My most recent Novus Ordo experience

[zab]

But only in English? You are satisfied with just one (name removed by moderator)ut? Through only hearing a language so full of homophones and lack of precision, no less? Don’t you think that two (name removed by moderator)uts, such as Latin and English, or English and Spanish for that matter, would provide a more memorable imprint on the mind? (What happened to stereo? )

I don’t think Vatican II limited people to hearing Mass only as a translation, as that’s all the English is. In fact, Vatican II sought to retain Latin in the liturgy with perhaps limited translations. It’s okay to appreciate the Church offering a complete translation for us but it’s okay to seek the source of the truth too, I would think.

Are you asking me or are you trying to put words in my mouth? With the Mass being said in the vernacular, it is laudable to have some parts of the Mass in Latin and our parish is one that does this. And I appreciate having the Kyrie in Greek, the Sanctus, Agnus Dei and Pater Noster in Latin as well as singing some of the hymns and Gregorian Chant in Latin. But I also appreciate hearing the priest pray the Eucharistic prayers and other prayers in English.

 

[ConstantineTG]

But only in English? You are satisfied with just one (name removed by moderator)ut? Through only hearing a language so full of homophones and lack of precision, no less? Don’t you think that two (name removed by moderator)uts, such as Latin and English, or English and Spanish for that matter, would provide a more memorable imprint on the mind? (What happened to stereo? )

I don’t think Vatican II limited people to hearing Mass only as a translation, as that’s all the English is. In fact, Vatican II sought to retain Latin in the liturgy with perhaps limited translations. It’s okay to appreciate the Church offering a complete translation for us but it’s okay to seek the source of the truth too, I would think.

I think we’re pretty much in the same boat. I gave the EF a try twice. The first one was great, but the second one somehow had diminished effects for me. At one point I wasn’t even into the Mass anymore as I was trying to figure out where we are in the Mass.

On the contrary, two days later I finally made it to Divine Liturgy in English. I felt at home right off the bat. Also my wife who refuses to go to Latin Mass because its in Latin has agreed to go with me to Divine Liturgy once a month. We’ll still go to our OF parish all the other times, but First Sunday of the month is now Divine Liturgy day for us.

This is not a knock on the EF. Language is indeed a stumbling block for most people. Its not a measure of the EF but just that we as people are limited in different ways and for some they want to worship God in their own tongue.

 

[ConstantineTG]

We have an Eastern Catholic who regularly attends Mass at our abbey since in our rural area there is no Eastern parish.

He stands for the consecration. He even crosses himself three times backwards… I had to ask my spiritual director about that “weird guy who crosses himself backwards” who’s there every Sunday. He set me straight.

But you should remind him of the rule, when in Rome do as the Romans do
I don’t kneel at Eastern Liturgies, and I cross myself the other way when I’m there too.

We have a parish close to where I live where people remain standing for Consecration. I too was bewildered when it happened. I was with my mom and we were looking at each other. My knee actually bent like 3 times and each time I realize no one was kneeling. I just followed what everyone was doing. When in Rome…

 

[h1478971]

join the club. That is what most of the OF Masses are like and that is why we don’t go to them. My Advice is, stay away. When there are weddings we usually avoid the OF wedding we go to the reception instead. During funerals we go to the wake and avoid the Eucharistic celebration, canonization of the deceased by the priest.

God Bless.

 

[ConstantineTG]

join the club. That is what most of the OF Masses are like and that is why we don’t go to them. My Advice is, stay away. When there are weddings we usually avoid the OF wedding we go to the reception instead. During funerals we go to the wake and avoid the Eucharistic celebration, canonization of the deceased by the priest.

God Bless.

Thats not fair. I know many reverently celebrated OF Masses. Lets not make blanket statements here.

 

[zab]

join the club. That is what most of the OF Masses are like and that is why we don’t go to them. My Advice is, stay away. When there are weddings we usually avoid the OF wedding we go to the reception instead. During funerals we go to the wake and avoid the Eucharistic celebration, canonization of the deceased by the priest.

God Bless.

How sad.

 

[zab]

I was just thinking of the Holy Hour of Reparation and the part where we adore Jesus throughout all the tabernacles of the world especially in the places where He is abandoned or forgotten. Isn’t it a similar abandonment by those who refuse to attend Mass when they have the opportunity because they do not like this priest or that one or the way the Mass is said in that church? Jesus is still present and being shunned by those who supposedly love Him.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I was just thinking of the Holy Hour of Reparation and the part where we adore Jesus throughout all the tabernacles of the world especially in the places where He is abandoned or forgotten. Isn’t it a similar abandonment by those who refuse to attend Mass when they have the opportunity because they do not like this priest or that one or the way the Mass is said in that church? Jesus is still present and being shunned by those who supposedly love Him.

A priest once told me that its permissible to miss Mass if there are abuses and you feel that the abuses are detrimental to your faith (can’t remember the exact words he used). BUT, if you are in places where there are other parishes, its not an excuse if you have reasonable access to another parish.

And coming from that statement, its also not a valid excuse to simply rule of the OF entirely just because a few are abused. If there is indeed abuse in one parish then move to the next (my adivce would be to fight the abuse, but thats just me). To say that you doubt the validity of the OF or think that all the OF is abusive even without evidence that specific parishes or priests abuse the liturgy is not an excuse.

 

[thistle]

join the club. That is what most of the OF Masses are like and that is why we don’t go to them. ** My Advice is, stay away**. When there are weddings we usually avoid the OF wedding we go to the reception instead. During funerals we go to the wake and avoid the Eucharistic celebration, canonization of the deceased by the priest.

God Bless.

