the body and the sex???
The nature of marriage: a sexed and sexual contract and a sexed and sexual institution???
The issues of the conjugal sexual rights: the right of the body, the right to the body, the right on the body, the conjugal sexual debts, the conjugal sexual right, the conjugal sexual obligation, the conjugal sexual duty, the donation of bodies, the reception of bodies, the sexual rights of the husband on the body of his wife, the sexual rights of the wife on the body of her husband???
The understanding of the natural moral order of the marital act???
The principle of liberty and the principle of responsablity???
The Song of Songs and the conjugal erotism of the marital act???
The difficulty of thinking the conjugal sexuality???

In catholicism, there are many ideologies on human nature and many heresies on the human nature, they are very powerful. The mentalities on the marriage and on the marital act are different in function of cultures, but via the catholicism, in the details with all the subleties (Faith and Reason, Reason and Faith), we have the keys for understanding the natural moral order of the marital act, in the materiality and the immateriality (the intentionality). We are are not angels, we are not animals, we are human beings. The marital act is composed of three moments, it is in the time of creation, the negation of those elements, in in the philosophy, is very crazy: it is a disease of the intelligence. The fact of being a pleasure-seeker of the marital act in the respect of the natural order is not immoral. Rights, obligations and duties of each member of couple in the respect of the order of the creation are the natural rules. The natural moral law of the marital act between wife and husband is not angelic, is not puritan, is not victorian, is not animalistic, is not crazy, is not…etc. The enjoyment in the respect of the natural moral order of the creation is the rule in catholicism. The fact of saying the contrary is not very catholic.

If you think and believe that foreplay are immoral, are against the natural moral law of the marital act ,and thus are sinful, there are many issues and problematics. That is very weird and even it is a sign of a crazy theology. You are not ready for the marriage, the marriage is not for you;

If you think and believe that sexual foreplay are immoral, are against the natural moral law of the marital act ,and thus are sinful, there are many issues and problematics. That is very weird and even it is a sign of a crazy theology. You are not ready for the marriage, the marriage is not for you;

The foreplay and the sexual foreplay are rights, obligations and duties for each member of couple, in the respect of the natural moral order of the marital act. It is not negociable, in my humble opinion. Only a mutual temporary agreement between wife and husband, for particular reasons, could be possible. The doctrinal exclusion of foreplay and of sexual foreplay in the context of the marital act is against the structure of the marital act and is against the rights, the duties and the obligations of each one. This moral theology is dangerous, is heretic, is crazy, is a shame, is stupid, it is a disease of the intelligence of the understanding of the real. The foreplay and the sexual foreplay, in the human manner, are a right for each spouse in the context of the marital act: to give and to receive. The obligation of sexual foreplay can be invoked by each member of couple: a debt, an obligation and a duty.

 

[fpt]

I highly recommend that you read this link… even though some popular books might say this, I think that traditional Catholic teaching would not be that supportive. catholicnewsagency.com/document.php?n=999

In USA, in Europe and everywhere in the world, there are fundamentalist “catholic” movements who want to be more catholic than the catholicism and than the Pope. *STOP, STOP, STOP.

When Dr. Alice von Hildebrand explains** that the puritanism and the friend thoughts are not a great issue in the modern world, I do not understand**. *Where does she live? *There are many works to do for destroying the Manicheism, the Catharism,the Jansenism, the Victorianism, the Puritanism, the Prudism, **the intellectual diseases concerning the body and the sins of body. **

In catholicism, the essential paradigm is the enjoyment in the respect of the natural moral order of the creation.** We can apply that view to the marital act (see the Song of Songs)**. In the marriage, the conjugal passion, even the conjugal sexual passion, does not have to be opposed to the reason. Reason and passion, and passion and reason are not opposed, per se. By definition, love is passion otherwise that is not love, but passion has to be reasonned. Love without passion is not the love. Love is a sentiment, a will and a choice with a reasonable passion. The conjugal romantism has to be attempted, that is an obligation of means. *The fact of being a conjugal pleasure-seeker in the respect of the natural moral order is a Holy Eros. *

 

[Nan_S]

Seems like what you’re saying is “once a sinner, always a sinner”. Which is not only completely false, but what’s more we are all sinners, aren’t we?

