My marriage: disillusioned from day one

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“it is for sure an integral part of marriage but it is not and should not be to sole purpose of marriage.”
For my part, the comment is not directed at you specifically, since I know little about your situation. It is a comment on our society and the topics being discussed in this thread. It may or may not be relevant to your situation.

btw I am in a sexless marriage for the last 8 years out of 13 years. I am a man, I love my wife, and am grateful for our marriage and out 2 kids. Would I want to have the marital embrace too? Of course, but what I do have is far better than what I deserve. Everything else is great, once I fully understood and accepted our situationist, the lack of relations is no longer a (major) source of anxiety for us and we have many many joyous experience together.

Your last post is a little confusing. Are you saying that you won’t have relations if it is not pleasurable (physically) for you? “I could pretend to be happy without sex for the next 75 years” These quotes are what are generating some of the reaction from us other posters. It makes it sound like you are refusing relations because you are not satisfied. That’s the thing with forums like this you have to be real careful with your wording.

God Bless and I will pray for you during your decision process.
 
I just don’t want to drag my husband back down the marriage road only to find out that we can’t create sexual chemistry where there is none. I could pretend to be happy without sex for the next 75 years, but that’s not fair to either of us.
Happiness is an inside job. Just as external things such as money, clothes, a big house, etc. cannot make you happy; neither can husbands. Happiness is achieved by using your own God given gifts to the best of your ability in service to Him. Unhappy people tend to blame their unhappiness on other things because it easier than looking inward at the real reasons.

Happiness takes work!
 
The big question in my mind after reading all of this is WHY didn’t you have more sex with him in the time that you were married? Was he not interested?
 
This may seem like it’s coming from “out in left field,” but anytime I hear a woman say she’s not interested in sex, I wonder if she’s on hormonal contraception. When I was on the pill, I was constantly wondering what was wrong with me in that department. I never wanted to dtd, nor did I enjoy it when we did dtd. I didn’t like kissing my husband either when these pills were messing with my normal hormones. I just wanted to be asexual. Research shows that the pill does the same things to female primates. They completely lose interest, and the male primates get violent and aggressive. When I went off the pill, everything changed. Research shows that the pill kills women’s libido faster than anything. Anti-depressants can also kill libido. If you’re not on either of these, maybe you should actually see a doctor to see if there’s a physical reason before you divorce your husband (such as low testosterone). You might just need a little medical help.
 
This may seem like it’s coming from “out in left field,” but anytime I hear a woman say she’s not interested in sex, I wonder if she’s on hormonal contraception. When I was on the pill, I was constantly wondering what was wrong with me in that department. I never wanted to dtd, nor did I enjoy it when we did dtd. I didn’t like kissing my husband either when these pills were messing with my normal hormones. I just wanted to be asexual. Research shows that the pill does the same things to female primates. They completely lose interest, and the male primates get violent and aggressive. When I went off the pill, everything changed. Research shows that the pill kills women’s libido faster than anything. Anti-depressants can also kill libido. If you’re not on either of these, maybe you should actually see a doctor to see if there’s a physical reason before you divorce your husband (such as low testosterone). You might just need a little medical help.
I don’t want to get into medical advice and we all should avoid that on these forums but there are foods and herbs that will naturally also raise some of the right hormone levels in the body. Also - these foods and herbs are ones that will typically be associated with romantic dinners, etc. Something you could probably check out at a wholistic food store or with a DO (doctor of osteopathy a licensed doctor that also practices in natural medicine.)
 
I’d also recommend The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Laura Schlessinger. It’s really eye-opening. Sex is not optional in marriage (I sort of thought it was when I first got married)–if your husband is desperate, withholding sex is like withholding food. You’ve just gotta do it even if you’re not in the mood. I took this advice to heart a few years ago, and I have the best marrige on the planet. Sex with his wife is one of the most important factors to a man’s happiness.
 
I don’t want to get into medical advice and we all should avoid that on these forums but there are foods and herbs that will naturally also raise some of the right hormone levels in the body. Also - these foods and herbs are ones that will typically be associated with romantic dinners, etc. Something you could probably check out at a wholistic food store or with a DO (doctor of osteopathy a licensed doctor that also practices in natural medicine.)
Excuse me, but I was not telling her what to do medically (other than to see a doctor), only offering possibilities for what might be going on… I don’t appreciate your little reprimand at all.
 