Why are you telling people to stay away from a VALID Mass? That’s disobedience to the Church. If you have your own personal preference, so be it, but what you are publicly saying is bad.

 

[ProVobis]

Why are you telling people to stay away from a VALID Mass? That’s disobedience to the Church. If you have your own personal preference, so be it, but what you are publicly saying is bad.

There’s that disobedience card again.

There are a lot of illicit but valid Masses, or sometimes what we see as illicit. (SSPX, for example). Or even with constant abuses. There are a whole lot of posters who advise not to go to these Masses.

 

[PatrickSebast]

Indeed.

As did Archbishop Cranmer and all the other Reformers.

Yes, reformers certainly did seem to have a problem with following the Church’s instructions on how the Mass could be said and really liked to extol their own versions while frequently putting down the celebration method of the common Catholic. What a shame.

 

[thistle]

There’s that disobedience card again.

There are a lot of illicit but valid Masses, or sometimes what we see as illicit. (SSPX, for example). Or even with constant abuses. There are a whole lot of posters who advise not to go to these Masses.

So we have to accept at face value about abuses from the constant moaners and groaners who frequent these forums??
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? In this forum it seems the priest is always guilty without having a chance to defend himself. The moaners and groaners say they didn’t name the priest. Big deal. They are simply cowards. I haven’t heard any of those people tell us they spoke to a priest after a Mass to politely ask about their concerns. They just rush home, log-in and start a thread complaining and complaining and the gullible here assume they are telling the truth.
Shame on people who do this to the priests.

 

[ConstantineTG]

So we have to accept at face value about abuses from the constant moaners and groaners who frequent these forums??
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? In this forum it seems the priest is always guilty without having a chance to defend himself. The moaners and groaners say they didn’t name the priest. Big deal. They are simply cowards. I haven’t heard any of those people tell us they spoke to a priest after a Mass to politely ask about their concerns. They just rush home, log-in and start a thread complaining and complaining and the gullible here assume they are telling the truth.
Shame on people who do this to the priests.

I agree. No one’s denying that there are abuses but this kind of attitude you describe here doesn’t help the problem. It only creates a rift between traditional Catholics and the rest of Roman Catholics. As Catholics we shouldn’t only be interested in a well-celebrated Mass, we should also be interested in a unified Church.

 

[mick321]

Why are you telling people to stay away from a VALID Mass? That’s disobedience to the Church. If you have your own personal preference, so be it, but what you are publicly saying is bad.

Regardless of anyone’s personal preferences, what PRIESTS are saying publicly in many, many OF masses is WORSE than bad. That these “celebrations” are deemed VALID is an embarrassment to the Church and a blight on everything Catholic.

 

[mick321]

I agree. No one’s denying that there are abuses but this kind of attitude you describe here doesn’t help the problem. It only creates a rift between traditional Catholics and the rest of Roman Catholics. As Catholics we shouldn’t only be interested in a well-celebrated Mass, we should also be interested in a unified Church.

The rift is not between traditional Catholics and Roman Catholics. It is between genuine Catholics and Modernists, regardless of denomination. Genuine Catholics are - first and foremost - interested in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Everything else - and anything less - is just waiting.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The rift is not between traditional Catholics and Roman Catholics. It is between genuine Catholics and Modernists, regardless of denomination. Genuine Catholics are - first and foremost - interested in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Everything else - and anything less - is just waiting.

When someone identify themselves as a traditionalist and questions V2 and the validity of the OF, that is going against Roman Catholics

 

[Bbigam]

I’ve never seen any abuses in the Latin NO, not that it can’t be done, but the people who show up seem to be more serious about their faith. Maybe that’s why the Church is trying to push some Latin into each liturgy?

Could well be. I would love to see many more OF Masses available in Latin. In fact, it would be wonderful to actually have the opportunity to attend one someday, I’m sure I would love it! I would probably make a Latin OF the Mass I would regularly attend. I just don’t think Latin should be the only option.

Regardless of anyone’s personal preferences, what PRIESTS are saying publicly in many, many OF masses is WORSE than bad. That these “celebrations” are deemed VALID is an embarrassment to the Church and a blight on everything Catholic.

Whoa, no! The abuses and irreverence are certainly an embarrassment. It’s embarrassing that these abuses are done in the presence of Our Eucharistic Lord. But the fact that they are still valid is a testament to the importance of the Sacraments of Holy Orders and the Eucharist, and to the grace of God still using even those gravely disobedient priests.

 

[ProVobis]

So we have to accept at face value about abuses from the constant moaners and groaners who frequent these forums??
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? In this forum it seems the priest is always guilty without having a chance to defend himself.

Perhaps, but it’s not always the priest who is at fault. There is perhaps a community and culture mindset the priest has to adapt to as well. Priests have likes and dislikes as to where they are appointed by the bishops too.

 

[ProVobis]

I just don’t think Latin should be the only option.

I don’t understand these types of complaints. Latin is seldom heard in Churches. Sort of wimpy if you can’t tolerate a simple Agnus Dei or O Salutaris Hostia in Latin while you have almost your entire Mass in a “language you can understand” excluding folks who don’t speak that language.

 

[ProVobis]

As Catholics we shouldn’t only be interested in a well-celebrated Mass, we should also be interested in a unified Church.

Thank you.

From the Baltimore Catechism:

**Q. 566. Why does the Church use the Latin language instead of the national language of its children?

A. The Church uses the Latin language instead of the national language of its children:

1. To avoid the danger of changing any part of its teaching in using different languages;
2. That all its rulers may be perfectly united and understood in their communications;
3. To show that the Church is not an institute of any particular nation, but the guide of all nations.**