My parish priest accepts these atrocious practices...What do I do?!?

[mo2169]

Before Mass, I had just finished teaching my 3 kids the passage on Mar 11:15 (where Jesus walks into the Temple and overturns the tables of all those selling goods for profit in His Father’s house), only to have the Priest announce a bake sale inside the Church (towards the back seating area) right after the Mass.

I was happy my oldest (9) was very quick to point out that this was “wrong”. Which according to the Bible, it is wrong.
(and that also proved to me my oldest was paying attention:thumbsup

Personally, I think we have to get used to some of these things these days (with limits - of course)…I know the reason I attend Mass and the preparation I place as an obligation and obedience to my Father during the week (learning more and more about His Word and His Church), so these things do not bother me as much as they used to.

But I can very much understand your frustration.
Have a quick word with your Priest… He may be seeing the same problems and just waiting to have someone approach him to make a decision/announcement.
With Jesus in your hearts, anything is possible.

Good Luck and God Bless…
Marcus.

 

[JRKH]

Before Mass, I had just finished teaching my 3 kids the passage on Mar 11:15 (where Jesus walks into the Temple and overturns the tables of all those selling goods for profit in His Father’s house), only to have the Priest announce a bake sale inside the Church (towards the back seating area) right after the Mass.

I was happy my oldest (9) was very quick to point out that this was “wrong”. Which according to the Bible, it is wrong.
(and that also proved to me my oldest was paying attention:thumbsup

Personally, I think we have to get used to some of these things these days (with limits - of course)…I know the reason I attend Mass and the preparation I place as an obligation and obedience to my Father during the week (learning more and more about His Word and His Church), so these things do not bother me as much as they used to.

But I can very much understand your frustration.
Have a quick word with your Priest… He may be seeing the same problems and just waiting to have someone approach him to make a decision/announcement.
With Jesus in your hearts, anything is possible.

Good Luck and God Bless…
Marcus.

But in the case of the bake sake, no one was being jipped. Note what Jesus accused the merchants of “…But you are turning it into a den of thieves…”. Do you really think that the bake sale is run by thieves??

I don’t disagree with the idea that, assuming another place is available, the bake sale could/should be set up elsewhere, I think it important to point tout to your son that there is a large difference in what is happening in your parish and what happened in the Gospel.

Peace
James

Peace
James

 

[mo2169]

But in the case of the bake sake, no one was being jipped. Note what Jesus accused the merchants of “…But you are turning it into a den of thieves…”. Do you really think that the bake sale is run by thieves??

I don’t disagree with the idea that, assuming another place is available, the bake sale could/should be set up elsewhere, I think it important to point tout to your son that there is a large difference in what is happening in your parish and what happened in the Gospel.

Peace
James

Peace
James

Thanks for the Reply James. I agree with the differences you mentioned.
Very large difference between a ‘harmless bake sale’ and ‘den of thieves’.

The entire verse however, states:
**15(J)Then they came to Jerusalem. And He entered the temple and began to drive out those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves;

16and He would not permit anyone to carry merchandise through the temple.

17And He began to teach and say to them, “Is it not written, ‘(K)MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL THE NATIONS’? (L)But you have made it a ROBBERS’ DEN.” **

This suggests that His House should be a “House of Prayers”. Period.
If we decide to make it into a supermarket, bingo hall or den of thieves, it’s not of Jesus’ desire for His House.

In order to have my children fully understand how much respect I have (and they should also have) for our Church, I think I need to explain to them that Jesus’ House (our Church) is a place of Prayer and Worship - Period -

No doubt, there’s a big difference between the thieves and the bake sale, but the point is that Jesus wants us to be there for more important reasons. The Focus should be on His Body and His Word. No distractions, no matter what they are.

Just my personal thought and take on this subject.
Thanks again for the post reply.
God Bless -

 

[Brian777]

every parish has these problems…people dress they way they want to, nothing you can really do about that(although for me personally i think that dwelling on what people wear to Mass is sort of pharasaic… piety is what matters…)

as for everything else, well its modern Catholicism…priests just need to step it up and be holy men of humble examople, and these sort of things will eventually end.

