My rant on Unity

[fbl9]

a doctrine is a finate statement. you were stating doctrines are theories.a theory is just that a theory not something that is finate. a theory can be rewrote a doctrine can not be.

 

[khutcheson]

a doctrine is a finate statement. you were stating doctrines are theories.a theory is just that a theory not something that is finate. a theory can be rewrote a doctrine can not be.

Actually, I never said doctrines were theories.

Call them what YOU ideas what you wish. It doesn’t change the point Syele is making.

 

[jmcrae]

Ok, but back to the point. Catholics point to the lack of unity in Protestantism because we share a variety of beliefs. Syele points out that Catholics have the same diversity of beliefs within the Church. Hence it’s simply misleading to say that Protestants are divided but Catholics united.

All Catholics in the world have one Pope. Whenever there is a question about doctrine, or the disciplines of the Church, or a question of morality, we turn to him. What answer he gives is the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Protestantism doesn’t have anything like this. Instead, there are dozens of different denominations, each with its own doctrinal, disciplinary and moral authority.

There is no one source, for Protestants; there are many different sources. Now, each Protestant himself only has one source. If you are Presbyterian, your source is the Moderator of the General Council. If you are Anglican, your source is the Archbishop of Canterbury. If you are non-denominational, your source is this week’s guest preacher. But if a Presbyterian, an Anglican, and a non-denominational person were to sit down for a coffee, and a question of doctrine were to come up, there would be no source that all three of them could go to, that all three of them would respect and agree to abide by. They would simply have to agree to disagree.

Y’all call these differences theories not doctrine, and then say that you have a unified doctrine but when we don’t agree on comparable theories you say we lack unity.

You lack unity because you are divided into dozens of different denominations. The reason you are divided into dozens of different denominations may or may not have anything to do with doctrine, but the end result is that it is now physically impossible for all Protestants to agree on all matters of doctrine.

Catholics disagree because we are disobedient, poorly educated, or stubborn - all of which are problems that can be solved, if we so choose. The individual Catholic can repent of his pride, resolve to obey, and hit the books, and by the end of it, he’ll be giving full assent to the Magisterium. An ordinary joe can get the job done in about six months or so.

Protestants disagree because they have no other choice in the matter. There is absolutely no way for all Protestants to agree on everything, because they have no common starting point. Even if all Protestants everywhere were resolved to come to a common understanding, six months would be an unrealistically short time frame to get it done in. So would a lifetime.

 

[Cathy]

The only thing that catholics have that protestants don’t is unity of government.

#56 on this thread

Hello, VARC. I was just responding to your statement, and I wanted to point out something, or rather, Someone the Catholic Church has, in every tabernacle, is Holy Communion, Jesus Himself, the Source of our unity. No, not all who call themselves Catholic actually believe this. But it is the unchanging teaching of Holy Mother Church, from the very beginning, and continuously to this day.

Ask for God’s blessing of Faith to believe this consoling truth. He will give it to you as a gift if you sincerely seek this most precious gift of Faith.
Cathy

 

[Syele]

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT DOCTRINES BUT BELIEFS AND IDEAS ABOUT GOD.

how much clearer can I make that?

 

[Cathy]

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT DOCTRINES BUT BELIEFS AND IDEAS ABOUT GOD.

how much clearer can I make that?

You will not find unity among humanity apart from God. That is why the only institution which has survived intact for 2000 years is not merely a human institution: it is the visible Kingdom of God on Earth. The only unity we have is unity in Jesus, Who is God, made visible in the Eucharist. We who still live in this fallen world will not see the perfection of the Kingdom until we reach Heaven. But we do have a foretaste of Heaven in the Holy Eucharist, Who is our unity. God bless you as you seek Him so diligently.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT DOCTRINES BUT BELIEFS AND IDEAS ABOUT GOD.

how much clearer can I make that?

You gather people for Bible Study and have them interpret a passage in the Bible. I can tell you, people will interpret it differently.

The essential Catholic beliefs as defined as doctrine is One, Syele. Anything else not defined is consider opinions and theories. Only the Church can settle difference through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT DOCTRINES BUT BELIEFS AND IDEAS ABOUT GOD.

how much clearer can I make that?

It is abundantly clear, that doctrines are not the same as someone else’s ideas about God, there is no discusion here, I concur.

Now apply this fact to all Catholics are united to one doctrine in faith, baptism, One Lord that is unchangeable.

Protestants according to your definitions, Hold to 6 or more different doctrine, and many different beliefs or ideas of God, which is not doctrine, Protestant holding to each own doctrine of faith, is not one doctrine, one faith, one Lord but 6 or more

Now, I agree Catholics may have an opinion of different beliefs and cultural ways of getting closer to God, But his or hers different beliefs about a doctrine does not change the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. Thus Unity in one faith, one doctrine.

The end

 

[Syele]

obviously Manny and Gabriel do not get what I’m trying to say or even why, even after all these posts.

that said I will just duck out and move on. No point in us all talking past one another indefinitely.

 

[mark_a]

obviously Manny and Gabriel do not get what I’m trying to say or even why, even after all these posts.

that said I will just duck out and move on. No point in us all talking past one another indefinitely.

