My husband's stepmother destroyed our family....

[EasterJoy]

…she’d stay in the bedroom while we stayed in the living room. It was hard to get two words in at times because she would continuously come out in the living room and interrupt or she’d yell from the bedroom or bathroom at my FIL, trying to pick some sort of fight with him making him feel bad for wanting to visit with us. We would take him out somewhere for example dinner; and she would text his phone the entire time. He once came to our house for 45 minutes. In those 45 minutes she texted his phone 7 times. He wanted to stay longer but had to go back home because she wouldn’t leave him alone…

Do we need to say it again? This is not the way a normal person acts when they are angry. This is beyond being a jerk or a pain in the neck or having “anger management issues.” OP, correct me if I’m wrong–is this not is how people act when they are falling into dementia? Do you not feel as if you have fallen down Alice’s rabbit hole when you have to be around this couple?

You are describing the equivalent of a demented person not only not getting treatment, but running a household and dictating what is and is not normal. The lunatic is running the asylum. (I would not be surprised to find that this is literally what you are describing…)

The FIL is not doing what a normal person would do when confronted with this kind of behavior, either. He is worried about getting yelled at? Her behavior is so extreme that if a previously-normal person had done it, some of us would be calling 9-11 because we’d be afraid the person we knew had some kind of an emergency brain issue. If this were the norm, we’d be getting away from this person as quickly as possible. We’d certainly have them blocked from our cell phones.

I cannot imagine how anyone can suggest not cutting this woman off, except visiting her without any children along after she is in some controlled situation–as in, some kind of facility. Even then, if she acted like this I’d have to leave, so she wouldn’t be agitated. The last thing in the world I would do is to pretend in any way that her behavior can be tolerated. She wouldn’t be allowed to act that way in a public place. The manager would have to insist that she leave. Ushers would have to escort her out of a church. There would be no choice.

While it is not true that a frog put into very gradually heated water will stay in it until he cooks, rather than jumping out, it is true that people will withstand an ever-increasing level of insult and grow to tolerate what they never would have tolerated without that preparation. The FIL has learned to take far too much abuse for the sake of avoiding conflict over his lifetime. If he doesn’t “unlearn” that tolerance, he will no sooner be out of this relationship than he will be in another. There are only so many who will take this kind of treatment. It doesn’t take radar for these poor souls to be found and cornered by those who feel entitled to dish this abuse out.

I feel sorry for him, but you can’t help him by acting as if her behavior is OK. That’s too much to ask.

 

[PrincessRenae]

Just wanted to say that I understand how the OP feels completely. In fact, it’s almost like she’s describing our lives. We’ve always had problems with my fiance’s stepmother. She causes drama, gets angry at the tiniest and most meaningless comments, and just generally seems to have no boundaries, even though my fiance is not close to her and does not consider her a maternal figure at all. I’ve had the worst time handling her emotional outbursts and I am trying my best to handle it as a good Christian would, but I definitely don’t have all the answers.

Will you continue to keep her out of your lives, especially with the baby? My friend sent me an article about how to deal with people with borderline personality and it made a lot of sense to me. If I can dig it up I will send it to you.

 

[jazzy0710]

Do we need to say it again? This is not the way a normal person acts when they are angry. This is beyond being a jerk or a pain in the neck or having “anger management issues.” OP, correct me if I’m wrong–is this not is how people act when they are falling into dementia? Do you not feel as if you have fallen down Alice’s rabbit hole when you have to be around this couple?

You are describing the equivalent of a demented person not only not getting treatment, but running a household and dictating what is and is not normal. The lunatic is running the asylum. (I would not be surprised to find that this is literally what you are describing…)

The FIL is not doing what a normal person would do when confronted with this kind of behavior, either. He is worried about getting yelled at? Her behavior is so extreme that if a previously-normal person had done it, some of us would be calling 9-11 because we’d be afraid the person we knew had some kind of an emergency brain issue. If this were the norm, we’d be getting away from this person as quickly as possible. We’d certainly have them blocked from our cell phones.

I cannot imagine how anyone can suggest not cutting this woman off, except visiting her without any children along after she is in some controlled situation–as in, some kind of facility. Even then, if she acted like this I’d have to leave, so she wouldn’t be agitated. The last thing in the world I would do is to pretend in any way that her behavior can be tolerated. She wouldn’t be allowed to act that way in a public place. The manager would have to insist that she leave. Ushers would have to escort her out of a church. There would be no choice.