Pride, wrath, greed, gluttony, sloth, envy, lust.

Someone who is rigidly unforgiving about old sexual sins (“She LIED to me!”) which are long since ended is himself guilty of pride, wrath, and gluttony.

Pride: He self-justifies his own past sinfulness but is rigidly unforgiving of her past sins.
Wrath: The Lord has forgiven, but he feels that she still must be punished for old sins.
Gluttony: He exhibits the gluttony of the connoisseur, maintaining that he is entitled to the best of things with no regard to his own failings.

I do agree with one thing. He shouldn’t marry the girl. If he can’t forgive her for confessing old sins that she has long since ceased to commit, he’ll make a poor husband.

 

[The_Bucket]

Pride, wrath, greed, gluttony, sloth, envy, lust.

Someone who is rigidly unforgiving about old sexual sins (“She LIED to me!”) which are long since ended is himself guilty of pride, wrath, and gluttony.

Pride: He self-justifies his own past sinfulness but is rigidly unforgiving of her past sins.
Wrath: The Lord has forgiven, but he feels that she still must be punished for old sins.
Gluttony: He exhibits the gluttony of the connoisseur, maintaining that he is entitled to the best of things with no regard to his own failings.

I do agree with one thing. He shouldn’t marry the girl. If he can’t forgive her for confessing old sins that she has long since ceased to commit, he’ll make a poor husband.

Quite right. It would be a far different matter if these events took place while they were in a relationship. But it didn’t. Even in the most recent case it was more than a year before they dated.

She shouldn’t have lied. But her reasons for doing so are totally understandable. Embarrassment, shame, feeling that the OP would deem her “unworthy” or “unlovable,” some of which seems to have come to pass indeed!

OP, I’d be far more angered about her hiding these sins from you than her actually committing them. She had absolutely no obligation to tell you about what she did or did not do with an ex, unless there were temporal consequences like her getting an STD or something. It’s not your business. You are not her confessor. But since you asked and she answered, she should have been honest. She was not. I’d be more concerned that she couldn’t just say “I did this, I regretted it.”

 

[EasterJoy]

Pride, wrath, greed, gluttony, sloth, envy, lust.

Someone who is rigidly unforgiving about old sexual sins (“She LIED to me!”) which are long since ended is himself guilty of pride, wrath, and gluttony.

Pride: He self-justifies his own past sinfulness but is rigidly unforgiving of her past sins.
Wrath: The Lord has forgiven, but he feels that she still must be punished for old sins.
Gluttony: He exhibits the gluttony of the connoisseur, maintaining that he is entitled to the best of things with no regard to his own failings.

I do agree with one thing. He shouldn’t marry the girl. If he can’t forgive her for confessing old sins that she has long since ceased to commit, he’ll make a poor husband.

This is a rash as the advice that he ought to reject her out of hand. He is shocked by her disclosure, and although she admitted her wrongdoing herself, it was wrongdoing that went over a long period of time.

It would be well for them to take a deep breath, calm down, and air their worries with heads who are both very wise and very discrete. It would be a good idea for them to agree to stay off the topic for a period of time, because what is once said cannot be unsaid. They are both in a rash and desperate state of mind. They need to take this slow and try to refrain from doing in damage because they reacted instead of considering a response.

It will take work and time to get past this. That is both in the forgiving and in the forging of a new foundation of trust. Again, I cannot urge them too much to find someone discrete and of sound judgment with whom to “debrief.” This will spare them many decisions that they will look back on for a long time, and perhaps second-guess for a long time. You cannot guarantee yourself that you could not have done better in a situation like this. It is worth your while to do your best, and be able to look back and say, “My decisions were not all perfect, some I cannot know how they might have turned out if I had done otherwise, but I am satisfied that I did as well as I could, considering what I knew then and what wisdom I had to work with at the time.”

