My Position on Homosexuality

[YinYangMom]

Gnosis:

Sex is an act of love, as you would all agree, so when two people are joined in this act of love, it becomes, if you will, an act of worship to God, who is Love itself.

I know several homosexual couples who truly and dearly love each other. They treat each other with such respect, dignity and kindness that it’s easy to see why they became a couple. Some of these couples honestly believe their lives are pleasing to God because of their true intentions toward the other. They honor and respect the guidelines of Christ by caring for each other, for the needy, for treating everyone with charity. I understand and accept that these people love each other, but I also know that they don’t know the true meaning of love. If they did, they would never, ever, compromise the soul of their intended by engaging in what they know is not ‘normal’ sex.

God is love, as you pointed out. He’s real love. Not this version of love you’ve painted for yourselves. God loves us so much He joins us in the marital embrace and blesses the union with life. When two people of the same gender engage in your definition of ‘sex’ it cannot produce life and so God is not present. There is no way your embrace can be seen by God as an act of worship to Him because you’ve cut him out of the loop. He can’t participate in your embrace as He can in a heterosexual marital embrace. If He can’t participate with you then how could you expect Him to bless your union?

 

[MikeinSD]

Hey Gnosis:

What you are feeling is like every other gay guy. Lots of posters here think we want to have sex with men because we are preverted. I don’t think they understand that we fall in love with men. Just like they do with their spouses. Further I think that idea of same sex romantic love is very threatening to them. Therefore, the intense opposition to same sex love. And pls note, it’s always man-man love that’s forbidden. Apparently women loving women doesn’t scare them as much.

I used to work with the American Psychological Assn. All the scientific and peer reviewed studies show homosexuality is a constant varient. And yes, you are normal. And yes a percentage of men and women are gay in every culture and in every civilization. It’s part of the great human story.

I hope you hang here and learn from some of the posters here. They will disagree with you, sometimes profoundly, but I think most are good hearted people. Not the bigots I thought when I joined.

Good luck.

 

[YinYangMom]

But these forums paint a rather different portrayal of the sexual act. Sex here is painted as nothing more than a carnal desire, and perhaps, the easiest method in which we can earn our seat in hellfire. Discard sex, I am told, for it is a sacrifice you should be willing to make for the approval of the sexless male God, who gives us this beautiful desire, but yet denies many of us of its fulfillment, who gives us this desire, but defames it as nothing more than ‘something of the flesh’, unworthy of further consideration.

Man did not define sexual intimacy. It was stamped into our bodies by God. Granted, some of you believe you have been stamped differently. You’ve managed to rationalize that because He made you the way you are then He must intend for you to be ‘true’ to yourself by finding another and uniting with him/her. But that just isn’t the case.

First of all, God didn’t stamp people differently. Every one of us is created in the image and likeness of God. But sometime in their life, perhaps over the duration of most of their life, some people are heavily influenced by a myriad of factors which lead them to believe they are different. While ‘coming out of the closet’ is not easy by any means, it is still easier than living with this confusion all alone. It gets tiresome, it’s painful and it’s lonely. But no one on earth has to do anything alone. God is here for us, Christ is physically present in the Eucharist to nourish us. God calls you to Him, not to someone of your own gender.

You aren’t called to discard sex for the approval of God. You speak about God giving you such beautiful desire only to demand you deny it, but do not equate sex with love. Sex is an expression of love, but so is celibacy. God gave you the desire to Love, as He is Love and He wants you to love Him. He’s asking you to deny immoral sex for real love. His love.

When a single person decides to marry, they are inviting another person to join them in expressing their love for God. They are acknowledging that God sent this person to them so that together, as one, they can share in God’s love for humanity by offering themselves to Him in order to bring new life into the world. They empty themselves completely to God each time they embrace so that God may act through their union.

But until that happens, the single person remains true to God, saving their body - the body God gave them to be temples of Christ - only for Him. Desires of the flesh is lust, it came with the Fall and we are called not to give in to that - even within marriage.

