My partner's sexual past --- How do I find closure? ADVICE!?

[Jay82]

I don’t see why he’s so puzzled wondering why she did it. After all, by his account, he slept with two women he didn’t love very much at the time. Why should he not have some understanding of her?

I agree!

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Does anyone else think that the OP’s issue has nothing to do with the sinfulness of his girlfriend’s actions?

It makes sense for a guy to be concerned with the “purity” of an existing partner, because otherwise he has no way to know who the father of his children is, and could end up putting considerable resources into the proliferation of another man’s genes.

But past sexual behavior? Is it just biology gone awry? On the other hand, if you read the Bible women who had sex before marriage were supposed to be stoned to death, and Muslims still do this in quite a few places.

I wonder what the source of this is, and how common it is among men. Is it mostly just insecurity of the guy feeling he won’t be able to measure up to those who preceded him?

Well if you were a Jew or a Muslim you could profess this…as a Christian you should likely listen to what Christ did and John 8:3-11 pretty much says it is not up to us to.

I do not think you dump another person. Dump sounds like what I do with garbage. The dignity of the human person would not allow that, unless we are not talking about being Christian. We can separate from someone that chooses against what the Church teaches, but forgiveness is probably near the top of that list. Anyone that refuses to forgive will separate themselves from the Church. If a sinner confesses, and repents then who are we to dump, by what authority? Laws of man could be used, but then we are not talking about our faith. Sometimes the Church allows the law of man to take precedence, Just war, Death Penalty, used for the greater good, yet even then the Church does not say it is good to do, only that it is not as bad as letting a condition remain.

I do not believe that the sexual past of a potential mate comes even close to warranting allowing the usurpation of Church teaching on the value of persons, forgiveness and love. I, like the OP, have NO right to judge the motives for behavior which may or may not be sinful, however I can judge the results of that action. In this case his looking at her sins without forgiveness, while still having the SAME sins of his own… remind me of other stories in the bible… He needs to read.

 

[Havard]

I would emphatically disagree with this. The desire to understand someone’s decision making process doesn’t lead to crying sessions lasting until 2 am, drunken anger, and so on.

People’s reasons for having sex are also generally not very complicated, and range from love to desire to enjoy the physical sensations to desire to feel accepted to loneliness etc.

Regarding his ‘crying sessions, drunken anger, etc’, just because they are not mature actions doesn’t have any bearing on what provoked them. Further, we don’t know how these events even went down. Since we weren’t there, we really can’t judge fairly.

Secondly, simple reasons do not necessarily equate with ease of understanding. If you have a child and raise him or her to the best of your ability, and then he/she becomes a teenager goes out and starts sleeping with random people… when he/she says ‘I did it because it feels good’, you can’t tell me that will answer all of your questions.

 

[Havard]

I don’t see why he’s so puzzled wondering why she did it. After all, by his account, he slept with two women he didn’t love very much at the time. Why should he not have some understanding of her?

I suppose that depends on what do you mean by 'have some understanding for"?

It’s apparent that he’s trying to understand, but that things aren’t making sense to him. Are you saying he’s being uncharitable because things aren’t fitting in his mind?

However you try to frame it, Domer obviously understands sex in only so many contexts, and that doesn’t include some of the ones in which his girlfriend engaged.

 

[beardell]

I don’t know if Liberanosamalo is male or female but thank God they are not a priest. I would hate to go into a confessional and get derided as badly as the poster [Domer] of the thread did. Liberanosamalo put down those stones that you are casting!

In my opinion, there is a maturity and personality issue that Domer has to address. Although it will not be easy it can be overcome with prayer, patience, and the grace of God. Also, keep in mind that forgiveness is NOT A FEELING. Forgiveness requires a choice to be made. If it were a feeling we probably would never do it. I would just relay the following to you Domer and your girlfriend/fiancee and hope that you let the words sink in deep:

You are both a child of God. His capacity for forgiveness and love for you and for her is infinite.

I pray that you both find the peace you seek!

 

[flyingfish]

Regarding his ‘crying sessions, drunken anger, etc’, just because they are not mature actions doesn’t have any bearing on what provoked them. Further, we don’t know how these events even went down. Since we weren’t there, we really can’t judge fairly.

My point is that these kinds of actions are emotional outbursts, and the desire to understand someone’s reasons generally lead to wondering and curiosity, not emotional outbursts. It would make sense if jealousy and insecurity causes a man to cry and drink and get angry, but not intellectual curiosity about another’s persons motivations.

