My husband is changing!

[royal_archer]

True, but she might fear losing the extra income or training opportunities.

That is a rational discussion they will have to have. Only they can decide if the advantages of her working will out weigh the disadvantages. But they need to enter into that discussion with mutual respect and understanding that they are getting mutual respect. Bottom line is that in most cases men not wanting women to work is a sign of deep respect, not a lack of respect.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Hi everyone
When I married my husband almost two years ago he was not a Catholic. He converted some months later. Then he started listening to catholic podcasts and that is when he really started being interested in his new faith. He learned a lot and got fired up. But now the problem is that he is listening a lot to men-podcasts. I mean talks from men, for men, about mens’ role and position and it is always about the man’s Godgiven authority/role/leadership/responsibility etc etc. Now he suddenly also has the idea that if we have children I have to stay home for at least 3 years pro child. Because every good mom does that and if I don’t want to I am a bad mom who puts her own hobbys over her children… I really feel uncomfortable with all this stuff and especially being put into a box and fixed to a certain gender role.
I told him that I don’t want a “leader” but a partner and friend who will look into my eyes as an equal. We got into a fight about it. I don’t know what to think. Any thoughts would be welcome!
A

Why would you not want to take care of your own kids, at least until they’re in grade school?

I’d be scared to turn them over to daycare.

 

[Amber2]

Thank you all for your thoughts

Especially thanks to Salonika and Grace. You guys put words to my feelings.

Shin:“A child should be with its mother for the first three years of its life, it is harmful for the child to be deprived at these early ages.”

This is precisely the kind of claims that my husband makes. It seems like a repetition of someone elses words. I asked him to provide the evidence, he hasn’t yet.

I guess when it comes down to it I don’t want a leader but a partner. I guess the reason why I don’t want a leader is that he “uses it as a privilege to get his way already” I don’t see much love in that kind “leadership” and I certainly am not going to “support” it.
The world is full of men who thinks they are superior to women, I always made it clear that I was not looking for that kind of guy, so I hope it is just a fase.

 

[wanner47]

A child should be with its mother for the first three years of its life, it is harmful for the child to be deprived at these early ages.

My daughter has been in daycare since she was six months old; my son has been in daycare since he was two months old. And they are two of the happiest, sweetest children you’ll ever meet (or so I’ve been told).

I agree that it’s *best *for children to be with their mothers for the first three years, but I disagree that it’s necessarily harmful. Care to back up your assertion with evidence?

 

[Serap]

It’s also a completely different story when changes are made by one partner where they had previously been made jointly. I’d be wondering what the next unilateral change would be and whether I was still in a partnership.

Partnerships are only partnerships when that’s what they are. Playing games that the partnership is open, negotiable and equal when it is not is unfair.

This isn’t the issue here. But will he also want to always decide things for his children even when they are old enough and capable able to make decisions for themselves. That’s not being a good father in my view.

Think it’s not just a good idea but essential. You need to talk this over. He may not realise that he is in effect unilaterally making decisions that should be made by both of you. If so, he may need to be reminded that marriage is partnership and decisions need to be made by both partners.

I read your responses to my post. All I can say in response is that I have an amazing marriage and I consider myself very much to be an independent and intelligent woman. I don’t play games with my husband, but when he gets all cocky with me, I back down and let him think he’s in charge. There is nothing wrong with that. When things have cooled down, I will give him my opinion and we’ll talk about it in a loving way.

I was giving Amber another view to consider. Things are not always black and white.

I’m sure there are also times when my husband allows me to feel in charge to avoid an unecessary argument.

I don’t know if you are married, but marriages require a lot of flexibility and understanding.

Amber doesn’t need to begin punishing her husband for his views and we don’t know that he’s sexist by any means. Talking to someone can help the two of them figure things out and come to an agreement. There is no need to assume the worst of her husband at this point.

A true feminist knows that men and women are equal, but different. I will never be a man, nor do I want to be a man and vice versa.

 

[Serap]

Thank you all for your thoughts

Especially thanks to Salonika and Grace. You guys put words to my feelings.

Shin:“A child should be with its mother for the first three years of its life, it is harmful for the child to be deprived at these early ages.”

