My Mixed Marriage

[Julianna]

I am just going to stop opening these threads. I get so upset reading them when all I am trying to do is give practical advice. People come down so hard on mixed marriages for absolutely no reason.

I have never thought of our situation as putting an obstacle in our relationship, and I am completely and utterly offended by the assumption that it is such for mixed marriages. Who are we to decide what is the best option for others?

I’ve said it before, and I will say it again, we have NO idea what is the best option for anyone else. It is disgusting that people judge others for this.

How about those other obstacles? Should people not marry members of another race? A different branch of the military? A never married marrying a widow? How about someone with no kids marrying someone with kids? How about someone from the West Coast marrying someone on the East Coast? Someone from a wealthy family marrying someone from the middle class?

I can honestly say that I have never been so offended in my life as I am about the way this topic is treated on CAF. We’re not people stuck with a marriage that is going to take extra work because we married outside the faith. We don’t all hope that one day our spouse will come to his/her senses and convert or carry around some burden that we married outside the faith.

In my real life, I have never met another Catholic who [even before I was married] made such generalized statements regarding this topic. There are a million mixed marriage couples that have plenty healthy marriages.

I have spent the past hour researching the success rates of mixed marriages vs. Catholic marriages, and I can find NO statistics proving that those of us in mixed marriages are doomed for a life of unhappiness at any higher rate than a Catholic marriage. I’m still waiting for someone to PROVE to me that interfaith marriages provide some sort of “obstacle” that is “work” to overcome. I want to see divorce rate comparisons, counseling comparisons, etc.

I am done in these threads. It is so incredibly uncharitable to judge others as harshly and those of us in mixed marriages are judged. Nathan and I in almost 5 and a half years together have NEVER had a fight about religion.

I do want to repeat that I’m the Catholic. Not my husband. So, this is coming from my Catholic perspective. A cradle Catholic nonetheless.

Sorry I know this is a nasty post. It is just incredibly infuriating. I don’t sit around judging other people’s marital decisions. It is amazing mine is always up for grabs.

mrssears…don’t let it get to you. It didn’t get to my parents and they were doomed from the start. All the naysayers are still scratching their heads wondering “how” it worked. Cracks me up laughing, actually. I have never experienced this either as a cradle Catholic. You have to know…if you don’t already…CAF leans a bit to right. Keep that in mind when you post. Also remember, the high and righteous don’t pay your bills, feed or cloth you…they are anonymous names on an anonymous forum. They have absolutey NO control over your soul. They hint, make suggestions…quote canon law (ad nauseum)…but in the end be thankful that here in America you can express your thoughts and opinions…and you can agree to disagree. Alot of folks come on these boards and get hammered. I have been hammered…I keep coming back.

I taught confirmation class…and when it was time for confirmation there were a few students that chose not to go through with it. I respected that and so did my DRE. Their parents were furious because “this is what you are SUPPOSED to do”. I made my confirmation in my 20’s. It wasn’t because I was a child of a mixed marriage. It is because I was not ready…and I did not want to “go through the motions” to make my parents happy.

I would ask that you reconsider staying with the CAF. If anything some folks may learn that they don’t live in a fishbowl…and we do have to swim around in a big ocean with all kinds of God’s creations…and with that light of Christianity will shine or it won’t.

 

[1ke]

However, the point of conformation is for a child to become an adult in the faith.

No, this is not the purpose of the Sacrament of Confirmation.

Confirmation completes baptism and gives the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is, like all Sacraments, a means of grace from God. It is *obligatory *for Catholics, not optional (see Canon Law).

It is most definitely **not **about “becoming an adult” in the Faith.

The Bishop confers the Sacrament, and the person does not necessarily have to be an adult-- to receive it. In the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches, infants receive Baptism, Eucharist, *and *Confirmation all at once. Only in the Latin Rite are Baptism they separated and confered over time-- and this is disciplinary only not doctrinal. Children over the age of reason who convert to the Catholic Church receive all three Sacraments (or just Eucharist and Confirmation if they are already baptized).

