My problem with religion

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I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.
 
I’ve struggled with some of the same questions, so I’ll give you my thoughts. Please keep in mind that I am in no way a theologian or apologist - just a Catholic that has questioned things and searched for answers. I am not trying to convince you of anything - just giving my experience.

Firstly, as Christians - we are taught (believing that God teaches these things via the Bible) that we MUST accept everybody, regardless of life choices, religion, etc. God even tells us to love our enemies. So that bit is a misunderstanding, even though it’s very common to think that (probably because we’re imperfect and humans DO frequently pass judgement - but this is not a matter of what Christianity teaches - it’s a matter of the failure of people to be truly Christian)

Consider for a moment that there may be a ‘one and only truth’ as you put it. Can there only be a half-truth? What if there really IS a loving God, and there really IS a price of death for our sins, and Christ really DID die on the cross to pay that price for us?

Can the idea of God only be half-true? Either there is a God or there is not. Religion is not something to simply help us feel fulfilled and do good things on earth - it’s not a ‘whatever works for you’ type of thing. Either the Bible is accurate and tells a real story, or it’s not. We just have to decide if we’re open to the possibility of it being true. Not what works for us, or what fits into our lives, but what the truth is.

What if it’s really true?

To address your last comment - our religion teaches us to rely on faith, not miracles. God dots the canvas of the earth with miracles because He knows this will help certain people that He loves to believe. I’m assuming that’s what you meant by ‘black magic’ - things we call ‘miracles’?
 
theonetruth said:
I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.
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Do our answers need to accomodate your presuppositions? Those ground rules would be almost impossible to get around. Perhaps you could give concrete examples of the areas in which you are troubled, and then we could offer reasons for the positions that we take.
  1. Non-acceptance of all people’s choices—It would seem unconvincing to argue that Catholics have freedom to do that which is not prohibited, and then make a long list of what is not prohibited. We are not told what kind of cars to drive, peanut butter to buy, or teams to root for. It would be offensive if the Church should enforce that we pull for the Yankees. So what are the specific problems, in your opinion, where the Church intrudes into areas in which she has no interest?
  2. Religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church—People want to follow what is true generally. We often have an impure desire that a particular thing be true, so much so that we will be less than objective about it, but never so clearly that we could admit to ourselves that our belief is false. It seems to me that you are complaining about human nature. Is it the job of a church, in your opinion, to avoid convincing people that what it teaches is true? Surely that cannot be your complaint. If so, you would condemn every televison network, school teacher, and parent on the planet too.
Can you see how I don’t understand your objection? Again, maybe a conbcrete example of your dismay would be helpful?
  1. Religion relies on black magic and coincidence to prove their stories—Are you saying that those who believe had spells cast on them? And why would a coincidence persuade anyone that is not already persuaded? I was in a torrential rain driving back from Mass with a pal last Sunday when a car on the other side hit a huge puddle of water and dumped what seemed like a truck load of water on my windshield, temporarily blinding us, and scaring my passeneger in particular. When the windshield wiper cleared the window, the first thing we both saw was the vehicle in front of us with a license plate that said “mercysomething”. Of course we chuckled that this was God’s message to us. Why not? We thought it was God communicating that he was taking care of us. Now hearing that story, you would think that is why we believe. But no. That is WHAT we believe.
The story of the Gospel is verified more by the lives of those who carried the original message than anything else. The Apostles appeared to be genuine, so much so that they were willing to die for their faith. This is not necessarily unique to Christianity, but it has little to do with conincidence or black magic. Continuing through history there has not been a shortage of holy and verifiable witness to the same Apostolic faith from believers who are also willing to sacrifice, sometimes to the extent of blood for their beliefs. I could keep rambling but I think I might miss your objection. In what ways do you find my church, the Catholic Church, to have employed either coincidence or black magic in some effort to trick me into being Catholic?
 
theonetruth said:
I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.
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You ask for well constructed opinions on a thread that is not well constructed. You will receive responses that will not satisfy you, because it is impossible to answer a question that is not asked.

I’ll try anyway, though:

How many of the things that bother you about Catholicism are actually your problems with the imperfect behavior of Catholics? And if it is an issue with the religion itself, what was the issue? Not tolerating sin? Should murder be allowed? Or is it a specific prohibition of sin you take issue with?

