My husband has been silenced by his pastor

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My husband was invited by one of the priests in the vicariate to preach the Homily for a series of Communal Penances. This schedule was published among the parishes he was invited to, the last one (December 19) to take place at his assignment. He has done 3 so far.

He has received nothing but praise for his message of penance and preparation from the priests who attended these services. The priest who invited him has a PhD in Homiletics and was his professor last year. His pastor was at last night’s service to hear individual confessions. He neither praised, nor criticized my husband, but pulled him aside and told him,“I’m doing the Homily at our parish.” Talk about being socked in the gut. Other priests are begging my husband for help (and he gladly helps out when he can), but his own assignment pastor keeps him quiet. He wants his parishioners to hear how “good and Holy” they are. Not that we are all sinners. :confused: 'Scuse me - isn’t that the reason for the penance service?

Last year during Advent, he was allowed to preach one weekend. The next weekend, the pastor completely undermined the message of preparation. Since that time, he has preached only twice with the pastor there… (When the pastor is out of town, one of the subs regularly invites my hubby to preach, which is wonderful)

This is the same pastor who would not work with an associate priest ordained last year because he was considered “rigid” and had him removed before the pastor took the assignment. It is so bad over there, that we don’t even worship together. My husband is not invited to any of the “shindigs” the pastor has, does all the funeral vigils (apparently the pastor thinks they’re a bother - my husband loves to do them. The rectory was telling the families they can’t have a Rosary, but because of my husband they now ask the families), and is pretty much just used as needed. I know the pastor knows we’re married, but he is completely uninterested in our family. He knows that we are good friends with the priest he had removed, and therefore he has no use for me, and as little as possible to do with my husband.

My husband is not like me. He is very obedient. He signed a contract with the previous pastor (who was elevated to bishop - but that’s another saga), and he wants to honor the contract, no matter how unpleasant the assignment.

This was a combination vent/and exposure of another clamp down on orthdoxy. Keep him and all orthodox deacons in your prayers, right along with your prayers for priests.
 
Detroit Sue:
My husband is not like me. He is very obedient.
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There you have it. Be more like him and you will not feel a need to vent.

Catholicism is a liturgical religion whereas Protestantism is a rhetorical religion. Your emphasis on sermons is rather Protestant of you. – Sincerely, Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic
 
JMJ + OBT​
Dear Albert,

When your posts are that reflective and insightful . . . best keep them to yourself.

God bless.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA
 
Women need to vent. It’s mostly a female thing. So, be a good guy, shut up, and pretend to listen, OK??? 😃
 
albert cipriani:
There you have it. Be more like him and you will not feel a need to vent.
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What kind of response is that? Sue posted this in the hope that members of this board would read and identify with yet another orthodox voice being muted through the intolerance of the “progressive” elements of our Church. Speaking out when we perceive being wronged is absolutely within our rights as Catholics and more importantly, as children of God.

Sue and her husband have: “the right and sometimes the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to*** make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful…”*** (Canon 212 ss3)

also see:
“Those engaged in the sacred disciplines have a just freedom of inquiry and of expressing their opinion prudently on those matters in which they possess expertise while observing the submission due to the magisterium of the Church” (Canon 218)

Codex Iuris Canonici
1983
1989 Libreria Editrice Vaticana
Rome
Latin-English Translation
1999 Canon Law Society of America
Washington, D.C.

Her husband is observing his submission to the magisterium, (although I am curious as to whether or not his contract with the former pastor was with the pastor specifically or the parish in general.)
Catholicism is a liturgical religion whereas Protestantism is a rhetorical religion. Your emphasis on sermons is rather Protestant of you. – Sincerely, Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic
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The Church is defined as a community where “the faithful are gathered together through the preaching of the Gospel of Christ and the mystery of the Lord’s Supper is celebrated…” (CCC, 832)

Catechism of the Catholic Church
1994 Libreria Editrice Vaticana
Rome

To encourage blind submission to an authority figure is not Catholic nor is it liturgical, is Pharisaical. Sue, I will pray for you and your husband and for your pastor who seems to have forgotten that “the cross without Christ is justice without mercy but, Christ without the cross is mercy without justice” (Sheen)
 
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WhiteDove:
Women need to vent. It’s mostly a female thing.
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'Taint fair! Why do you get to have all the fun while us guys have to content ourselves with dry logic.

Actually, I vent quite a bit on message boards. Only I do so logically. I didn’t mean to be mean. I’ll shut up now. 🙂 – Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic
 
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Nichevo:
The Church is defined as a community where “the faithful are gathered together through the preaching of the Gospel of Christ and the mystery of the Lord’s Supper is celebrated…” (CCC, 832)
Click to expand...
That is a description, not a definition, of the Catholic Church. Proof that it is not a definition is evident by the fact that it accurately applies to any number of Protestant Churches, for they preach the gospel and celebrate the Lord’s Supper.

