My proof for God. Critiques please

[momor]

I never said it could. I said it was an infinite number of steps away no matter how close you get to it. No end point. That stands to reason.

However, in mathematical terms it can still be demonstrated as a bounded set.

However, the debate started over the question of whether there can there be an infinite number between 1 and 2. You stated there can be but I said only in theory not reality and you brought in the absolute zero argument to attempt to refute me. I guess you have to concede that an infinity cannot fit between 2 endpoints after all since all the ‘evidence’ you have is theoretical. You have not demonstrated that anything that has an endpoint can be infinite. It requires no mathematics to demonstate it, only logic.

 

[Moonstruck888]

However, the debate started over the question of whether there can there be an infinite number between 1 and 2. You stated there can be but I said only in theory not reality and you brought in the absolute zero argument to attempt to refute me. I guess you have to concede that an infinity cannot fit between 2 endpoints after all since all the ‘evidence’ you have is theoretical. You have not demonstrated that anything that has an endpoint can be infinite. It requires no mathematics to demonstate it, only logic.

No! No! No!

Read this very very carefully.

What I said was that there is an infinite bounded set of numbers between one and two. I did not say there was “an infinite number” anywhere.

 

[Moonstruck888]

You have not demonstrated that anything that has an endpoint can be infinite.

I have never tried to demonstrate that, and have no duty to demonstrate that.

This concept of an “endpoint” that seems to be lingering like a bad smell, explain it’s relevance?

 

[momor]

No! No! No!

Read this very very carefully.

What I said was that there is an infinite bounded set of numbers between one and two. I did not say there was “an infinite number” anywhere.

I am not a mathematician. You will need to explain what you mean. I don’t see the distinction.

 

[JohnDamian]

I have never tried to demonstrate that, and have no duty to demonstrate that.

This concept of an “endpoint” that seems to be lingering like a bad smell, explain it’s relevance?

Start — Actual Infinite — End

Start — Potential Infinite (No End)

That is why an end point is important. If one has to have an “End Point” and one claims an unbounded middle, one is claiming an “actual infinite”, which is contrary to logic as an actual infinite cannot be composed of finite parts.

 

[Moonstruck888]

I am not a mathematician. You will need to explain what you mean. I don’t see the distinction.

It’s quite simple. There are an infinite set of numbers between one and two. The set is also bounded. x is more than or equal to one and less than or equal to two.

 

[Moonstruck888]

Start — Actual Infinite — End

Start — Potential Infinite (No End)

That is why an end point is important. If one has to have an “End Point” and one claims an unbounded middle, one is claiming an “actual infinite”, which is contrary to logic as an actual infinite cannot be composed of finite parts.

I see…

If that’s your only objection, then we have nothing more to discuss.

 

[JohnDamian]

It’s quite simple. There are an infinite set of numbers between one and two. The set is also bounded. x is more than or equal to one and less than or equal to two.

You are confusing Potential and Actual infinite.

There is only a potentially infinite number of numbers between one and two.

The set is not bounded. Even I know that and I am not a mathematician.

One can always insert another post-decimal number. Even if the Pre-Decimal number is restricted to being 1, the post-decimal numbers are not boundaried. It is not a boundaried set.

 

[momor]

It’s quite simple. There are an infinite set of numbers between one and two. The set is also bounded. x is more than or equal to one and less than or equal to two.

That’s the same meaning I understood. But the numbers are nothing more than an abstraction if they have no value, e.g. they don’t measure anything. The sliced wood example shows there is a finite limit to any reality if there is an endpoint.

So what possible purpose or value could there be to saying there are an infinite set of numbers between 1 and 2. It’s a statement without any meaning.

 

[Moonstruck888]

You are confusing Potential and Actual infinite.

There is only a potentially infinite number of numbers between one and two.

The set is not bounded. Even I know that and I am not a mathematician.

One can always insert another post-decimal number. Even if the Pre-Decimal number is restricted to being 1, the post-decimal numbers are not boundaried. It is not a boundaried set.

Like you said, you’re not a mathematician.

A set S of real numbers is called bounded from above if there is a real number x such that x ≥ s for all s in S. The number x is called an upper bound of S. The terms bounded from below and lower bound are similarly defined.

A set S is bounded if it has both upper and lower bounds. Therefore, a set of real numbers is bounded if it is contained in a finite interval.