 

[1ke]

If I am wrong and didn’t understand, please correct me, but If a child goes through confirmation and they are so young, even in their early teens, and it is “just the thing to do” because the church says it is the thing to do. How can they be held forever to the church and will be in sin if they leave because of something they did and never understood to begin with?

One does not become a Catholic at Confirmation. One becomes a Catholic at Baptism. So, objectively it is grave matter for any baptized Catholic to leave the faith.

I mean I have a 14 year old and I cannot see him making a decision such as this at that age.

It is wrongly being framed as a “decision” that they make. The Sacrament of Confirmation has nothing to do with “deciding” to be Catholic. They already are Catholic by virtue of their baptism.

I am teaching him right from wrong, but his decision on if he will go to church or not will be strictly his as an adult.

Certainly it will be his decision. All the more reason that he needs all the grace of the Sacraments.

However, I was not married in a Catholic church, but I can tell you now that I KNOW my marriage is as blessed by God as anyone that did get married in the church. And so I completely understand your frustration.

There is a difference between being married outside the Church and being dispensed from Catholic form. If your spouse received a dispensation to be married in your church, then of course your marriage is valid and the Church (and “us” here on the board) recognize it as valid. If your spouse did not receive the proper dispensation, then no it is not valid.

 

[whatevergirl]

I have seen mixed marriages work. More often than not, however, once a couple marries who are of different faiths…one of the two converts to whatever the spouse feels called to. Now to me personally, I think that marrying someone of your own faith, if you are devout especially, is a wise idea–simply because you are both on the same page from a spritual perspective. It’s funny…people talk about money, about so many things before marriage, but faith talk …well, that will all work out because we love one another. Not always so.

Yes, interfaith marriages work…but, I just think it would be hard to have to attend two somewhat opposing services on Sunday. While many Christian denoms share similar things in common with the Catholic faith, they are opposed in other obvious ways. It would be to me, harder to juggle two faiths in a household, than just celebrate one. I think in some ways, it could be quite confusing for children to learn two faiths that are opposing–even if both parents are Christian, essentially.

So they can work–and I’m happy for those on here that it works for. I just think it is more prudent to marry someone who shares your faith.

Just my two cents :twocents:

 

[PatienceAndLove]

No, this is not the purpose of the Sacrament of Confirmation.

Confirmation completes baptism and gives the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is, like all Sacraments, a means of grace from God. It is *obligatory *for Catholics, not optional (see Canon Law).

It is most definitely **not **about “becoming an adult” in the Faith.

The Bishop confers the Sacrament, and the person does not necessarily have to be an adult-- to receive it. In the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches, infants receive Baptism, Eucharist, *and *Confirmation all at once. Only in the Latin Rite are Baptism they separated and confered over time-- and this is disciplinary only not doctrinal. Children over the age of reason who convert to the Catholic Church receive all three Sacraments (or just Eucharist and Confirmation if they are already baptized).

You are always so much better at explaining things than I am…

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

And I really don’t understand the whole “judgement” aspect. I can hold the opinion that two spouses not sharing a faith can be a major obstacle in a marriage without judging any individual couples.

**I do not think that all mixed faith marriages are “doomed” (mine wasn’t). I do not think that mixed faith marriages are “lesser” marriages. I do not think that all children of mixed faith marriages will be damned to a life of religious nothingness.

But what I do think is that it is a risk. And risks can have serious consequences… deciding to take on a risk and then deny that it is a risk doesn’t make sense to me. It doesn’t seem truthful.**

**Every person has free will and can make whatever choices they want and feel are right for them. But to point out that it is a risk is not judgment on the individual, only the situation.

**

 

[whatevergirl]

And I really don’t understand the whole “judgement” aspect. I can hold the opinion that two spouses not sharing a faith can be a major obstacle in a marriage without judging any individual couples.