While it is not true that a frog put into very gradually heated water will stay in it until he cooks, rather than jumping out, it is true that people will withstand an ever-increasing level of insult and grow to tolerate what they never would have tolerated without that preparation. The FIL has learned to take far too much abuse for the sake of avoiding conflict over his lifetime. If he doesn’t “unlearn” that tolerance, he will no sooner be out of this relationship than he will be in another. There are only so many who will take this kind of treatment. It doesn’t take radar for these poor souls to be found and cornered by those who feel entitled to dish this abuse out.

I feel sorry for him, but you can’t help him by acting as if her behavior is OK. That’s too much to ask.

Thanks very much again for your feedback. I found it very helpful and it also gave me a little chuckle. Especially, “lunatic running the asylum” LOL!

 

[jazzy0710]

Just wanted to say that I understand how the OP feels completely. In fact, it’s almost like she’s describing our lives. We’ve always had problems with my fiance’s stepmother. She causes drama, gets angry at the tiniest and most meaningless comments, and just generally seems to have no boundaries, even though my fiance is not close to her and does not consider her a maternal figure at all. I’ve had the worst time handling her emotional outbursts and I am trying my best to handle it as a good Christian would, but I definitely don’t have all the answers.

Will you continue to keep her out of your lives, especially with the baby? My friend sent me an article about how to deal with people with borderline personality and it made a lot of sense to me. If I can dig it up I will send it to you.

Hello there,

I find it very ironic that you bring up “Borderline Personality Disorder” because that had actually crossed the minds of my husband, myself, and my SIL at one point and the more research we did on it the more sense it made. I also spoke to a couple of therapists about it. One of them was my own, a man, and the other was a lady that attends my church. They both claimed that they would have to sit with her to really make the determination but based on what I had described to them about her behavior they both agreed that it’s extremely likely.

Will we continue to keep her out of our lives? YES! Most certainly. We don’t want that kind of unstability around our son. Both of us also got to a point that we just couldn’t handle this woman. Our choice was not based on the last encounter that we had with her. However that encounter was the last straw that broke the camel’s back.

She has been a probem since the day she and my FIL returned from Las Vegas after getting married 3 years ago. At that time, my husband was 29, and my SIL was 25. She expected the both of them to call her Mom and would always sign cards and messages, love mom and dad. My husband had a very long chat with her alone one day about how that was way too much to ask. He explained that he has a Mother and that’s the one he calls Mom. He told her that he couldn’t speak for his sister and it was her choice what she wanted to do but he was not going to. She was supposed to have said ok and then a few months later she and my FIL made another trip to Las Vegas. When they came back, she had tattooed not only her own 2 children’s names on her chest but my husband and SIL’s as well. My husband was very shocked and I excused myself and went into the washroom and put my hand over my mouth, careful not to be heard, laughing my head off.

According to my FIL she was supposed to have been very depressed over the fact that he didn’t want to call her Mom. When we heard this, we just had a feeling that things would get worse and they have.

We’re just taking things one day at a time for now. Trying to just stay focused on our main priority, our son.

 

[PrincessRenae]

Yeah, she exploded on us in January of this year because she was mad at me on Christmas eve over something I said and that I didn’t bring up her new grandchild. She had my fiance’s father call him to complain about me behind my back. That was the last straw for me. I let her know exactly how I feel about her and told her I didn’t want to talk to her again. I know I didn’t handle it in the best way, but honestly, it’s been a lot easier to not deal with her. I know it makes it awkward for my fiance because his father just does whatever his wife tells him to, but I just can’t handle her. I’m just better off staying away from her because I know she will find a way to manipulate us or manipulate my fiance’s brother.

It’s always been strange to me how people can go on and on about how upset they are, but are unwilling to discuss and have a rational conversation to resolve the conflict. I’ve never understood that.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yeah, she exploded on us in January of this year because she was mad at me on Christmas eve over something I said and that I didn’t bring up her new grandchild. She had my fiance’s father call him to complain about me behind my back. That was the last straw for me. I let her know exactly how I feel about her and told her I didn’t want to talk to her again. I know I didn’t handle it in the best way, but honestly, it’s been a lot easier to not deal with her. I know it makes it awkward for my fiance because his father just does whatever his wife tells him to, but I just can’t handle her. I’m just better off staying away from her because I know she will find a way to manipulate us or manipulate my fiance’s brother.

It’s always been strange to me how people can go on and on about how upset they are, but are unwilling to discuss and have a rational conversation to resolve the conflict. I’ve never understood that.

I think some of them have borderline personality disorders. I don’t know what they all have. Maybe some are perfectly capable of controlling themselves and don’t do it because no one has ever made them do it. Maybe they stay in an immature state because no one ever required more of them. Maybe it is far more miserable inside their heads than to have to deal with their outside behavior and maybe they are perfectly contented with a life where they are free to terrorize anybody in their limited social circle that they want to terrorize. Who knows?