Secondly, simple reasons do not necessarily equate with ease of understanding. If you have a child and raise him or her to the best of your ability, and then he/she becomes a teenager goes out and starts sleeping with random people… when he/she says ‘I did it because it feels good’, you can’t tell me that will answer all of your questions.

In all honesty, I wouldn’t. I don’t think people generally have well thought out reasons for their actions, especially actions like sex. And I would accept the enjoyment of physical sensation during sex as a reason for having sex. I might or might not agree with whether it’s a good reason, but it would certainly satisfy my curiosity about why a person behaved as they did.

 

[Havard]

My point is that these kinds of actions are emotional outbursts, and the desire to understand someone’s reasons generally lead to wondering and curiosity, not emotional outbursts. It would make sense if jealousy and insecurity causes a man to cry and drink and get angry, but not intellectual curiosity about another’s persons motivations.

It would make sense to you, but you aren’t Domer. As you state, you aren’t nearly as disappointed or confused by her rationale. So it wouldn’t be a big struggle for you. The problem is that you’re putting yourself in his shoes for that moment, not his complete life, including everything that makes Domer, Domer. What makes sense to one person does not necessarily make sense to another.

In all honesty, I wouldn’t. I don’t think people generally have well thought out reasons for their actions, especially actions like sex. And I would accept the enjoyment of physical sensation during sex as a reason for having sex. I might or might not agree with whether it’s a good reason, but it would certainly satisfy my curiosity about why a person behaved as they did.

With all due respect, what does it matter what satisfies your curiosity? Unless you’re saying there something objectively wrong with his wanting to understand her actions?

 

[flyingfish]

It would make sense to you, but you aren’t Domer. As you state, you aren’t nearly as disappointed or confused by her rationale. So it wouldn’t be a big struggle for you. The problem is that you’re putting yourself in his shoes for that moment, not his complete life, including everything that makes Domer, Domer. What makes sense to one person does not necessarily make sense to another.

I’ll grant you that. But can you honestly say that mere curiosity about another person’s reasoning would make you cry and drink? Don’t you think it has to be more than just curiosity, but that there have to be powerful emotions like fear or anger behind it?

With all due respect, what does it matter what satisfies your curiosity? Unless you’re saying there something objectively wrong with his wanting to understand her actions?

Oh, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with him wanting to understand her actions. I just don’t think that’s what he wants. I think he wants his girlfriend to be pure and unspoiled, I think he wants to be her only man, I think he’s scared that he might not measure up to her past sexual partners, I think it is a matter of pride for him to have an “unused” wife. I’m probably wrong on some of these, but at least these kinds of considerations might drive a man to tears and drunken rage. I don’t see how simple curiosity would.

 

[Havard]

I’ll grant you that. But can you honestly say that mere curiosity about another person’s reasoning would make you cry and drink? Don’t you think it has to be more than just curiosity, but that there have to be powerful emotions like fear or anger behind it?

It wouldn’t make me cry or drink, no. But I do know people who are immature, even spoiled, as adults, and their reactions are at times entirely inappropriate. Which is reprehensible in its own right. And Domer does sound immature to me, although I’d rather not make a final judgment on that, especially as I don’t really know him.

Oh, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with him wanting to understand her actions. I just don’t think that’s what he wants. I think he wants his girlfriend to be pure and unspoiled, I think he wants to be her only man, I think he’s scared that he might not measure up to her past sexual partners, I think it is a matter of pride for him to have an “unused” wife. I’m probably wrong on some of these, but at least these kinds of considerations might drive a man to tears and drunken rage. I don’t see how simple curiosity would.

Unless I missed something, I haven’t seen any of that. Did I miss it, or are you inferring it all?

 

[flyingfish]

Unless I missed something, I haven’t seen any of that. Did I miss it, or are you inferring it all?

Some things he said in the thread:

I’m going through the worst emotional turmoil of my life.

…

After making mean comments after I had been drinking about how I went to Catholic school and she went to a dirty public school, she eventually had enough, knew what I was getting at, and put it all on the table.

…

e told me her entire sexual history. This was approximately 10 days ago. Since then has been a roller coaster of emotions. It mimics the 5 stages of grieving: anger, denial, bargaining, and depression. Acceptance has yet to come

…

Needless to say, our days since this discussion have been filled with grief, shame, embarrassment, crying, guilt, depression, etc… the entire gamut of horrible emotions.

