My neice is playing online games with occult themes?

[Havard]

I think you need to educate yourself in basic semiotics and realize the hollow emptiness of the symbol you’re overreacting too.

I’ve seen that symbol used a dozen times in plenty of RPGs. It’s just a symbol to stand for magic. End of story. Imposing the whole goat’s head analysis is no more insightful than a chemistry nerd complaining about Stan Lee’s use of gamma radiation.

Hold up a second. You’re claiming that that symbol has no specific connotations in fantasy fiction and RPG’s other than plain, neutral magic? Come on now. I’ve got tons of examples from the most popular fantasy games that would beg to differ. It may be depicted neutrally some times, but it’s dark/demonic at least half of the time, and never (in my experience) holy.

 

[Job42]

Your opinion =/= Moral imperative. Stop giving people the false impression that a few emotional willies from seeing images is a substitute for rational thought.

I never said my opinion was a moral imperative. I just gave this person my advice just like you did two posts after mine. Also I am quite the rational thinker, that is why I have come to this particular conclusion about the occult.

Merry Christmas.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Hold up a second. You’re claiming that that symbol has no specific connotations in fantasy fiction and RPG’s other than plain, neutral magic? Come on now. I’ve got tons of examples from the most popular fantasy games that would beg to differ. It may be depicted neutrally some times, but it’s dark/demonic at least half of the time, and never (in my experience) holy.

The pentagram? Yes I claim it and I’ll claim it again. You got examples? I’ve got mine. In fact, you claiming in turn that it’s only been for at least half the time already proves my point. The logical inconsistency between uses is enough to destroy the inherent value of any symbol. The cross is no exception (coughformer-execution-devicecough) The swastika isn’t either.

The pentagram is no different. Proven fact.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I never said my opinion was a moral imperative. I just gave this person my advice just like you did two posts after mine. Also I am quite the rational thinker, that is why I have come to this particular conclusion about the occult.

Merry Christmas.

Emotional willies? Personal interpretation about hollow symbols? You call that rational?

 

[Job42]

Emotional willies? Personal interpretation about hollow symbols? You call that rational?

Those are your words not mine.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It’s just a creative title. You’re being awfully scrupulous about this.

I’ve called myself a Hellfire Warlock numerous times (it’s my favorite DnD prestige class). You won’t see people asking me if I worship Satan.

One of my favorite RPG characters is called Jade the Necromancer. You won’t see me digging up corpses in the hopes of reanimating them. (In fact, the character himself is not even a Necromancer at all. It’s just a title given to him because his enemies think him creepy.)

I see nothing wrong with famtasy and magic so long as the story does not give the reader a crash course in wiccan or occult rituals. The other thing is this…words are powerful. Why would I refer to myself as anything to do with Hell/Satan/Necromancer? I don’t think we should be trivializing evil at all to that extent. Just my thoughts

 

[nickybr38]

I see nothing wrong with famtasy and magic so long as the story does not give the reader a crash course in wiccan or occult rituals. The other thing is this…words are powerful. Why would I refer to myself as anything to do with Hell/Satan/Necromancer? I don’t think we should be trivializing evil at all to that extent. Just my thoughts

Words DO mean something. Just as we shouldn’t take the Lord’s name in vain, we shouldn’t be carelessly using words associated with evil things carelessly either. Not out of respect for the evil thing but because it’s better not to be associated with such things.

Just my two cents.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Those are your words not mine.

I suggest you review your latest responses.

Why would I refer to myself as anything to do with Hell/Satan/Necromancer? I don’t think we should be trivializing evil at all to that extent. Just my thoughts

Do real-life necromancers exist? Do they summon hordes of undead minions? Are they capable of summoning a humongous bolt of lightning that deals XXXXX damage across a wide area?

In fact, where is the immorality in what they do? I kill a bandit out to have my head and then reanimate his corpse to attack his other mates (who also want my head). That’s self-defense. It’s no different than gunning a man down in the midst of battle and then using his body as a meat shield, distraction, or a makeshift projectile.

Heck I play M:TG and my deck is actually a full-blown necromancer deck through and through. You don’t see me dabbling in witch doctor junk.

Words are empty. I studied linguistics. I should know. The only power they have is what society emphasizes. Tell me, does the letter G take on a nice glowing quality every time it’s been used?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Words DO mean something.

Sorry, they don’t. They only mean something because society says so. You can’t deny that terms change overtime. You want a good example? Look at the slur words people have used against homosexuals. You’ll find that they have some rather unrelated origins.