I just know that if somebody violates even the most minimal boundaries of decent behavior, they need to be ushered out of the inner social circle–“treat them as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.” If they keep finding themselves ushered out and they want to change but can’t do it by their own ability to control themselves, they need to get help. If they won’t get help, then that’s their choice. You can’t force someone to put boundaries on themselves. You can force them to stay outside the boundaries that are yours to enforce. When it comes to children and even sometimes when it comes to yourself, depending on how bad the behavior is, you do have a positive duty to enforce those boundaries that you have the authority to enforce. Nobody ought to make you apologize for that with some wrong-headed idea that you’re not a real Christian unless you are the whole world’s doormat. Turning the other cheek is something done while you’re still standing up.

 

[jazzy0710]

Yeah, she exploded on us in January of this year because she was mad at me on Christmas eve over something I said and that I didn’t bring up her new grandchild. She had my fiance’s father call him to complain about me behind my back. That was the last straw for me. I let her know exactly how I feel about her and told her I didn’t want to talk to her again. I know I didn’t handle it in the best way, but honestly, it’s been a lot easier to not deal with her. I know it makes it awkward for my fiance because his father just does whatever his wife tells him to, but I just can’t handle her. I’m just better off staying away from her because I know she will find a way to manipulate us or manipulate my fiance’s brother.

It’s always been strange to me how people can go on and on about how upset they are, but are unwilling to discuss and have a rational conversation to resolve the conflict. I’ve never understood that.

Funny that you mentioned Christmas Eve. My husband’s stepmother caused a bunch of drama on Christmas Eve as well. Truthfully we probably should have cut her off then. She was supposed to have got into some kind of fight with her own daughter over the phone and because of that, she was making everyone else miserable. She was hiding in the bedroom and wouldn’t come out. My husband and I were trying to give her a gift which was basically a bib with “I love Grandma on it” as that was the day we decided to make the formal announcement. She wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. We were trying to visit with my FIL in the living room and she kept texting his phone from the bedroom to bring her food, etc. It was ridiculous. Then she had the nerve to text me on Christmas Day during dinner to tell me again that she isn’t the real Grandmother and to come pick the bib up. Then for the next nine months she wouldn’t talk to me at all. Never called or anything to ask how I was doing. If my husband dropped by their house she would tell him to tell me she said hi or would ask how I was. He ignored her for a while until one day he got annoyed and he snapped on her telling her that he wasn’t a messenger and that her childish foolishness needed to stop and if she really wanted to know to call me herself. Then she wouldn’t talk to him for a few months either.

I’m glad I’m not alone in this

 

[EasterJoy]

Here’s a checklist from Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder

Are you in a relationship with a person with Borderline Personality Disorder?

• Do you find yourself concealing what you really think or feel because you’re afraid of the other person’s reaction, and it just doesn’t seem worth the horrible fight or hurt feelings that will surely follow? Has this become so automatic that you have a hard time even identifying what you think or feel?
• Feeling like you’re walking on eggshells much of the time, and that no matter what you say or do, it will be twisted and used against you.
• Being blamed and criticized for everything wrong in the relationship, even when it makes no logical sense.
• Being the focus of intense, even violent rages that make no logical sense, alternating with periods when the other person acts perfectly normal and loving.
• Feeling like you’re being manipulated, controlled or even lied to sometimes.
• Feeling like the person you care about sees you as either all good or all bad, with nothing in between. Wishing that the person would act like they used to, when they seemed to love you and think you were perfect and everything was wonderful.
• Feeling like the other person is like “Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde”: one moment a loving, caring person; another moment someone who seems so vicious you barely recognize them. Wondering which one is “real.” Hoping that it’s a phase that will go away – but it doesn’t. Feeling like you’re on an emotional roller coaster with high highs (things are incredible, fantastic) and very low lows (feeling of despair, depression, grief for the relationship you thought you had).
• Being afraid to ask for things in the relationship because you will be told you’re too demanding or there is something wrong with you. Being told that your needs are wrong or not important.
• Wondering if you’re losing your grip on reality because the other person is always putting down or denying your point of view. Plus, the other person often acts just fine in front of other people, so no one believes you when you explain what’s going on.
• Feeling that nothing you do is ever right, and when you do manage to do what the other person wants, suddenly they change their expectations. The rules keep changing and no matter what you do, you can’t win. Feeling helpless and trapped.
• Being accused of doing things you never did and saying things you never said. Feeling misunderstood a great deal of the time, and when you try to explain, the other person doesn’t believe you.
• Being constantly put down, yet when you try to leave the relationship the other person tries to prevent you from leaving in a variety of ways – anything from declarations of love and promises to change to outright implicit or explicit threats such as “you’ll never see the children again” and “no one but me will ever love you.”
• Having a hard time planning anything (social engagement, etc.) because of the other person’s moodiness, impulsiveness or unpredictability. Sometimes, even making excuses for their behavior to other people – or trying to convince yourself that this is normal behavior.
• Reading the above list and thinking “Oh my God, I had no idea that other people were going through the same thing and that there is a name for this: Borderline Personality Disorder.”