Come to think of it, the pope recently lamented the disunity among Christians, not Protestants, as disgraceful.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Come to think of it, the pope recently lamented the disunity among Christians, not Protestants, as disgraceful.

Was PaPa lamenting disunity among Christians, or Christian Doctrine. Doctrine is what this thread was defining in differences.

This is a broad topic when you say disunity among Christians, can you be more specific. If this is true about our PaPa, that goes to show how intune he is with society.

 

[Syele]

Was PaPa lamenting disunity among Christians, or Christian Doctrine. Doctrine is what this thread was defining in differences.

This is a broad topic when you say disunity among Christians, can you be more specific. If this is true about our PaPa, that goes to show how intune he is with society.

It wasn’t about doctrine at all. Not even in the OP. I said in the OP that the things I was discussing were “not required beliefs.”

Then I put it in all caps that I wasn’t talking about doctrine…

and now you post the thread is about doctrine.:banghead:

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

It wasn’t about doctrine at all. Not even in the OP. I said in the OP that the things I was discussing were “not required beliefs.”

Then I put it in all caps that I wasn’t talking about doctrine…

and now you post the thread is about doctrine.:banghead:

Oh Syele, your original post was trying to prove catholic have differences in belief. I tried to clarify that, through doctrine, that your statement was not true. I asked mark to clarify his disunity comment, as I did you. The answer I got from you were names of different arguments about grace and different ministries in the Catholic Church, this does not make Catholics different doctrinally. You were saying one thing that was a misleading statements that Catholics believe differently, we dont, and we wont.

I didnt mean to cause you any frustration, liked the example though, made me laugh.

 

[Syele]

Oh Syele, your original post was trying to prove catholic have differences in belief. I tried to clarify that, through doctrine, that your statement was not true. I asked mark to clarify his disunity comment, as I did you. The answer I got from you were names of different arguments about grace and different ministries in the Catholic Church, this does not make Catholics different doctrinally. You were saying one thing that was a misleading statements that Catholics believe differently, we dont, and we wont.

I didnt mean to cause you any frustration, liked the example though, made me laugh.

So you deny that you have any kind of beliefs outside of Doctrine??

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

So you deny that you have any kind of beliefs outside of Doctrine??

Thats a trick question because you are not specific, and this could lead to another misunderstanding.

So I will say this or repeat. The Catholic Church only has one doctrine belief, no other. The body of Jesus Christ has many members, and not all members do the same thing. This does not say because we are different functioning parts of the body of Jesus Christ, we believe differently, on the contrary, what unites all Catholics is our same belief in one doctrine.

 

[Namesake]

what unites all Catholics is our same belief in one doctrine.

That isn’t true in my experience with Catholics. There are many different beliefs, but they all claim to be Catholic so they are united by that belief. But they sure do not believe in all the teachings of the Catholic Church, therefor I do not consider them to be Catholic.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

That isn’t true in my experience with Catholics. There are many different beliefs, but they all claim to be Catholic so they are united by that belief. But they sure do not believe in all the teachings of the Catholic Church, therefor I do not consider them to be Catholic.

Why dont I find disagreement with your statement?.mmmmm, oh here it is, (quote by Namesake “But they sure do not believe in all the teachings of the Catholic church, therefor I do not consider them to be Catholic”)

I could not have said it better myself, Namesake thank you. I 100% agree with you on your quote I posted.

 

[Syele]

Thats a trick question because you are not specific, and this could lead to another misunderstanding.

So I will say this or repeat. The Catholic Church only has one doctrine belief, no other. The body of Jesus Christ has many members, and not all members do the same thing. This does not say because we are different functioning parts of the body of Jesus Christ, we believe differently, on the contrary, what unites all Catholics is our same belief in one doctrine.

Why are we talking about doctrine when I asked a question 13 or so pages ago about things that are NOT doctrine and then mentioned quite a few times I wasn’t asking about doctrine? Are you jsut trying to be difficult or what?

 

[Namesake]

Why dont I find disagreement with your statement?.mmmmm, oh here it is, (quote by Namesake “But they sure do not believe in all the teachings of the Catholic church, therefor I do not consider them to be Catholic”)

I could not have said it better myself, Namesake thank you. I 100% agree with you on your quote I posted.

Yeah but, they really do consider themselves to be Catholics. They go to Mass, they receive the Eucharist, they basically do all the outwardly visible stuff but they do not accept all the teachings of the Church. I wonder what percentage they represent?

So when you talk about the unity of the One True Church it might be a different deal than you would hope for because I would call them Protestants in Catholic disguise.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Yeah but, they really do consider themselves to be Catholics. They go to Mass, they receive the Eucharist, they basically do all the outwardly visible stuff but they do not accept all the teachings of the Church. I wonder what percentage they represent?

So when you talk about the unity of the One True Church it might be a different deal than you would hope for because I would call them Protestants in Catholic disguise.

I think your right, there are many Catholics who do not know their doctrine, and may agree to disagree, and like you say may not accept the teachings but just keep going. these are the ones that get pulled out of the Church by other denominations, because they dont adhere to the teachings of the Catholic church fall out of Grace, and find it easy to just believe instead of making their life right with God. I will be the first to admit, the Catholic church is the strictest in the world and yet the most freeest in the world. Like Jesus said many are called but few are chosen.