**I do not think that all mixed faith marriages are “doomed” (mine wasn’t). I do not think that mixed faith marriages are “lesser” marriages. I do not think that all children of mixed faith marriages will be damned to a life of religious nothingness.

But what I do think is that it is a risk. And risks can have serious consequences… deciding to take on a risk and then deny that it is a risk doesn’t make sense to me. It doesn’t seem truthful.**

**Every person has free will and can make whatever choices they want and feel are right for them. But to point out that it is a risk is not judgment on the individual, only the situation.

**

I agree with you, here, Malia. Not all are doomed. In fact, many work out. I think that it’s never a good idea to hold judgement against people, especially when we have no clue what the inner workings of people’s lives are. But, I think it is more prudent for a couple to be of the same faith. Doesn’t mean that they would be doomed, though, if they are not.

Good post.

 

[rolltidefan]

Julianna…First of all, I am giving you a bit thumbsp! Love what you said!

1ke…Thank you for explaining that to me. You put it in a way that I could understand from the Catholic point. However, no there was no form signed by me or my husband for him to marry outside the church…Why, because I saw no need for it and he never asked that I did such. Secondly, I would have never signed such forms. As I said before, I KNOW my God and savior himself is in my marriage and has “put his stamp of approval on it” and I need no church to say it is or isn’t legit.

I think there are going to be a lot of people on here that have to bite their own words if their own children go through these things and either date/marry outside the Catholic church. I just pray that most of your children don’t marry outside of their Catholic religion because I couldn’t imagine having to deal with it.

 

[BamaRider]

Look I dunno about all these looooooong posts, I didn’t read all of them, but this is really simple.

If all things are equal (meaning the partner in question is not a felon) is it or is it not better for a practing Catholic, marry the same, and sharing that Faith with their children?

Does anyone disagree with that?

 

[_Jenn]

Stephanie(newmrssears) I completely understand your frustration - as a cradle Catholic married to a non-Catholic.

See here’s the thing that people miss when they decide to go all out against “mixed marriages” (can’t stand the term myself). Not everyone views everything black & white.

I married a man. A wonderful, amazing, loving, compassionate, man. I could have cared less what denomination he was. Love & marriage isn’t about carving something out of a cookie cutter. There is a reason God brought us together - who are we (or any of you) to question it?

I’m cradle Catholic; my dh is non-practicing Lutheran. We do not have different faiths; we are both CHRISTIANS. It is the traditions, the things that we grew up with, that are different.

Never once in our marriage prep were we told how “difficult” it would be, what “risks” there would be, etc. Only in a place like this, with the anonymity of sitting behind a screen, does so much of it take place. Our priest was thrilled to marry us; even more so when he looked at our FOCUS test and couldn’t believe that we had already discussed and figured out how we’d embrace (not handle, embrace) any topic of discussion that came our way.

No marriage is sunshine & roses 24/7. Being of different denominations is no more a barrier than the types of neighborhoods you grew up in, the types of schools you attended, who your friends are, how strict your parents were, etc. All of it shapes you into the adult you are; it’s up to YOU (general you here) to decide how to embrace it, and what kind of adult to be, which will then help you in finding the right one for you.

 

[masuwerte]

Look I dunno about all these looooooong posts, I didn’t read all of them, but this is really simple.

If all things are equal (meaning the partner in question is not a felon) is it or is it not better for a practing Catholic, marry the same, and sharing that Faith with their children?

Does anyone disagree with that?

All things are never equal.

 

[BamaRider]

All things are never equal.

But you still didn’t answer the question. If all things are equal is it better for a practicing Catholic to marry the same or not?

So religion doesn’t matter to you at ALL if all the other stars line up?

Look, I’m not condemning the inter faith marriage. I’M the product of one. My mother was a mostly practicing Baptist and there was no power struggle, my father did his duty to pass the Faith of my ancestors to me. But yes it bothered me my mother did not go to Mass with the rest of us, and I asked the question all the time, I just learned to deal with it.

