My proof for God. Critiques please

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Why bother? I have submitted this material in a number of other CAF posts, on various threads. which a search will disclose if your interest is genuine. And if so, we might pursue the subject.

However, I’ve read a few of your posts, and have no interest whatsoever in attempting to engage a conversation which involves physics and logic with someone who replies with bible verses, however interesting they may be. Better you argue with Moonstuck, who also depends upon dogma and assertion. You are well suited for one another.

If I have misjudged your qualifications for honest mental engagement, please inform me so that I can apologize, you may forgive me, and we can set about having some serious conversations. Thank you.
I, at least, do not flagrantly misrepresent myself in a pathetic attempt to give my utterances some kind of authority when they are among the most banal and platitudinous to be found on this or any forum.

After your frankly preposterous assertion that a scientist should never let observational data get in the way of a good theory, I’m afraid your credibility is in shreds with me. I’m sure you meant to say “a good hypothesis”, since a theory that is not ratified by experimental and observational data can never be a theory.
 
Why bother? I have submitted this material in a number of other CAF posts, on various threads. which a search will disclose if your interest is genuine. And if so, we might pursue the subject.

However, I’ve read a few of your posts, and have no interest whatsoever in attempting to engage a conversation which involves physics and logic with someone who replies with bible verses, however interesting they may be. Better you argue with Moonstuck, who also depends upon dogma and assertion. You are well suited for one another.

If I have misjudged your qualifications for honest mental engagement, please inform me so that I can apologize, you may forgive me, and we can set about having some serious conversations. Thank you.
Why bother? Because you made the claim.
If you have read my past posts (which I doubt since I don’t use bible verses for this topic) you would have found that I stated there is no evidence for or against the existence of an intelligent Creator that will stand up to any standard of scientific proof. So if you have it, show it. I’m not going to search for it.
 
I fail to see how. I said that scholars are divided on the validity of the Gospel of John as an historical source.

That has nothing to do with my atheism / agnosticism. Anyway, I would point out that any agnostics that have no positive belief in God are in fact a subset of atheists.

Atheism is a lack of belief in God. Theism is a belief in God. Agnosticism is concerned with knowledge. An agnostic could believe in God but not make a claim to knowledge of God, which would make him a Theist. An agnostic could not believe in God but acknowledge that he cannot disprove God. That would make him atheist.

atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnosticism/a/atheism.htm

I have no belief in God whatsoever. I don’t even waste a second’s thought on the idea that I might be wrong. On the other hand, I do acknowledge that I cannot make a claim to be able to prove there is no God.

Therefore I am agnostic and also a dyed in the wool Atheist.
This atheism / agnosticism belief system sounds alot like protestantism doesn’t it? Sub-set this and sub-set that. I can’t keep up with all of the permutations. I prefer the pure definitions. Agnostic doesn’t know whether or not a God exists. Atheist says there is no God.
 
I have to say Mr. greylorn, I have read through your posts and your views frankly rather fascinate me. You’re an interesting figure.
Better interesting than likeable, I read somewhere once. And you’re a surprising breeze of fresh oxygen.

If you care to PM with contact info that works for you in case my CAF welcome rug gets pulled, I’ll let you know when my book is published.
 
This atheism / agnosticism belief system sounds alot like protestantism doesn’t it? Sub-set this and sub-set that. I can’t keep up with all of the permutations. I prefer the pure definitions. Agnostic doesn’t know whether or not a God exists. Atheist says there is no God.
All you have to understand is that agnositicism is about knowledge and Atheism is about belief. It’s that simple.

You either believe in God or you don’t. You can’t half believe in God.
 
All you have to understand is that agnositicism is about knowledge and Atheism is about belief. It’s that simple.

You either believe in God or you don’t. You can’t half believe in God.
Can’t someone believe they don’t know?
 
Can’t someone believe they don’t know?
The law of excluded middle. You either believe in God or you do not believe in God. The idea of Angosticism as a third way is based on a misunderstanding on the difference between belief and knowledge.

I believe my girlfriend loves me. I know that 2 + 2 = 4.
 
Just want to say, I find it rather funny how 2 rivals have united in the face of a common antagonist (greylorn).

Heh.

Okay, I’ll shut up now.
 
Just want to say, I find it rather funny how 2 rivals have united in the face of a common antagonist (greylorn).

Heh.

Okay, I’ll shut up now.
I begrudge big talkers their unearned glory, especially when I know they’re lying.
 