 

[EasterJoy]

My main point is that whatever you decide to do, OP:

a) avoid saying or doing anything rashly, and try to stay out of situations where you or your girlfriend will do or say anything rash. For your sake and for hers, stay calm and make no promises nor any threats nor make any decisions that will be yours to live with for a lifetime. Slow down.

b) find yourself someone wise and discrete to whom you can talk to in person from time to time. It might be your pastor. It might be your father or your godfather or your confirmation sponsor or just someone whose judgment you respect. By all means, though, let it be someone whose discretion is beyond question. You need to be able to say what is really on your mind without judgment and without the fear that you will speak in a way that feels true now but turns out to be false or overly harsh later, and comes back to haunt you because it gets back to your girl friend or reflects badly on her to the world. Even now, keep her protection in mind. A discrete and wise Catholic sounding board will also avoid being too harsh on you in this difficult time. You need compassion, too. (Notice I did not say “deserve.” This is not about what you are or not entitled to; that is of no account. The compassion, wisdom, and support of an older, holier, and more mature man than you have yet become are what you *need *right now.)

Remember when St. Joseph found that Our Lady was with child. Being an upright man, his plan was to divorce her but to do so quietly to avoid exposing her to the law. He was not upright only, but also compassionate. A good man keeps his compassion in a time like this, even if he has to make the hard choice to end the relationship. Let St. Joseph be your model, your guide and your intercessor, and you will not go wrong. (Take that advice to the bank for your lifetime, dear fellow!)

 

[fpt]

Hi all!
I really have no one to talk to (besides my girlfriend) so I decided to post on this forum because I am really really devout catholic and I really need to share this with someone and hear advices and maybe ask for a prayer…I am really broken right now

so here goes my story…I warn you…could be long

here it goes …4 years ago I met this girl…she had a boyfriend at a time(for about year and 3 mounts) but broke up with him few mounts after we met… with time we became friends and I am the one that was there for her when she and her now ex-boyfriend broke up…she claimed that she was the one dumping him and reason being him wanting a premartial sex.
As a very conservative person this really meant a LOT to me and I started to fall in love with her at that time…we were really close and talked about religion and spirituality(I was anti catholic at time but in time became really devout catholic)…she was always devout catholic and was really strong about her views witch really started to affect me when I became catholic myself…I thought she was perfect pretty,good person,catholic and most importantly PURE.

Before the marriage or before the fiançailles, you need to know in order to be very prudent, in the natural and catholic way, if you are almost on the same line, intellectually speaking, psychologically speaking, mentally speaking, emotionally speaking, morally speaking, theologically speaking, philosophically speaking about the conjugal rules of the marital act. Are you almost comptatible, a priori? Do you have the same level of view of moral standards of the marital act? The evaluation of the compatibility, via communication, via discussions about what is morally permissible. Otherwise, the sexual life will be very difficult, no sexual harmony, no the same view of conjugal sex life, too much imprudent.

You need to discuss about:

The N.F.P. and the natural methods for avoiding or postponing a new baby (the responsible procreation - the responsible motherhood and the responsible fatherhood -, the acception of grave and serious reasons, the conjugal theoritical providentialism of the procreation, the conjugal quiverfullism of the procreation, the conjugal fideism of the procreation, the conjugal quietism of the procreation), the future education of children;

The articulations of ends of marriage and the articulations of ends of the marital act (the conjugal personalism and the senses of marital act);

The rights / duties / obligations of wife, the rights / duties / obligations of husband, the rights / duties / obligations of mother, the rights / duties / obligations of father concerning the marital act, on the conjugal life and on the family life;

The equity and the equality between wife and husband : the mutual, reciprocal, bilateral, equal, equitable and reasonnable donation of persons (body, soul and heart) and the mutual, reciprocal, bilateral, equal, equitable and reasonnable reception of persons (body, soul and heart) ;