But I’ll say this, it confirmed for me I was only going to marry a Catholic girl and if it didn’t work out, it WOULD NOT be because of religon all I’m saying.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

I’m still waiting for someone to PROVE to me that interfaith marriages provide some sort of “obstacle” that is “work” to overcome. I want to see divorce rate comparisons, counseling comparisons, etc.

I know my claims mean virtually nothing on an anonymous internet forum , but I earned my bachelor’s degree in Family Sociology, at a secular university in the United States. I graduated in 2002, so my studies have been relatively recent, and they covered marriage and divorce trends since 1900.

Unfortunately, on every list of “divorce risk factors” I have ever seen, being different religions is always in the top 10. Having a particular risk factor does not automatically mean you will divorce. The lists are compiled using information from, what end up being, millions of marriages over several decades. We cannot say that a particular individual will follow the general trend, but we can say that a given trend is what most Americans will experience.

I did a simple Google search for “risk factors divorce”, and it brought back lots of familiar information from my college days.

I would strongly encourage anyone who has access to a major state university library to do some research on this topic, if it interests them. There are volumes upon volumes of sociology journals that have documented the strongest risk factors of divorce.

God bless.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Julianna…First of all, I am giving you a bit thumbsp! Love what you said!

1ke…Thank you for explaining that to me. You put it in a way that I could understand from the Catholic point. However, no there was no form signed by me or my husband for him to marry outside the church…Why, because I saw no need for it and he never asked that I did such. Secondly, I would have never signed such forms. As I said before, I KNOW my God and savior himself is in my marriage and has “put his stamp of approval on it” and I need no church to say it is or isn’t legit.

I think there are going to be a lot of people on here that have to bite their own words if their own children go through these things and either date/marry outside the Catholic church. I just pray that most of your children don’t marry outside of their Catholic religion because I couldn’t imagine having to deal with it.

If you married in a Church other than a Catholic one, there would have been a dispensation that you, your husband, and his priest signed. If it was the form for him to marry a non-Catholic, than the priest took care of that without your signitures,. The “i promise to raise the kids Catholic” form no longer exists, but it is still something that the Catholic party is informed of and is held responsible for. You should have also been informed of this.
Hope that helps.

 

[tee]

It looks like it’s getting painful…

May be you all should give it a rest…

It looks to me like nobody is getting anybody’s point. Sometimes it’s just better to agree to disagree.

 

[1ke]

1ke…Thank you for explaining that to me. You put it in a way that I could understand from the Catholic point. However, no there was no form signed by me or my husband for him to marry outside the church…Why, because I saw no need for it and he never asked that I did such.

It’s not YOU that has to complete such paperwork. It is HIM. As a Catholic, it was HIS responsibility to follow the marriage laws of the Church.

Secondly, I would have never signed such forms.

Then you **do **lack respect for your husband’s faith tradition no matter what you say. Because, if you respect his faith tradition, and want him to do all that is in his power to practice his faith freely, then you would make sure that he is married validly. Since he is not married validly, he cannot receive ANY of the Sacraments and is committing mortal sin.

It is easy to rectify by having the marriage convalidated.

As I said before, I KNOW my God and savior himself is in my marriage and has “put his stamp of approval on it” and I need no church to say it is or isn’t legit.

Is it all about you? Or is it about both of you? Because as you well know, the Catholic Church teaches that it has authority from Christ to bind and loose. And, therefore, Catholics must follow the marriage laws of the Church. Perhaps you don’t believe that the Church has authority, but your practicing Catholic husband supposedly does.

So, do you respect him and his religion enough to make it right in the eyes of the Church? Or again, is it all about what you believe?

 

[Brenda_V]

But you still didn’t answer the question. If all things are equal is it better for a practicing Catholic to marry the same or not?

So religion doesn’t matter to you at ALL if all the other stars line up?