I’d also recommend The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Laura Schlessinger. It’s really eye-opening. Sex is not optional in marriage (I sort of thought it was when I first got married)–if your husband is desperate, withholding sex is like withholding food. You’ve just gotta do it even if you’re not in the mood. I took this advice to heart a few years ago, and I have the best marrige on the planet. Sex with his wife is one of the most important factors to a man’s happiness.
Think of sex and Christmas the same way. Do you buy gifts for other people with the intention that other people will be impressed and buy you nicer things? Or do you give because you like to give. When we give because we like we become more Christ like in our heart. Christ loved his Church so much that he gave his life for us even though most at the time did not recognize him for what he was or reciprocate. When we take our marital vows we vow that we will do our best to love each other as Christ loves the Church. Think about that for awhile and pray.
 
Going through the questions and false assumptions in an effort to provide the most information I can. 🙂
  1. I would (and did) have sex even if it wasn’t pleasurable. He stopped pursuing sex with me after a short while.
  2. We didn’t have more sex because we both lost interest quickly, as far as I can tell. He would say that he’d like to have sex, but wouldn’t follow up on it physically.
  3. I actually did have my hormones tested–definitely nothing wrong there. In fact, according to my hormones, my body is ready to rock. I AM interested in sex and since we were divorced have been sexually attracted to other men. Based on medical tests and my own personal experience, I don’t think my libido is lacking.
  4. I did read The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Laura Schlessinger. (I’m a fan of Schlessinger’s style though I occassionally disagree with her advice.) Her book is definitely geared at women who have different problems in their marriage (jealousy, nagging, potential for infidelity.) I guess I didn’t see how it related to our situation.
Thanks.
 
Additional follow-up questions for shannyk and ThyKingdomCome:

How many years did it take before you started to enjoy sex with your spouse?

How many times per week/month/year did you have sex while waiting for it to be pleasurable? How did you push through the awkwardness and discomfort? Did you talk to your spouse about not enjoying sex with him/her throughout the “honeymoon” portion of your marriage, or did you pretend that it was enjoyable? How did your spouse feeling about the unpleasurable sex?
 
  1. I did read The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Laura Schlessinger. (I’m a fan of Schlessinger’s style though I occassionally disagree with her advice.) Her book is definitely geared at women who have different problems in their marriage (jealousy, nagging, potential for infidelity.) I guess I didn’t see how it related to our situation.
Thanks.
I think you misread the book. Those are instances of specific problems in marriages, but the bottom line of that book is “choose wisely, treat kindly.” That is relevant to any marriage.

I have to ask, sex is discussed during Catholic marriage prep. Expectations, etc. Did you ever tell the priest who married you that you felt no sexual feelings at all for your husband, even when you kissed him? Because I think that he would have put the brakes on right there and advised you to reconsider a marriage to someone with whom you felt no sexual chemistry.

To the poster who repeated the old canard about how the world is obsessed with sex… what makes marriage different from a deep friendship? What is the one aspect you share with a spouse that you share with no one else? There MUST be a reason for that. In marriage we become “one flesh.” That’s sex. Sex IS important to a healthy marriage, and I get really tired of seeing people condemned as hopelessly worldly and unspiritual if they believe so. Yes, couples can and should bear the cross if sex becomes impossible. But it should not be the way they set things up, where sex is disregarded and relegated to the importance of changing the oil in the car or flipping the mattress.
 
Going through the questions and false assumptions in an effort to provide the most information I can. 🙂
  1. I would (and did) have sex even if it wasn’t pleasurable. He stopped pursuing sex with me after a short while.
  2. We didn’t have more sex because we both lost interest quickly, as far as I can tell. He would say that he’d like to have sex, but wouldn’t follow up on it physically.
  3. I actually did have my hormones tested–definitely nothing wrong there. In fact, according to my hormones, my body is ready to rock. I AM interested in sex and since we were divorced have been sexually attracted to other men. Based on medical tests and my own personal experience, I don’t think my libido is lacking.
  4. I did read The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Laura Schlessinger. (I’m a fan of Schlessinger’s style though I occassionally disagree with her advice.) Her book is definitely geared at women who have different problems in their marriage (jealousy, nagging, potential for infidelity.) I guess I didn’t see how it related to our situation.
Thanks.
Not suggesting you have an attitude problem, but since you state very plainly he doens’t “get you going” could it be an attitude problem on your part? We guy’s aren’t completely blind, we can see when someone isn’t in to us. That’s a complete turn off, I’m sure if that’s happening in a marital situation it just makes it that much more stressfull, and makes the guy want to avoid the situation as much as possible.