No story in any religion is proved. Faith is the proof, lack of it is the disproof. However, it has been said that “when you lose, don’t lose the lesson.” You can disbelieve a miracle and still hear the good words that Jesus said and know that they are good. Yet you seem upset, as though this were not true. Why are you upset?

I don’t think anyone can have a good conversation here until you answer that question.
 
I think that the way to solve this problem is to look, with an open mind, for the same behaviors in people who are NOT religious.

The institution of Catholicism exists to support the sentiment of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. However, we as human beings are immature and we are never perfect in the way that we act. There will always be judgmental behaviors and unkindness even among the religious.

I can tell you that since I became a Catholic, these behaviors are present in me still, but they have lessened to a degree I never thought possible. I have seen the same changes in others.

Also, it might be helpful to think how people might behave if they had never heard of the Christian religion. How much of your personal moral code is actually Christian in origin? Do you feel that you would have the same values if you had never heard of Christianity, or even of any religion?

Would things be different if every religious person followed their faith perfectly?
 
I keep seeing this sort of theme a lot lately. That, in itself, is interesting.

I think it would be helpful to define “religion.”

Religion is the submission of one’s will to the will of God.

This is the only way we can get to heaven, actually. We don’t do it by “doing our thing” whatever that may be. We do it by doing God’s thing, whatever that may be for us.

The original sin in the Garden of Eden was when the serpent (Satan) convinced Eve (and Adam) to eat of the forbidden fruit. He told them that, although God told them they would die if they ate of this fruit, they would certainly not die, but “be like God” in that they would be able to “choose for themselves” what is right and what is wrong. In other words, they could be their own gods. And this is probably the sin of every American I’ve ever met, including myself at times. I want to choose and decide for myself, apart from everything God has said, what I think to be right and wrong. And between you and me, that has always turned out bad for me.

We can only be truly happy and at peace when we are right with God. When we do things HIS way vs. our way. In fact, we don’t even know what real happiness is in this culture. It has been reduced to mere subjective satisfaction of the moment. True happiness is far, far deeper and more satisfying than that!

I encourage you to look a little deeper into doing things God’s way, and see if your life doesn’t get better. 🙂

Here’s an .mp3 file you may find interesting, by Dr. Peter Kreeft (Professor of Philosophy at Boston College) on Happiness:

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/peter-kreeft_happiness.mp3
 
I hope you sort out your issues with wisdom, peace and kindness.
Best wishes, and God bless you.

Incidentally, black magic has no place in Christianity. 🙂

Peace be with you !
 
Religion?? It might be helpful to remember that we are to worship the God of Abraham. For me that is the reason for my existence. Jesus came to give mankind peace between us and God. Remember Jesus said to love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind and soul and to love your neighbor as thyself. Don’t let religious points of view prevent you from worshiping the one true God.
Peace unto you,
Dan
 
I guess it really comes down to your faith in Christ, what he taught us in relation to our neighbors, and the structure he gave us to consistently understand over the millennium what He taught. If you don’t have that faith, then you must just accept the laws of man which change over time and over locality. If you feel that you have a right to life, that is only valid as long as the majority of your neighbors agree with you. In subsequent years, people could change the piece of paper that gives you that human right with one that says that you only have the right to live until you are 65 years old, for instance.

Christ and His father gave us rules and guidelines in the bible and much more guidance via the apostles that was never written down, just passed down by the apostles (see the end of St. John’s gospel). We are charged to love our neighbors but NOT to give assent to their sins. You can love your child but not love the fact that he is injecting himself with cocaine. In such a case, what would your reaction be to your neighbor who told you that you must accept his lifestyle, not criticize it, and perhaps rejoice with him when he is high? Do you think you might be more concerned about his survival?

If you consider that, according to scripture and apostolic tradition, certain activities are sinful and leads to the death of one’s soul through mortal sin, you would show more loving compassion in the long run by helping someone recognize the sinful behavior and reform. This loving compassion for one’s soul is not to be mistaken for the human-secular version of loving compassion which is to sooth and affirm whatever makes one “feel good”.

So someone’s choice to practice a religion outside the Church of Christ can lead to his damnation, or his choice to engage in sexual behavior that is forbidden by the law that God has passed down to us, or to harm or terminate innocent human life which is expressingly forbidden by Christ ("… he who would harm these little ones … it would be better for them that a millstone be tied around their necks and that they be cast into the sea…").

Since we are charged with loving our brother, one can only show that love by showing concern in the things that would cause his soul to perish - mortal sin.