Those of you who are inclined toward people of the same gender are longing for companionship, for intimacy…and while you cannot find that in people of the other gender - for whatever reason - you can always find that in Christ. And that’s what you’re called to do. Stop looking in the wrong places for the love, healing and intimacy you so need. He has obviously singled you out for a closer relationship with Him. Respond to that call. Embrace it. It is not the burden you think it is.

 

[contemplative]

Gnosis:

Its intersting how most people here have assumed that I am confused about my spirituality, or that I don’t know God.

Though I am not Catholic nor Christian, I tell you, in this last year I have never been closer to God in my life. I have truly found a spirituality that quenches my thirst for God. So please don’t assume that, because I am a homosexual, I am somehow distant from God and confused about my positions on the divine.

In this article, Pope Benedict XVI warns youth against dangers of ‘DYI’ religion.

The Pope told the crowds there were dangers in people finding their own religious routes.

“If it is pushed too far, religion becomes almost a consumer product,” he said.

"People choose what they like, and some are even able to make a profit from it.

“But religion constructed on a ‘do-it-yourself’ basis cannot ultimately help us,” he said. “Help people to discover the true star which points out the way to us: Jesus Christ.”

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[Edwin1961]

Gnosis,
I hope you can accept the words of one who ‘has been there’.

My early life was much like yours. I thought I was ‘different’ too at the age of five. I’ve been there when I didn’t feel comfortable with girls and the friendship with boys was less that acceptable. I became an introvert too.

I’ve been there too, Gnosis, when puberty kicked in and raised it’s ugly head. I started to experience the same desires with the male sex as you. At the age of 18, I actually prayed to God that ‘if I was homosexual, let me know so I can continue with my life’. I learned a lesson that took the next 22 years and I found out the hard way.

God then proceed to let me lead a life of ‘hidden desires’, mostly unacceptable. I experienced things (which I cannot repeat here) but know in the pit of my soul, I was doing wrong, but kept going. In that time of my life, I desired sex and became rather prideful over it.

Later, I met a man, ‘lilved together’, but still knew I was ‘incomplete’. With this feeling (and it WAS a feeling) I slipped around and found other men, thinking that it was sexual that I was ‘incomplete’. Three years ago TODAY, ,my partnet decided to simply move out, and I acutally helped him move because he asked me to.

From that day on, I was given my chance to release myself from something that was ‘eating my soul alive’. Right now, you may seem like the entire Christian world is against you. We are not. And it took me some many years later to realize that I didn’t not have enough wisdom to make my own decision in my life. Now I regret ever doing what I had done. I do wish I could still be in a marraige and have a family but age is catching up with me. I am arriving that age that I cannot consumate the marraige with a woman if she is unable to conceive too. Yet, I wonder if my life would have been more joyous IF I had a family and children I could nurture and raise up in the eyes of God. I can’t focus on the ‘what ifs’ but the ‘what nows’.

My ‘what now’ is for you Gnosis is to really think about what you are about to do. If YOU decide to go down this path, be aware, you may or may not be able to reverse your course. You say you are MORE spiritual now and in touch with God.
Is that YOUR inner soul talking OR the secular world’s imprint of who God is in your heart?

Seek truth before you commit yourself to this ‘lifestyle’.

 

[mosher]

MikeinSD:

Hey Gnosis:

What you are feeling is like every other gay guy. Lots of posters here think we want to have sex with men because we are preverted. I don’t think they understand that we fall in love with men. Just like they do with their spouses. Further I think that idea of same sex romantic love is very threatening to them. Therefore, the intense opposition to same sex love. And pls note, it’s always man-man love that’s forbidden. Apparently women loving women doesn’t scare them as much.

I used to work with the American Psychological Assn. All the scientific and peer reviewed studies show homosexuality is a constant varient. And yes, you are normal. And yes a percentage of men and women are gay in every culture and in every civilization. It’s part of the great human story.

I hope you hang here and learn from some of the posters here. They will disagree with you, sometimes profoundly, but I think most are good hearted people. Not the bigots I thought when I joined.