 

[EasterJoy]

cont.

Emotional abuse victims can become so convinced that they are worthless that they believe that no one else could want them. They stay in abusive situations because they believe they have nowhere else to go. Their ultimate fear is being all alone.

Following are types of emotional abuse:

DOMINATION: Someone wants to control your every action. They have to have their own way, and will resort to threats to get it. When you allow someone else to dominate you, you can lose respect for yourself.

VERBAL ASSAULTS: berating, belittling, criticizing, name calling, screaming, threatening, excessive blaming, and using sarcasm and humiliation. Blowing your flaws out of proportion and making fun of you in front of others. Over time, this type of abuse erodes your sense of self confidence and self-worth.

ABUSIVE EXPECTATIONS: The other person places unreasonable demands on you and wants you to put everything else aside to tend to their needs. It could be a demand for constant attention, frequent sex, or a requirement that you spend all your free time with the person. But no matter how much you give, it’s never enough. You are subjected to constant criticism, and you are constantly berated because you don’t fulfill all this person’s needs.

EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL: The other person plays on your fear, guilt, compassion, values, or other “hot buttons” to get what they want. This could include threats to end the relationship, the “cold shoulder,” or use other fear tactics to control you.

UNPREDICTABLE RESPONSES: Drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts (This is part of the definition of BPD). Whenever someone in your life reacts very differently at different times to the same behavior from you, tells you one thing one day and the opposite the next, or likes something you do one day and hates it the next, you are being abused with unpredictable responses.
This behavior is damaging because it puts you always on edge. You’re always waiting for the other shoe to drop, and you can never know what’s expected of you. You must remain hypervigilant, waiting for the other person’s next outburst or change of mood.

An alcoholic or drug abuser is likely to act this way. Living with someone like this is tremendously demanding and anxiety provoking, causing the abused person to feel constantly frightened, unsettled and off balance.

GASLIGHTING: The other person may deny that certain events occurred or that certain things were said. You know differently. The other person may deny your perceptions, memory and very sanity. (If a borderline has been disassociating, they may indeed remember reality differently than you do.
Dissociation is the state in which, on some level or another, one becomes somewhat removed from “reality,” whether this be daydreaming, performing actions without being fully connected to their performance (“running on automatic”), or other, more disconnected actions. It is the opposite of “association” and involves the lack of association, usually of one’s identity, with the rest of the world.

CONSTANT CHAOS: The other person may deliberately start arguments and be in constant conflict with others. The person may be “addicted to drama” since it creates excitement. (Many non-BPs also are addicted to drama.)

 

[EasterJoy]

Here’s more information from The Emotionally Abused Woman: Overcoming Destructive Patterns and Reclaiming Yourself by Beverly Engel (with gender changes to address this to abused husbands). This may not be your FIL, OP, but it might. Keep both possibilities in mind:
*
If you are in an emotionally abusive relationship, you will need to learn how to take care of yourself. You will need to learn how to stop rescuing, to set your personal limits and boundaries, and how to be assertive.

One of the reasons you may have been so attractive to an emotionally abusive person is that it has been clear from the start that you could be manipulated into taking care of her, and furthermore, that her needs were more important than yours. One of the most important things you can do is to begin to put your own needs first.

If you learned as a child that your needs were unimportant, you may believe that taking care of yourself is a selfish act. But your highest responsibility is to yourself. When you take care of your own needs first, you will be able to be a genuinely caring, giving person, not a martyr. Although it will be uncomfortable at first, and you may be afraid that others won’t like you unless you are giving to them, keep trying.

Some types of people are attracted to people who are emotionally abusive. They complain, blame, and try to control. Yet they continue to allow others to hurt them. In reality, they are more comfortable complaining and feeling resentful than acknowledging how very hurt and angry they are. They push their thoughts and feelings out of awareness by focusing all their energy on other people. They stay busy so they won’t have to think about things and face reality. They ignore problems and pretend they aren’t happening. They pretend that things aren’t as bad as they really are.