Look, I’m not condemning the inter faith marriage. I’M the product of one. My mother was a mostly practicing Baptist and there was no power struggle, my father did his duty to pass the Faith of my ancestors to me. But yes it bothered me my mother did not go to Mass with the rest of us, and I asked the question all the time, I just learned to deal with it.

But I’ll say this, it confirmed for me I was only going to marry a Catholic girl and if it didn’t work out, it WOULD NOT be because of religon all I’m saying.

Bama you make an interesting point. I am in a mixed faith marriage - one I prayed long and hard about before I got married so it was not one I went into with my eyes closed or with rose colored glasses on, probably like your parents. Like your parents, my husband and I have defied the odds, we are the exception to the rule of a mixed marriage, yes, we have had our fights and like our OP I can say I have seen those my same age with spouses of the same faith having equal or maybe even more heated arguments but, that again is more likely the exception than the rule.

Now back to your point Bama - my daughters, one now an agnostic, more Eastern religion kind of gal and one very devout Catholic see the need to marry someone with as close to the same religion as you. IOW, my devout Catholic daughter does not wish to marry someone who is not Catholic! Now did our differences in faith cause the one to become agnostic? I don’t think so for I do see in her some very Catholic beliefs she just doesn’t see them yet, she has always been very strong willed and has had a desire from the time she was 14 to be “different” from the rest of her family , including a belief in the Trinity, and God specicifically - defying both her father’s and my beliefs.

Okay, for all who are already in mixed faith marriages, I say work hard at them because you will need to - and yes, harder than those of same faith marriages whose faith walks are very close. For those considering it, pray long and hard about it, it is most definitely a hard row to hoe (and one well worth it to me.)

Brenda V.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Okay, for all who are already in mixed faith marriages, I say work hard at them because you will need to - and yes, harder than those of same faith marriages whose faith walks are very close. For those considering it, pray long and hard about it, it is most definitely a hard row to hoe (and one well worth it to me.)

Brenda V.

**Now this is wisdom…

**

 

[whatevergirl]

Stephanie(newmrssears) I completely understand your frustration - as a cradle Catholic married to a non-Catholic.

See here’s the thing that people miss when they decide to go all out against “mixed marriages” (can’t stand the term myself). Not everyone views everything black & white.

I married a man. A wonderful, amazing, loving, compassionate, man. I could have cared less what denomination he was. Love & marriage isn’t about carving something out of a cookie cutter. There is a reason God brought us together - who are we (or any of you) to question it?

I’m cradle Catholic; my dh is non-practicing Lutheran. We do not have different faiths; we are both CHRISTIANS. It is the traditions, the things that we grew up with, that are different.

Never once in our marriage prep were we told how “difficult” it would be, what “risks” there would be, etc. Only in a place like this, with the anonymity of sitting behind a screen, does so much of it take place. Our priest was thrilled to marry us; even more so when he looked at our FOCUS test and couldn’t believe that we had already discussed and figured out how we’d embrace (not handle, embrace) any topic of discussion that came our way.

No marriage is sunshine & roses 24/7. Being of different denominations is no more a barrier than the types of neighborhoods you grew up in, the types of schools you attended, who your friends are, how strict your parents were, etc. All of it shapes you into the adult you are; it’s up to YOU (general you here) to decide how to embrace it, and what kind of adult to be, which will then help you in finding the right one for you.

True, you are both Christians, but as you know, Luther separated himself from The Church. That’s actually a huge thing. There are more than just traditions that he disagreed with. He didn’t believe in the Papacy (apostolic succession) dating back to Peter, many Sacraments…the Rosary. Te Protestant Reformation is not a blip on the radar screen of history–it was a huge time for the CC in that fact that it created a slippery slope for which many denoms stemmed from, thus so much splintering of the faith. Jesus specifically talked about being ‘one united’ Church, and not splintering. So, it’s not like comparing two people living on opposite ends of town, although I think I understood your meaning here. I think often times people fall in love and the faith is secondary, because they believe that it will never be an obstacle. If one is living devoutly as say a Catholic, and the other is living devoutly as a Jew–that right there creates a gap between where there time will be spent together.