Christ did not say “be sweet to your neighbor”, nor “be tolerant of your neighbor’s sins”, nor “be friendly to your neighbor”. He said “Love thy neighbor” and as with a child bent on self-destructive behavior, one must help the child change the behavior, not sing love songs to him. That is not meant to belittle these virtues I’ve just mentioned … they are just that, virtues that should always be practiced, but NOT confused with the “love” Christ expects us to show.

As far as the church being the arbiter of truth, Christ set that up when He gave the “keys” (of heaven) to St. Peter and charged him with these words What ever you shall declare lawful on earth, shall be held lawful in heaven. Whatever you retain (hold unlawful) on earth, it will be retained in heaven. So he gave us a set of laws and, understanding that these would be interpreted by many in different ways, he gave us an authority to define the interpretation in St. Peter and his successors. And then He sanctified that authority with the statement that Peter and his successors would be the foundation of the church forever with the promise that the gates of hell shall NEVER prevail against this church he was establishing.

So it is just part of our fallen human nature that we should be screwed up over not adhering to the laws of God - that is the reaction of our souls to sin. When the soul is sick, the body, which it animates, does likewise. There is a supernatural spirit who is bent on recruiting inmates for the fires of hell and he helps screw people up in sin.

Hope that helps a little.
 
First of all most religions Christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices.
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I would think then you would have a few problems with every group, club, association or Nation that you belong to as any time there are more than a few people associating in any sort of official manner there are rules. Living in the United States I have to live by the laws that govern the country. I do not have to like them all but I would not abandon my Country because I disagree with a few things. And I’d say the laws of the Catholic church are inspired by a greater force then the US Congress. 🙂

Typically laws are put in place for people’s own good. That is the case with the Church. I’ve only started really committing myself to the Catholic teachings a few weeks ago (though I was born/raised Catholic). There have been several rules I thought I would hate and maybe even not follow but I have found that submitting to these rules has actually been a positive thing in my life so far. I can give specific examples if you want.
Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong.
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I’d need some specific examples of this to address it clearly, but I’ll give it a shot in a general way.

First off, don’t blame the Church for the short comings of its followers. Every one of us Catholics is imperfect. That being said, yes the Church does teach things and yes we are expected and encouraged to believe them. As I said before, the rules are put in place for our own good. They are passed down from our Creator. If you don’t believe that then your issue is with your belief in God and not the rules of the Church.
Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.
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This is just not true. I have not once in my life witnessed an unexplainable miracle. I’ve never seen black magic. If tomorrow it was proved that one Church approved Miracle or another was actually a hoax it would not change my faith at all. As someone else said, God’s Miracles on earth are not why we believe at all.
 
theonetruth said:
I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.
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I find it strange that one who cannot even master the rules of proper writing can try to disassemble 2,000+ years of theological thought and development on a subject that is obviously misunderstood in the first place.

Try humbling yourself with a sincere desire for Truth and perhaps you will realize that some things are bigger than ourselves.
 
(2 parts - this is part 1 of 2)
theonetruth said:
I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.
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I think i will try to explain this by simply explaining the purpose of religious in general, or more specifically, the purpose of the Catholic faith,

although it may seem like religion is the problem, since being of a certain religion you will have generally the same like mindedness,
but what is religion? in the dictionary it is defined as “a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe”
that explains it pretty well, but to go a bit deeper, we should ask, why would God want religion? why did Jesus found the Church?

this bible passage might shed some light on the subject -

*Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you shall be forgiven. Give, and it shall be given to you: good measure and pressed down and shaken together and running over shall they give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you shall mete withal, it shall be measured to you again. And he spoke also to them a similitude: Can the blind lead the blind? do they not both fall into the ditch? The disciple is not above his master: but every one shall be perfect, if he be as his master.