This is precisely the kind of claims that my husband makes. It seems like a repetition of someone elses words. I asked him to provide the evidence, he hasn’t yet.

I guess when it comes down to it I don’t want a leader but a partner. I guess the reason why I don’t want a leader is that he “uses it as a privilege to get his way already” I don’t see much love in that kind “leadership” and I certainly am not going to “support” it.
The world is full of men who thinks they are superior to women, I always made it clear that I was not looking for that kind of guy, so I hope it is just a fase.

Amber, be careful. Don’t bury your husband until you’ve given him a chance to work things out. Don’t assume he’s sexist and wants to be the “boss”. His view is traditional, yes, but it doesn’t mean he’s going to disrespect you or treat you badly in the future.

I suggest you read over a book that helped me a lot. It’s called Together Forever, A Catholic Guide to Marriage by Gregory Popcak. This booke helped me A LOT!!!

My husband and I have a traditional partnership marriage. Yes, a marriage can be a partnership and also be traditional.

Of course, you have to be true to yourself and be happy, but don’t assume that a traditional marriage cannot also be a happy partnership is all I’m trying to get across.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide and God bless.

 

[ac_claire]

Shin:“A child should be with its mother for the first three years of its life, it is harmful for the child to be deprived at these early ages.”

This is precisely the kind of claims that my husband makes. It seems like a repetition of someone elses words. I asked him to provide the evidence, he hasn’t yet.

Hi

I just had to comment on this. You are…demanding evidence that young children need as much attention and care from their mothers as possible? Think about that for a minute, seriously.

As for your husband…well, you married a man, and your man is growing up in his faith. A husband’s God-ordained responsibility is to serve and protect and provide for his family. Your husband is just now “getting it” and he’s embracing his role where so many other men try to escape it. Recognize this for what it is-- a gift from God-- and please don’t take it away from him.

It sounds to me like the way he’s getting these ideas across to you may be an issue…Maybe he’s not listening to your concerns and reservations, and it feels like he’s just steam-rolling over you in his zeal? Speaking together with your pastor as others have suggested may help, but first I would try to work it out between the two of you if possible. Make sure you don’t stop communicating. His “new convert fervor” may be legitimately tiresome to you, and I do sympathize with you on this. It may help you to just keep in mind that the zeal will subside with time and level off eventually.

Just my :twocents: , for what it’s worth. I’m going to add both of you to my prayers tonight. God bless.

 

[wanner47]

Hi

I just had to comment on this. You are…demanding evidence that young children need as much attention and care from their mothers as possible? Think about that for a minute, seriously.

No, I think she’s asking for evidence that daycare is *harmful *to young children.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I would argue that children need care from their parents, not solely from their mothers.

Wait till you have a kid and figure it out. In the meantime, talk to your priest. Your husband is just on fire, which is wonderful, but, speaking as a convert, we get a little carried away with it when we’re new

Catholic Church says this: Married couples must a) submit to EACH OTHER! b) submit to God first and FOREMOST c) be open to life d) be faithful and e) love each other, knowing that they take on a permanent lifestyle.

It does NOT say: a) you MUST have a big family, b) women MUST stay at home, c) men MUST be the sole breadwinners, or d) women must defer to their husbands about everything and never have the last word on anything.

Amber, I agree with you. When I marry, I want a partner, a companion, equal footing, not a “leader”. I have one father and while I love him, I don’t need a husband who acts like another father to me.

 

[Salonika]

Serap:

I was giving Amber another view to consider. Things are not always black and white.

No they are not. But I believe that some things in a relationship (marriage or otherwise) are essential. Three of these being honesty, openness and being prepared to negotiate.

Serap:

I read your responses to my post. All I can say in response is that I have an amazing marriage and I consider myself very much to be an independent and intelligent woman. I don’t play games with my husband, but when he gets all cocky with me, I back down and let him think he’s in charge. There is nothing wrong with that. When things have cooled down, I will give him my opinion and we’ll talk about it in a loving way.

I’m puzzled. I’m very puzzled. Are you saying I commented on you and your marriage in my reply or am I misunderstanding? I’ve reread my reply and I don’t see where I commented on anything relating to you personally.

