My husband has been silenced by his pastor

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Goodbye God Men
by Mike Rose isn’t always accurate, it dosen’t always give the entire story and it’s extremely inflammatory. ** *
And your source for this rather inflammatory accusation is…?
Rose is a bookeeper by trade/education. He is not a trained investigative journalist…
You would rather we listen to a “trained investigate journalist” like, oh, Dan Rather?
In short, while he produces soothing “mind candy”, he rarely provides the reader with a truly edifying experience.
There is nothing “soothing” about Goodbye, Good Men.
 
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Chickamauga:
And your source for this rather inflammatory accusation is…?

You would rather we listen to a “trained investigate journalist” like, oh, Dan Rather?

There is nothing “soothing” about Goodbye, Good Men.
Read some of the “conservative” reviews of Rose and his inflammitory books. Begin with Google.

Dan Rather might fit your definition of a good reporter, but he does not fit mine. Although I’m certain Dan is far more capable in this area than Rose.

Goodbye, Good Men is indeed soothing mind-candy for those not willing to dig/think a bit deeper.
 
La Chiara:
Don’t deacons serve at the request of the priests to whom they are assigned? If so, then it seems your husband is right to be obedient to the priest to whom he is assigned. While he may be used to a greater extent than he is, that would seem to be entirely at the discretion of his priest.

I don’t understand why what you are describing is a “clamp down on orthodoxy”. I would think that the priest is the orthodox one–retaining the priestly functions for himself unless he deems it necessary to share them with the deacon.

While all wives think our husbands are extraordinary, we need to be circumspect in how we share our views. It is generally viewed badly when a wife criticizes her husband’s boss. While we need to be supportive of our husbands and their job frustrations, we need to be careful about sharing those frustrations and undermining their careers. (I say that as one who tries to follow my own advice.) God bless.
A great deal of truth to this, despite PhDs, glowing reports, etc. etc. etc. etc.
 
Many priests and religious were bound by obedience, if your husband is bound by obedience then that is the path to take.

Jesus told Saint Margaret Mary that the devil has no power over the obedient, after He was pleased that she didn’t go against her superiors in favor of Him.
 
Defer to the pastor, even when he’s wrong, unless obedience to higher authority calls for the contrary.
 
I call this the God Loves Sinners and God loves sin sermon of Vatican 2.

I sin but I avoid it because I love God and God Loves me. I am more lovable to God when I avoid sin.
 
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Nichevo:
What kind of response is that? Sue posted this in the hope that members of this board would read and identify with yet another orthodox voice being muted through the intolerance of the “progressive” elements of our Church. Speaking out when we perceive being wronged is absolutely within our rights as Catholics and more importantly, as children of God.

How is orthodoxy being muted ?​

And where is there is “progressivism” in this matter ?

(What’s wrong with “progressivism”, BTW ? )

As described, the whole thing sounds like nothing but a dispute over who does what - aren’t pastors meant to preach, BTW ?

As to Albert’s point: St. Paul preached, and preaching is a very important part of the Church;'s mission. Apparently, if Protestants do something the Church does, that thing becomes eeevil 🙂

St. Alphonsus Ligouri - to name but one of hundreds of Catholic preachers of great reputation in the Church - preached constantly. Very Protestant - just like that other Protestant, the Pope. Other Protestants include St Louis de Montfort, Cardinal Newman, rather a lot of Dominicans, most of the Fathers.

Why some Catholics have this phobia of preaching, I cannot imagine. I think sermons ought to be much longer - they could be an excellent counter to the trash the media throw at Christians.

People are for ever griping about bad religious instruction - so let sermons be long enough for the religious instruction to be drawn from the passage of the Bible appointed in the Sacramentary, and, applied in detail to the needs of the hearers. ##
 
Gottle of Geer said:
## How is orthodoxy being muted ?

And where is there is “progressivism” in this matter ?

(What’s wrong with “progressivism”, BTW ? )

What’s wrong with "progressivism? You are yanking my chain, aren’t you? :eek:
 
Gottle of Geer said:
## How is orthodoxy being muted ?

And where is there is “progressivism” in this matter ?

(What’s wrong with “progressivism”, BTW ? )

As described, the whole thing sounds like nothing but a dispute over who does what - aren’t pastors meant to preach, BTW ?

