My RCIA Deacon said people called the Knights of Columbus the Pope's mafia

[MontChevalier]

Hello,

As you can see, just two weeks ago, I finally began my RCIA classes and everything’s been going great. But one thing the Deacon said bugged me a bit and I couldn’t quite understand it.

In the hall, inside the church where people eat and change their clothes, there is a large frame on the wall with the words “The Knights of Columbus” and several inscriptions on it I don’t quite remember. And I asked the Deacon about it and he said that people sometimes call the Knights the Pope’s mafia. I always thought that people said that about the Jesuits, or the Knights of Malta, or some other group. So I went online to look up information on the Knights of Columbus, and their reputation is as crystal clear as water. A group of upstanding people working for charity in the greatest of fashions. The only incident they had was when a homosexual couple wanted to use their church for marriage and were fined $2000 by the government of Canada for changing their minds under an agreement.

But nothing on them being a secretive military mafioso group. So why would the deacon say that…? It’s been bugging me for the last four days. He’s a good deacon and he does a great job; although I feel he’s not then most educated person in the world, you would think he would have a greater understanding of what was going in the church at least…

Could someone help me?
I don’t know what to do.

-MontChevalier

 

[Celticnovice]

My 2 cents, you should have a conversation about it with your Deacon so he can clarify his statement.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Why are you asking us and not him?

My guess was that it was just an “off the cuff” remark meant to be funny.

Remember- “Mafia” is synonymous with family, and the family will do anything for the Papa!

 

[vontroster]

If they are the Pope’s Mafia then the Church is in serious trouble. All of the Knights I’ve seen are about 60+. Sad, really, as it seems to have a noble foundation and honorable tradition. I don’t know of any young person who is interested in joining this group as there is no “young blood” to inspire people to join. I know that for me, it would be quite embarrassing to have to show up at masses wearing that outfit and hat. I think most young people feel the same way. It’s not just a problem with the Knights, it seems to be rampant in all of the “old guard” fraternal organizations. They are simply ageing out of existence.

 

[MontChevalier]

If they are the Pope’s Mafia then the Church is in serious trouble. All of the Knights I’ve seen are about 60+. Sad, really, as it seems to have a noble foundation and honorable tradition. I don’t know of any young person who is interested in joining this group as there is no “young blood” to inspire people to join. I know that for me, it would be quite embarrassing to have to show up at masses wearing that outfit and hat. I think most young people feel the same way. It’s not just a problem with the Knights, it seems to be rampant in all of the “old guard” fraternal organizations. They are simply ageing out of existence.

I wouldn’t mind joining.

It gives me the opportunity to be called “Sir”.

 

[Will_S]

I know that for me, it would be quite embarrassing to have to show up at masses wearing that outfit and hat.

You don’t have to wear that stuff if you are a Knight. In fact, you can’t wear it unless you are 4th degree, so if you were a Knight and just never take the 4th degree, then no one could even ask you to wear it, much less expect you to.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

I think all the men who have considered becoming a priest, but decided against it for whatever reason should then seriously look at joining a “lay vocation”- if you will.

Joining the Knights of Columbus, or the lay movement of a monastic order, or something.

I know I’m very seriously considering it myself. Though, probably not at my age (19). Probably more when I get settled into a community a few years out of college (25-26 ish). And then look at joining the Knights then or something else.

 

[Lady_Marchmain]

You are right, the Knights are a stellar organization and raise millions for charities, education and the Church. I am privileged to have met the Supreme Knight, and the priest who converted him to Catholicism. Both devout Catholics.

As with any huge and successful organization, people wrongly suspect things, like to devise conspiracies, and resent people doing a great job.

The Mafia comment is offensive and inappropriate. Maybe your Deacon is just a bit ignorant about the Knights, or his attitude is too flippant. IMHO.

 

[JReducation]

The deacon is not being rude to the K of C. Look carefully at what the OP says

“he said that people sometimes call the Knights the Pope’s mafia”

He’s not calling them a mafia or any such thing. The K of C are often teased by the clergy as “The Popes Mafia” and other similar labels, because of the outfit of the 4th Degree Knights with the swords, capes and plumes.

If we were in Rome, we would hear clergy and religious joke about the Swiss Guard’s uniforms.

At the end of the day, the clergy and religious love both of them.

The K of C are very powerful in the Vatican, for good reason. They have paid for the education of many priests and brothers around the world. They are the largest financial supporters of the Church’s pro-life ministries. They have raised millions for our pregnancy centers around the world.

Heck, we make fun of each other’s habits. The Dominicans are often referred to as The Penguins. When they put on their mantles, they’re black with the white scapular in the front.

