My mother is pro-abortion--advice please?

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I am strongly pro-life and have lately felt that this is the area where God is calling me to serve more actively. The problem I am having is that my mother, who is in her late sixties, is getting more and more vocally pro-abortion lately. She is not Catholic, as I am a convert. But she also argues with pro-life people at her own church.

When she has brought it up recently I have been somewhat shocked and didn’t make a decent response. I didn’t agree with her premises, which are the usual there are too many unwanted kids, teens shouldn’t be parents, etc. etc. But I am struggling with respecting her as my mother and not wanting to get into huge arguments with her late in her life, versus standing up for God’s way and what I believe in. My dad just died last August, so this is one reason I think I am so reluctant to “get into it” with her.

Anyway, my daughter is joining the pro-life group at her Catholic high school next year. I know the issue will keep coming up. I also don’t want my daughter to feel conflicted between her beliefs and Grandma. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with close family members who are polar opposites to you on this issue?
 
AnotherChance said:
I am strongly pro-life and have lately felt that this is the area where God is calling me to serve more actively. The problem I am having is that my mother, who is in her late sixties, is getting more and more vocally pro-abortion lately. She is not Catholic, as I am a convert. But she also argues with pro-life people at her own church.

When she has brought it up recently I have been somewhat shocked and didn’t make a decent response. I didn’t agree with her premises, which are the usual there are too many unwanted kids, teens shouldn’t be parents, etc. etc. But I am struggling with respecting her as my mother and not wanting to get into huge arguments with her late in her life, versus standing up for God’s way and what I believe in. My dad just died last August, so this is one reason I think I am so reluctant to “get into it” with her.

Anyway, my daughter is joining the pro-life group at her Catholic high school next year. I know the issue will keep coming up. I also don’t want my daughter to feel conflicted between her beliefs and Grandma. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with close family members who are polar opposites to you on this issue?
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I think all you can do is 1) Tell her you won’t stand criticism of your daughter on this issue 2) Try and avoid the subject 3) Pray for her conversion, on this issue, and all issues of faith.

God Bless
 
bilop said:
I think all you can do is 1) Tell her you won’t stand criticism of your daughter on this issue 2) Try and avoid the subject 3) Pray for her conversion, on this issue, and all issues of faith.

God Bless
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This is stellar advice; allow me to add
Prayer joined to sacrifice constitutes the most powerful force in human history.
Pope John Paul II
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Why not use the most powerful force?
 
I think this is an outstanding learning moment for your daughter. If she is pro life then it would be good for her to learn how to defend that position.

Keeping them apart on this issue is doing neither of them any good. Your mother needs to hear the truth from someone she loves, and your daughter needs to learn how to stick up for the truth, regardless of who she may be talking to.

Check this out as well: www.thecostofabortion.com

This is a non-religious look at the cost of abortion to our country and society. It may be a way of presenting this to your mother in a non-Catholic way if the Catholic point of view is turning her off. The message is the same regardless of what you believe or don’t believe, but for some reason when some folks hear “Catholic” they instantly turn their ears off and refuse to listen to ANYTHING.

~Liza
 
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. Of course prayer is always a powerful remedy! Thanks for reminding me. I checked out the cost of abortion site, so that will be good for a purely social costs type argument which will probably reach my mother better.

She is one of those unusual women who has bought into a lot of the feminist arguments, even though she herself lived a life as a protected housewife. I, on the other hand, who believed a lot of the feminist lies she and others taught me, know that that route leads to enormous pain. It’s a weird situation where the child has learned the hard way, where the parent has not. In other areas, I have learned from her wisdom, but not in this one. Thanks again for your help.
 
I’d say to avoid the subject, and tell your daughter not to argue with Grandma. If the pressure gets too great, advise her to ask, “Grandma, would you have wanted Mom to abort me?”
 
vern_humphrey said:
I’d say to avoid the subject, and tell your daughter not to argue with Grandma. If the pressure gets too great, advise her to ask, “Grandma, would you have wanted Mom to abort me?”
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OUCH!. Good one, Vern.

Bilop’s advice is indeed stellar.
 
A lot of people from that era seem to be like this…I think it shows a real lack of compassion, but they feel it shows great compassion

Their thinking is twisted…I once read this…for people that don’t like abortion don’t have one, is equal to saying, if you don’t like slavery don’t own one…same type of thinking that it’s OK to do away with certain peoples rights

Pray for her and encourage your daughter to stay on the right path
 
Mother Teresa had much to say about this…

iol.ie/~hlii/theresa.html

One of her most poignant quotes, which cuts to the heart of the matter, was this:

“It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you can live as you wish”

Think about that…
 
AnotherChance said:
I. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with close family members who are polar opposites to you on this issue?
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If she starts with her pro-abortion arguments with you, you could always say…
“I’m glad you didn’t feel that way when you were pregnant with me.”
And see if that doesn’t sober her up some. 🙂
 
Just to reiterrate what other posters have already suggested , esp. with regard to power of prayer.