As to Albert’s point: St. Paul preached, and preaching is a very important part of the Church;'s mission. Apparently, if Protestants do something the Church does, that thing becomes eeevil 🙂

St. Alphonsus Ligouri - to name but one of hundreds of Catholic preachers of great reputation in the Church - preached constantly. Very Protestant - just like that other Protestant, the Pope. Other Protestants include St Louis de Montfort, Cardinal Newman, rather a lot of Dominicans, most of the Fathers.

Why some Catholics have this phobia of preaching, I cannot imagine. I think sermons ought to be much longer - they could be an excellent counter to the trash the media throw at Christians.

People are for ever griping about bad religious instruction - so let sermons be long enough for the religious instruction to be drawn from the passage of the Bible appointed in the Sacramentary, and, applied in detail to the needs of the hearers. ##

If you are indeed speaking of the Pope of Rome, you should be booted from these forums for such an inaccurate comment.
 
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Chickamauga:
And your source for this rather inflammatory accusation is…?

You would rather we listen to a “trained investigate journalist” like, oh, Dan Rather?

There is nothing “soothing” about Goodbye, Good Men.
thanks:rotfl: When I think of my brother who was in a Detroit seminary for one year, was told he was too “dedicated” to morality to be a priest, and was asked to leave… well he has not been back to the Church since - about 50 years. Goodbye, Good Men accurately describes many just like him.

So thanks for stopping me from getting bummed out again.

Pastor Dan Rather…http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif… now there is a scary thought - Rather keeping the seal of confession???
 
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Franciscum:
Be careful what you suggest to others. Goodbye God Men by Mike Rose isn’t always accurate, it dosen’t always give the entire story and it’s extremely inflammatory. Rose is a bookeeper by trade/education. He is not a trained investigative journalist and his writings tend to follow an extremely reductionist format. In short, while he produces soothing “mind candy”, he rarely provides the reader with a truly edifying experience.

I would much rather see books like The Courage to be Catholic by George Weigel recommded to to others.
I usually recommend the Changing Face of the Priesthood: the first half is an excellent description of how the very office and functions of the priesthood have changed and are viewed post council and the second half deals with the problems found within seminaries and during formation.
 
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Franciscum:
Denzinger’s Enchiridion Symbolorum is NOT a primary source. Primary Catholic sources include, but are not limited to: the Bible, the CCC, Church encyclicals, the Code of Canon Law, etc. etc.

You are giving inaccurate advice…
Denzinger’s contains the actual words the popes and the councils used in defining all the Catholic doctrines. Thus, it is THE primary source of all Catholic doctrines. The Bible is not, for the words in the bible are appealed to by any number of sects as the primary source of any number of their heterodox doctrines.

You are making inaccurate assertions. – Sincerely, Alice Ciprian the Traditional Catholic
 
Denzinger is a primary source. Just have to add support to this. It is a great primary source and when I had the chance to buy one a couple of years ago I was first in line.

It really makes life easy when Denzinger numbers are used. 👍
 
Detroit Sue:
He was not stopped until *his *pastor heard his homily.
That’s why I don’t attend that parish. I wouldn’t dare to do anything to jeopardize or scandalize my husband. Don’t worry - the feeling is mutual. The pastor doesn’t like me much, either. 😉
**I fully have felt God’s call to be a deacon, when I am the appropiate age, and I fully expect to be married at that point, for better or for worse. **

**I think I would feel totally abandoned if my wife didn’t attend the same parish I did, when i was serving, due to prideful conflicts between the pastor and the congregation. **

I think I would be more apt to make a change in my parish if I had my other half there supporting me, and making a change, or at least setting an example for the congregation.

**Maybe I have taken you wrong, and if i have I apologize, but haven’t you thought you might be more affective if you were there? I don’t see how not attending is helping anything. **

**Sometimes people screw up, including priests, and it takes a little love and insight from the flock to plant a seed of change. Thought Love and action, you could help plant that seed with your Husband, and better everyone in the parish for it. Just some food for thought. **

Let us pray for guidence in all situations where we must analyze and possible disagree with our authorative figures, and pray that the Truth prevails, which it ultimately does in the long run.