The irony is that as much as a “codependent” feels responsibility for others and takes care of others, he believes deep down that other people are responsible for him. He blames others for his unhappiness and problems, and feels that it’s other people’s fault that he’s unhappy.

Another irony is that while he feels controlled by people and events, he himself is overly controlling. He is afraid of allowing other people to be who they are and of allowing events to happen naturally. An expert in knowing best how things should turn out and how people should behave, the codependent person tries to control others through threats, coercion, advice giving, helplessness, guilt, manipulation, or domination.*

 

[EasterJoy]

If someone has borderline personality disorder, it is not hopeless. They do have to want to learn how to control the symptoms of their disorder, and they do have to be willing to accept help.

mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/borderline-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20023204

If someone has an antisocial personality disorder, in which they feel no remorse for the chaos their impulsive choices and other behavioral symptoms cause, the chances for successful treatment are reportedly far lower. I have read that people who don’t feel empathy for those they hurt by their behavior are less motivated to change for the benefit of others.

There are other disorders such as bipolar disorder that can also result in highly chaotic social relationships.

This is all a bit of a moot point unless your FIL’s wife has ever expressed remorse or a willingness to change. If all she ever does in her “apologies” is to make excuses for herself or blame others for the chaos she causes, the chances that she’s going to get into therapy and work hard to change how she acts is obviously not very good. If she isn’t at fault, after all, why should SHE be the one who does the work? It is meant to point out that if your FIL’s wife has a major mental disorder such as these, he is in WAY over his head. He will never change her, and he may find her behaviors towards him only escalate. Whether or not she gets help for herself or not, encourage him to do it.

 

[jazzy0710]

Here’s a checklist from Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder

Are you in a relationship with a person with Borderline Personality Disorder?

• Feeling like you’re walking on eggshells much of the time, and that no matter what you say or do, it will be twisted and used against you.
• Being blamed and criticized for everything wrong in the relationship, even when it makes no logical sense.
• Being the focus of intense, even violent rages that make no logical sense, alternating with periods when the other person acts perfectly normal and loving.
• Feeling like you’re being manipulated, controlled or even lied to sometimes.
• Feeling like the person you care about sees you as either all good or all bad, with nothing in between. Wishing that the person would act like they used to, when they seemed to love you and think you were perfect and everything was wonderful.
• Feeling like the other person is like “Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde”: one moment a loving, caring person; another moment someone who seems so vicious you barely recognize them. Wondering which one is “real.” Hoping that it’s a phase that will go away – but it doesn’t. Feeling like you’re on an emotional roller coaster with high highs (things are incredible, fantastic) and very low lows (feeling of despair, depression, grief for the relationship you thought you had).
• Wondering if you’re losing your grip on reality because the other person is always putting down or denying your point of view. Plus, the other person often acts just fine in front of other people, so no one believes you when you explain what’s going on.
•• Being accused of doing things you never did and saying things you never said. Feeling misunderstood a great deal of the time, and when you try to explain, the other person doesn’t believe you.
• Being constantly put down, yet when you try to leave the relationship the other person tries to prevent you from leaving in a variety of ways – anything from declarations of love and promises to change to outright implicit or explicit threats such as “you’ll never see the children again” and “no one but me will ever love you.”
• Having a hard time planning anything (social engagement, etc.) because of the other person’s moodiness, impulsiveness or unpredictability. Sometimes, even making excuses for their behavior to other people – or trying to convince yourself that this is normal behavior.
."

Each one of these points above is her to a tea. Especially the difficulty planning things.

 

[jazzy0710]

If someone has borderline personality disorder, it is not hopeless. They do have to want to learn how to control the symptoms of their disorder, and they do have to be willing to accept help.

mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/borderline-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20023204

If someone has an antisocial personality disorder, in which they feel no remorse for the chaos their impulsive choices and other behavioral symptoms cause, the chances for successful treatment are reportedly far lower. I have read that people who don’t feel empathy for those they hurt by their behavior are less motivated to change for the benefit of others.

There are other disorders such as bipolar disorder that can also result in highly chaotic social relationships.

This is all a bit of a moot point unless your FIL’s wife has ever expressed remorse or a willingness to change. If all she ever does in her “apologies” is to make excuses for herself or blame others for the chaos she causes, the chances that she’s going to get into therapy and work hard to change how she acts is obviously not very good. If she isn’t at fault, after all, why should SHE be the one who does the work? It is meant to point out that if your FIL’s wife has a major mental disorder such as these, he is in WAY over his head. He will never change her, and he may find her behaviors towards him only escalate. Whether or not she gets help for herself or not, encourage him to do it.

She attempted help in the past and then stopped because she felt that there was nothing they could do for her. That was a few years ago. Not sure how many.