We , more often than not have a tendency to trust in our own capacity to change hearts !

And may be forget the depth and complexity of our soul and psyche , that is made in The Image of The Infinite !

Thus , when we turn to our Lord, augmented with prayer of the one who has been given the role of Mother , of this other rperson that we want to help , things could be easier , for the intended and the many others too , whom that MOther can touch !

Having discovered the joy and power of ’ personal Rosary’ - one whole rosary, in union with and for that one person that we owe it to or need it , ( and all others that Bl.Mother wants to) now wonder why it took so long on my part to do so !

This, after having heard , how many parents do so , for their dear ones !

St.Faustina, servant of God Pope John paul 11 , may be Apostle St.Matthias , the one who replaced Judas ( since he has to be considered as antitheses of everything that Judas stood for !) can all be powerful intercessors of this cause !

Judas could not recognise the divinity and goodness of our Lord ! Once he realised that our Lord was not about power and riches of this world, Judas had no use for Him ! Thus, devaluing goodness itself,and upholding the name and fame of this world, Judas could only fall into despair and self destruction when those empty things failed him !

Many who choose to destroy life fall into the same trap !

St.Matthias was with our Lord from the beginnig ; seems he was content to be in the background , loving and serving our Lord , like the many good mothers, parents and priests and religious who continue same in our own times !

Hope that the trials and efforts , for the cause of the least will be blessed and very pleasing to our Lord !
 
AnotherChance said:
Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with close family members who are polar opposites to you on this issue?
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My mom changed her mind after a couple years of watching EWTN. Now if only I can get her to vote pro-life…
If your mom is Christian, go for Scripture quotes like Psalm 139 or
What part of “Thou shalt not kill” don’t you understand?
 
Is a person more a person in one place than another? For example, are you more human at my house than at yours? No. Location doesn’t matter. Neither does it matter if one is in the womb or out of it.
Is a person more a person when they are 60 than when they were 10? No. A person is as human at one age as another. Development has nothing to do with personhood. So an embryo is as much a person as a newborn as is an adult.

the SLED acronym(Size, Level of Development, Environment, Degree of Dependency:) works with secular folks. This is the link:
str.org/site/DocServer/2.1_four_top_arguments.pdf?docID=861
 
bettyg51 said:
Is a person more a person in one place than another? For example, are you more human at my house than at yours? No. Location doesn’t matter. Neither does it matter if one is in the womb or out of it.
Is a person more a person when they are 60 than when they were 10? No. A person is as human at one age as another. Development has nothing to do with personhood. So an embryo is as much a person as a newborn as is an adult.

the SLED acronym(Size, Level of Development, Environment, Degree of Dependency:) works with secular folks. This is the link:
str.org/site/DocServer/2.1_four_top_arguments.pdf?docID=861
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You put it very well. It seems so obvious to me when I look at my 7-month old baby, that if someone had forced me to get an abortion against my will when I was pregnant; this beautiful child would, God forbid, be dead. Why is that any different than someone killing him today?

This has always been instinctive to me. I am a convert and the Episcopal church of my youth never mentioned abortion one way or another. But I have always just been naturally anti-abortion. That is one reason why I guess it is so disturbing when my own mother thinks killing babies is OK. I don’t understand the mindset at all.
 
Hi,
I’m currently enrolled in Catholic Moral Thought in my university and we have gone over abortion a bit.

For the sake of 3/4 types of abortion not permitted by the church I’ll try to establish a point.

Firstly let’s set up a basic transitive statement:

It is immoral to kill an innocent person
A human embryo at any stage is a person

Therefore, it is immoral to kill a human embryo.

Before we can agree with the statement we need to define what a person is. It was a pro-choicer who put forward these qualifications to personhood and I believe that they’ll work well here.
  1. Must be rational
  2. Must be conscious (able to feel pain).
  3. Must be able to communicate through langauge
  4. Must be self aware
  5. Must have freedom of choice
Now, we can hopefully agree that you don’t need to be actively using all of these, mainly because putting someone under a general anesthetic then murdering them is still immoral.

So we’ll tack a 6th one on there and it will be:
6. Must have the potential to display the 5 characteristics.

So, when we think about it logically an embryo has the ability to do all these times with enough time and food.

But also, you mentioned that your mother attends Church, hopefully she realizes that every human being has a dignity that has been intrinsically intertwined with them for being formed in the image of God, something that should protect them from being killed because of they may be burdensome.

Hope this helps.

-Conall Cernach
 
ConallCernach said:
Hi,
I’m currently enrolled in Catholic Moral Thought in my university and we have gone over abortion a bit.