Faith isn’t a hobby. Ok, I’ll go to your service if you come to mine. Not that you are saying it is, but I have seen many families treat it as such, and to me, I would not attend a service in which I didn’t follow the faith, to appease my spouse. God and my faith supercede my marriage. And truthfully, my husband and I being both cradle Catholics, have had a lot to learn about the faith, I can only imagine if one of us was not Catholic at all.

I think for many it could work, but if one is devout in his/her faith, I think that there will be a compromise somewhere along the lines. There has to be, if there is the peace in a home.

 

[whatevergirl]

The thing is…(I went to edit my last post to add this, but couldn’t…too late I guess) that it’s not that marriages are doomed, but one’s faith shouldn’t take a backseat to a marriage. That really isn’t how our faiths should be looked at. If I want my husband to pray the Rosary with me, it won’t be an issue, as if it might be an issue if he ‘doesn’t believe’ in asking Mary for her prayer intercession. If I want my husband to join me at the Sacrament of Reconciliation, it can happen because he is Catholic–if he is not Catholic, then that is another area where we are apart on. Doesn’t mean it cannot work. Doesn’t mean a marriage should end in divorce, but over time, as these differences start piling up, it soon becomes evident that our faiths are really important to one another, and yet we cannot share the joy in each with each other.

I think that being married to someone who is not a devout Jew, Lutheran, Baptist, etc…would not be an issue, because they are not practicing anyways, and there could be a positive chance that he/she would want to examine the Catholic faith. But, like one of my BIL’s – he was a cradle Catholic…and left the faith to become a practicing Lutheran, because the woman he married is a devout Lutheran, and her dad was a minister. So, that’s the thing.

Yes, both are Christians, but he no longer celebrates the mass, or receives the Eucharist. The choice he made to leave his faith had more to do with not wanting to upset his wife who wanted him to convert, than it had to do with his own choice. He will often preach to my dh and me about the Catholic Church…and I listen, but simply say back…‘The Catholic Church was the Rock that Jesus was speaking of. Lutheran"ism" was founded by a man.’

Usually ends the debate. I am not one for family debates about religion, but I have seen firsthand what mixed marriages look like…they often don’t stay mixed for very long. Either the non Catholic converts or the Catholic converts. It is hard to just stay in the middle, if one is devout over his/her faith. It just is.

So, while I don’t believe mixed marriages of faith are doomed by any stretch, I think that there are obstacles that many don’t want to admit, to keep the peace within their homes. I would imagine I’d be in that boat, if I had not married a Catholic. I’d either be the convert or he would have been. If two people are devout in their respective faiths, if they are not of the same faith, they will spend time apart–nurturing their faiths–and really, marriage, when it comes to faith–is about being one flesh in all regards. Hard to be one flesh sitting by one’s self at mass, because a spouse who is not Catholic didn’t want to attend, or is attending his/her church service.

Also–there are birth control and sexuality issues that Catholics and non Catholic differ about. The CCC specifically spells out being open to life, and not using abc. But, I have friends and family who are non Catholics who see nothing wrong with sex acts not leading to the marital embrace, and birth control. So, again, when there are fundamental differences like this…there will either be one or the other compromising. Either the non Catholic will convert, or the Catholic will not want to rock the boat of his/her marriage, and start accepting birth control etc…or there will be fighting. A non Catholic who doesn’t follow the CCC, will not accept the teachings of it–why would they. I have read a lot of threads on this forum about two spouses having problems in the bedroom, because one spouse wants to follow the CCC and the other doesn’t believe in it, etc…

There are realities to think about. Not judgements, but serious real life situations that cause rifts in marriages, all the time.

This is my opinion. Just sharing my two cents.