…

Then the honeymoon ended. I went back to feeling horrible. Jealous. Maybe I know too many of the gory details. I am ashamed for her and of her. I know God wants me to forgive and forget, but it’s so hard. I looked at some of her pictures on facebook before I knew her and lost it. I didn’t know who was who and who did what. It was terrible. We’d stay up to 2am at my place crying, me asking for the details, consoling, arguing crying, repeat

And that’s just the first 2 posts.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I don’t know if Liberanosamalo is male or female but thank God they are not a priest. I would hate to go into a confessional and get derided as badly as the poster [Domer] of the thread did. Liberanosamalo put down those stones that you are casting!

Wow. This all really isn’t about me, Havard. But to satisfy your curiosity, no, I’m not a priest. I’m a female who was married to a man who was a raging cauldron of anger. Though I didn’t have any “past” before I met him, I remember him being furious at me because I once stupidly said I liked a guy in college and I wanted to kiss him. Even though I never did, I got the “harlot” treatment for about a day. Yeah, I’ve talked to a professional about my issues and why I continued with a relationship with a man like that. I was very young. We all do stupid things when we’re very young.

I’ve met the kind of guy who has one set of rules for himself and another for the woman he deems perfect enough to be his wife. I rebel at the idea. Oddly, I don’t often find myself in agreement with FlyingFish, but there we are! See, I’m not a stone thrower or I’d be lambasting the GF too. I’m trying to show him he needs to show this poor woman and rape victim some kindness.

As for if I WERE a man and a priest, I’d be a lot nicer to a soul on their knees in the confessional asking forgiveness from God in all humility for THEIR sins than I am to someone who came HERE telling US about HER sins and asking how he can possibly forgive her, when SOME of those sins were with HIM.

Those “rocks” I’m casting were ones he threw at the woman he claims to love, but they misfired. I just tossed them back at him where they belonged.

 

[Havard]

The jealousy is not explained more in his posts, so I don’t know if that’s just one emotion he went through in a sequence of emotions, or part of how he’s looking at the situation currently. If it is, then yes it’s important. That wasn’t the impression I got, though.

Wouldn’t the best thing be to ask him to explain it? Whatever advice we give him is only so helpful as our understanding of where his head actually is.

 

[Havard]

Wow. This all really isn’t about me, Havard. But to satisfy your curiosity, no, I’m not a priest. I’m a female who was married to a man who was a raging cauldron of anger. Though I didn’t have any “past” before I met him, I remember him being furious at me because I once stupidly said I liked a guy in college and I wanted to kiss him. Even though I never did, I got the “harlot” treatment for about a day. Yeah, I’ve talked to a professional about my issues and why I continued with a relationship with a man like that. I was very young. We all do stupid things when we’re very young.

I’ve met the kind of guy who has one set of rules for himself and another for the woman he deems perfect enough to be his wife. I rebel at the idea. Oddly, I don’t often find myself in agreement with FlyingFish, but there we are! See, I’m not a stone thrower or I’d be lambasting the GF too. I’m trying to show him he needs to show this poor woman and rape victim some kindness.

As for if I WERE a man and a priest, I’d be a lot nicer to a soul on their knees in the confessional asking forgiveness from God in all humility for THEIR sins than I am to someone who came HERE telling US about HER sins and asking how he can possibly forgive her, when SOME of those sins were with HIM.

Those “rocks” I’m casting were ones he threw at the woman he claims to love, but they misfired. I just tossed them back at him where they belonged.

Havard? I didn’t write that post.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Oh, I’m sorry, Havard. That was Beardell. Your post was nearby and I got the names mixed up.

Beardell is obviously new here and doesn’t get why I am so hard on men who bully women emotionally, or verbally or whatever…

Beardell needs to really look at the OP’s posts and see the complete lack of humility and love therein. Sitting and trying to analyze someone else’s past sins while neglecting one’s own is just an amazing act of pride. I can’t imagine how a priest in the confessional would react to a penitent coming in and doing that (though I didn’t see much penitence in the OP’s comments), and I’m really glad that will never be my problem.

