My mom: “The Church should sell all her buildings, use that money for the poor, and hold Mass in a run-down building.”

[JMMJ]

what your mom expressed is her opinion. She is entitled to it, just as you are entitled to yours. Don’t fight with your mom over something like this. It isn’t nice, and it isn’t necessary. Give her a hug and tell her you love her.

 

[PJH_74]

We shouldn’t think there is a competition between worship and charity.

There shouldn’t, but church councils are run by people. Run more often by men I might add, who if we are honest, are more money oriented.

 

[Ridgerunner]

When I was a kid, our church burned down. It took a long time to rebuild, because it wasn’t possible to just clear it away and start over. During that time we did, indeed, have Mass in “any old building”. There were various ones. None of them really worked for Mass. Churches are purposely built to accommodate people for the worship of the particular church, in the same way theaters are built for movie patrons.

And fire or some other emergency was perhaps the worst hazard of all. Congregations weigh a lot and they’re unwieldy. Aisles are big for a reason. Underpinning is massive for a reason.

 

[Lion_IRC]

I love how the secular State is so quick to piously lecture us about how the poor in society are the responsibility of the Church, but in so many other matters they want the Church to butt out.

 

[HumbleIOughtToBe]

Others who answered this question:​

This does not imply you should not ask this question.

Shouldn't the Church sell off its artifacts? Ask an Apologist

How does one respond to someone who has been to Vatican City and has seen the wealth the Church has acquired and asks: Why does the Church not sell all its priceless items and give the proceeds to the poor?

Should the church sell all her riches and give it to the poor? Ask an Apologist

In Mark 10:17-22, Jesus tells the young man to ‘sell what you have and give to the poor’. Why does the church keep so much wealth in the Vatican and have so many beautiful cathedrals all over the world?

Wealth of the Vatican: Sell it off? Social Justice

I tried to send a personal message to the author of the question in Ask An Apologist about whether the wealth of the Vatican should be sold off for the benefit of the poor. I was unable to send the message, so I am posting my reply to that question here: Doing what your “friend” suggests would put the Vatican out of “business” so to speak. Is that what he or she wants? Are you sure? Why would you want to do that? The Vatican has a lot of inspirational art and it has large collections of do…

Sarah Silverman Attacks the Pope: 'Sell the Vatican, Feed the World' World News

A few years ago, comedienne Sarah Silverman disparaged God on her Comedy Central program by throwing him out of her apartment the morning after having sex with him. On Friday’s “Real Time with Bill Maher,” Silverman expounding on her anti-theism by introducing a new video wherein she offered a solution to solve world hunger: “Sell the Vatican, Feed the World.” As she chided the Pope for preaching about living humbly despite residing in a “house that is a city,” she advised him that such a…

Africa's superstar bishop talks Islam, oil companies, and why selling the Vatican is a stupid idea [John Allen] Catholic News

By JOHN L. ALLEN JR. Rome *Earlier this week, I interviewed Archbishop Wilton Gregory of Atlanta, the lone American member of the Oct. 4-25 Synod for Africa, and asked him how many of the African bishops he already knew. He ticked off several, beginning with Archbishop John Onaiyekan of Abuja, Nigeria – but at that point Gregory stopped himself, saying, “I guess that doesn’t really count, because everybody knows Onaiyekan!”* *Made a bishop at the tender age of 38, and now in full stride at 65…

Hot Potato Principle:​

Lets sell this art to that rich dude so we can feed the poor. We sell it and lose access to it. Rich man now holds the way to feed the poor, he sells it to another rich man. Hot potato hot potato, who has the Vatican, if you have the Vatican you are OUT.

Your Mother​

focus more on the people rather than buildings and stuff.

Art does focus on the people. Religion is beauty, ugly religions die. Beauty will inspire a man to martyrdom. Besides Martyrdom, beauty is the best Evangelize technique. The church of social justice warriors in not enough to win the hearts of the world.

She also hates it when she is corrected

To dialogue with someone who holds this attitude is almost impossible. Try to propose without saying or implying their is something to be corrected. It is not your duty to correct wrong beliefs of others. Some people can’t be reasoned with. Continue onward with joy.