Serap:

I don’t know if you are married, but marriages require a lot of flexibility and understanding.

No I’m not married. I knew from an early age that I did have the flexibility and understanding to live with, let alone to be married to someone.

Serap:

Amber doesn’t need to begin punishing her husband for his views and we don’t know that he’s sexist by any means. Talking to someone can help the two of them figure things out and come to an agreement. There is no need to assume the worst of her husband at this point.

From Amber’s post her husband has changed in ways that she does not find healthy for her. Do you see my agreeing that counselling or talking it over with someone else is punishing her husband. Do you see the others who agree in the same way? If so, why are we but not you being punishing.

We don’t know why her husband has changed – in some ways it doesn’t matter why, but it needs to be dealt with. How will be influenced by the reason – whether its sexism, adjusting to be part of a couple or something else. I hesitate to even mention possible reasons as it seems likely you’ll jump on me for even suggesting a reason, which, by the way, I did not do in my previous post.

serap:

A true feminist knows that men and women are equal, but different. I will never be a man, nor do I want to be a man and vice versa.

Not sure why you posted this comment. Is it as general comment or aimed at me personally. If it’s the later I am happy being a women, never wanted to be a man but there have been times (I was brought up in the 50’s-60’s) when I would have liked to do some of the things that many people then thought were for boys and men only. And also thought on picnics etc how much easier it was to be a boy when you need to go to loo.

 

[Salonika]

sanctamaria17:

I would argue that children need care from their parents, not solely from their mothers.

And also lots of contact with other adults eg grandparents and great-parents, aunts and uncles and grear uncles and great aunts, and close family friends.

sanctamaria:

Amber, I agree with you. When I marry, I want a partner, a companion, equal footing, not a “leader”. I have one father and while I love him, I don’t need a husband who acts like another father to me.

I would hope that all marriages would be on an equal footing. Okay in some areas one may lead, in others the other. But often this will be based on skills and personality and does not involve anyone making unilateral decisions that involve one or both partners. Close friendships need to be the same to thrive and be supportive.

 

[Serap]

No they are not. But I believe that some things in a relationship (marriage or otherwise) are essential. Three of these being honesty, openness and being prepared to negotiate.

I’m puzzled. I’m very puzzled. Are you saying I commented on you and your marriage in my reply or am I misunderstanding? I’ve reread my reply and I don’t see where I commented on anything relating to you personally.

No I’m not married. I knew from an early age that I did have the flexibility and understanding to live with, let alone to be married to someone.

From Amber’s post her husband has changed in ways that she does not find healthy for her. Do you see my agreeing that counselling or talking it over with someone else is punishing her husband. Do you see the others who agree in the same way? If so, why are we but not you being punishing.

We don’t know why her husband has changed – in some ways it doesn’t matter why, but it needs to be dealt with. How will be influenced by the reason – whether its sexism, adjusting to be part of a couple or something else. I hesitate to even mention possible reasons as it seems likely you’ll jump on me for even suggesting a reason, which, by the way, I did not do in my previous post.

Not sure why you posted this comment. Is it as general comment or aimed at me personally. If it’s the later I am happy being a women, never wanted to be a man but there have been times (I was brought up in the 50’s-60’s) when I would have liked to do some of the things that many people then thought were for boys and men only. And also thought on picnics etc how much easier it was to be a boy when you need to go to loo.

I’m not going to argue with you on CAF. I am pms’ing and you are spinning my words around

 

[gardenswithkids]

Thank you all for your thoughts

Especially thanks to Salonika and Grace. You guys put words to my feelings.

Shin:“A child should be with its mother for the first three years of its life, it is harmful for the child to be deprived at these early ages.”

This is precisely the kind of claims that my husband makes. It seems like a repetition of someone elses words. I asked him to provide the evidence, he hasn’t yet.

I guess when it comes down to it I don’t want a leader but a partner. I guess the reason why I don’t want a leader is that he “uses it as a privilege to get his way already” I don’t see much love in that kind “leadership” and I certainly am not going to “support” it.
The world is full of men who thinks they are superior to women, I always made it clear that I was not looking for that kind of guy, so I hope it is just a fase.