Good luck.

Normality is not defined by percentages. There have always been a percentage of criminals and insane persons be we don’t normalize it. Disorder is just that not matter what the disorder is and it is not being bigoted to address intrinsic disorder for the sake of reordering that same disorder to the good. There is not threat or fear or real disgust but intense desire to help a person come into order with their passions.

 

[Topher]

Gnosis:

Its intersting how most people here have assumed that I am confused about my spirituality, or that I don’t know God.

Though I am not Catholic nor Christian, I tell you, in this last year I have never been closer to God in my life. I have truly found a spirituality that quenches my thirst for God. So please don’t assume that, because I am a homosexual, I am somehow distant from God and confused about my positions on the divine.

How do you know that you know God? I tend to be a sceptic and need solid proof. I believe that I know God because I believe in and approach him through his divinley revealed truth and I believe that the Catholic Church has solid reasons to back up its doctrines. Sometimes I don’t feel close to God but that does not mean I am far from him. And some people may feel close to God and not be close to him at all. Look at Osama bin Ladin. He feels like he is close to God but he is most certainly not. Feelings are funny things. They may be good and important but they are not a test for truth. Only reason is. I know when I am close to God because of the objective nature of following his truth.
By the way. I am not saying that I am better than anybody else. I know that there are times when I am **not ** close to God whether I feel like I am or not. I know this, also because the objectice nature of God’s revealed truth.

 

[Bella3502]

Gnosis:

Its intersting how most people here have assumed that I am confused about my spirituality, or that I don’t know God.

Though I am not Catholic nor Christian, I tell you, in this last year I have never been closer to God in my life. I have truly found a spirituality that quenches my thirst for God. So please don’t assume that, because I am a homosexual, I am somehow distant from God and confused about my positions on the divine.

I am one of those people who does NOT assume that you are confused. Within our parish there are many Gays and Lesbians. They come to Church every Sunday and are very active in all capacities. They sit in the same pews as the couples who “live in sin” as well as the married ones who use artificial birth control.

They are all welcome.

 

[Topher]

MikeinSD:

Hey Gnosis:

What you are feeling is like every other gay guy. Lots of posters here think we want to have sex with men because we are preverted. I don’t think they understand that we fall in love with men. Just like they do with their spouses. Further I think that idea of same sex romantic love is very threatening to them. Therefore, the intense opposition to same sex love. And pls note, it’s always man-man love that’s forbidden. Apparently women loving women doesn’t scare them as much.

I used to work with the American Psychological Assn. All the scientific and peer reviewed studies show homosexuality is a constant varient. And yes, you are normal. And yes a percentage of men and women are gay in every culture and in every civilization. It’s part of the great human story.

I hope you hang here and learn from some of the posters here. They will disagree with you, sometimes profoundly, but I think most are good hearted people. Not the bigots I thought when I joined.

Good luck.

You should read the Battle for Normality. The PhD psychologist puts to rest any idea that the studies used to show that homosexuality is normal or inborn are good scientific studies. These studies are flat out politically motivated junk science. Furhtermore, I was also a student of psychology, among other things, in college and all that the psychology classes really taught me is that psychological experiments can be very decieving to the indiscirminant eye. Each study must be sifted through very objectively due to all the possible confounding variables.
I suspect, as the Battle for Normality shows, that the modern studies employed by homosexual activists are filled with confounding variables.

 

[fix]

Bella3502:

I am one of those people who does NOT assume that you are confused. Within our parish there are many Gays and Lesbians. They come to Church every Sunday and are very active in all capacities. They sit in the same pews as the couples who “live in sin” as well as the married ones who use artificial birth control.

They are all welcome.

We are all welcome and hopefully we are all called to repentence and holiness. That would include stopping artificial birth control, IVF, sterilization, “gay” sex, non marital sex, etc. As they are all grave sins.