 

[Neithan]

Where is the church super wealthy? There were the Vatican bank scandals. Other than that the only place I know where the church has billions in surplus is Germany (esp Bavaria) because of the income tax.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

She basically said that she thinks the Church is too rich and should focus more on the people rather than buildings and stuff.

Spoken like the average person who doesn’t have a clue what’s going on in the Church or what it does all day.

You’re best off just letting it go in one ear and out the other. Just say “yeah” and nod a lot until she loses interest in the discussion.

 

[PetraG]

There shouldn’t, but church councils are run by people. Run more often by men I might add, who if we are honest, are more money oriented.

Men are more money-oriented? This is news to me. I would not have said that a focus on money had any gender-specificity.

Yes, there can be a competition set up between worship and charity. There is, on one hand, the temptation to spend so much time and effort on prayer that charitable work for those in need is neglected. On the other hand, there is the temptation to say, “My work is my prayer” or “My outreach to the poor is my prayer.”

The great saints who reached out to the poor have not looked at it that way, though. Yes, they warned against ostentatious and excessive spending, even on sacred objects and buildings. No, they didn’t argue that the work of God would be improved if churches looked like neglected barns, with nothing uplifting or special about them.

When I was a kid, our church burned down. It took a long time to rebuild, because it wasn’t possible to just clear it away and start over. During that time we did, indeed, have Mass in “any old building”. There were various ones. None of them really worked for Mass. Churches are purposely built to accommodate people for the worship of the particular church, in the same way theaters are built for movie patrons.

And fire or some other emergency was perhaps the worst hazard of all. Congregations weigh a lot and they’re unwieldy. Aisles are big for a reason. Underpinning is massive for a reason.

Exactly. Those who wonder why churches need to be built specifically to support their purpose only need to be relegated to worshiping in a place that is poorly-suited for its purpose to understand why suitable architecture and furnishings really do matter. We are physical beings and our surroundings do matter.

When the OP’s mother decides to move herself into a poorly-designed or poorly-maintained building in order to free up money to help the poor, she might understand. Good design and good maintenance really are worthwhile investments, but particularly in buildings like churches where hospitality is also extended to the poor themselves.

We wouldn’t argue that accomodations for the poor ought to be hovels. Why would we want to short that very place set aside to be used only so both the rich and the poor come together to encounter and worship God?

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I like to bring up the example of the American parishes built by immigrants in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. These communities were often dirt poor Germans, Poles, Italians, etc, yet they still managed to build strikingly beautiful churches to glorify God

Indeed. People who think the Catholic church should sell off everything need to consider that the poor contributed to the building of that church and that every church ministers to the spiritual needs of the poor, the rich and everybody in between. Asking all Catholics to worship in a warehouse is taking way the carefully designed, specifically chosen art and furnishings that are rich in symbolism, and serve as a (sometimes cryptic,) catechism. That’s being taken from the poor, too. Sorry if I’m not crazy about the parish home of grandparents and that of my great-grandparents being gutted as though their’s and their neighbors’ sacrifices meant nothing.

I think it’s known that the poor are often more generous that the rich. When I visited the Nation Shrine in Washington, DC the tour guide mentioned that the biggest donors to the mosaic of the Triumphant Christ were from poorer countries. Let’s break this down: poorer countries made generous donations as a gift to the Shrine in a foreign land to honor the mother of Jesus. How insulting to those donors to suggest selling that off.

OP, no offence, but I’ll fight your mom over this.

 

[phil19034]

I look at it like this:

1. the treasures of the Catholic Church belong to the lay faithful, not the clergy. The poor Catholics over the centuries contributed the most to the creation of these beautiful Churches as a labor of love.
2. the VAST majority of the treasures of the Catholic Church were created by, purchased by, funded by the lay faithful. Clergy may have organized it, but the lay faithful provided the treasures as gifts to God
3. selling the treasures of the Church in order to give to the poor is the EXACT same thing Judas wanted to do when Jesus’ feet was being anointed. Jesus said we will ALWAYS have the poor. (This leads me to my next point)
4. if the Church sold all its treasure, land, etc. then what capital would exists to insure the Church could continue to help people get to Heaven? Yes, the Church helps the poor. But that’s not her primary mission, it’s a secondary mission. The primary mission is to help people get to heaven. Sometimes the Church sells off property in order to finance new Churches or to rebuild. If the Church sells off everything, there would be no assets to liquidate in order to keep the primary mission going
5. If the Catholic Church sold all its treasure and gave it all to the poor, then the poor would NEVER be able to experience artistic beauty. Poor people around the world are often shut out of museums, concerts halls, etc. but they can experience artistic beauty in a Catholic Church (esp in a Cathedral). And beauty is from God
6. there are COUNTLESS people who have had conversions of heart from worshiping in places like Notre Dame. How many countless people have allowed God to touch their hearts through sacared art over the centuries? I would bet it’s been millions.
7. finally, I think would be actually very selfish (and just like Judas) to sell rob future Christians of the 3rd Millennium of the opportunity to witness the beauty of the God through artistic expression simply because people in the 21st Century don’t want to PERSONALLY contribute more of our own money to the poor. Instead, we expect others like govt & the Church to provide all the help so we don’t have it lift a finger.