For the sake of 3/4 types of abortion not permitted by the church I’ll try to establish a point.

Firstly let’s set up a basic transitive statement:

It is immoral to kill an innocent person
A human embryo at any stage is a person

Therefore, it is immoral to kill a human embryo.

Before we can agree with the statement we need to define what a person is. It was a pro-choicer who put forward these qualifications to personhood and I believe that they’ll work well here.
  1. Must be rational
  2. Must be conscious (able to feel pain).
  3. Must be able to communicate through langauge
  4. Must be self aware
  5. Must have freedom of choice
Now, we can hopefully agree that you don’t need to be actively using all of these, mainly because putting someone under a general anesthetic then murdering them is still immoral.

So we’ll tack a 6th one on there and it will be:
6. Must have the potential to display the 5 characteristics.

So, when we think about it logically an embryo has the ability to do all these times with enough time and food.

But also, you mentioned that your mother attends Church, hopefully she realizes that every human being has a dignity that has been intrinsically intertwined with them for being formed in the image of God, something that should protect them from being killed because of they may be burdensome.

Hope this helps.

-Conall Cernach
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Yes, I think next time it comes up I will mention this idea of the embryo either possessing, or having the potential to possess all of these traits. Thank you.

I wasn’t sure what you meant by “3/4 types of abortion not permitted by the church”. I thought the Church prohibited virtually all abortion?

Regarding the list put out by pro-choice movement: If the pro-abortion people truly follow this list, they would have to think that it is OK to kill severly retarded children.
 
😛
ConallCernach said:
Hi,
I’m currently enrolled in Catholic Moral Thought in my university and we have gone over abortion a bit.

For the sake of 3/4 types of abortion not permitted by the church I’ll try to establish a point.

Firstly let’s set up a basic transitive statement:

It is immoral to kill an innocent person
A human embryo at any stage is a person

Therefore, it is immoral to kill a human embryo.

Before we can agree with the statement we need to define what a person is. It was a pro-choicer who put forward these qualifications to personhood and I believe that they’ll work well here.
  1. Must be rational
  2. Must be conscious (able to feel pain).
  3. Must be able to communicate through langauge
  4. Must be self aware
  5. Must have freedom of choice
Now, we can hopefully agree that you don’t need to be actively using all of these, mainly because putting someone under a general anesthetic then murdering them is still immoral.

So we’ll tack a 6th one on there and it will be:
6. Must have the potential to display the 5 characteristics.

So, when we think about it logically an embryo has the ability to do all these times with enough time and food.

But also, you mentioned that your mother attends Church, hopefully she realizes that every human being has a dignity that has been intrinsically intertwined with them for being formed in the image of God, something that should protect them from being killed because of they may be burdensome.

Hope this helps.

-Conall Cernach
Click to expand...
I’m pro choice and the reason the above doesn’t work for me is that the fetus must be able to do these things at the time of the abortion, not just some time in the future. For example, if there is no consciousness and no ability to feel pain at the time of the abortion, the fact that there would be in the future is moot, IMO. I realize you don’t agree but thought I’d tell you why I and probably most pro-choice folks would have a problem with your argument.

As for the folks in PVS, comas, etc., the reason the sentientcy issue does not apply to them IMO is that they have/had the capacity for such in that their brains and consciousness are in the “operating” stage at birth. IOW, these things take affect at birth.
 
AnotherChance said:
I am strongly pro-life and have lately felt that this is the area where God is calling me to serve more actively. The problem I am having is that my mother, who is in her late sixties, is getting more and more vocally pro-abortion lately. She is not Catholic, as I am a convert. But she also argues with pro-life people at her own church.

When she has brought it up recently I have been somewhat shocked and didn’t make a decent response. I didn’t agree with her premises, which are the usual there are too many unwanted kids, teens shouldn’t be parents, etc. etc. But I am struggling with respecting her as my mother and not wanting to get into huge arguments with her late in her life, versus standing up for God’s way and what I believe in. My dad just died last August, so this is one reason I think I am so reluctant to “get into it” with her.

Anyway, my daughter is joining the pro-life group at her Catholic high school next year. I know the issue will keep coming up. I also don’t want my daughter to feel conflicted between her beliefs and Grandma. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with close family members who are polar opposites to you on this issue?
Click to expand...
I hate to say this, but consider that she could possibly be concealing an abortion in her past. What else would provide the impetus for such a strong position? She might be attempting to justify herself out of unresolved guilt.

Anyway, ask her why she thinks she has the right, after creating you in the marital act, to kill you for the sake of convenience. Bet she’s against the death penalty, too, huh? How does she reconcile those two?

Christ’s peace and healing.

Christ’s peace.
 
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