The modus operandi of the conjugal physical love of the marital act is very essential and very important for each member of couple. Are you ready for learning with her? Is she ready for learning with you? Is she ready for being your teacher, your professor, your master, your schoolgirl, your student, your learner, your follower and your conjugal lover? Are ready you for being her teacher, her professor, her master, her schoolboy, her student, her learner, her follower and her conjugal lover? Will she be ready for being your spouse / wife what means to be your female lover, your mistress, your girlfriend, your female best friend, your female soulmate, your female beloved, your helper, your own female? Will you be ready for being her spouse / husband what means to be her male lover, her love master, her boyfriend, her male best friend, her male soulmate, her male beloved, her helper, her own male? Is she a manichaean person ? Is she a cathar person? Is she a jansenist person? Is she a quietist person? Is she a fideist person? Is she a theoretical providentialist person? Is she a quiverfull person? Is she a puritan person? Is she a victorian person? Is she a moralist person? Is she a rigorist person? Is she an externalist person? Is she a judgmentalist person? Is she a pharisaical person? Is she a naive person? Is she a shy person? Is she an uptight person? Is she a prudish person? Is she an angelical person? Is she a scrupulous person? Is she an obsessed person by the sins of the conjugal flesh? Does she see the near occasion of sins of the conjugal flesh, very easily? Is she a radical feminist person? Is she a primary anti-personalist person? Are you a manichaean person ? Are you a cathar person? Are you a jansenist person? Are you a quietist person? Are you a fideist person? Are you a theoretical providentialist person? Are you a quiverfull person? Are you a puritan person? Are you a victorian person? Are you a moralist person? Are you a rigorist person? Are you an externalist person? Are you a judgmentalist person? Are you a pharisaical person? Are you a naive person? Are you a shy person? Are you an uptight person? Are you a prudish person? Are you an angelical person? Are you a scrupulous person? Are you an obsessed person by the sins of the conjugal flesh? Do you see the near occasion of sins of the conjugal flesh, very easily? Are you a radical masculinist person? Are you a primary anti-personalist person?

 

[EasterJoy]

phoenix1950;12051544:

Hi all!
I really have no one to talk to (besides my girlfriend) so I decided to post on this forum because I am really really devout catholic and I really need to share this with someone and hear advices and maybe ask for a prayer…I am really broken right now

so here goes my story…I warn you…could be long

here it goes …4 years ago I met this girl…she had a boyfriend at a time(for about year and 3 mounts) but broke up with him few mounts after we met… with time we became friends and I am the one that was there for her when she and her now ex-boyfriend broke up…she claimed that she was the one dumping him and reason being him wanting a premartial sex.
As a very conservative person this really meant a LOT to me and I started to fall in love with her at that time…we were really close and talked about religion and spirituality(I was anti catholic at time but in time became really devout catholic)…she was always devout catholic and was really strong about her views witch really started to affect me when I became catholic myself…I thought she was perfect pretty,good person,catholic and most importantly PURE.

Before the marriage

or before the fiançailles, you need to know in order to be very prudent, in the natural and catholic way, if you are almost on the same line, intellectually speaking, psychologically speaking, mentally speaking, emotionally speaking, morally speaking, theologically speaking, philosophically speaking about the conjugal rules of the marital act. Are you almost comptatible, a priori? Do you have the same level of view of moral standards of the marital act? The evaluation of the compatibility, via communication, via discussions about what is morally permissible. Otherwise, the sexual life will be very difficult, no sexual harmony, no the same view of conjugal sex life, too much imprudent.

You need to discuss about:

The N.F.P. and the natural methods for avoiding or postponing a new baby (the responsible procreation - the responsible motherhood and the responsible fatherhood -, the acception of grave and serious reasons, the conjugal theoritical providentialism of the procreation, the conjugal quiverfullism of the procreation, the conjugal fideism of the procreation, the conjugal quietism of the procreation), the future education of children;

The articulations of ends of marriage and the articulations of ends of the marital act (the conjugal personalism and the senses of marital act);

The rights / duties / obligations of wife, the rights / duties / obligations of husband, the rights / duties / obligations of mother, the rights / duties / obligations of father concerning the marital act, on the conjugal life and on the family life;

The equity and the equality between wife and husband : the mutual, reciprocal, bilateral, equal, equitable and reasonnable donation of persons (body, soul and heart) and the mutual, reciprocal, bilateral, equal, equitable and reasonnable reception of persons (body, soul and heart) ;