The Jesuits and the Opus Dei (Society of the Holy Cross) have often been called Mafia as well. The Jesuit Superior General is the Black Pope.

Clergymen and religious have a sense of humor.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[dconklin]

I am a 4th degree Knight of Columbus at a Jesuit parish. No sorts of organized crime - not even a little thumb-breaking.

 

[puzzleannie]

But nothing on them being a secretive military mafioso group. So why would the deacon say that…? It’s been bugging me for the last four days.

why don’t you ask him why he reports “what people say” as fact, and challenge him to stop making such comments without proof especially in RCIA to potential new Catholics. explain precisely why it is bothering you as your concern is most definitely well placed. Ask him “who says this and why do they say it?” I for one have never heard it and every parish I ever belonged to has active KofC.

 

[Geaux_Tigers]

If they are the Pope’s Mafia then the Church is in serious trouble. All of the Knights I’ve seen are about 60+. … They are simply ageing out of existence.

I disagree, in the various councils I have been exposed to there are significant amounts of younger men (i.e. under 40). They usually aren’t as active in the organization as many of the older members due to obligations of their younger families. I agree their could be some better targeting to 18-30 year olds but they are far from “ageing out of existence”.

 

[Cristiano]

The deacon is not being rude to the K of C. Look carefully at what the OP says

“he said that people sometimes call the Knights the Pope’s mafia”

He’s not calling them a mafia or any such thing. The K of C are often teased by the clergy as “The Popes Mafia” and other similar labels, because of the outfit of the 4th Degree Knights with the swords, capes and plumes.

If we were in Rome, we would hear clergy and religious joke about the Swiss Guard’s uniforms.

At the end of the day, the clergy and religious love both of them.

The K of C are very powerful in the Vatican, for good reason. They have paid for the education of many priests and brothers around the world. They are the largest financial supporters of the Church’s pro-life ministries. They have raised millions for our pregnancy centers around the world.

Heck, we make fun of each other’s habits. T**he Dominicans are often referred to as The Penguins. ** When they put on their mantles, they’re black with the white scapular in the front.

The Jesuits and the Opus Dei (Society of the Holy Cross) have often been called Mafia as well. The Jesuit Superior General is the Black Pope.

Clergymen and religious have a sense of humor.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I will have to go to confession again for my clarification but the derogatory term “Penguin” is associated with the black and white habits that the nuns commonly used and it is part of the Roman slang. The term was used in the plural form because the sisters were always seen in groups of three.

 

[Cristiano]

Hello,

As you can see, just two weeks ago, I finally began my RCIA classes and everything’s been going great. But one thing the Deacon said bugged me a bit and I couldn’t quite understand it.

In the hall, inside the church where people eat and change their clothes, there is a large frame on the wall with the words “The Knights of Columbus” and several inscriptions on it I don’t quite remember. And I asked the Deacon about it and he said that people sometimes call the Knights the Pope’s mafia. I always thought that people said that about the Jesuits, or the Knights of Malta, or some other group. So I went online to look up information on the Knights of Columbus, and their reputation is as crystal clear as water. A group of upstanding people working for charity in the greatest of fashions. The only incident they had was when a homosexual couple wanted to use their church for marriage and were fined $2000 by the government of Canada for changing their minds under an agreement.

But nothing on them being a secretive military mafioso group. So why would the deacon say that…? It’s been bugging me for the last four days. He’s a good deacon and he does a great job; although I feel he’s not then most educated person in the world, you would think he would have a greater understanding of what was going in the church at least…

Could someone help me?
I don’t know what to do.

-MontChevalier

I tend to agree with some of the posters that think of the deacon comment simply as referring to a nasty but not unusual comment. You must also look at history to understand the comment. In the Italian communities that were formed here in the USA there was a deep respect for anybody associated with the Catholic Church, thus the KoC were a nice conduit for some unscrupulous people that wanted to obtain some form of legitimacy in their own communities. This is still going on in Italy where in some villages of the south where the families of the organized crime choose their own representatives to carry the statues of patron saints in the processions associated with local religious feasts. Recently it was reported in the Italian news about a showdown between a local pastor (supported by his bishop) and some local mafiosi. This is a sad reality but evil people will use the Church for their own dirty affair and that could cast doubts on pious religious organizations.

 

[Pakesh]

If they are the Pope’s Mafia then the Church is in serious trouble. All of the Knights I’ve seen are about 60+. Sad, really, as it seems to have a noble foundation and honorable tradition. I don’t know of any young person who is interested in joining this group as there is no “young blood” to inspire people to join. I know that for me, it would be quite embarrassing to have to show up at masses wearing that outfit and hat. I think most young people feel the same way. It’s not just a problem with the Knights, it seems to be rampant in all of the “old guard” fraternal organizations. They are simply ageing out of existence.

