My priest said we are saved by faith

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anneramones

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The priest at today’s sunday Mass said we are saved by faith. He said that good works are important, that the Bible tells us that faith without works is dead and that if we have a faith that could move mountains but we don’t have charity we are nothing, but good works are the fruit of the faith, we are saved by our faith. I hope I misunderstood his words but it just sounded very Protestant like. At first when I started digging into my faith and why we are different from Protestants, the faith and/or good works topic was tricky, but then I came to the conclusion that you can’t just have faith in God to be saved. You need to have faith, good works and dying in a state of grace to be saved aka dying with no mortal sins unconfessed. Good works must be done out of love for God and not to pride ourselves. The glory is for God. This is my understanding, please correct me if I am wrong. And regarding good works. The fact that good works are only the fruit of a true faith is the Protestant view as much as I am concerned…or am I forgetting something here ?
 
Works,by themselves, do not save. They cannot. Neither can they be disregarded or separated from faith. Faith may be the tree, but that tree must produce fruit or it will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Consider: Luke 3:7-9
He said therefore to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruits that befit repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father’; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”
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He was no doubt speaking in the context of todays Gospel about the Pharisees and how they believed themselves to be better than other sinners because of their outward shows of faith. But basically what they had was a dead faith because it was not marked by love, kindness, forgiveness, humility which are the real works of faith.

Lk 18 9-14 Jesus addressed this parable
to those who were convinced of their own righteousness
and despised everyone else.
"Two people went up to the temple area to pray;
one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector.
The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself,
'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity –
greedy, dishonest, adulterous – or even like this tax collector.
I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’
But the tax collector stood off at a distance
and would not even raise his eyes to heaven
but beat his breast and prayed,
‘O God, be merciful to me a sinner.’
I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former;
for whoever exalts himself will be humbled,
and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."
 
Here’s what I suggest now, in order to quickly cut thru and move past all the confusion over the stifled “faith alone” doctrine of the Reformers. Regarding our “particular judgment”, rendered by God when we die, the Church teaches, quoting St John of the Cross, "At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

This simple, concise and profound statement sums up God’s purpose for man with the New Covenant. It’s what faith is meant to lead to as faith constitutes conversion to the true God, ‘apart from Whom we can do nothing’ (John 15:5), a conversion and communion made possible as we come to know Him through the person of Jesus Christ. Faith can exist without love as Augustine teaches, but without love faith avails nothing, and we are nothing without it, as Paul tells us.
 
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Where does our Lord ever say “Go, your works have saved you”? Still, 100% of the scriptural references to our particular judgment have to do with our works. One must come first, but the other must also follow.
 
Good works are indeed the fruits of our faith. He is right about that.
 
Ok. Either way we’ll be judged on our love at the end of our life. That’s the measure of what we’ve done with what we’ve been given, with more expected from those given more. Luke 12:48
 
Your priest is 100 percent right. We are indeed saved by faith. Faith is manifested in works. One cannot survive without the other. The only “work” or action that saves in and of itself is the “work” of baptism.
 
We are saved by God’s grace. Faith is both part of that grace, and at the same time the human response to that grace.
 
anneramones said:
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The ideas to remember are three:
Owing to the infallible decisions laid down by the Church, every orthodox theory on predestination and reprobation must keep within the limits marked out by the following theses:
a) At least in the order of execution in time (in ordine executionis) the meritorious works of the predestined are the partial cause of their eternal happiness;
b) hell cannot even in the order of intention (in ordine intentionis) have been positively decreed to the damned, even though it is inflicted on them in time as the just punishment of their misdeeds;
c) there is absolutely no predestination to sin as a means to eternal damnation.
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Pohle, J. (1911). Predestination. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm
 
anneramones said:
so where is the difference with Protestants?
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In Catholicism we “work out” our salvation together with He who works in us (Phil 2) throughout the course of our lives. And that relationship begins with faith.

And while there is no united position or understanding of the Protestant teaching of “Sola fide”, in general “faith alone” means that salvation ends with faith; it’s a done deal so long as you believe.

In Catholicism faith opens the door to communion with God and the life of grace that this relationship affords. We’re to grow in righteousness, grow closer to God as we follow His will (which includes doing the works of love that He’s prepared for us to do as per Eph 2:10) or alternatively, refuse His grace and lose that state of righteousness and nearness to Him, returning to sin and the values and ways of the world. In the end we’re judged based on what we’ve done with whatever we were given, expected to grow in perfection, to grow in love, as He loves.

And while Protestant positions vary, because they have no central authority to determine such matters, many Protestants believe a person is saved all at once and can never lose their salvation, because their righteousness is said to be merely imputed, or declared.
 
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Faith itself has an element of work.
The error is to oppose faith and works as separate elements. In the fullness of Catholic faith, you must come to appreciate both/and rather that either/or.

Our faithful response to grace involves human action. Human action includes invisible movements of the will, thoughts, religious/liturgical actions, etc…or “works”.
Faith and works are integrated. One without the other is meaningless.
 
We are saved by grace. Faith and works are both very important, as is the grace of God.
 
Yes, and another way of saying this is that in Catholicism justification and sanctification cannot be separated, whereas in Protestantism they are.
 
Yes, and these also cannot be separated. The Council of Trent teaches that faith and works are both matters of grace-gifts of God without which we cannot be saved, and gifts that we must accept and cooperate with or participate in.
 
po18guy said:
Works,by themselves, do not save. They cannot.
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People say this, but is it really true? Doesn’t the church hold that people who have no faith (ie, they weren’t raised in the faith and noone ever made a convincing argument to them for God’s existence) but live a good life can be saved? Or at least the church doesn’t say definitively that they can’t be saved.

So if those “good atheists” can potentially be saved, but don’t have faith, all they can have that makes them good is good works right? So in that case good works would count toward their salvation.
 
FAITH is as the Key, yet it is not the Entire Bible Teachings re: Salvation.

The Catholic Church has never taught that “One must work their way to Heaven”

The Bible Teaches that Charity/Love - supersedes Faith and Hope

God Commands that we must Love our Neighbor…

Loving our Neighbor is clearly indicated via Faith in Actions/Deeds- via our Actions of Love - toward our Neighbor.

Rabbi Jesus? How do we inherit Eternal Life? –

And James is correct…

All portions of the Gospel referring to the HOW Jesus speaks at Judgement during the separation of Sheep and Goats likewise go directly to God’s Command to Love Thy Neighbor - in ACTION!

Again, NOTE: Good Deeds naturally emerge from Genuine Faith; thus Proving one’s Faith

We do not in any manner - work our way to Heaven with any sort of focus upon any sort of succession of ‘works’ period!

_
 
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