 

[Topher]

Bella3502:

I am one of those people who does NOT assume that you are confused. Within our parish there are many Gays and Lesbians. They come to Church every Sunday and are very active in all capacities. They sit in the same pews as the couples who “live in sin” as well as the married ones who use artificial birth control.

They are all welcome.

Although, those “living in sin” are welcome, they are not living in communion with Christ nor the Church. If you truely loved those people you would try to help bring them to Christ and away from immpurity. Love does not always mean keeping the peace but sometimes means rocking the boat if that is what is best for another’s soul. False love is not love at all.

 

[felra]

Gnosis:

So please don’t assume that, because I am a homosexual, I am somehow distant from God and confused about my positions on the divine.

First, a question worth pondering (not necessarily rushing to answer):

Will God allow someone to exisit in heaven with a SSA?

Secondly, I would suggest reread the excellent post by Edwin196.

 

[Topher]

felra:

First, a question worth pondering (not necessarily rushing to answer):

Will God allow someone to exisit in heaven with a SSA?

Secondly, I would suggest reread the excellent post by Edwin196.

If someone has SSA now and struggles to live a holy life, they will indeed enter into heaven, provided they die in the state of grace. However, in heaven they will no longer struggle with SSA because in heaven, all of our imperfections are perfected. For example, I won’t struggle with my temper in heaven.

 

[pipoluojo]

Dear Gnosis,
Something tells me that this your ‘cry’ and the wonderful couselling you have so far been given is all God’s own specific design to answer the questions that have bogged your mind for so long.
I wonder how much your parents got to know about your problem and how much they did to help. I would want you to consider this a most opportune chance to get yourself out of the ‘false world’ you have lived in. You can hardly ever get a chance like this again.
It is never too late. God bless you.

. You must have done-it-yourself enough; now let Jesus do it as he wills.

 

[felra]

Topher:

If someone has SSA now and struggles to live a holy life, they will indeed enter into heaven, provided they die in the state of grace. However, in heaven they will no longer struggle with SSA because in heaven, all of our imperfections are perfected. For example, I won’t struggle with my temper in heaven.

Thanks. But I know the answer. The question was to get the OP to consider and hopefully realize that there is no SSA condition in heaven–it is gone, non-existent. Too often, folks falsely believe that the conditions we must tolerate or find consonant in our earthly journey will carry over into heaven. Hopefully this will lead to further pondering: What does this say about God and about my attachment to and/or acting out on SSA?

 

[wcknight]

The Church’s policy on sex is simple, it is a sacred act IF it is done within a legitimate marriage with the possibility of procreation and for the mutual gratification of a man and a woman.

The Church can NOT and does NOT ever condone anything that is expressly forbidden by the Bible. Homosexual behavior is specifically forbidden in both the Old and New Testaments.

We can not change the laws of God, just because we think it is the popular thing to do. Even if the vast majority of the world decides that homosexuality is a perfectly normal thing to do, the Church can not rule that it is okay. The laws of God are not open to a vote or a popularity contest.

We can accept homosexuals as having a burden that no one else here understands, that two males or two females can be committed to one another as a male and female, BUT we can not say that God approves of such behavior, because scriptures specifically says that He does NOT approve.

Even IF the Pope personally believes that Homosexual behavior is okay, he can not rule that it is legitimate. That would directly contradict scriptures, and he can not do that. The first test that any new or proposed doctrine has to pass, is the test against the written word. There are just too many passages that specifically says that homosexual behavior is wrong.

Therefore the Church has taken the only stance that it can legitimately take, and that is abstinence. Homosexuals are called to lead a chaste life. My prayers are with folks who have to deal with this, but I don’t see how the Church can have a position other than what it currently teaches.

BTW the Church’s teachings about Mary and chasitity has nothing to do with a negative attitude towards sex. Sex within a marriage is considered a holy and sacred act. So even IF Mary were actiive within her marriage, it would NOT make her less holy or less pure.