Amber, back when I was dating my husband, he expressed desire that his wife stay home with his children. I thought that meant he wanted to enslave me. Of course, I enlightened him.

After our first child, I went back to work full time almost right away. I pursued advancing my career for the next couple of years. That is one of my greatest regrets in my life. My husband discovered that he liked the income his wife brought in. We took nice vacations and bought nice things. When I wanted to cut back work and have another child, my enlightened husband was no longer very excited about the idea of loosing my income and becoming the sole provider.

Yet I found balancing family and career very difficult. My family, particularly my child, often suffered. Eventually I cut back to part time, which helped restore some balance. Several years later I stopped working outside the home altogether. Since staying home, the idea of having more children no longer seems quite so difficult and unaffordable. Our family size has grown significantly, and I will be eternallly gratefull for this.

My mindset has *completely *changed from the young childless woman who thought her cute date wanted to enslave women. It is an honor and privledge to stay home to care for my children.

That is only possible because my husband* is* my partner. Not all men who want women to stay home to care for children think men are superior to women–often they think women are superior to men. Many think their wives ability to care for his children is superior to his own ability or anyone else’s ability. That is what your husband probably believes, so please do not take it as an insult if he thinks you are the best thing for your child.

 

[mommamia]

This thread is not about whether or not women should or shouldn’t stay home with their children. That is something that only the parents can decide. Its about a man who changed, and his wife for whatever reason does not like the change. I admit, I would not like it if my husband changed the rules mid-game.

Marriage is a partnership, not one person deciding what the other will do. These things need to be talked out, with both sides listening to the other. Respect is important if you want your marriage to work. Mutual submission does not mean that he gets to make all the decisions.

IMHO it is better for your child to be with a sitter while you work, than home with a depressed resentful mother. Husbands have to understand that. Again I encourage the OP to find some Catholic counseling to help them both understand what the church expects in marriage.

 

[Leonius]

Hi everyone
When I married my husband almost two years ago he was not a Catholic. He converted some months later. Then he started listening to catholic podcasts and that is when he really started being interested in his new faith. He learned a lot and got fired up.

You husband sounds excellent you should count your blessings, chances are he will also listen to the Churches teaching concerning marriage and stick by you in sickness and in health for richer and poorer etc, rather than casting you aside as is permitted in all other religions and secular culture when you get on his nerves to much.

But now the problem is that he is listening a lot to men-podcasts. I mean talks from men, for men, about mens’ role and position and it is always about the man’s Godgiven authority/role/leadership/responsibility etc etc.

That is not a problem. Your husband is taking his faith and his duties to you which he took upon himself voluntarily when he made his marriage vows seriously, again you are blessed to have such a man.

Now he suddenly also has the idea that if we have children I have to stay home for at least 3 years pro child. Because every good mom does that and if I don’t want to I am a bad mom who puts her own hobbys over her children… I really feel uncomfortable with all this stuff and especially being put into a box and fixed to a certain gender role.
I told him that I don’t want a “leader” but a partner and friend who will look into my eyes as an equal. We got into a fight about it. I don’t know what to think. Any thoughts would be welcome!
A

I suggest you listen to the talks he has been listening to so you can understand where he is coming from, he has the correct Catholic understanding of marriage and family, while you seem to have the anti-catholic ideas of a secularist feminist. You were born a woman, God’s natural law reveals clearly that God intends mothers to care for their own babies that is why God gave you breasts which produce milk only when you become a mother, it is only by using artificial means to feed your child that it is possible for you to be separated from your child without the child starving to death, it is only through artificial means that you can live contrary to the natural law of God.

Something for you to consider, by asking you to do this your husband is telling you that he does respect you, and that he thinks you will make a superior mother to either himself or a stranger, why can’t you see that?

Perhaps it is you who needs to change and you who is not showing any respect to him, did that ever cross your mind?

 

[ac_claire]

No, I think she’s asking for evidence that daycare is *harmful *to young children.

Ah, I see. Well the thing about daycare is you have good daycares and bad daycares. The bad ones are most definitely harmful to children. And the good ones, well even still they are second best to a mother’s personal care in those early years.