Remember, the catechism is not an infallible source. If you want to understand Church teaching you must have recourse to primary sources, such as Denzinger’s. – Sincerely, Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic
 
Sue, your husband is very fortunate to have you as an advocate, as are all the married permanent deacons fortunate , whom have wives to help in their lives.

We have had pastor/deacon problems in our diocese, also. I don’t like labels such as Othodox Etc. We are divided enough from our Protestant brothers and sisters, I would like to see us more united. I believe the problems for the most part are caused by personality. Just as everyone that posts here is different, each and every pastor is different. We have a pastor that alternates with his deacon in giving the homily.The deacon preaches every other week. We had a pastor with two deacons and would let one help him with the preaching, but not the other one. We have a deacon that spends a great deal of time at a juvenile offender camp and does not even assist at his parish. (Possibly some kind of personality clash). The Permanent Diaconate is still in it’s infant stage. The church moves very slowly, we are still in the process of finding an identity, which will probably come long after we all have passed on and gone ahead.

May God bless you and my brother deacon,
 
Detroit Sue:
My husband was invited by one of the priests in the vicariate to preach the Homily for a series of Communal Penances. This schedule was published among the parishes he was invited to, the last one (December 19) to take place at his assignment. He has done 3 so far.

He has received nothing but praise for his message of penance and preparation from the priests who attended these services. The priest who invited him has a PhD in Homiletics and was his professor last year. His pastor was at last night’s service to hear individual confessions. He neither praised, nor criticized my husband, but pulled him aside and told him,“I’m doing the Homily at our parish.” Talk about being socked in the gut. Other priests are begging my husband for help (and he gladly helps out when he can), but his own assignment pastor keeps him quiet. He wants his parishioners to hear how “good and Holy” they are. Not that we are all sinners. :confused: 'Scuse me - isn’t that the reason for the penance service?

Last year during Advent, he was allowed to preach one weekend. The next weekend, the pastor completely undermined the message of preparation. Since that time, he has preached only twice with the pastor there… (When the pastor is out of town, one of the subs regularly invites my hubby to preach, which is wonderful)

This is the same pastor who would not work with an associate priest ordained last year because he was considered “rigid” and had him removed before the pastor took the assignment. It is so bad over there, that we don’t even worship together. My husband is not invited to any of the “shindigs” the pastor has, does all the funeral vigils (apparently the pastor thinks they’re a bother - my husband loves to do them. The rectory was telling the families they can’t have a Rosary, but because of my husband they now ask the families), and is pretty much just used as needed. I know the pastor knows we’re married, but he is completely uninterested in our family. He knows that we are good friends with the priest he had removed, and therefore he has no use for me, and as little as possible to do with my husband.

My husband is not like me. He is very obedient. He signed a contract with the previous pastor (who was elevated to bishop - but that’s another saga), and he wants to honor the contract, no matter how unpleasant the assignment.

This was a combination vent/and exposure of another clamp down on orthdoxy. Keep him and all orthodox deacons in your prayers, right along with your prayers for priests.
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i AM SORRY TO THROW A WRENCH AT YOUR WHEEL, BUT UNLESS YOUR HUSBAND IS A PRIEST OR A DEACON, HE IS NEVER ALLOWED TO GIVE THE “HOMILY.” SORRY, VATICAN RULES: smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_17_3.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_17_3.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_17_7.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_28_1.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_28_4.gif
 
JMJ + OBT​

A careful reading of earlier posts in this thread reveals that her husband is indeed an ordained deacon in the Catholic Church.
 
albert cipriani:
That is a description, not a definition, of the Catholic Church. Proof that it is not a definition is evident by the fact that it accurately applies to any number of Protestant Churches, for they preach the gospel and celebrate the Lord’s Supper.
Click to expand...
I’m not so sure, if you read the description, (not definition thank you for the correction in word choice), the Chatechism says,“the mystery of the Lord’s Supper is celebrated”. Protestant Churches celebrate the Lord’s Supper but I’m not sure they celebrate the mystery of it. Since the majority of them believe it is only symbolic, are they sharing in the mystery that is the real presence?

Sue, has your husband put any of his advent homilies down on paper? If so, and if he’s willing, I would love to read them.

I
 
whosebob said:

JMJ + OBT​

A careful reading of earlier posts in this thread reveals that her husband is indeed an ordained deacon in the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...