 

[At_Trent]

I don’t know why there are some here denying it’s the priest’s fault. If he allows it, he enables it. If he is new to the parish, then yes, speak to him. But if he’s been there awhile, he’s ok with it all. I’d find another parish.

Our Lord deserves better and so does our souls.

 

[Joannm]

I don’t know why there are some here denying it’s the priest’s fault. If he allows it, he enables it. If he is new to the parish, then yes, speak to him. But if he’s been there awhile, he’s ok with it all. I’d find another parish.

Our Lord deserves better and so does our souls.

Serious question - how to you propose the priest stop it; put guards at the door, refuse communion, lock the doors so people can’t arrive late or leave early. We have tried many ways to address the issue, in homilies, notices and in the bulletin. We have been doing so for years to no avail.

 

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by At Trent
I don’t know why there are some here denying it’s the priest’s fault. If he allows it, he enables it. If he is new to the parish, then yes, speak to him. But if he’s been there awhile, he’s ok with it all. I’d find another parish.

Honestly I don’t think there IS a lot more that can be done. The issue is very complex.

The best that the Pastor can do is to continue to encourage, by speech and action, reverence for the House and literal presence of God. In addition, the parishoners who are concerned, can help by making a point to dress, not just nice, but excellant. To show their reverence at every opportunity.

Much of the problem stems from people being poorly catachized, and not understanding that one is in the True and Real presence of Jesus Christ Himself. The better people are catachized the lsee of an issue there will be.
Parents can help this by dressing properly themselves and insisting that their children dress properly - even from a young age. Do many people even think in terms of having “Sunday-go-to-meetin’ clothes” anymore?

Another thing is that, you’ll never reach a point where everyone is satisfied. There will always be those who think dress should be better. If every man wore at least a nice shirt and dress slacks, there are some who would think they should all wear ties and jackets.

There is indeed a need for imporvement, but it will only come by example and by continual gentle, persistant reminders.

Peace
James

 

[aicirt]

I don’t know why there are some here denying it’s the priest’s fault. If he allows it, he enables it. If he is new to the parish, then yes, speak to him. But if he’s been there awhile, he’s ok with it all. I’d find another parish.

Our Lord deserves better and so does our souls.

I agree. The priest must take a stand. Forty years ago there were nuns who didn’t hold back. They were very good at getting across the dress code. They’re gone so it is up to the priest. He can do it. It wouldn’t be anything to suggest he thinks it would be nice if women wore headcoverings. Years ago, women would never think of entering a church without something on their heads. And if you did, there would be a nun handing you a tissue.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Forty or fifty years ago people in general dressed better (more formally). Women wore hats all the time, not just in church. School girls may have been handed a tissue by the nun who taught their class, but no one was standing there on a Sunday morning handing out head coverings at your average parish.

I do not at all condone scanty or inappropriate dress, but I do think we need to be reasonable about what the Church herself requires and what shifting fashions mean will be in people’s closets.

 

[ChurchTorch]

My Parish is a small parish located in Keyport NJ. We only have ONE priest presiding at the parish. Despite me being a traditionalists (NOTE: I AM NOT A SEDEVACANTIST OR OF THE SSPX. I AM JUST A NORMAL EVERYDAY CATHOLIC) I attend the Novus Ordo. I believe the Mass is getting way too secular to the point where I feel like walking up to the priest and say: “ENOUGH OF THIS! Do you not see that Jesus and Mary of crying?!?”

Now what is he doing that is unacceptable? We have girls that come in with mini shirts and tank tops, we have people that talk, before and AFTER the Mass, people leave the Church before the priest has the change to give the final blessing. and leave the altar. I mean I feel like my parish derides the sacred writings of Saint Paul!

What do I do and say? Give me your opinion on what you think.

Mind your own business and re-double your focus on God at the Mass.

 

[Topaz1128]

(although for me personally i think that dwelling on what people wear to Mass is sort of pharasaic… piety is what matters…)

That isn’t the point. Women should be aware that what they wear can cause men to struggle with sin. Church should be the LAST place where a guy has to be vigilant against the lure of a miniskirt.