She is apparently going to therapy right now and has been for a few months but nothing seems to have changed.

As for apologies it varies. I know myself the longest I have gone without talking to her is a little over a year. Of all of the times she has done stuff she has only ever apologized to me in person once. All of her other apologies were done over the computer.

I totally agree that my FIL is way in over his head. It’s hard to know what it’s going to take for him to realize that this woman needs to go.

 

[EasterJoy]

She attempted help in the past and then stopped because she felt that there was nothing they could do for her. That was a few years ago. Not sure how many.

She is apparently going to therapy right now and has been for a few months but nothing seems to have changed.

As for apologies it varies. I know myself the longest I have gone without talking to her is a little over a year. Of all of the times she has done stuff she has only ever apologized to me in person once. All of her other apologies were done over the computer.

I totally agree that my FIL is way in over his head. It’s hard to know what it’s going to take for him to realize that this woman needs to go.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive, but a borderline personality is better than a sociopathic one. The borderline personality may have to figure out how to get around the habit of their low impulse control, but at least they have an emotional conscience that lets them feel a reason to want to improve. (From what I gather, sociopaths only have intellectual consciences. Whatever sense of right and wrong they have is all in their intellect. If they don’t believe that, they have no consciences at all.)

I hope she does figure out how to manage her personality disorder. I do not envy her the psychological hand that she has been dealt. In her position, however, if I were seeing the situation clearly I would not fault you for refusing to tolerate intolerable behavior, nor for enforcing natural consequences for repeated egregious behavior. It would be a good thing to give your dad a pathway back to having a relationship with you. Insisting that he take care of himself as any counsellor would tell him to do is not uncharitable or unkind, nor is enforcing consequences for failing to do that.

He has the power to get out of this situation. You can’t get him out; only he can. Charity doesn’t require you to enable him in his choice to stay in it. I think in your situation I’d want advice from a domestic violence shelter about how to be in a position to help him make the decision to escape his abuser. I’d also make it clear to him that having to witness his wife abusing him is emotionally damaging. You want to be there for him, but you won’t expose your son to her abuse of anyone, not at all, nor expose yourself to her abusive outbursts any more. I’d say that goes double for his son, who has seen him accept abuse and manipulation far beyond too much for one lifetime. Enough is enough.

 

[jazzy0710]

The two aren’t mutually exclusive, but a borderline personality is better than a sociopathic one. The borderline personality may have to figure out how to get around the habit of their low impulse control, but at least they have an emotional conscience that lets them feel a reason to want to improve. (From what I gather, sociopaths only have intellectual consciences. Whatever sense of right and wrong they have is all in their intellect. If they don’t believe that, they have no consciences at all.)

I hope she does figure out how to manage her personality disorder. I do not envy her the psychological hand that she has been dealt. In her position, however, if I were seeing the situation clearly I would not fault you for refusing to tolerate intolerable behavior, nor for enforcing natural consequences for repeated egregious behavior. It would be a good thing to give your dad a pathway back to having a relationship with you. Insisting that he take care of himself as any counsellor would tell him to do is not uncharitable or unkind, nor is enforcing consequences for failing to do that.

He has the power to get out of this situation. You can’t get him out; only he can. Charity doesn’t require you to enable him in his choice to stay in it. I think in your situation I’d want advice from a domestic violence shelter about how to be in a position to help him make the decision to escape his abuser. I’d also make it clear to him that having to witness his wife abusing him is emotionally damaging. You want to be there for him, but you won’t expose your son to her abuse of anyone, not at all, nor expose yourself to her abusive outbursts any more. I’d say that goes double for his son, who has seen him accept abuse and manipulation far beyond too much for one lifetime. Enough is enough.

Thank you very much for all of your (name removed by moderator)ut. It’s been very helpful

We’ll likely be able to have a relationship with my FIL again, it’s just going to take time. The unfortunate part is that we can’t really go up to his house because she’s unpredictable. We’ve told him he’s welcome here but it seems that he is afraid of coming for what he’ll have to deal with later. We can’t really meet him anywhere because she’ll call his phone or text it every 5 minutes and if he were to turn it off I wouldn’t put it past her to either come where we are and make a scene or lock him out of his house once he got back. She’s nuts like that.

My husband and I sincerely hope that she’ll learn how to manage her disorder as well. The unfortunate thing is that it may end up taking divorce or loosing all of the connections she has in order for her to clue in.

