C
Cristiano
Guest
Are you sure? I always thought that the Franciscans were fryers.
My RCIA Deacon said people called the Knights of Columbus the Pope's mafia
- Status
J
JReducation
Guest
The monks use that one to roast (no pun intended) the mendicants. All mendicants are friars.Are you sure? I always thought that the Franciscans were fryers.
Trinitarians
Dominicans
Franciscans
Carmelites
The Trappists started that. In the past, diocesan priests used to go on retreat to Trappist monasteries. They always came back with that line. That’s how that spread. We think it’s a riot.
The few times that you will see a friar offended is if you call them “monk” or “fathers”. Those words imply a certain way of life that is foreign to friars. We’re not monks and we have many friars who are priest and friar, but we’re not the Dominican Fathers or Carmelite Fathers, etc. We’re the friars.
If you want to see real roasting, sit down with a group of Trappists. They don’t talk very much. But when they do, they’re a riot. They spend their recreation time making fun of the whole world. I went through theology with a Trappist. When his monks came to town, they stayed at our house. They would have us in stiches.
Franciscans get teased for the way we dress. The other male religious and the secular clergy say we’re slobs. We think it’s funny, but it’s true. We are slobs.
Our habits rarely get washed. They’re always mended and patched. You can always tell the friars who like cigars, because they have big holes in their habits. We rarely shave. We don’t wear pants. We hardly ever wear shoes and if we do, we wear them and wear them and wear them.
I sometimes think that we have a lighter sense of humor than most lay people. Maybe it has to do with our formation. Male religious, especially friars and monks, are very heavy on detachment. One of the lessons that you learn very early in religious life is to let things go. You learn to relax.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
A
ATeutonicKnight
Guest
Can I copy this onto posters and send them across all the churches in the United States?The monks use that one to roast (no pun intended) the mendicants. All mendicants are friars.
Trinitarians
Dominicans
Franciscans
Carmelites
The Trappists started that. In the past, diocesan priests used to go on retreat to Trappist monasteries. They always came back with that line. That’s how that spread. We think it’s a riot.
The few times that you will see a friar offended is if you call them “monk” or “fathers”. Those words imply a certain way of life that is foreign to friars. We’re not monks and we have many friars who are priest and friar, but we’re not the Dominican Fathers or Carmelite Fathers, etc. We’re the friars.
If you want to see real roasting, sit down with a group of Trappists. They don’t talk very much. But when they do, they’re a riot. They spend their recreation time making fun of the whole world. I went through theology with a Trappist. When his monks came to town, they stayed at our house. They would have us in stiches.
Franciscans get teased for the way we dress. The other male religious and the secular clergy say we’re slobs. We think it’s funny, but it’s true. We are slobs.
Our habits rarely get washed. They’re always mended and patched. You can always tell the friars who like cigars, because they have big holes in their habits. We rarely shave. We don’t wear pants. We hardly ever wear shoes and if we do, we wear them and wear them and wear them.
I sometimes think that we have a lighter sense of humor than most lay people. Maybe it has to do with our formation. Male religious, especially friars and monks, are very heavy on detachment. One of the lessons that you learn very early in religious life is to let things go. You learn to relax.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
I want to become a Friar, and I am always annoyed when people say they are Monks and live a Monastic life, so when you got into your bit about how that offends Friars, I nearly stood up and cheered. Especially when you got into the bit about Friars being slobs.
J
JReducation
Guest
The bold is mine.Can I copy this onto posters and send them across all the churches in the United States?
I want to become a Friar, and **I am always annoyed when people say they are Monks and live a Monastic life, **so when you got into your bit about how that offends Friars, I nearly stood up and cheered. Especially when you got into the bit about Friars being slobs.
- I know that it’s annoying. Just breath and remember that most Catholics have no understanding of religious life. Anything in a robe is a priest and any woman in vows is a nun and that’s the limit of their knowledge, which makes them wrong 99% of the time.
- Women religious also have the same gripe about the laity and the secular clergy, because they call them nuns. They are not nuns. Nuns make up .05% of the women religious in the Catholic Church and that’s when you put all the 23 Churches together. The East has more nuns than the does the Roman Church. We have hundreds of thousands of sisters and women religious, but very few nuns.
- If you put this out there, you’re going to get two reactions.
Traditionalists: some hate Franciscans, because Franciscans have challenged the SSPX’s lack of obedience and submission to the papacy and the General Ministers asked the Holy Father to dismmiss every frair who alligned with Archbishop Lefebvre. These men cannot be readmitted until they break all ties with the SSPX, even if the SSPX is reconciled.
Those who do not hate the friars don’t really undestand the difference between a monastic life and a conventual life. Nor do they understand that the Franciscans were meant to be “popular” not as in famous, but as in common. They always lived and worked among the common people.
Others don’t like the way the friars look. There is a tendency is Traddom to go for the clean cut, clean shaven and neat look, as well as the typical parish priest. Friars, even those who are priests, are not typical. My guess is that many Traditionalists sort of look at Franciscans and do like Jewish mothers. They take a deep breadth, roll their eyes, and pray that these guys dress better, not play guitars, and stop walking the streets and would just say mass or that they wear their habits all the time. That’s not part of the Franciscan way of life either. The habit is the option of each community.
The rest: just want the non-ordained friars to go away. That part I have never figured out why. My guess is that it’s not hard feelings, just confusion. These folks don’t understand why a man would choose the consecrated life and not the priesthood. They don’t understand that these are very different callings and that both are essential to the life of the Church.
Franciscans are very insistent on promoting the Franciscan way of life and do very little to promote the priesthood. If a man wants to be both, Franciscan and priest, that’s good, but not essential to the Franciscans. You will see very few permanent deacons among Franciscans.