And why seest thou the mote in thy brother’s eye: but the beam that is in thy own eye thou considerest not? Or how canst thou say to thy brother: Brother, let me pull the mote out of thy eye, when thou thyself seest not the beam in thy own eye? Hypocrite, cast first the beam out of thy own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to take out the mote from thy brother’s eye. For there is no good tree that bringeth forth evil fruit; nor an evil tree that bringeth forth good fruit. For every tree is known by its fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns; nor from a bramble bush do they gather the grape. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth that which is evil. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. * Luke 6: 36-45.

the Catholic faith is not meant to be an enforcer, or a judge, it was not founded to prove anything.
what does the bible say here? it says work on yourself first, become good first, build your virtues, deepen your love, understand what good is, know God and serve Him first, and when you are humble, sincere, and genuine, when you have reached the point of being able to speak without being a hypocrite, then you can help others,
of course it’s not as simple as that, but perhaps you get the general idea,

although in our Catholic religion today, it is not all to often that you find two people with the same exact opinion or morals on any one subject, except among the saints…why is that? what did they do that even the most uneducated saint was just as well understood in the Catholic religion as any other saint?
the answer is - because they simply practiced Charity, they loved God above all else, and their neighbor as their self, and that is the foundation of all things, that is Charity. that is what the Catholic church was founded for, to guide us towards God, to show us the way, and the way is short and narrow…why is it so short and narrow? because there is only one way to heaven, only one God that we may worship, and only one way we can truly prove our love for Him, what other religion tells us to deny ourselves, take up our crosses daily, and follow Christ? no one really wants to suffer, but to suffer for the one you love is a genuine proof of your love for that person, and we can see that in Christ, who suffered and died for us, and the Church takes after that example, and teaches it to us, to suffer in general is not good, but to suffer for someone you love is the most genuine and selfless proof of your love for them, and in that way is very good.

what we learn from the saints is, there is a perfect goodness, and we can posses that goodness if we do what God has told us,
even if you don’t have a perfect or complete knowledge of your religion, you can still be a saint, it simply takes being serious about loving God and being good,
but it is still important to be of the right religion. why? well, the catholic faith was founded by Christ to guide and teach us in this life, not so we can go around and tell others what they are doing wrong or simply what we believe, but so that we may grow in holiness and perfection, learn to love, and learn how to know, love, and serve God.
if we are not living the faith then we are not using religion for it’s purpose,
 
(Part 2 of 2)

some people call themselves Catholic, believe the teachings of the church, go to mass on Sundays, tell everyone else what they should be doing and not doing…and then it ends there…what is wrong with this picture?
they are not truly living as a Catholic, they are not really following Christ,
there are those who speak the faith only, and then there are those who live it,
those who speak the faith and do not live by it, will be judged more harshly, why? because, as we are told in the bible, those who know more, more will be expected of them, because they know how to be good and they know what they should do, and yet if they do not do it, then they are held even more accountable for their sins, as apposed to one who is ignorant and who sins less because of their ignorance.

living the faith is more important then speaking it, but God needed to teach us by some means, otherwise how would we know what He wants?
the means He took was the Church, He founded it for us, so we would have a physical presence to guide us,
and of course it is very important to teach the faith, but we should not lose sight of what is most important in our own lives, which is saving our souls and getting to heaven,

it may seem like religion causes alot of the problems we have…but after considering all i have just said, where does the problem really seem to come from?
you have an opinion of religion based on what you have seen, but where have you seen it? you have seen it from people, lay people to be exact,
you have seen others being a bad example, you have seen them living the life of a hypocrite, teaching others while neglecting themselves, not practicing what they preach,
and not only that, but even those who say “Love God above all else, and your neighbor as yourself for the love of God” or “love your enemies” or “hate the sin love the sinner”…they say these things, and then you see them insulting others who sin, or judging others wrongly, or showing anger over the sins of others…

and yet the Catholic Church teaches us to be harsh with ourselves and gentle with others, to admonish sinners lovingly, to be patient and kind towards others as we would want the same, not to judge lest we be judged, to be merciful, to forgive…who follows these teaching?..you have seen bad examples of Catholics, and instead of choosing to be the good example, you took the complete opposite route,
now i don’t mean to make that sound unsympathetic, and i’m sorry if it does, but i really do understand, and i do not blame you for choosing the path you did,
the problem is, you have not seen what a truly good catholic is, or what Christ truly teaches us through His church, and for that reason, i would recommend reading the lives of the saints, and that way you can see truly good examples of what a Catholic really is…it’s not just about what we believe, but about how we live, because the truth of it is, we will not be concerned with right and wrong in heaven, we will simply know what is right without any question, and in heaven we will simply be good…and so here on earth as well, the most important thing is being good, because we teach more by example then by words, as you have clearly seen…you have mistakenly learned by the bad example of others that religion is bad…but i can tell you, that what the Church really is, and what religion was really meant for, is truly and sincerely good, you just need to look past what people are telling you in their words and example, and instead see what God is telling you…it is His church, He is the head, and we are the body, look to the head and you will see, we see through the eyes, not the body, and the eyes are at the head.

of course religion is not that simple, but that is because life in general is not simple…and the reason life is not simple, is because of sin, sin has complicated everything, and because of that, religion has alot to work with.

well…i hope i didn’t make that to long, but i hope this helps, and i would be happy to answer any more specific questions if you have them.

ok take care.
 