I respectfully disagree. This may be the case in your area, but not mine. I am a member and officer of Council 6292 and we have many, many, young people. Most of the officers are young people and we have had 20+ 18 yr old candidates. We have even helped set up a Council for the nearby University. The Knights are growing:thumbsup:
God Bless,
Pakesh

p.s. The outfits you mention are for members who take the 4th Degree (which is done at a State level) and choose to be in the Colour Corps. Not every Knight does that. It is entirely a personal choice.

 

[Pakesh]

I disagree, in the various councils I have been exposed to there are significant amounts of younger men (i.e. under 40). They usually aren’t as active in the organization as many of the older members due to obligations of their younger families. I agree their could be some better targeting to 18-30 year olds but they are far from “ageing out of existence”.

Exactly my experience in my Council, 6292

God Bless,
Pakesh

 

[Heath_Bar]

I know of some great influential men that are in our council, but I really don’t see them going around and breaking the legs of those who don’t agree with our priest or “strongly suggest” a certain amount to be donated in the collection plate.

The Knights are a wonderful organization that support the Church, but the swords of the 4th degree are not meant for dispensing with enemies.

 

[JReducation]

I am a 4th degree Knight of Columbus at a Jesuit parish. No sorts of organized crime - not even a little thumb-breaking.

Now, THAT’S funny.

I will have to go to confession again for my clarification but the derogatory term “Penguin” is associated with the black and white habits that the nuns commonly used and it is part of the Roman slang. The term was used in the plural form because the sisters were always seen in groups of three.

I do remember that sisters who wore the black and white were called penguins too.

Among male religious it’s used more frequently for the Dominicans. The Dominican friars our ot St. Louis had a great little pad, I guess it’s like a note pad, where they had a penguin instead of a friar.

I fail to see why people are getting upset about this statement. It is not rue. The Knights do not take offense at it. It does not sound as if the deacon said it to be mean. It sounds more like he was just stating a fact, "some people call the Knights . . . "

We have to allow the clergy to have a sense of humor folks. Otherwise, you’re going to create a situation where clergy and religious will be afraid to open their mouths in the presence of the laity for fear of being misunderstood.

If you want to hear some stereotypical banter go back and forth, sit in a room with a few Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits. They roast each other at every opportunity. We don’t care. It’s fun to do. We know that no one means any harm.

This is the case with the Knights. The Knights know how much they are loved by the clergy and male religious. They take bantering in good humor.

Where I’m stationed we have hundreds of Knights between 20 - 99 years old. The male religious and clergy are the first to tease them when they dress up for ceremony. However, they are always included in every formal ceremony and every big event.

Those people who are taking offense at this statement, may be over reacting. To the OP, let it go. It’s a joke. The Knights know that it’s a joke. Just like the Swiss Guard know, the Jesuits know, the Franciscans know, the Dominicans know and the Opus Dei knows. As you become more and more involved in Catholicism, you will be exposed to “clerical” humor, which is usually pretty bland.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[barb_finnegan]

The deacon is not being rude to the K of C. Look carefully at what the OP says

“he said that people sometimes call the Knights the Pope’s mafia”

He’s not calling them a mafia or any such thing. The K of C are often teased by the clergy as “The Popes Mafia” and other similar labels, because of the outfit of the 4th Degree Knights with the swords, capes and plumes.

If we were in Rome, we would hear clergy and religious joke about the Swiss Guard’s uniforms.

At the end of the day, the clergy and religious love both of them.

The K of C are very powerful in the Vatican, for good reason. They have paid for the education of many priests and brothers around the world. They are the largest financial supporters of the Church’s pro-life ministries. They have raised millions for our pregnancy centers around the world.

Heck, we make fun of each other’s habits. The Dominicans are often referred to as The Penguins. When they put on their mantles, they’re black with the white scapular in the front.

The Jesuits and the Opus Dei (Society of the Holy Cross) have often been called Mafia as well. The Jesuit Superior General is the Black Pope.

Clergymen and religious have a sense of humor.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Hey Brother JR,

I didn’t know that the Dominicans were called ‘Penguins’! Ha!

What do the Dominicans call the Franciscans?

 

[JReducation]

Hey Brother JR,

I didn’t know that the Dominicans were called ‘Penguins’! Ha!

What do the Dominicans call the Franciscans?

Actually, the Dominicans don’t roast the Franciscans. The Jesuits roast the Franciscans. They have a saying (let me see if I get it right).

**What are the three great mysteries of the faith?

1. How is the Holy Trinity possible?
2. What a Jesuit is thinking?
3. How many kinds of Franciscans are there?**

I think that’s the way it goes. I’m horrible for jokes. I always ruin the punchline.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF