My Journey to Trenecostalism

  • Thread starter Thread starter DominvsVobiscvm
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
MIDGIE:
http://www.2and2.net/Priv/JesusITrustInYou.jpg

Let me use this picture that St. Faustina was commissioned by Jesus to paint of Him to make my point. The Rays in this picture represents Jesus’ Love. It’s a Power, an Energy, a Mighty Force that emanates from His very Being.
Click to expand...
It is Jesus who out of His love for us wills those rays to shine upon us. That is an act.

Those rays are a form of grace, and without grace we are incapable of experiencing the supernatural virture of charity.

So if you are saying that Christ puts love in us that we may love, that might make sense. That is part of the process by which we are made whole, so we should find consolation in that. However, our concupiscence might make us incapable of feeling that consolation.
 
40.png
wet-rat:
It is Jesus who out of His love for us wills those rays to shine upon us. That is an act.
Click to expand...
Is not the act BECAUSE of His Love for us?

God bless you
 
The Charistmatic Movement is just Montanism revisited.

As far as the movement originating from Apostolic times…that’s a stretch. Granted, the Bible and the early Christians noted a gift of the Holy Spirit…known as “speaking in tongues.”

I would say the Charismatic Movement…or, as I call it – Neo-Montanism…was founded centuries and centuries later.

I do know that Paul preached…

"Tongues-speaking is only edifying in the Church if it is interpreted. “But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the Church.” First Corinthians 14:5, 27, 28

History shows that glossolalia (tongue speaking itself) did occur within the early Church…and I also do know the early fathers were incredibly divided. Chrysostom disapproved and Augustine was mixed…Ignatius believed in speaking in tongues, but believed also in its limited usage. The Montanist movement (which holds great similarities with the Charismatic Movement) of the late second century included prophetesses, speaking in tongues, etc… was declared heretical by 99% of the church (even though, Tertullian loved the movement)…it got so bad that excommunication became involved (Serapion, bishop of Antioch spoke out against it greatly). The Canon of Moratori (the oldest list of authorized New Testament books…written in Rome circa 170 AD) mentions Montanism among heresies and rejects its teachings and writings. Speaking in tongues was extremely rare within the church after this time.

The fact is…just as cancer has signs…so does this movement.
 
I believe it was Saint Epiphanius of Cyprus who wrote in “Panarion” a whole chapter on Montanism. He stated that Montanists receive the Bible in full… the Trinity…the resurrection of the dead…etc…but they mislead in their teachings on gifts.

The only reason the Charistmatic Movement is being allowed right now…is to attract Protestants to the faith.
 
I feel exactly the same way you do. After I was introduced to the Charismatic Movement by a youth minister at my Catholic university, I did a thorough research of it, and even wrote a paper on glossolalia. I concluded that this Movement is not Montanism, as many people who have not researched it or been affliliated with Charismatics have concluded. However, I do deplore any abuses which occur in a Charismatic Mass, the same as I deplore abuses at any Mass. Last year, I attended a Tridentine Mass, but I was turned off by many of the parishoners complaining and reactionary attitudes. I love the joy and the passion for Christ that I have seen in the Charismatic Movement, and it seems that these people are much more eager to share the Gospel than most Catholics I know. However, I have met those, who, like you mentioned, think of “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” as an 8th sacrament- which I believe is very wrong. I believe the Charismatic Movement is a gift to the Church, but some do abuse it (as Satan wants us to do with all the gifts God gives us). It’s comforting to know that someone else shares my concerns, though. If you would like to continue discussing the theology of the Charismatic Movement, please send me an e-mail. In the mean time, continue to praise Jesus and ask Him to lead you in the right direction- He will!!!
 
40.png
Jessica:
I feel exactly the same way you do. After I was introduced to the Charismatic Movement by a youth minister at my Catholic university, I did a thorough research of it, and even wrote a paper on glossolalia. I concluded that this Movement is not Montanism, as many people who have not researched it or been affliliated with Charismatics have concluded. However, I do deplore any abuses which occur in a Charismatic Mass, the same as I deplore abuses at any Mass. Last year, I attended a Tridentine Mass, but I was turned off by many of the parishoners complaining and reactionary attitudes. I love the joy and the passion for Christ that I have seen in the Charismatic Movement, and it seems that these people are much more eager to share the Gospel than most Catholics I know. However, I have met those, who, like you mentioned, think of “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” as an 8th sacrament- which I believe is very wrong. I believe the Charismatic Movement is a gift to the Church, but some do abuse it (as Satan wants us to do with all the gifts God gives us). It’s comforting to know that someone else shares my concerns, though. If you would like to continue discussing the theology of the Charismatic Movement, please send me an e-mail. In the mean time, continue to praise Jesus and ask Him to lead you in the right direction- He will!!!
Click to expand...
My research has proved otherwise…it is indeed Neo-Montanism.
 
40.png
MIDGIE:
God is Love. God is an act?
Click to expand...
Indeed, God is pure act.
If love is the act, then how are we to understand:

*** “Your every act should be done with love.” ~*** 1 Cor. 16:14
Click to expand...
Love is an act of the will, not a physical act.
 
40.png
MIDGIE:
What in the world is wrong with being “emotional” about our faith.
Click to expand...
Emotion =/= faith.

Emotion is misleading

Emotion can be manipulated

Emotion is just chemical in the brains
Do you think those in the Bible who were healed or received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and afterwards were “emotional” about it?
Click to expand...
No
Were the Disciples of Christ “emotional” about it when they realized the demons were subject to them?
Click to expand...
No
Is LOVE an emotion?
Click to expand...
No
Is JOY an emotion?
Click to expand...
Yes
 
agname,

I don’t see how research could prove that something is “Neo-Montanism,” when the word “Neo” allows you essentially to define your terms any way you want to. You can label the charismatic movement “neo-Montanism” if you want to, but I don’t think you have good grounds for doing so. Protestant Pentecostalism is a different story, because like old-fashioned Montanism it is schismatic. Certainly, as some on this thread have pointed out, incipiently schismatic tendencies are prevalent in the charismatic movement as well–some charismatics clearly believe that they have the Spirit in a way non-charismatics don’t. But that is not a necessary conclusion. It seems irrefutable to me that the charismatic movement has produced a more vibrant spiritual life among many Catholics and mainline Protestants. I myself learned to live the sacramental life in an Episcopal parish with a strong charismatic (as well as Anglo-Catholic) slant to it (though in the eyes of the Catholics on this board this may have been a bad thing, since the spiritual nourishment I was receiving in my Episcopal parish helped to keep me from becoming Catholic).

In Christ,

Edwin
 
Beng~
Could you please tell us what makes you think that the Charismatic Movement is “Neo-Montanism?”
 
40.png
Jessica:
Beng~
Could you please tell us what makes you think that the Charismatic Movement is “Neo-Montanism?”
Click to expand...
I thought I said the contrary.
 
Could Agname please tell us why why he thinks Charismatics are Neo-Montanists?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top