 

[nickybr38]

Sorry, they don’t. They only mean something because society says so. You can’t deny that terms change overtime. You want a good example? Look at the slur words people have used against homosexuals. You’ll find that they have some rather unrelated origins.

So you go around using the Lord’s name in vain? And using Jesus Christ as a cuss word?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

So you go around using the Lord’s name in vain? And using Jesus Christ as a cuss word?

No but only cuz I have a unique, cartoony way of swearing. Honestly, this is getting off topic. If you read the Catechism, you’ll find most if not all elaboration on “not taking the Lord’s name in vain” is about fidelity to oaths in court. I hardly see anything regarding the use of words.

P.S.

Looked up the homosexual slur words yet?

 

[ElectricBlue]

The pentagram? Yes I claim it and I’ll claim it again. You got examples? I’ve got mine. In fact, you claiming in turn that it’s only been for at least half the time already proves my point. The logical inconsistency between uses is enough to destroy the inherent value of any symbol. The cross is no exception (coughformer-execution-devicecough) The swastika isn’t either.

The pentagram is no different. Proven fact.

Um just my little 2 cents but the pentagram has been used long before Christianity. Egypt and many other lands have ancient records of it’s use as a symbol of pagan rebirth and such. I think that the prevalence of certain symbols in popular games and stuff should not be dismissed so easily as just saying they are all meaningless. If they were then the same old symbols would not be showing up all the time. Clearly they have meaning to some people just as the crucifix with Jesus on the cross has meaning to us christians.

I agree with someone’s comment about apathy in the UK amnong the young esp. It’s present in the US too so alot of occult ideas like sorcery and divination, necromancy and other occult things are displayed in games, movies and stuff and the young people just gobble it up because it looks cool.

One thing that I found strange is the prevalence of the skull symbol over the last 5 years or so in the west. The skull has always been known as a symbol of death. Even in the bible golgotha was the place of death/the skull. Why is it hip now for christians to where a death symbol if it isn’t tied to Christ’s death?

Just my thoughts

 

[nickybr38]

No but only cuz I have a unique, cartoony way of swearing. Honestly, this is getting off topic. If you read the Catechism, you’ll find most if not all elaboration on “not taking the Lord’s name in vain” is about fidelity to oaths in court. I hardly see anything regarding the use of words.

Right. So you think it’s perfectly okay to use Jesus Christ as a swear word then?

I’d suggest you speak to your priest and ask him if words mean nothing. We aren’t bible only Christians, we are Catholic. We have Scripture but also Tradition and I would dare you to find a Church document that says using the Lord’s name as a cuss word is okay.

You push and push and push to de-demonize things that have no place being de-demonized. Before they were used for evil they were neutral and meant nothing. Now they make us think of things and are associated with things that we, as Christians, have no business being associated with. No matter how you try to rationalize you want to eat the food offered to idols and you’re pretty darned irritated that your fellow Christians refuse to join in (or at least that’s how it looks).

But I’m not going to discuss this with you. You’re about as stubborn as a mule (and I don’t mean that in an offensive way, I’m just as stubborn if not more. ) and it’d be a waste of time for us both.

 

[nickybr38]

No but only cuz I have a unique, cartoony way of swearing. Honestly, this is getting off topic. If you read the Catechism, you’ll find most if not all elaboration on “not taking the Lord’s name in vain” is about fidelity to oaths in court. I hardly see anything regarding the use of words.

P.S.

Looked up the homosexual slur words yet?

PS: Homosexual slur words are slur words now. Just because they meant something different before doesn’t mean they’re acceptable to use now. These days they mean something different but we live NOW, not then, so we have to be mindful of what they mean NOW (doesn’t matter what they meant then because we live in the now, not the then).

 

[Job42]

But we live in a particular culture in a particular space and time, and in that culture a given symbol/word definitely has a specific power and meaning that can be good or bad. A red octogon means stop, a green circle w/ a guy sticking his toungue out means poison, and a five-pointed star with a circle around it in most peoples’ minds is associated with Satanism or Wicca.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I suggest you review your latest responses.

Do real-life necromancers exist? Do they summon hordes of undead minions? Are they capable of summoning a humongous bolt of lightning that deals XXXXX damage across a wide area?

In fact, where is the immorality in what they do? I kill a bandit out to have my head and then reanimate his corpse to attack his other mates (who also want my head). That’s self-defense. It’s no different than gunning a man down in the midst of battle and then using his body as a meat shield, distraction, or a makeshift projectile.