Remember - as Jesus said, we will ALWAYS have the poor. So even if the Catholic Church sold every single piece of land anf gave all the money to the poor; celebrating mass in people’s homes, parks, etc… guess what… the poor would still be with us.

God Bless

BTW - I find it funny that there is a BEAUTIFUL Church near me that was built by POOR Polish immigrants in 1950 that looks like it was built in the 1800s with tons of beauty. It was a Polish Personal Parish before closing in 2014 and eventually becoming a Latin Mass Parish - again so beautiful. I often compare it to a few other UGLY parishes built in the late 1950s and early 1960s in richer suburbs. I don’t fail to notice this… the poor people made BEAUTIFUL CHURCHES and took pride in what they built. The Rich Parishes on the other hand often did their best to cut cost and build the cheapest and financially efficient building they can… no wonder it’s difficult for the rich to get to Heaven.

 

[Annie]

I have read that if the Church sold everything and fed the poor with the money, the poor would be fed for only 6 days.

 

[DebCWil]

Dorothy Day, who worked with the poor responded to the question of the beautiful places for worship and asked, “Why should beautiful works of art be reserved for the rich?”

 

[OKComputer]

I understand what your mom is getting at, but in fairness to the church no one does more for the poor than Catholics. All churches really, but Catholics lead the way.

 

[LiveSkype]

Hi everyone!
Wow, I didn’t expect to see so much discussion about this! It’s great to see such a lively conversation about this. The big takeaways are these:

1. The Catholic Church is the LARGEST organization that contributes to the poor in the WORLD.
2. Many of these old beautiful older churches were built by the poor.
3. I shouldn’t argue with my mom.
   Here’s a few things that I would like to say about this whole situation:
4. My mom is not evil, I love her very much! Even though she was the one who married my dad after my biological mother passed away when I was 7, we just don’t see eye-to-eye on everything.
5. As I’ve said here before, I am autistic, and I don’t mind it when other people point out my odd behavior, but it only seems that my mom is the only one who does it all the time. I’ve brought it up with her that I don’t like her doing this to me, she still insists on doing it.
6. With that point in mind, I use my faith as a coping mechanism. Sadly, my mom mistakenly thinks that I try to be “all that and a bag of chips” when it comes to my faith. One good example is the Church choir in one of the parishes I went to. To me, I saw it as a form of worship to God, and in turn, I felt quite peaceful. Yet some of the people in said choir talked to my mom on a regular basis, and complained that my behavior was uncomfortable. I did not mean for it to come across this way; Yes, maybe I was a little too loud, but in the last point I made, I don’t mind other people pointing out my odd behavior, as long as they don’t over explain it. Rather than telling me, my mom would tell me. After asking which people were complaining, she told me, and I was heartbroken. They seemed to be very nice to my face, but since they wanted to be polite, they didn’t say anything directly to me.
7. Church buildings fall under the same category of my faith. When I was younger, we went to a parish that had a pretty new building at the time (said building was built about 14 years ago). On the outside, my dad almost thought that it was another outlet mall being built, as the parish hall and CCD classrooms were built as this long corridor. As for the sanctuary, It it was TOO MINIMALIST! Having been built in that modern amphitheater style, and the tabernacle off to the side in such a way that if it wasn’t for that risky-dink stained glass window, you wouldn’t know it was there! (thanks a lot Vatican II! You made it so we can’t have nice things!). The walls were painted white, the pews looked rather marginal, and save for one in the back and that other one I mentioned earlier, there were no pretty stained glass windows, and the statues of the saints were minimalist, too. This left my 12-year-old autistic mind ended up looking at the trees outside or the bolts in the rafters during Sunday Mass, which was BORING! (don’t worry, now I pay attention, but my eyes still do wander.) And to think, my parents’ wedding was like the second or third matrimonial ceremony held there since the parish opened the new building, so although it was a happy day for me, you can only put in so many flower arrangements!