You clearly do not understand what any type of evidence is nor how it is used. There is no evidence whatsoever in the physical world!
Really? How do you define “natural”? That which be seen, heard, tasted, smelt and touched? Thoughts, feelings and decisions are not natural because they are intangible! Where are you located? Inside your skull? :rolleyes:
 
The law of excluded middle. You either believe in God or you do not believe in God. The idea of Angosticism as a third way is based on a misunderstanding on the difference between belief and knowledge.

I believe my girlfriend loves me. I know that 2 + 2 = 4.
I disagree. I know several agnostics who take neither position. They believe they are being open-minded. One of them can argue convincingly for either position.

I say they are being intellectually and spiritually lazy for the most part. IMO they think they are leaving their options open - Like they can say to God when they die, “But I didn’t know!” and that will fix everything.
 
Really? How do you define “natural”? That which be seen, heard, tasted, smelt and touched? Thoughts, feelings and decisions are not natural because they are intangible! Where are you located? Inside your skull? :rolleyes:
Yes. Inside my cranium is precisely where I am located. Evidence of that can be found in examining changes in people with brain damage caused by injury or illness.
 
I, at least, do not flagrantly misrepresent myself in a pathetic attempt to give my utterances some kind of authority when they are among the most banal and platitudinous to be found on this or any forum.

After your frankly preposterous assertion that a scientist should never let observational data get in the way of a good theory, I’m afraid your credibility is in shreds with me. I’m sure you meant to say “a good hypothesis”, since a theory that is not ratified by experimental and observational data can never be a theory.
Hi there, sweetheart.

I am sorry that my credibility with you is in shreds. I was hoping to develop it with you, and to work up from there to gaining the intellectual respect of the neighborhood ground squirrels and other rodents.

I had stated in the post which seems to have gotten you all worked up, that a scientist told me that. “Never let mere data get in the way of a good theory,” was his quote, not my working principle. He was an astronomer, director of the laboratory where I worked at the time. He and I oft spent an hour after work at the little tavern across the street. I tried to convince him the value of my alternative ideas about God and the creation mechanisms, and he would explain why I was full of bull pucky.

Unlike you, he argued from a considerable body of knowledge in physics, engineering, and general science, so he did not need to make mindless, arrogant, assertions or offer irrelevant personal innuendos in the place of cogent arguments. He was good, and all my ideas stem from things learned from him and others. While a merciless debater, he always maintained a sense of humor.

His quote was his way of dealing with my complaints about a paper I’d reviewed, written by an esteemed astronomer with whom we both worked. I was complaining about its theoretical proposition and offered contrary evidence from my own observations. His remark, since become a quote, was his way of telling me to shut up, delivered with grace and good humor.

He had just invented it for my benefit during that conversation, and in my honor, subsequently used it several times in his arguments against my personal metaphysical theories.

If only you could read competently, you would have seen the humor and deflection in my post. (I’m sorry, I forgot which one.)

You could grow a sense of humor yourself to good effect, IMO. In the meantime, I’ll simply wish that your lack of grace or humor, obtuse argumentativeness, and notable absence of contributory thoughts, is a state out of which you may yet grow.
 
I disagree. I know several agnostics who take neither position. They believe they are being open-minded. One of them can argue convincingly for either position.

I say they are being intellectually and spiritually lazy for the most part. IMO they think they are leaving their options open - Like they can say to God when they die, “But I didn’t know!” and that will fix everything.
If they take neither position then they have no positive belief in God. That makes them Atheists.
 
“Never let mere data get in the way of a good theory,” was his quote, not my working principle.
If he had the knowledge that you say, he was either being very ironic or else you have misunderstood him.

A hypothesis that is not backed up by data can never become a theory. Science 101.
 
Really? How do you define “natural”? That which be seen, heard, tasted, smelt and touched? Thoughts, feelings and decisions are not natural because they are intangible! Where are you located? Inside your skull?
If you were located inside your cranium you would have no self-control! All your activity would have physical causes. You wouldn’t be able to think for yourself. You would just be a brain, a lump of tissue, a biological machine… And in addition to being a **mindless **body you wouldn’t even have a self because a self is intangible:rolleyes:
Evidence of that can be found in examining changes in people with brain damage caused by injury or illness.
It is not evidence at all. It merely demonstrates that the brain is the mechanism by which we communicate and control our body. Are your thoughts, feelings and decisions tangible? If so let us know precisely where they are located and how they can be observed…
 
You could grow a sense of humor yourself to good effect, IMO. In the meantime, I’ll simply wish that your lack of grace or humor, obtuse argumentativeness, and notable absence of contributory thoughts, is a state out of which you may yet grow.
Ditto. If I was a religious man, I’d pray for you.

I at least am capable of acknowledging my more endearing personality traits. You, the only way you can raise yourself up is to put everyone else down.
 
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