Heck I play M:TG and my deck is actually a full-blown necromancer deck through and through. You don’t see me dabbling in witch doctor junk.

Words are empty. I studied linguistics. I should know. The only power they have is what society emphasizes. Tell me, does the letter G take on a nice glowing quality every time it’s been used?

Don’t mean to be rude but you are not making much sense. Reanimating corpses? KILLING bandits? We can’t expect you to be objective about the dark side of this stuff if you seem to be so deeply into it. That would be very unwise. I think any objective person would agree that some of the themes being discussed here are not appropriate for a Catholic to be so deeply involved in. The necromancer you are talking about may be dressed up in the fantasy world but he isn’t that much different to the real life necromancer in his function - reanimating the dead. I read about the voodoo priest of haiti and africa and how they use occult means to raise and contact the dead.

It seems to me like some game makers are obsessed with things that are condemned by god.

 

[Havard]

The pentagram? Yes I claim it and I’ll claim it again. You got examples? I’ve got mine. In fact, you claiming in turn that it’s only been for at least half the time already proves my point.

No, it doesn’t. It proves that the symbol has more than one connotation.

The logical inconsistency between uses is enough to destroy the inherent value of any symbol.

First off, that’s not a “logical inconsistency” it’s just an inconsistency.

Second, symbols are like words. They can have more than one meaning. When a word has more than one meaning, you don’t conclude “that’s enough to destroy the inherent value of the word.” You say “this word has more than one meaning.”

The cross is no exception (coughformer-execution-devicecough)

Exactly. You’re proving my point now…

The swastika isn’t either.

Uh huh…

The pentagram is no different.

Actually, we (or rather you and thisone35) were talking about the goat’s head in the pentagram (Sigil of Baphomet), not just any pentagram.

But no matter, both are associated with the devil, both historically, and in fiction and gaming.

Proven fact.

Right. It’s proven that there’s more than one meaning. One of them being black/demonic.

 

[Havard]

The example I responded to was the goat’s head in pentagram, not the “pentalpha” you’re referring to, which uses the right-side-up star (and definitely no goat’s head). Further, I never claimed even the inverted goat’s head pentagram (Sigil of Baphomet) use was uniformly Satanic. So while your point may be interesting, it’s far from contradictory of what I was arguing.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Um just my little 2 cents but the pentagram has been used long before Christianity. Egypt and many other lands have ancient records of it’s use as a symbol of pagan rebirth and such. I think that the prevalence of certain symbols in popular games and stuff should not be dismissed so easily as just saying they are all meaningless. If they were then the same old symbols would not be showing up all the time.

Uh for one thing, they are NOT the same symbols because if you consider certain things like context and different interpretations, that’s certainly enough evidence to believe that it’s we who call the shots.

Clearly they have meaning to some people just as the crucifix with Jesus on the cross has meaning to us christians.

You mean the same crucifix that once stood for a shameful death and Roman execution?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Right. So you think it’s perfectly okay to use Jesus Christ as a swear word then?

I’d suggest you speak to your priest and ask him if words mean nothing. We aren’t bible only Christians, we are Catholic. We have Scripture but also Tradition and I would dare you to find a Church document that says using the Lord’s name as a cuss word is okay.

Read the Catechism yet?

2142 The second commandment prescribes respect for the Lord’s name. Like the first commandment, it belongs to the virtue of religion and more particularly it governs our use of speech in sacred matters.

To be fair, I can’t say the context in which people swear (regardless of what word is used) can be classified as ‘sacred matters’ (unless you think stubbing your foot is a sacred matter equivalent to discussing the theology of the Immaculate Conception).

No matter how you try to rationalize you want to eat the food offered to idols and you’re pretty darned irritated that your fellow Christians refuse to join in (or at least that’s how it looks).

Wow so basically we just let the pagans and the occultist take whatever symbol they want and we stay far away from it? Yes that’s very rational. It really paints our religion in a very intellectual light.

With reasoning like this, it’s no wonder the Satanists easily won St. Peter’s cross.

PS: Homosexual slur words are slur words now. Just because they meant something different before doesn’t mean they’re acceptable to use now. These days they mean something different but we live NOW, not then, so we have to be mindful of what they mean NOW (doesn’t matter what they meant then because we live in the now, not the then).

Oh really? So I suppose when a certain homosexual slur word that previously meant a bundle of wood is found in, let’s say Lord of the Rings (yes, look it up people), we’re supposed to decry the Catholic Tolkien as a homophobic bigot now?