 

[Onegin]

It also might be worth noting that if the secular public can manage to achieve a basic standard of dress when entering a Church in Rome or a dinner club, then I think we’re setting standards a bit low to say that Catholics cannot keep to the same dress codes today.

Years ago many people used to dress nicely to have dinner in their own home. Good grief, we’re only asking for 1/7th of that level of commitment.

 

[JRKH]

What will be in peoples closets will be what they consider appropriate attire in general. And what they consider appropriate attire is a direct reflection of where they are spiritually.
Sloppy dress = sloppy spiritual life.
Immodest/Inapropriate dress = inapropriate spiritual life.
Neat, organized, clean dress (even if not new) = Clean and orderly Spiritual life.
The outside is only reflecting the inside.

So the concern should not be “laying down the law” so to speak on how to dress for Church. That would only cover the sepulcher.
The more important issue is the spirityual health of people. Improve the catachesis of Catholics, improve honest piety among catholics, especially young catholics, and you will see great improvments in dress.

In this area the priest, along with the DRE must take the lead - along with every parent. Good sermons on sin, piety, and the call to holiness - Good teaching, in accordance with the magisterium, in the Catholic Schools and CCD classes - Homilies and classes to impress on parents the vital need for strong catholic values in the home to protect their children from the culture of death.

Quiet reflective music, perhaps a gregorian chant CD played before and after mass, to promote a more quiet, dignified and reflective atmosphere might also help.

Many many things are needed, “dress codes” would amount to nothing more than “window dressing”

Peace
james

 

[lelhajj]

Is it me, or has anyone noticed that a skirt is only too short when it is on someone else? A top is too low cut when it is on someone else?

Personally, I try not to worry about what someone else is wearing to Mass. Some people have to leave for work right after mass. Some may have just come from work. Some may not be able to afford the type of clothing someone else thinks is appropriate. I know of a family (inlaws of inlaws) that don’t attend our parish because they feel we dress up too much, and they can’t afford to “keep up”.

I also try not to judge people that leave early. Are they on call? Did they get paged? Was there an emergency? Will they be late for work?

I know several people that cut it extremely close in order to go to Mass and work. I also know of a surgical nurse that very often gets paged out of mass due to a medical emergency.
I certainly agree with you. Sometimes i have jugded some people because they are wearing sweat pants instead of coming with proper attire, or shorts or whatever they were, then i have asked myself: how do you know if those people just felt the urge to come and be present infront of our Lord? Am i perfect? why do i judge other people when i am not even closer to perfection. These are our external appearances, but, it is more important what we bring to our Lord from inside ourselves. I can tell you, when i was a teenage, and that was long time ago, i used to go to the mass to see boys also, paying more attention to people and other teenagers than paying attention to the mass. Even now, sometimes i get distracted by the presence of some other people, by a cry of a baby, etc. We wish to be perfect, but, we are not. we sin even without realizing it. It is not an excuse, it is a reality. Here, where i live now, which is a muslim country, it is written on the church screen: “please wear proper attire”. Maybe it is our fault that we have let our children wear clothes that are not certainly appropiated, also our culture with so much freedom, it is a struggle to keep even our own children in the right path and with the right moral principles. But, i tell you, i prefer to have my child going to mass even if she is wearing a skirt that is short than making her away from church because of so many restrictions. They will learn, but, little by little. It is in great part, our fault, for giving and living in so much freedom or liberty. I have seen even women wearing a fur coat when it is almost 80 degrees, what does that shows? they go to exhibit their material things, but, one day, they will realize that to be close to God, all the material things are not important. Everybody has a time of being rebellious and a time to become more calm and patient. Leave it to God to judge us.

Unless I know of all of the details, I don’t make a judgement. But that’s just me.

 

[WetCatechumen]

Forty or fifty years ago people in general dressed better (more formally). Women wore hats all the time, not just in church. School girls may have been handed a tissue by the nun who taught their class, but no one was standing there on a Sunday morning handing out head coverings at your average parish.

I do not at all condone scanty or inappropriate dress, but I do think we need to be reasonable about what the Church herself requires and what shifting fashions mean will be in people’s closets.