 

[domer]

Once again, thanks for all the responses. I suppose I should give a general update, then respond to some posters…

After reading the first 40-50 posts I knew what I had to do. Sure, I didn’t agree with all of them. And many of them forced me to take a real close look at myself and where I’m coming from, but they all offered something. Like I said from the beginning (if you read closely) was that I wanted to know how to get past it. I DID NOT want to lose her, someone so amazing. I wanted to know how to end the turmoil and the sadness. I asked if I should leave her because I wanted an opinion on if this - is my relationship salvageable? Or will I forever be tormented? I wanted to know if this could work out, at least in the short term. I wasn’t asking “My girlfriend has a past I don’t like, is this grounds for leaving her? What would you do?” Havard understood me. But somehow my OP got misconstrued and extrapolated to depths I didn’t intend (not because they’re painful, but because they’re not accurate).

Through all of you I learned the ANSWER to MY QUESTION: Christ, love, forgiveness, introspection. After reading the first 50 I felt better. I felt hope. I knew what I had to do. I knew what was the right thing to do. I accepted her. I asked her for forgiveness. Not forgiveness for asking about her past. Not forgiveness for being hurt by her past. I asked for forgiveness for the way I was mean to her after I lost it. Like I said, there was the initial shock of a couple days, then some bizarre “honeymoon phase” of maybe 6 days. Then there was the crash where I felt the worst lows. That’s when I was rude to her. I told her what I thought of the old, sinful version of herself. However, this was not right. Like it was pointed out, I have my own sinful past. I have my sinful past WITH HER. It’s not my place to throw it back up at her or hang it over her head. Christ would never do that. I don’t apologize for being hurt. I was hurt and I still will be. I was hurt because she hurt herself. I was hurt because my idealized vision was shattered. I want nothing but the best for her and before she knew me she was not getting the best or acting the best. If you have a problem with this, so be it, I don’t apologize. One poster said pre-marital sex is destructive. IT IS! I wish the children today, my friends, some of my family members would realize this! We both believe that. Even though I didn’t know her then, I can still be hurt by her past troubles because I love her today. If you still want to tear me apart, go ahead.

I told her how I felt. She was cautious at first and I felt embarrassed for putting myself on the line. I asked her why she wasn’t showing any emotion. She said she didn’t want to get fooled again by the super high highs we had before. Then she started crying. She felt bad for not reciprocating what I just gave to her. I told her it wasn’t a big deal, and it’s very smart to protect ones self and emotion. We had a great talk. I learned that I made mistakes, so did she, but we will move on in prayer, through Christ, as one. If the dust settles and one of us wants to split, so be it. But for now we are at peace and happy. I suppose I realized that this was not worth losing a great girl. Jesus wants me to forgive from my heart, not for my own convenience. At least one poster said I helped lead her to Christ! Even though I am flawed, and some of you will say I’m bragging to my ego, but this is true, I did help her! What more could I really ask for??? She’s a wonderful, beautiful, loving person in every way. She’s made mistakes. She’s done things I will never respect or understand. But it’s not my place to despise her for it, it’s not my place to judge her and cast the stones. Hate the sin, not the sinner. It is my place to love her and walk humbly with God! I am filled with joy and there are tears coming to my eyes.

 

[whatevergirl]

NAIL ON THE HEAD. I’m a perfectionist. I’m an analyst. To me, everything has a reason. I like concrete things. I want to get past these emotions. I do forgive her, now I need to forget. But then, what’s that? Oh, I just thought of when she did X with Y, what could she have been thinking? This makes no sense to me!

*Forgive her for what? *

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Once again, thanks for all the responses. I suppose I should give a general update, then respond to some posters…

After reading the first 40-50 posts I knew what I had to do. Sure, I didn’t agree with all of them. And many of them forced me to take a real close look at myself and where I’m coming from, but they all offered something. Like I said from the beginning (if you read closely) was that I wanted to know how to get past it. I DID NOT want to lose her, someone so amazing. I wanted to know how to end the turmoil and the sadness. I asked if I should leave her because I wanted an opinion on if this - is my relationship salvageable? Or will I forever be tormented? I wanted to know if this could work out, at least in the short term. I wasn’t asking “My girlfriend has a past I don’t like, is this grounds for leaving her? What would you do?” Havard understood me. But somehow my OP got misconstrued and extrapolated to depths I didn’t intend (not because they’re painful, but because they’re not accurate).