The modus operandi of the conjugal physical love of the marital act is very essential and very important for each member of couple. Are you ready for learning with her? Is she ready for learning with you? Is she ready for being your teacher, your professor, your master, your schoolgirl, your student, your learner, your follower and your conjugal lover? Are ready you for being her teacher, her professor, her master, her schoolboy, her student, her learner, her follower and her conjugal lover? Will she be ready for being your spouse / wife what means to be your female lover, your mistress, your girlfriend, your female best friend, your female soulmate, your female beloved, your helper, your own female? Will you be ready for being her spouse / husband what means to be her male lover, her love master, her boyfriend, her male best friend, her male soulmate, her male beloved, her helper, her own male? Is she a manichaean person ? Is she a cathar person? Is she a jansenist person? Is she a quietist person? Is she a fideist person? Is she a theoretical providentialist person? Is she a quiverfull person? Is she a puritan person? Is she a victorian person? Is she a moralist person? Is she a rigorist person? Is she an externalist person? Is she a judgmentalist person? Is she a pharisaical person? Is she a naive person? Is she a shy person? Is she an uptight person? Is she a prudish person? Is she an angelical person? Is she a scrupulous person? Is she an obsessed person by the sins of the conjugal flesh? Does she see the near occasion of sins of the conjugal flesh, very easily? Is she a radical feminist person? Is she a primary anti-personalist person? Are you a manichaean person ? Are you a cathar person? Are you a jansenist person? Are you a quietist person? Are you a fideist person? Are you a theoretical providentialist person? Are you a quiverfull person? Are you a puritan person? Are you a victorian person? Are you a moralist person? Are you a rigorist person? Are you an externalist person? Are you a judgmentalist person? Are you a pharisaical person? Are you a naive person? Are you a shy person? Are you an uptight person? Are you a prudish person? Are you an angelical person? Are you a scrupulous person? Are you an obsessed person by the sins of the conjugal flesh? Do you see the near occasion of sins of the conjugal flesh, very easily? Are you a radical masculinist person? Are you a primary anti-personalist person?

These considerations are a bit down the road for the OP. His mind is reeling, after all. His assumptions have been scattered about and turned upside down, and he has not gathered them in and set them right again. He is not ready to judge these things rightly at the moment, do you think?

 

[fpt]

Hi all!
I really have no one to talk to (besides my girlfriend) so I decided to post on this forum because I am really really devout catholic and I really need to share this with someone and hear advices and maybe ask for a prayer…I am really broken right now

so here goes my story…I warn you…could be long

here it goes …4 years ago I met this girl…she had a boyfriend at a time(for about year and 3 mounts) but broke up with him few mounts after we met… with time we became friends and I am the one that was there for her when she and her now ex-boyfriend broke up…she claimed that she was the one dumping him and reason being him wanting a premartial sex.
As a very conservative person this really meant a LOT to me and I started to fall in love with her at that time…we were really close and talked about religion and spirituality(I was anti catholic at time but in time became really devout catholic)…she was always devout catholic and was really strong about her views witch really started to affect me when I became catholic myself…I thought she was perfect pretty,good person,catholic and most importantly PURE.
This was all about 4 years ago…from then to now she quickly became most important person in my life and I really admired her and loved her…but she was always somehow distant in romantic way and didn’t find me attractive although she liked me as a person and loved spending her time with me…with time she started falling in love with me as well and we started a relationship about year ago.
We made a commitment and decided to wait for marriage(if we even get to that…) and NEVER went further from a simple kiss,hug or honest talk and prayer. We went daily to mass and everything seemed perfect.

Unfortunetly yesterday she came to me without a usual smile,she was really sad and had hard time telling me what was problem with her…we talked and talked and I found out that she was not a virgin as she claimed she was(she did told me before that she allowed her ex to touch her bottom and breast but I thought that was MAXIMUM)…looks like althought she still had her himen (didn’t have vaginal intercourse) she pretty much did everything else…

She claimed that she didn’t know that it was bad at a time and that she understands it just now when she is with me and that now she understands what is love and purity of love.
I listened to her and did my best to make it work,she cried and I wiped her tears trying not to cry myself…I decided to forgive her…problem is at the time she still didn’t tell me what was that she did with him…
Today she finally told me WHOLE truth…she broke up with him as I said about 4 years ago and in relationship it wasn’t that bad…it was sinful but only…erm…hand work