She’s a very spiteful kind of person and very bitter and hard headed and this is what worries my husband and I if his Father finally did get the courage to file for divorce. She is the kind of person that won’t go down without a fight and we know she will drag it on for as long as she can. We can honestly see the judge ruling in her favor and my FIL loosing everything because she has nothing and no where to go. My FIL could come here with us if he needed to or he could move in with his 2 brothers if need be as well. We really think the judge would give her the house because her own 2 children wouldn’t dare take her in because they want nothing to do with her and she doesn’t have any other family. I would hate to see that man loose everything that he’s worked so hard to keep. The other thing that could happen is she could run to the local woman’s shelter and say he’s abusing her. Many women here do that. Many women are truthful in that place and many of them lie because they can get away with it and it’s never investigated. If that were the case the shelter would back her up all the way, especially in the court and he could end up having to pay spousal support out the ying yang.

So really he’s darned if he does and darned if he doesn’t. Definitely a situation I wouldn’t want to be in for sure.

As the days go by, events that have occurred in the last 3 years have really been playing on mine and my husband’s minds.

I’ve recalled the evening that I really lost all respect for her. If it wasn’t for the fact that it was my husband’s grandmother’s home; I would have slapped her right across the mouth for disrespecting his grandmother the way she did.

My husband’s grandparents (FIL’s parents) were married for 68 years when his grandfather died in 2011. Myself, my husband, his Father, and the Stepmother were over at her house one afternoon. The Grandfather had only been passed on for a little over a month and the Grandmother was still having a hard time with grief. She began crying and then the stepmother says in a very sarcastic, rude, droll tone “Come on now, it’s been over a month now and we didn’t come down here to hear you do this”

I honestly don’t know what made me more sick. The fact that she said that or the fact that my cowardly FIL didn’t say a word to her.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you very much for all of your (name removed by moderator)ut. It’s been very helpful

We’ll likely be able to have a relationship with my FIL again, it’s just going to take time. The unfortunate part is that we can’t really go up to his house because she’s unpredictable. We’ve told him he’s welcome here but it seems that he is afraid of coming for what he’ll have to deal with later. We can’t really meet him anywhere because she’ll call his phone or text it every 5 minutes and if he were to turn it off I wouldn’t put it past her to either come where we are and make a scene or lock him out of his house once he got back. She’s nuts like that.

My husband and I sincerely hope that she’ll learn how to manage her disorder as well. The unfortunate thing is that it may end up taking divorce or loosing all of the connections she has in order for her to clue in.

She’s a very spiteful kind of person and very bitter and hard headed and this is what worries my husband and I if his Father finally did get the courage to file for divorce. She is the kind of person that won’t go down without a fight and we know she will drag it on for as long as she can. We can honestly see the judge ruling in her favor and my FIL loosing everything because she has nothing and no where to go. My FIL could come here with us if he needed to or he could move in with his 2 brothers if need be as well. We really think the judge would give her the house because her own 2 children wouldn’t dare take her in because they want nothing to do with her and she doesn’t have any other family. I would hate to see that man loose everything that he’s worked so hard to keep. The other thing that could happen is she could run to the local woman’s shelter and say he’s abusing her. Many women here do that. Many women are truthful in that place and many of them lie because they can get away with it and it’s never investigated. If that were the case the shelter would back her up all the way, especially in the court and he could end up having to pay spousal support out the ying yang.

So really he’s darned if he does and darned if he doesn’t. Definitely a situation I wouldn’t want to be in for sure.

As the days go by, events that have occurred in the last 3 years have really been playing on mine and my husband’s minds.

I’ve recalled the evening that I really lost all respect for her. If it wasn’t for the fact that it was my husband’s grandmother’s home; I would have slapped her right across the mouth for disrespecting his grandmother the way she did.

My husband’s grandparents (FIL’s parents) were married for 68 years when his grandfather died in 2011. Myself, my husband, his Father, and the Stepmother were over at her house one afternoon. The Grandfather had only been passed on for a little over a month and the Grandmother was still having a hard time with grief. She began crying and then the stepmother says in a very sarcastic, rude, droll tone “Come on now, it’s been over a month now and we didn’t come down here to hear you do this”

I honestly don’t know what made me more sick. The fact that she said that or the fact that my cowardly FIL didn’t say a word to her.

Does your local library have a book titled, “The Sociopath Next Door”?

Also, how old is your dad? If he is over 65, I’d call the local county or state authority and ask the elder advocate about your concerns. I doubt very much whether she’s doing something criminal, but you might be able to find some resources for him, on account of her attempts to control him socially. (I don’t know what, but I have to think he won’t leave his abuser without some sort of outside help encouraging him to see it as abuse–maybe someone who is not a family member.)

 

[jazzy0710]

Does your local library have a book titled, “The Sociopath Next Door”?