IMO daycare should only be used as a last resort, if there is truly no other option. Not because it’s more convenient, or the family has gotten used to a two-income lifestyle, etc. These are excuses. Even having other family members help look after the child is preferable to having strangers do it.

When you have kids you have a responsibility to raise them and to make sacrifices for them. If there’s absolutely no other way, then daycare may have to be an option. But should you choose to have strangers look after your kids if it’s not absolutely necessary?

Amber, be careful. Don’t bury your husband until you’ve given him a chance to work things out. Don’t assume he’s sexist and wants to be the “boss”. His view is traditional, yes, but it doesn’t mean he’s going to disrespect you or treat you badly in the future.

Yes, exactly my thoughts. It sounds like he’s still trying to get his footing. Learning his responsibilites as a man and a husband-- it’s still new to him. But overall, this is a very positive development. Have mercy on your husband, be patient with him.

 

[Leonius]

Before birth, your child was sheltered, warmed and fed in an automatic process. Then his world abruptly changed: he became an individual thrust from his warm, protecting shelter and forced to encounter cold, hunger and suffering. Never again on earth will he enjoy the sense of peace and well-being that he experienced in the womb.

The newborn babe needs food and shelter, of course. But even more, he needs a substitute for the security he has lost. This need can be satisfied in a physical way at first–for instance, when he is held close to his mother’s body. Later, as he develops a sense of physical freedom as an individual, it must be supplied psychologically through love.

In his book “Your Child’s World,” Dr. Robert Odenwald, the psychiatrist, states that your child’s need for security will be the most important part of your relationship with him. His behaviour in later life will reflect whether you have provided or denied it, and how much maturity he acquires as an adult will depend directly upon how much security you give him in his early years. “You can best foster a feeling of security in your infant or young child by giving him uniform, sympathetic care,” Dr. Odenwald states. **“Paying loving attention to his needs, like holding him and rocking him, creates a steadfast continuity which makes him feel secure. One of the first things you will discover about your child is his urgent demand for consistency. Take him from the crib to which he has become accustomed, change some characteristic of his feeding’s, misplace his favourite toy, get someone new to care for him for a short period, and he may wail for hours. Is this an early evidence of perverseness on his part? No. It is evidence of his desire for security and his deep unhappiness when it is not provided for him.”
**
As your child develops, you can make him secure by constantly letting him know that you are interested in him as a person, and that you want him and love him."

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Looks like I got to deffend us men a bit…

(No that this applies in this case but it might)

My wife will occasionally go out of her way to do what she thinks is right to her own detriment. Occasionally I have to be forcefull to tell her to relax and let me. For instance moving furniture. Just because she can do it does not mean she should have to do it. The same thing goes for men with women working. No wife should have to work. No wife should feel compelled to be a bread winner, especially when young kids are involved. It is a man’s responsibility and obligation. Sometimes women wory and feel like the have to work or do other things. Sometimes women need the reasurance that they are truly free from any obligation. Men do this by ordering a woman not to help. If a husband orders a wife to sit down while he cooks dinner, women are not offended, why are women offended when a man wants to fullfill his obligation to provide a home for his wife?

I have to agree with you here, even though we may be in the minority.

The women I know with young kids who work HATE it. They do so out of economic necessity, or what they thought was economic necessity.

A couple of them even said the heck with it, and quit their jobs, cutting back in other ways. They tell me it’s tough but they want to be there for their kids, and not place them into day care. The way people suggest day care all too casually give me the shivers.

Who wants minimum-wage strangers looking after their precious little ones?

 

[mommamia]

Just wondering if anyone can provide a link to where the Church says that women must stay home with their children?

 

[sanctamaria17]

There is none.

Point is, her husband can’t suddenly change the rules. They’re a married couple, not a father and his teenage daughter. They need to talk about this and pray about this. Maybe they need counseling. Maybe they should have a child first and then decide.

St. Gianna was a doctor, her husband was an engineer, they both worked when they had kids, I dare anyone to call this woman a terrible mother, considering the sacrifice she made for her youngest daughter.