I still have to suggest a sex counsoler, and that you put your all into making this marriage work. You guys already took the vows, and from what I gather the marriage did manage to get consumated yes? Of two bodys, god made one flesh. It’s a little late to just go back and un-do things. At least if you’re interested in staying in good with the big guy up stairs.
 
First, let me say that I realize that your first post says that you don’t really know what you’re asking. I answered you as though you were asking, “should I get back together with him or not?” I guess, to me, that is the most important question, because we’re talking about a sacrament, not just a legal bond. That’s where my answer is coming from - even a marriage with no sexual chemistry should be preserved at all costs, as long as it is a valid marriage. So while you should work towards having a more fulfilling sex life, it is my belief that even if there never is any fulfillment, it would be wrong to end the marriage (on those grounds).
Additional follow-up questions for shannyk and ThyKingdomCome:

How many years did it take before you started to enjoy sex with your spouse?

How many times per week/month/year did you have sex while waiting for it to be pleasurable? How did you push through the awkwardness and discomfort? Did you talk to your spouse about not enjoying sex with him/her throughout the “honeymoon” portion of your marriage, or did you pretend that it was enjoyable? How did your spouse feeling about the unpleasurable sex?
I should clarify that I wasn’t speaking from the same experience as you have. I was a virgin when I got married. It did take several months (3-6?) to be able to do it succesfully. But that was several times a month, so while the timeframe was shorter than yours, the number of attempts made was more. Of course, for me it was an issue of learning and logistics, and not about desire. Not that I was exactly enjoying that time, or that I wasn’t afraid it would never work out, but we joked about it, and I looked at it like learning any new skill - practice makes perfect, lol. And eventually we figured it out. Phew!

Now I can also admit that I had my share of pre-marital sin. And while I know I have been forgiven for these sins, the wounds are still there, after 10 years of marriage. The say that sin is like hammering nails into a wall. When you go to confession and are forgiven, it’s like the nails are removed. But the wall still has all those holes from where the nails used to be - so with sin, the damage still remains, even though you are forgiven. If your body is used to certain things, whether it’s a specific physical stimulus or the mental state that you used to be in when you were committing the sexual sins of your past, you now have a habit to overcome. It may be difficult to get comfortable with sex that is truly intimate (as compared with lust from a person who didn’t love you unconditionally). Or you may be used to certain behaviors that you can’t do now.

Plus, even though you didn’t realize it at the time, you were giving away pieces of your heart to all of the guys you fooled around with/slept with. So it is harder to give yourself completely to your dh because there’s someone else who was in your heart once (and possibly not 100% gone). And for your dh, it may be harder to give himself to you completely because he knows he has to share you with the guy(s) from the past.

I don’t mean to paint such a bleak picture. Maybe not everyone has a tough time with this. But I still deal with that issue - both for myself (who was too intimate with a past bf) and for my dh (who had his own premarital sins). It affects my ability to be completely open and trusting. I’m mentioning it because if it is a component of your difficulty, then it gives you something to work through.

Whatever the issues holding you back, I think you should work through them with your dh. Did you already get the recommendation of Greg Popcak’s “Holy Sex” book? I haven’t read it, but I’ve heard good things. If you’re not able to conquer this just the two of you, do seek counseling about it. I’m not sure what’s available, but if your marriage is sacramental, then it is worth trying.
 
MARRIAGE PREP
I did talk to my priest about the lack of sexual chemistry. He is the priest that converted me (small parish–I was the only person converting that year) so we had a very close pastor-parishioner relationship. He knew that I’d been sexual in the past. When we VERY first started dating, I did feel a sexual attraction to my husband, but that quickly faded as my advances were kindly, but repeatedly rejected. I explained this to my priest and I rationalized to him that the reason I felt no sexual attraction to my fiance was because I knew that we couldn’t be sexual until we were married. At the time, I was SO confident that our impending marriage would open the floodgates.