BIGGER problem with me is when she told me that he gave her and she gave him oral sex 2 YEARS AGO…meaning 2 years after they broke up…she claims she was still in love and wanted him back,he gave her oral sex and she did it to him…but during intercourse got disgusted and didn’t want to do it. till the end(although he did it to her completly)

what really hurts me is that she knows how much purity means to me,this happened about a year before we started dating and at the time were getting somehow romantic so I feel betrayed…and everything I thought I knew about her in this 4 years and my whole relationship was a LIE!!!
I tried to comfort her untill she told me this…but when I found out I was so broken I started crying(first time in very very long time),she cried as well…I felt disgusted by her but still didn’t want my hot head and emotions to control me…I still wanted to save what we had…I still wanted to be with her and try to forgive her…I know that she is sorry about it and scarred for life…she is aware how much this hurts me and full of tears told me that if I decide to dump her she will agree with me.

I didn’t want that …luckily we are both devout catholics so we decided to find a priest and get confession…after it we both cried and I promissed her that we can start over,that I really want to see her as pure once again…that we can forget about her past and her lies and make it work.

I don’t know what to do…I hope I made a right decision by trying to forgive her

If you came this far reading this post I thank you ))

please pray for me and forgive me about my grammar mistakes

Truly speaking, you should question yourself by these below questions:

Do you love her? Are you in love for her? Do you wish to love her? Do you hope to love her? Do you desire to love her? Do you want to love her? Do you want to make the choice to love her? Do you want to share your soul, your heart and your body with her? Do you want to help her by the conjugal love with you?

If yes, you need to pray God and Holy Mary for making the good choice. You need to use the reason in order to make **a passional and reasonnable choice. **

If no, you need to pray God and Holy Mary for finding the best way to explain to her your choice of stopping this relationship of love and to stay friends if it is possible. Ask to St Joseph to help you.

 

[fpt]

fpt;12053866:

These considerations are a bit down the road for the OP. His mind is reeling, after all. His assumptions have been scattered about and turned upside down, and he has not gathered them in and set them right again. He is not ready to judge these things rightly at the moment, do you think?

YES, of course.

I wanted only to explain to him that the sexual issues should be discussed before the marriage in order to avoid crazy difficulties. In his case, the issues are linked to the sexual lies, to the female virginity and to some sexual practices.

If he decide to go further with her, he should be ready for this great talk. I hope the best for him and her.

 

[Estevao]

Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that anyone will remain faithful in a relationship. Even those who proclaim their faith from the highest mountaintops can fall.

Again, how does one know with absolute certainty that any partner will remain faithful?

Well, that’s the thing, you can’t. But you can trust people, and some people are more trustworthy than others and would make suitable mates, and a way to tell this is through a track record of chaste living and not lying.

How do you know that she isn’t sincere and repentant?

With all due respect, there is no way you can know what she knew and didn’t know. A lot of people either lose their way or unfortunately just don’t always live their lives in accordance with the Truth.

Well, obviously I don’t know all the details, but it seems to me that when a person says “I didn’t know what I was doing” then they didn’t really do anything wrong if that’s the case, and then there is no sin and no repentance. But that’s false on the face of it because sexual immorality is a grave sin, and people know that it’s wrong, but they “suppress the truth in unrighteousness” as Romans 1:18 says.

Seems like what you’re saying is “once a sinner, always a sinner”. Which is not only completely false, but what’s more we are all sinners, aren’t we?

Yes we all are sinners, and I’m not saying that this woman absolutely couldn’t be a good wife for OP, or that OP shouldn’t forgive her. But will she make a good mate for OP? As another poster pointed out, if the sexes were reversed in this, I know people would be coming down hard on the man very fast and would be telling OP to ditch him. But when I come in and try ask OP some questions to get him to think about this, people seem to think that I’m casting aspersions on her or saying that OP shouldn’t forgive her. No what I’m saying is that OP needs to consider if this woman is trustworthy.