Also, how old is your dad? If he is over 65, I’d call the local county or state authority and ask the elder advocate about your concerns. I doubt very much whether she’s doing something criminal, but you might be able to find some resources for him, on account of her attempts to control him socially. (I don’t know what, but I have to think he won’t leave his abuser without some sort of outside help encouraging him to see it as abuse–maybe someone who is not a family member.)

I could check the library but there’s a chance I may have to go to one of the book stores for something like that.

My Father in law is 55. His wife is around 52 or maybe 53.

My husband and I and my sister in law as well as some of his friends have all tried talking to him about the way she treats him telling him that it’s not right. He always has an excuse. Everything from “She’s just really sensitive” to “Well she had a hard life and her Dad wasn’t good to her” or he’ll go on about all of her good qualities or he’ll ask us what we expect him to do because he can’t afford another divorce again.

 

[EasterJoy]

I could check the library but there’s a chance I may have to go to one of the book stores for something like that.

My Father in law is 55. His wife is around 52 or maybe 53.

My husband and I and my sister in law as well as some of his friends have all tried talking to him about the way she treats him telling him that it’s not right. He always has an excuse. Everything from “She’s just really sensitive” to “Well she had a hard life and her Dad wasn’t good to her” or he’ll go on about all of her good qualities or he’ll ask us what we expect him to do because he can’t afford another divorce again.

I guess I’d say, “Dad, how would you feel if either of us had a husband who treated us as she treats you? Would you say it is OK for him to do this because he had a bad childhood? Would you say that being sensitive is an OK reason to treat guests as she does? If you are going to stay, get some counselling and learn how to say ‘no’ to unacceptable behavior. She is not going to change without some help in putting boundaries on herself.”

Martha Stout, author of “Sociopath Next Door” wrote this in her book:

The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness.* It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy.**

I first learned this when I was still a graduate student in psychology and had the opportunity to interview a court-referred patient the system had already identified as a “psychopath.” He was not violent, preferring instead to swindle people out of their money with elaborate investment scams. Intrigued by this individual and what could possibly motivate him…I asked, “What is important to you in your life? What do you want more than anything else?” I thought he might say “getting money,” or “staying out of jail,” which were the activities to which he devoted most of his time. Instead, without a moment’s hesitation, he replied, “Oh, that’s easy. What I like better than anything else is when people feel sorry for me. The thing I really want more than anything else out of life is people’s pity.”

I was astonished, and more than a little put off. I think I would have liked him better if he had said “staying out of jail,” or even “getting money.” Also, I was mystified. Why would this man — why would anyone — wish to be pitied, let alone wish to be pitied above all other ambitions? I could not imagine. But now, after twenty-five years of listening to victims, I realize there is an excellent reason for the sociopathic fondness for pity. As obvious as the nose on one’s face, and just as difficult to see without the help of a mirror, the explanation is that good people will let pathetic individuals get by with murder, so to speak, and therefore any sociopath wishing to continue with his game, whatever it happens to be, should play repeatedly for none other than pity.

More than admiration — more even than fear — pity from good people is carte blanche. When we pity, we are, at least for the moment, defenseless, and like so many of the other positive human characteristics that bind us together in groups…our emotional vulnerability when we pity is used against us…*

 

[90Domer]

I highly recommend this book for both you and your husband to read. amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411661136&sr=8-1&keywords=boundaries
Clearly the woman is not stable. You and your husband need to decide your boundaries (hence the book recommendation). Boundaries are not punishment and they are not to control others but to be clear on what you will and will not accept in your life. Also are good skill to learn especially in dealing with unstable people is to not JADE -justify, argue, defend or explain. Unstable people want what they want when they want it and you will just be having a circular argument that gets you no where.
As adults the days of thinking things will be fair should be long over. You and your husband decide where your boundaries are and then you enforce them. Step-mother is not invited to baptism, FIL chose not to attend either, they still respected your boundary and apparently they have their own -to attend together or not at all. That’s their choice. They respected yours, you respect theirs. It hurts that we can’t control others, God doesn’t even do that -its called free will. As long as your boundaries are respected I don’t feel punishing FIL is charitable thing to do. You really don’t want to get down to that level with a tit for tat type of exchange.Its not becoming.
I don’t believe you should have to get off facebook, she breaks the boundary -she gets blocked on facebook. You put up your fences and you enforce your boundaries. What others choose to do after falls on them.
I have unstable family members, trust me I do get it. It hurts I know.

I think another good read is called “Stop Walking on Eggshells”.

 

[Allegra]

Take a break from these people. I know it is hard, but you deserve some peace and there is nothing you can do about your mother-in-law’s illness.