For example, between 1 and 2.

 

[JohnDamian]

Like you said, you’re not a mathematician.

A set S of real numbers is called bounded from above if there is a real number x such that x ≥ s for all s in S. The number x is called an upper bound of S. The terms bounded from below and lower bound are similarly defined.

A set S is bounded if it has both upper and lower bounds. Therefore, a set of real numbers is bounded if it is contained in a finite interval.

For example, between 1 and 2.

What is meant by “Finite Interval” ?

And at what point do I have to stop putting another post-decimal number on my hypothetical blackboard, is it after one billion 1.9999999999’s, or two billion?

 

[Moonstruck888]

That’s the same meaning I understood. But the numbers are nothing more than an abstraction if they have no value, e.g. they don’t measure anything. The sliced wood example shows there is a finite limit to any reality if there is an endpoint.

So what possible purpose or value could there be to saying there are an infinite set of numbers between 1 and 2. It’s a statement without any meaning.

I can’t believe I’m hearing this. Two philosophers who put stock in logic that leads them to the conclusion that omnidimensional hyper intelligences with a penchent for arts and crafts exist telling me that I’m making abstractions…

Bed time… See you both on the flipside…

 

[Moonstruck888]

What is meant by “Finite Interval” ?

And at what point do I have to stop putting another post-decimal number on my hypothetical blackboard, is it after one billion 1.9999999999’s, or two billion?

You’ve already asked this. Never. is never good for you?

 

[momor]

I can’t believe I’m hearing this. Two philosophers who put stock in logic that leads them to the conclusion that omnidimensional hyper intelligences with a penchent for arts and crafts exist telling me that I’m making abstractions…

Bed time… See you both on the flipside…

But God IS infinite, completely unbounded, and He is NOT a meaningless abstraction. See how great He is? Much greater than the mathematics or science box that you want to fit Him into and use to try and define His existence. Perhaps that is why you fail to SEE Him all around you? Try THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX.

 

[Moonstruck888]

But God IS infinite, completely unbounded, and He is NOT a meaningless abstraction. See how great He is? Much greater than the mathematics or science box that you want to fit Him into and use to try and define His existence. Perhaps that is why you fail to SEE Him all around you? Try THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX.

I fail to see him because my mother and father didn’t brainwash me from birth to pray to invisible sky demons.

You see him do you? What size is he? What weight? What colour? How many fingers does he have, if any?

 

[momor]

I fail to see him because my mother and father didn’t brainwash me from birth to pray to invisible sky demons.

You see him do you? What size is he? What weight? What colour? How many fingers does he have, if any?

I’m sorry for that.

Obviously, He doesn’t fit into your humanoid box.

 

[Moonstruck888]

I’m sorry for that.

Obviously, He doesn’t fit into your humanoid box.

So, the fact that you don’t care whether what you believe in makes any sense or not and I do makes you more open minded than me…

Is that going to be your answer to every question? Just duck the issue by ignoring the question and making a claim to moral superiority instead of answering?

Enjoy your superiority my friend…

 

[momor]

So, the fact that you don’t care whether what you believe in makes any sense or not and I do makes you more open minded than me…

Is that going to be your answer to every question? Just duck the issue by ignoring the question and making a claim to moral superiority instead of answering?

Enjoy your superiority my friend…

I don’t claim superiority at all. Never said that, never implied it either.

It is not ducking the question to say that you have to look beyond your science and mathematics if you want to ‘see’ God. God does not fit inside those parameters. Would God be God if He did?

 

[Moonstruck888]

I don’t claim superiority at all. Never said that, never implied it either.

It is not ducking the question to say that you have to look beyond your science and mathematics if you want to ‘see’ God. God does not fit inside those parameters. Would God be God if He did?

So where is he?

 

[momor]

So where is he?

He is everywhere and in everything. We cannot begin to know God except through love. Look at how little we know about His Creation. How can we possibly expect to understand the Creator in the way that you want to understand and define Him - by such limited human means as our brain.

We know what a human skin cell looks like. We can see the nucleus and all the organelles. We know a lot about how they work. We know the genetic code. We know all of the chemicals that make up the cell. But knowing all of this, we still cannot create a single cell from raw materials. And that is just one cell out of all of the creation in our Universe. And you want your human mind to be able to understand God?