Bingo. Nowadays, “appropriately dressed” for young people means a nice, colored t-shirt, usually with a logo, or a colorful button down shirt, and a fashionable pair of jeans. Women don’t wear hats. In fact, oftentimes, I see women take OFF their hats when going indoors, when the national anthem plays, or other situations. The culture has shifted.

Women wearing hats isn’t a cultural necessity. I think that it would be good for Catholic women to cover in church, but it doesn’t have the same meaning that it used to.

Also, while I think that people should dress formally to church, and that it would be beneficial to do so, a guy or a girl wearing jeans and a decent shirt, who is well-groomed is almost the same as a guy in the 1950’s wearing slacks, a button down shirt, and a tie - it was more standard back then. It’s different now.

After all, if we all held to traditional modes of dress because of our religion, the priest wouldn’t be the only one wearing and alb and chasuble.

 

[lelhajj]

Serious question - how to you propose the priest stop it; put guards at the door, refuse communion, lock the doors so people can’t arrive late or leave early. We have tried many ways to address the issue, in homilies, notices and in the bulletin. We have been doing so for years to no avail.

I am a little bit confused about closing the doors to parishioners.
I don’t believe this is what Jesus preached.
Besides that, we don’t know how much is the urgency of a person to go inside of a church to be comforted by the presence of our Lord.
A lot of times, i, myself, have felt the “urgency” to enter my church, without mass or with mass going on, and i have felt great relief and happiness that the doors has always been opened for those times of ‘urgency".
Personally, i believe, this is one of the beauties of our religion:" Everyone is welcome.’ and that also, makes other people who are not catholics, who are curious about our faith, not to be afraid to see what is our church all about, because they do not feel rejected by us.

 

[Joannm]

I am a little bit confused about closing the doors to parishioners.
I don’t believe this is what Jesus preached.
Besides that, we don’t know how much is the urgency of a person to go inside of a church to be comforted by the presence of our Lord.
A lot of times, i, myself, have felt the “urgency” to enter my church, without mass or with mass going on, and i have felt great relief and happiness that the doors has always been opened for those times of ‘urgency".
Personally, i believe, this is one of the beauties of our religion:" Everyone is welcome.’ and that also, makes other people who are not catholics, who are curious about our faith, not to be afraid to see what is our church all about, because they do not feel rejected by us.

I do not propose locking doors or doing any of the things I posted. I was being facetious. There is not much more a pastor can do if he has mentioned it in several ways and repeats it and repeats it. People will do what they do. One example is FIrst COmmunions in our parish. It is SO noisy before Mass since many many people there are not regular church goers. I usually have to make three or four announcements before mass telling people to be quiet…but two minutes after I say something they start talking again. Also, they usually dress very disrespectfully. So do we kick them out? Have shawls available and make them cover up. (I saw this when I went to Greece in Orthodox churches)? Not much you can do.

 

[aicirt]

Bingo. Nowadays, “appropriately dressed” for young people means a nice, colored t-shirt, usually with a logo, or a colorful button down shirt, and a fashionable pair of jeans. Women don’t wear hats. In fact, oftentimes, I see women take OFF their hats when going indoors, when the national anthem plays, or other situations. The culture has shifted.

Women wearing hats isn’t a cultural necessity. I think that it would be good for Catholic women to cover in church, but it doesn’t have the same meaning that it used to.

Also, while I think that people should dress formally to church, and that it would be beneficial to do so, a guy or a girl wearing jeans and a decent shirt, who is well-groomed is almost the same as a guy in the 1950’s wearing slacks, a button down shirt, and a tie - it was more standard back then. It’s different now.

After all, if we all held to traditional modes of dress because of our religion, the priest wouldn’t be the only one wearing and alb and chasuble.

I believe it doesn’t have the same meaning that it did because the Eucharist isn’t on the main altar. Women covered their heads for 1960 years until the Eucharist was removed.

Years ago, you stopped talking when you entered the vestibule of the church. You wore a hat if you were a woman and you took it off if you were a man. You didn’t have bake sales at the back of the church because Christ was ALWAYS present. There were poor back then too but 98% of all the women managed to have a hat, Sunday dress, complete with gloves and stockings etc. And the kids had Sunday attire too.