SEX AS A SKILL
I think we may be on to something. When you talk about sex as a “skill,”, it makes sense why my husband and I didn’t push through the bad sex. One personality trait we share is “paralyzed perfectionism.” We are both blessed to be naturally talented at some things (music for him, art for me) and we both quickly give up when we try something new that we’re not good at.

SEX COUNSELOR
I would like to see a sex counselor. I suggested it way back when we first separated, but he wasn’t game then. He is game now (we have talked about it). But we’re having a hard time finding a sex therapist in our area. I’ve talked to my mother (a counselor in another state) and even she doesn’t know how to find one. I’ve tried internet searches, the yellow pages, etc. I live in Minneapolis–you’d think there’d be a few sex therapists in a state that continually votes for liberal presidents. 😛 Anyway: those of you who suggested a sex counselor, can you give me some resources to find one? 🙂
 
Oh and I should add, to clarify my own issue with past sexual sins…it is not all consuming for us. It is something that pops up into my head now and then and affects me. I’m sure that the amount it affects people is different depending on personality, level of sin, passage of time, etc…So my point about it is that it may not be an issue with your relationship per se, but with the baggage you brought into it. And that can be improved.
 
Try books first. Light a candle and read to each other. Homework required.

You don’t go to the next lesson till each of you gives each other an A on the last one. 😉
 
“I promise to be true to you, in good times and in bad, for richer and poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.”

I’m sorry if things weren’t perfect, but a marriage is a covenant. Did God promise that He wouldn’t send another Great Flood with conditions? (Gen 8-9)

Maybe this is the “in sickness” part of the covenant. Healthy young people can have healthy sex lives – thus, you’re right in thinking that something’s up. Maybe there’s something he’s not sharing (or something you’re not sharing), something that makes the physical relationship problematic. If so, whatever it is, you’ve signed up for it.

Maybe you just haven’t tried hard enough. When I had premarital sex in high school, against my better judgment, it came easily, though I felt *awful *about it. When, much later, I made love to my wife, we had to learn together – even though I “had experience”. My experience was, in fact, a hindrance: it made me think of the sexual act as a process of self-fulfillment, not a process of self-giving. As a lover, I am at my best when I **only **concern myself with making my wife feel loved.🙂

Sex is all about forgetting yourself. This is a very hard lesson for those of us (like myself) who have “indulged” in self-centered sexual gratification for decades.

Honest, heart-wrenching conversation is a wonderful aphrodisiac – although sometimes it takes a little while to take effect.

At any rate, love is a decision. You’ve spoke the words that indicate the decision, but you don’t seem to have *made *the decision. Make it now.
 
MARRIAGE PREP
I did talk to my priest about the lack of sexual chemistry. He is the priest that converted me (small parish–I was the only person converting that year) so we had a very close pastor-parishioner relationship. He knew that I’d been sexual in the past. When we VERY first started dating, I did feel a sexual attraction to my husband, but that quickly faded as my advances were kindly, but repeatedly rejected. I explained this to my priest and I rationalized to him that the reason I felt no sexual attraction to my fiance was because I knew that we couldn’t be sexual until we were married. At the time, I was SO confident that our impending marriage would open the floodgates.

SEX AS A SKILL
I think we may be on to something. When you talk about sex as a “skill,”, it makes sense why my husband and I didn’t push through the bad sex. One personality trait we share is “paralyzed perfectionism.” We are both blessed to be naturally talented at some things (music for him, art for me) and we both quickly give up when we try something new that we’re not good at.

SEX COUNSELOR
I would like to see a sex counselor. I suggested it way back when we first separated, but he wasn’t game then. He is game now (we have talked about it). But we’re having a hard time finding a sex therapist in our area. I’ve talked to my mother (a counselor in another state) and even she doesn’t know how to find one. I’ve tried internet searches, the yellow pages, etc. I live in Minneapolis–you’d think there’d be a few sex therapists in a state that continually votes for liberal presidents. 😛 Anyway: those of you who suggested a sex counselor, can you give me some resources to find one? 🙂
I have a similar problem to yours–no libido. My issue is my own however, unrelated to the performance of my DH. I’ve seen multiple doctors about it and all their tests report that I have no physiological condition causing it. So know that you are not the only one with this type of problem.