 

[Bruised_Reed]

This left my 12-year-old autistic mind ended up looking at the trees outside or the bolts in the rafters during Sunday Mass, which was BORING!

I’m a visual person and the stained glass and statues passively kept my mind on God. One church I used to go to had stained glass and there was symbolism there but you had to know about and even then it really didn’t help. The windows have colors found in nature in that region and the are seven circles/dots that represent the seven sacraments. The windows could be removed and be instslled at the local Unitarian universalist church or a secular building and offend no one. So I get it.

 

[niceatheist]

I have read that if the Church sold everything and fed the poor with the money, the poor would be fed for only 6 days.

That’s the most important answer to this question. So if the Catholic Church sold all its buildings, even if it fed the poor for a year, or heck even ten years, then what? The Church would have no possessions, and there would be poor again.

For an example of how “selling the farm” ultimately doesn’t help the poor, look at Venezuela, where the Chavistas dumped billions into helping the poor, but with no plan for sustainability. Oil prices plunge, now there’s no financial reserve, and the poor are actually worse off.

The Church should do its part to pressure governments and society at large to contribute to aiding the poor; not just feeding them, but assisting them to become self-sufficient. The Church does a considerable amount of charitable work, and most of the parishes I am familiar with are hardly bastions of wealth.

 

[Annie]

Lovely comment with several good points

 

[Annie]

Yet some of the people in said choir talked to my mom on a regular basis, and complained that my behavior was uncomfortable. I did not mean for it to come across this way; Yes, maybe I was a little too loud, but in the last point I made, I don’t mind other people pointing out my odd behavior, as long as they don’t over explain it. Rather than telling me, my mom would tell me. After asking which people were complaining, she told me, and I was heartbroken. They seemed to be very nice to my face, but since they wanted to be polite, they didn’t say anything directly to me.

I work with someone who is on the spectrum (and who does not know I know this). I would not say anything directly about his behavior to him because he and I are equals in our organization.

If there were a real problem, I would go to our boss about it, because of our being on the same level at work. Your fellow choir members probably feel similarly, and possibly also understand that you may not have full control over your actions or full understanding of what you are doing. Rather than discuss it with you and possibly messing the conversation up, they figure your mom has the best idea of whether or how to approach you about something.

They are trying to be kind, not break your heart! And the fact they took the time to talk to your mother about it shows they like you, so they are being genuine in their behavior towards you.

You may be able to make this easier by being upfront: just say something like, “Because I have autism, sometimes I don’t realize I am acting inappropriately. You could help me by pointing it out to me. Just say, ‘Knock it off, kiddo,’ or ‘That is the type of behavior that makes people feel uncomfortable.’”

I find that if I try to include something humorous or lighthearted, people are more relaxed about it

 

[LiveSkype]

They are trying to be kind, not break your heart! And the fact they took the time to talk to your mother about it shows they like you, so they are being genuine in their behavior towards you.

There’s actually more to this story; I felt like I was acting reverent, while the other members in my choir came across as that type of “holier than thou” kind of attitude because I was being overdramatic (which I literally didn’t realize until right now was part of my autism, despite being told for years and years to stop acting in such a way!).
I was also telling these people things that I overheard my mother talking to my dad about, and now at least one person doesn’t want to talk to her (my mom) anymore. And this person went to high school with my mom! (This was about 4 years ago, so I don’t think it’s worth writing an apology letter to her).
Oh well, at least I no longer go to that parish anymore.

 

[DeniseNY]

but is it keeping you from building your congregations or even keeping it open and relevant? Or from serving the needy?

It’s already been stated that the Church gives more to charity than any other organization. If having beautiful churches keeps people from wanting to consider becoming Catholic, that’s a teaching opportunity; not a reason to dismantle our buildings.