Where? I sure didn’t see it. I had to just assume he was a deacon, but you know what happens when one ASSumes…
 
Yes, he is a Permanent Deacon with full faculties. You have to understand the parish he is assigned to. If the parishioners hear the message that we are all sinners, in need of the healing sacrament of Confession, collections go down. They respond very favorably to the Kumbaya treatment.

No, I do not attend that parish.
 
Don’t deacons serve at the request of the priests to whom they are assigned? If so, then it seems your husband is right to be obedient to the priest to whom he is assigned. While he may be used to a greater extent than he is, that would seem to be entirely at the discretion of his priest.

I don’t understand why what you are describing is a “clamp down on orthodoxy”. I would think that the priest is the orthodox one–retaining the priestly functions for himself unless he deems it necessary to share them with the deacon.

While all wives think our husbands are extraordinary, we need to be circumspect in how we share our views. It is generally viewed badly when a wife criticizes her husband’s boss. While we need to be supportive of our husbands and their job frustrations, we need to be careful about sharing those frustrations and undermining their careers. (I say that as one who tries to follow my own advice.) God bless.
 
La Chiara:
Don’t deacons serve at the request of the priests to whom they are assigned? If so, then it seems your husband is right to be obedient to the priest to whom he is assigned. While he may be used to a greater extent than he is, that would seem to be entirely at the discretion of his priest.
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He was not stopped until *his *pastor heard his homily.
La Chiara}:
This was a scheduled series. It had been arranged since the first part of November. As I mentioned in the beginning, the priest who scheduled this has a PhD in Homiletics, and hand-picked my husband. This priest has been at every one of the services. He has already done 3 of these services, with glowing feedback from all of the priests, except the one he is assigned to. This pastor will not focus on our fallen nature and need for Absolution. As a matter of fact, there are two confessionals in his church, which are being used for storage. On the occasion (monthly, I believe) of confessions being heard, he uses the “cry room.” There is never a line up of people for the Sacrament. 😦
La Chiara:
While all wives think our husbands are extraordinary, we need to be circumspect in how we share our views. It is generally viewed badly when a wife criticizes her husband’s boss. While we need to be supportive of our husbands and their job frustrations, we need to be careful about sharing those frustrations and undermining their careers. (I say that as one who tries to follow my own advice.) God bless.
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That’s why I don’t attend that parish. I wouldn’t dare to do anything to jeopardize or scandalize my husband. Don’t worry - the feeling is mutual. The pastor doesn’t like me much, either. 😉
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I suggest you read Goodbye, Good Men. I just checked it out from my public library. It would explain much about your husband being labeled as “rigid,” and help you understand why he may be reluctant to take a stand. (He may have been exposed to things you cannot even imagine.) I would be happy that he isn’t invited to any “shindigs.”

Peace,
MamaGeek
 
La Chiara:
Don’t deacons serve at the request of the priests to whom they are assigned? If so, then it seems your husband is right to be obedient to the priest to whom he is assigned. While he may be used to a greater extent than he is, that would seem to be entirely at the discretion of his priest.
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Deacons serve, as do all clergy, at the request of the local Ordinary, not at the request of a pastor

But you are correct that they are to follow the instructions of their pastor, as he is the assigned representative of the Bishop at the parish.
 
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MamaGeek:
I suggest you read Goodbye, Good Men. I just checked it out from my public library. It would explain much about your husband being labeled as “rigid,” and help you understand why he may be reluctant to take a stand. (He may have been exposed to things you cannot even imagine.) I would be happy that he isn’t invited to any “shindigs.”

Peace,
MamaGeek
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Be careful what you suggest to others. Goodbye God Men by Mike Rose isn’t always accurate, it dosen’t always give the entire story and it’s extremely inflammatory. Rose is a bookeeper by trade/education. He is not a trained investigative journalist and his writings tend to follow an extremely reductionist format. In short, while he produces soothing “mind candy”, he rarely provides the reader with a truly edifying experience.

I would much rather see books like The Courage to be Catholic by George Weigel recommded to to others.
 
albert cipriani:
That is a description, not a definition, of the Catholic Church. Proof that it is not a definition is evident by the fact that it accurately applies to any number of Protestant Churches, for they preach the gospel and celebrate the Lord’s Supper.

Remember, the catechism is not an infallible source. If you want to understand Church teaching you must have recourse to primary sources, such as Denzinger’s. – Sincerely, Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic
Click to expand...
Denzinger’s Enchiridion Symbolorum is NOT a primary source. Primary Catholic sources include, but are not limited to: the Bible, the CCC, Church encyclicals, the Code of Canon Law, etc. etc.

You are giving inaccurate advice…
 
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