Women of all denominations fought for sufferage but still dressed on Sunday. So feminist issues should have little to do with it.

Things are distracting. Ten of us were praying before Mass when three people decided to hold a conversation in the main aisle. They were not kids. These are seniors active in the church. Another active woman always wears jeans and a hoodie…always. She is by no means poor. For some reason, she and her husband choose to dress that way.

I pick up the hymnal and find we’re singing “Lord of the Dance.” Check the bottom and sure enough, it’s a Shaker hymn. Shakers were a cult, split from the Quakers, and did not even believe in the Trinity. Why are we singing this hymn? And the last Shaker died about 30 years ago. It is a defunct “religion”.

Go to a traditional Latin Mass and a relic is displayed. Nice. Go to a NO Mass at the same church and the relic has been removed. It is only displayed at the traditional Mass. Why? I fail to understand the logic if any. Are Catholic parishoners offended if the relic is displayed at the NO Mass? Wouldn’t think so.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Also, while I think that people should dress formally to church, and that it would be beneficial to do so, a guy or a girl wearing jeans and a decent shirt, who is well-groomed is almost the same as a guy in the 1950’s wearing slacks, a button down shirt, and a tie - it was more standard back then. It’s different now.

This is very true. And to the poster who was talking about what people wear to secular formal events–there are zillions of examples of inappropriate dress there as well. The girls who wore what they thought of as nice sandals and others said were flip-flops to the White House. The movie stars in their fancy dresses on the red carpet who haven’t combed their hair (the fact that their dresses look like what expensive hookers wore in the 40s is a whole different subject). The men at “jackets please” restaurants who are wearing “designer” jeans and “designer” t-shirts with the required jacket.

And of course, the whole idea of changing for dinner at home (or at least cleaning up) is long gone. People also used to change before going out to run errands–even to the grocery store! Now it is very common to see people in baggy t-shirts, pj bottoms, and flips at the store–even in the mall.

Given all that, I still don’t think it is a lost cause to expect people to at least be clean, brushed, and covered from shoulder to knee at Mass. Even the guidelines at the Vatican (or Greek Orthodox churches) would allow your young man in a clean polo and jeans and the girls from the White House in their summer dresses and flip flops (ok, they’d need those little ‘shrugs’ to cover their shoulders).

The idea that we move from the inside out is the correct one. We first need to reform ourselves, we need to pray for our priests and fellow parishioners, we need to all we can to assist in the correct development of the spiritual life at our parish. People’s clothes, talking before Mass, all that comes way way down the list.

 

[peary]

My Parish is a small parish located in Keyport NJ. We only have ONE priest presiding at the parish. Despite me being a traditionalists (NOTE: I AM NOT A SEDEVACANTIST OR OF THE SSPX. I AM JUST A NORMAL EVERYDAY CATHOLIC) I attend the Novus Ordo. I believe the Mass is getting way too secular to the point where I feel like walking up to the priest and say: “ENOUGH OF THIS! Do you not see that Jesus and Mary of crying?!?”

Now what is he doing that is unacceptable? We have girls that come in with mini shirts and tank tops, we have people that talk, before and AFTER the Mass, people leave the Church before the priest has the change to give the final blessing. and leave the altar. I mean I feel like my parish derides the sacred writings of Saint Paul!

What do I do and say? Give me your opinion on what you think.

You can always write a letter to your bishop informing him of all this, but you have to have documentation to back it all up. For example, on such-and-such a day, this is what was observed. Write out the date and what was observed.

The priest is the one who sets the dress code. Usually, they don’t bother because people won’t come back and there is always that ‘fear’ that donations will plummet. It is the priest who sets the decorum for Mass - he can ask the music director to get the people involved in singing beforehand or the choir, or the Rosary can be prayed or the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, etc. There are a thousand and one ways that talking can be curtailed before Mass. I have yet to witness people talking while the Rosary or Chaplet is being recited by a group, or the choir singing. It makes for a time of reflection that people actually welcome.