First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices.
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EVERY society, religion-based or otherwise, has at some point to refuse to be ‘acceptant’. Particularly in the arena of sexuality! If one’s ‘personal life choice’ is to fornicate with animals, underage children or near relatives - well, those are things NO society will be ‘acceptant’ of.

Likewise with certain religious principles - if one believes one’s religion dictates the killing of people who are of other faiths (which some Muslims believe), then again, that particular of one’s religion is NOT tolerated by any society.

In terms of intolerance, NO particular faith can lay claim to anywhere near the massive level of human extermination committed by the avowedly atheist regimes of Hitler, Stalin and Mao.
 
theonetruth said:
I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.
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Tolerance

Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.
Code: 
http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/authos/Sheen8.JPG  *Christian love  bears evil, but  it does not tolerate it. *
It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.
*The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. *
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.
*The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body;
but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom. *
*Real love involves real hatred:
whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples
has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. *
*Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”;
it is not a species of sloppy sentiment. *
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God,
which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.
 
buffalo said:
Tolerance

Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.
Code: 
http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/authos/Sheen8.JPG  *Christian love  bears evil, but  it does not tolerate it. *
It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.
*The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. *
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.
*The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body;
but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom. *
*Real love involves real hatred:
whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples
has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. *
*Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”;
it is not a species of sloppy sentiment. *
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God,
which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.
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ooo 🙂 i love this (Fulton J. Sheen is my favorite author btw) very true and very beautiful :3
 
theonetruth said:
I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.
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Either something is good or bad, it can not be both.
Either something is right or wrong, it can not be both.
Either something is true or false, it can not be both.
Sounds to me like you are trying to mush everything together to be politically correct.

Tolerance of evil is still evil.
Tolerance of evil may be “politically correct” at the time. Hitler and Stalin were tolerated in their Countries for a while too.
 
Minor correction here. Hitler was a pagan deist. He was baptized Catholic but later, obviously, excommunicated himself via his actions. Recently released documents from the nuremburg trials (early 2000 available online at a law school…forget) indicate that he intended to annihilate the Catholic Church, replace it a new national socialist religion, revise history, and usher in a 1,000 year reign of peace of earth. He also used amphetamine and was psychotic from a medical perspective. I personally believe he was possessed by Satan.

Pol Pot wiped out 48% of the Christians in cambodia. The genocide of 10 million Eastern Orthodox religious believers at Holodomor, was a particularly despicable action by Stalin’s atheist regime (yes communism is an atheist ideology). If your primary reason for rejecting “religion” as you say, is “intolerance”, may I suggest that you reject secularism for the same reason? Your position isn’t logically consistent. Furthermore religion is only responsible for 8% of all the wars throughout the history of humanity, the majority of that 8% is directly attributable to Islam, “the religion of peace”. All of this information can be found in Vox Day’s book “The irrational atheist” which is available free of charge at his website. Unfortunately Vox Day isn’t Catholic. He’s still a genius and taught me how to defend the Spanish Inquisition.

You make the common fallacy of putting all religions into one “heap”. This is common among uneducated secularists (no offense please). Proponents of radical Islam fly planes into buildings and suddenly it is not the fault of Islam, or radical Islam, but “Religion” in general. There are thousands of different religions, not to mention many gradations of religious moderation. There are also around 38,000 different denominations of Christianity. Only one of which can claim apostolic succession.
 
dostoyevskyfan said:
There are also around 38,000 different denominations of Christianity. Only one of which can claim apostolic succession.
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Your post was fine, just want to make a minor correction here. I assume you’re referring to the Catholic Church. Whether you are or not, that is incorrect. Even the Catholic Church recognizes the Apostolic Succession of the Orthodox Church. And the LDS Church (which is Bible-believing if not Christian) also claims to have Apostolic Succession (whether it does or not is another matter entirely).

That is all. Carry on with your regularly scheduled discussion.
 
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