**Peace be to you all, **
Christ’s Love
 
Garg -

I don’t know how old you are, but your comment was very thoughtful and insightful. The diaconate program here will not even consider a man who has been married less than ten years because of the demands of the vocation. We’ve been married nearly 25 years, which helps. Sometimes it saddens both of us that we don’t worship together, but I understand (for the most part) his responsibility to his parish, and he understands that I get what I need from our home parish. God has been very good to us in that this aspect hasn’t been a strain in our marriage. It also helps that we do go to Eucharistic Adoration (sometimes together, sometimes not), and have an active prayer life.

I’m sure in no small part that the fact that we work together also makes it easier for us to not feel abandoned about the worship issue. We spend more time together than any married couple I know! 😃
 
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MamaGeek:
I suggest you read Goodbye, Good Men. I just checked it out from my public library. It would explain much about your husband being labeled as “rigid,” and help you understand why he may be reluctant to take a stand. (He may have been exposed to things you cannot even imagine.) I would be happy that he isn’t invited to any “shindigs.”

Peace,
MamaGeek
I didn’t like that book. I think there may be some truth to the point he was making, but I didn’t think that he really relied on good research. Yeah, some guy says he got kicked out of seminary for being too holy :insert eyerolling emoticon: I also think that the book just makes for ugly scandal and gossip. I know people who attend the author’s parish. They say things that really shock and upset me, like “Michael Rose has tapes of priests doing and saying very naughty things!” “Michael Rose says that Archbishop So-and-so is into whips and chains!”

I don’t know Michael Rose personally, but his wife and kids are very nice and I feel kinda crappy for saying anything against him. I don’t know if he’s really saying these terrible things about priests and bishops, but I do know that people SAY that he does, they quote him as some sort of authority, and I think that’s just scandalous.
 
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Franciscum:
Rose is a bookeeper by trade/education.

.
Actually, I think he’s an architect. Which makes his book on church architecture Ugly As Sin a little more palatable to me. Other than that, I agree with your opinion of Goodbye, Good Men
 
TheGarg said:
**I fully have felt God’s call to be a deacon, when I am the appropiate age, and I fully expect to be married at that point, for better or for worse. **

**I think I would feel totally abandoned if my wife didn’t attend the same parish I did, when i was serving, due to prideful conflicts between the pastor and the congregation. **

I think I would be more apt to make a change in my parish if I had my other half there supporting me, and making a change, or at least setting an example for the congregation.

**Maybe I have taken you wrong, and if i have I apologize, but haven’t you thought you might be more affective if you were there? I don’t see how not attending is helping anything. **

**Sometimes people screw up, including priests, and it takes a little love and insight from the flock to plant a seed of change. Thought Love and action, you could help plant that seed with your Husband, and better everyone in the parish for it. Just some food for thought. **

Let us pray for guidence in all situations where we must analyze and possible disagree with our authorative figures, and pray that the Truth prevails, which it ultimately does in the long run.

**Peace be to you all, **
Christ’s Love

I agree. I think the wife should totally be supportive behind the scenes for her husband. And by “behind the scenes” I mean in the pew or wherever. As confident as he may be in his activities in the church, he still needs you. Even if it is just for an encouraging look that lasts 3 seconds, that might make the difference in how he feels. I am a big advocate of husband and wife going to church together anyway, because my mom has had to go to church for a long time without my dad. He stopped going about 15 years ago. It is agonizing for her and I don’t think any husband or wife should feel “left” essentially from the person who is supposed to love them the most.

Katie
 
albert cipriani:
There you have it. Be more like him and you will not feel a need to vent.

Catholicism is a liturgical religion whereas Protestantism is a rhetorical religion. Your emphasis on sermons is rather Protestant of you. – Sincerely, Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic

**This lady was NOT talking about sermons. She was talking about the shameful treatment her husband has been enduring. **

Your remark…“Be more like him and you will not feel the need to vent” was not helpful at all…

 
Sue,

I am so sorry your husband is being treated this way, and will keep you both in my prayers.


**Has your husband tried to talk this out with the priest in question? **

I do admire him for sticking this assignment out…What character! You must be very proud of your guy.

BTW…Vent all you want…Sometimes it is the only thing to do!

Catholic Heart
 
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