As for a sex counselor, I believe that your OB/GYN should be able to refer you to one. Mine tried to refer me to one, but we just cannot afford it and our insurance does not cover that type of thing. We have accepted it as our cross to bear and have a good marriage otherwise.

You and your DH will be in my prayers. God bless both of you.
 
One or two things struck me in your posts.

One is that your husband may not have been that active in pursuing sex because he sensed you were hesitant, and felt badly about pushing it on you, or insecure. So he just mentioned it and lest it to you to show some interest back.

In a marriage, really good communication is so important. Many groups have counseling services that focus on that, and it might be just as important as sex therapy. (And FWIW, I’m not so sure that the Catholic counselor you saw was all that great - it isn’t enough just to say you’re married, suck it up. You go to a counselor to get practical help!)

And the other thing is - a lot of marriages go through periods where sex and intimacy are a problem. Not always at the beginning, like you have found, but perhaps related to children, menopause, periods of stress, or whatever. In a way it is harder at the beginning because you don’t have the memory of a time when sex was working for the two of you, but in other ways it is actually quite similar.

In all these situations, it can be very difficult, and it takes work. I had a period like this after the birth of my first child, related to ppd to some extent. I had no interest in sex, and in fact was upset with my husband and found him unattractive. And I really understand that having sex under those conditions can be terrible, not because you aren’t enjoying it, but because of the resentment and emotions it is related to.

But in all marriage I think this has to be worked through. If you initially felt attracted to your husband, than you can again. Just don’t feel you need to have it work perfectly right away, and realize it could take a fair bit of time.
 
I think it’s great that you and your husband are looking at reuniting! 👍 I have to agree that your husband sounds like a gem, from what you’ve told us. You apparently have good taste.

I have to agree with the people who suggest that your sexual past may have marred your current relationship. My experience was different than yours in some key ways, but also had some similarities. Basically, DH and I had a fireworks-and-chemistry premarital relationship that left me seriously wounded (he came wounded from his own prior sexual relationships, that left him unable to perceive romantic commitment without sex). Basically, I started to realize that our sexual relationship was not a loving way to treat my boyfriend, and was badly wanting something better for both of us but couldn’t get past my harmones. He perceived how hurt I was and cut off the sex after a year of being sexually active. We continued to live together as chastely as we could manage through getting engaged and then finally married, since we didn’t have the money to seperate living quarters after ending the sexual relationship.

I expected to return to the same sexual relationship we had pre-maritally after marriage, but to my surprise, my DH was essentially frigid. We tried to relate sexually as before, but were lucky to manage sex once a month as newlyweds.

For us, it took two years to get to ‘normal’ - by which I mean, normal for married people seeking a long-term relationship and to express pre-existing intimacy, not normal for sex-obsessed pre-marital relations seeking a moment of enjoyment and harmone-conjured intimacy. Things thawed a little when I got pregnant 4 months in, a little more after the birth of our twins and early breastfeeding infertility, then got put on hold during 6 months of avoiding pregnancy with uncertain fertility signs while I was still breastfeeding and infertile. When my fertility returned, DH seemed to have gotten past whatever block had kept him from wanting sex. I think having children helped somehow, but am not sure why.

One thought is that the two of you may want to study the theology of the body together. This is a powerful teaching from Pope John Paul II about the meaning of our sexuality and being male and female. Christopher West has some good videos and books on his theology, if the original is too academic or dense (I’ve never read the original, actually - just gone through Christopher West’s stuff - but I hear it is even more rich and beautiful than what Christopher West is able to convey about it, although what Mr. West says is very rich as well). Maybe there are some valid reasons why your sexual relationship with your husband can’t look like your other sexual relationships that is leaving you confused, but maybe you can seek something new and different and better together if you approach it from the perspective of faith, love, and God’s plan for you as husband and wife.

Good luck and God’s blessings with finding a sexual therapist who shares your values. I really hope the two of you can overcome this obstacle and live a marriage that is fully satisfying for both of you!
 
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