Through all of you I learned the ANSWER to MY QUESTION: Christ, love, forgiveness, introspection. After reading the first 50 I felt better. I felt hope. I knew what I had to do. I knew what was the right thing to do. I accepted her. I asked her for forgiveness. Not forgiveness for asking about her past. Not forgiveness for being hurt by her past. I asked for forgiveness for the way I was mean to her after I lost it. Like I said, there was the initial shock of a couple days, then some bizarre “honeymoon phase” of maybe 6 days. Then there was the crash where I felt the worst lows. That’s when I was rude to her. I told her what I thought of the old, sinful version of herself. However, this was not right. Like it was pointed out, I have my own sinful past. I have my sinful past WITH HER. It’s not my place to throw it back up at her or hang it over her head. Christ would never do that. I don’t apologize for being hurt. I was hurt and I still will be. I was hurt because she hurt herself. I was hurt because my idealized vision was shattered. I want nothing but the best for her and before she knew me she was not getting the best or acting the best. If you have a problem with this, so be it, I don’t apologize. One poster said pre-marital sex is destructive. IT IS! I wish the children today, my friends, some of my family members would realize this! We both believe that. Even though I didn’t know her then, I can still be hurt by her past troubles because I love her today. If you still want to tear me apart, go ahead.

I told her how I felt. She was cautious at first and I felt embarrassed for putting myself on the line. I asked her why she wasn’t showing any emotion. She said she didn’t want to get fooled again by the super high highs we had before. Then she started crying. She felt bad for not reciprocating what I just gave to her. I told her it wasn’t a big deal, and it’s very smart to protect ones self and emotion. We had a great talk. I learned that I made mistakes, so did she, but we will move on in prayer, through Christ, as one. If the dust settles and one of us wants to split, so be it. But for now we are at peace and happy. I suppose I realized that this was not worth losing a great girl. Jesus wants me to forgive from my heart, not for my own convenience. At least one poster said I helped lead her to Christ! Even though I am flawed, and some of you will say I’m bragging to my ego, but this is true, I did help her! What more could I really ask for??? She’s a wonderful, beautiful, loving person in every way. She’s made mistakes. She’s done things I will never respect or understand. But it’s not my place to despise her for it, it’s not my place to judge her and cast the stones. Hate the sin, not the sinner. It is my place to love her and walk humbly with God! I am filled with joy and there are tears coming to my eyes.

AWESOME…

 

[domer]

BTW- Last night me and her read about 50 of the posts. We talked about the ones we liked, the ones we didn’t, and why. I remember her saying near the end “Wow. This is therapeutic.” She disagreed with many who she perceived as throwing stones at me, or telling her to leave me. Perhaps to those people I am a real nutjob who pressures this girl into feeling exactly how I do, but that’s not the case. She’s very independent. She tells me how she feels.

I told her to come and post here if she wants. She’s thinking about it.

P.S. - She wanted me to give this message: THANKS!

 

[Havard]

BTW- Last night me and her read about 50 of the posts. We talked about the ones we liked, the ones we didn’t, and why. I remember her saying near the end “Wow. This is therapeutic.” She disagreed with many who she perceived as throwing stones at me, or telling her to leave me. Perhaps to those people I am a real nutjob who pressures this girl into feeling exactly how I do, but that’s not the case. She’s very independent. She tells me how she feels.

I told her to come and post here if she wants. She’s thinking about it.

P.S. - She wanted me to give this message: THANKS!

Well that’s definitely one way of talking through it. I’m just glad you’re moving in the right direction.

 

[domer]

domer: I’ve done some praying/thinking on your situation and i still go back to what i originally said: I just think you need to grow up. I don’t mean that in an unkind way here, but i truly believe this situation is simply one of maturity. I know when i was young i held very firm beliefs about no small variety of topics…and i wasn’t flexible in my beliefs. Age, wisdom and life experience has softened my approach. Principally, i am more tolerant of others, more forgiving. I think many people could say the same thing. I don’t think you should “dump” your girlfriend. If you love her and marriage is god’s will for both of you, it will happen. I do think, however, that this is a big wake up call to you that perhaps you just aren’t ready for that commitment. At least not yet. You both need time to discern if this relationship should move towards marriage and if it should, how to make that relationship loving, mutually giving (and forgiving) and pleasing to god. If you aren’t meant to be together, then it is your duty and hers to prepare yoursleves spirtually for the people who will become your spouses.ultimately, if you don’t marry her domer, you need to realize something: This girl came to christ because of you; you are the one who introduced her to the church. Granted, it’s not been a smooth or righteous path the entire way, but you do deserve credit for bringing jesus to her. That’s a very good, loving thing. Good luck and i’ll keep praying for you.

thank you and god love you!