Christ’s Peace

 

[utica]

Topher:

Although, those “living in sin” are welcome, they are not living in communion with Christ nor the Church. If you truely loved those people you would try to help bring them to Christ and away from immpurity. Love does not always mean keeping the peace but sometimes means rocking the boat if that is what is best for another’s soul. False love is not love at all.

I agree.

For years my wife and I have been “living in sin” because of the state of our marriage. My eyes have finally been opened to my responsibility living in such a state. We’re learning that chastity is a great gift and an honest way to live out ones “sexuality”.

I needed to leave a parish that “welcomed” us despite the state of our marriage. I believe now that it was false love they were showing us. I believe now that it was selfishness on their part that caused them to celebrate the sin in our life. Perhaps it was a way of avoiding the sin in their own lives.

I wish someone had said something to me.

I finally left of my own accord. Something just didn’t feel true. I thank God that there are priests and parishes that have held on to the truth of the Catholic faith. I’m happy to be in such a parish now.

 

[Island_Oak]

Gnosis:

What seems to be constantly stated within these forums is the idea that I, as a homosexual, should be willing to sacrifice sexual relations with men, for this, in the long run, is nothing but a fleshly, sinful and irrelevant desire…You see the Church not only winces at the notion of homosexual sex, but it winces at the idea that two people of the same sex can feel for one another as the opposite sex can…So your argument is flawed my friends in saying that God asks only to deny me of sex, for he denies me the companionship and love of a partner that I can commit my entire life to, of which sex is an essential element…So when I am told that my sexual desires are no more than those of a heterosexual, I would agree. Yet it, in your eyes, it is a desire that I can never act upon, while the desire of the heterosexual has already received the Divine Consent. So not only am I called to struggle with this lust, but I am called to remain forever incomplete, unlike the heterosexual, who always knows that he can one day fulfill these desires in the context of a loving relationship…

Gnosis:
Thank you for your thoughtful and thought-provoking post. As a married, heterosexual woman, I’m not sure my perspective has a lot to offer you–other than to assure you that many of us who are not in your shoes nonetheless struggle to accept the church teachings on the very issue you have outlined above.

No normal adult would assert that the sexual aspect of a healthy relationship is merely carnal–or deny that the unitive aspect of sex is unavoidably part of the act. The spiritual, emotional, social and physical sacrifice the Church expects of its homosexual members, to me, is a profound and an understandably overwhelming burden for many. IMHO the Church does far too little in the way of offering support or education to its homosexual members who are expected to deal with this life-long struggle (and no, I don’t buy the suggestion that you can cousel someone into or out of SSA).

You sound so thoughtful and open to understanding both sides of this issue. You also seem to have insight into your own history and to have come to some measure of peace with your orientation as an aspect of who you are an have always been. Please know that those who truly adhere to Church teachings on this issue do so in love and with the sincere belief that the Church always focuses on welfare of its members and bringing each into the fullness of an eternal relationship with God. However, this fact doesn’t eliminate the often intense challenges for some in their personal relationships–regardless of sexual orientation.

 

[jpowers]

you’re right- it is too long. No one makes you believe what the Church teaches, you either choose to believe or you don’t. Why do people insist on changing it to suit their own needs?

 

[YinYangMom]

wcknight:

The Church’s policy on sex is simple, it is a sacred act IF it is done within a legitimate marriage with the possibility of procreation and for the mutual gratification of a man and a woman.

The Church can NOT and does NOT ever condone anything that is expressly forbidden by the Bible. Homosexual behavior is specifically forbidden in both the Old and New Testaments.

Christ’s Peace

This was a point I had thought of making earlier, but forgot…
too many people believe the Church (or the Pope and the heirarchy involved) create laws, rules and policies which **define **Catholicism when in fact God revealed the laws, rules and polices to mankind and charged the Catholic Church with safeguarding and **continuing to reveal **them until Christ returns.

When they get so upset with the Pope and the heirarchy over the policy of homosexuality or other life issues, I feel like telling them to take it up with God, not the Church. They’re barking up the wrong tree there. Of course, I’d do it in a more charitable manner.