We’re not monks, we’re not priests and we’re not laymen. We are a brotherhood or fraternity. The term “friar” is just bad Latin. The proper term is Frater (s) and Fratres (p). It has stuck. Today, we’re friars.
Many Traditionalists have trouble understanding the the mendicant traditions are part of the Tradition. The mendicants took the monastic life out of the cloister and into the streets to bridge the gap between the apstolic religious and the monastic religious. Friars are truly contemplatives, as are monks, but also apostolic as are Jesuits, Christian Brothers and others.
Franciscan friars, no matter which branch, are supposed to look like slobs. We’re supposed to do all those things that the secular man does. We’re supposed to have some men who are priests and have many who are not. We’re supposed to be very public and do very little parish work, except in poor places. We’re not supposed to concern ourselves with the middle class or higher. We do teach at great universities, because it’s part of our tradition. We get teased a lot because we’re a walking contradiction. I think that’s what makes the Franciscan family so big and so attractive. It has a little of everything. The goal is to live poverty in total obedience to Francis and the Church.
I’m glad to hear that you want to be friar. The vocations to the friars is on the rise all around the country and new communities of friars are on the rise too.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
F
familyof4
Guest
Maybe it’s a regional thing. My husband is a Knight, and he’s no where close to 60. My son is looking forward to being a Knight when he’s old enough (we don’t have a squire program here).
D
drforjc
Guest
Privately ask him to clarify his comment. Hopefully, he was making an attempt at humor.
R
rayne89
Guest
I love reading your posts. I’m always learning something new.The bold is mine.
Liberals: could care less, because they feel that monks are wasting their time in solitude and silence.
- I know that it’s annoying. Just breath and remember that most Catholics have no understanding of religious life. Anything in a robe is a priest and any woman in vows is a nun and that’s the limit of their knowledge, which makes them wrong 99% of the time.
- Women religious also have the same gripe about the laity and the secular clergy, because they call them nuns. They are not nuns. Nuns make up .05% of the women religious in the Catholic Church and that’s when you put all the 23 Churches together. The East has more nuns than the does the Roman Church. We have hundreds of thousands of sisters and women religious, but very few nuns.
- If you put this out there, you’re going to get two reactions.
Traditionalists: some hate Franciscans, because Franciscans have challenged the SSPX’s lack of obedience and submission to the papacy and the General Ministers asked the Holy Father to dismmiss every frair who alligned with Archbishop Lefebvre. These men cannot be readmitted until they break all ties with the SSPX, even if the SSPX is reconciled.
Those who do not hate the friars don’t really undestand the difference between a monastic life and a conventual life. Nor do they understand that the Franciscans were meant to be “popular” not as in famous, but as in common. They always lived and worked among the common people.
Others don’t like the way the friars look. There is a tendency is Traddom to go for the clean cut, clean shaven and neat look, as well as the typical parish priest. Friars, even those who are priests, are not typical. My guess is that many Traditionalists sort of look at Franciscans and do like Jewish mothers. They take a deep breadth, roll their eyes, and pray that these guys dress better, not play guitars, and stop walking the streets and would just say mass or that they wear their habits all the time. That’s not part of the Franciscan way of life either. The habit is the option of each community.
The rest: just want the non-ordained friars to go away. That part I have never figured out why. My guess is that it’s not hard feelings, just confusion. These folks don’t understand why a man would choose the consecrated life and not the priesthood. They don’t understand that these are very different callings and that both are essential to the life of the Church.
Franciscans are very insistent on promoting the Franciscan way of life and do very little to promote the priesthood. If a man wants to be both, Franciscan and priest, that’s good, but not essential to the Franciscans. You will see very few permanent deacons among Franciscans.
We’re not monks, we’re not priests and we’re not laymen. We are a brotherhood or fraternity. The term “friar” is just bad Latin. The proper term is Frater (s) and Fratres (p). It has stuck. Today, we’re friars.
Many Traditionalists have trouble understanding the the mendicant traditions are part of the Tradition. The mendicants took the monastic life out of the cloister and into the streets to bridge the gap between the apstolic religious and the monastic religious. Friars are truly contemplatives, as are monks, but also apostolic as are Jesuits, Christian Brothers and others.
Franciscan friars, no matter which branch, are supposed to look like slobs. We’re supposed to do all those things that the secular man does. We’re supposed to have some men who are priests and have many who are not. We’re supposed to be very public and do very little parish work, except in poor places. We’re not supposed to concern ourselves with the middle class or higher. We do teach at great universities, because it’s part of our tradition. We get teased a lot because we’re a walking contradiction. I think that’s what makes the Franciscan family so big and so attractive. It has a little of everything. The goal is to live poverty in total obedience to Francis and the Church.
I’m glad to hear that you want to be friar. The vocations to the friars is on the rise all around the country and new communities of friars are on the rise too.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
M
MontChevalier
Guest
You’re absolutely right. We don’t want the clergy to become serious cranky old men. I guess it was my rationalism that got the best of me.
Now, THAT’S funny.
I do remember that sisters who wore the black and white were called penguins too.
Among male religious it’s used more frequently for the Dominicans. The Dominican friars our ot St. Louis had a great little pad, I guess it’s like a note pad, where they had a penguin instead of a friar.
I fail to see why people are getting upset about this statement. It is not rue. The Knights do not take offense at it. It does not sound as if the deacon said it to be mean. It sounds more like he was just stating a fact, "some people call the Knights . . . "
We have to allow the clergy to have a sense of humor folks. Otherwise, you’re going to create a situation where clergy and religious will be afraid to open their mouths in the presence of the laity for fear of being misunderstood.
If you want to hear some stereotypical banter go back and forth, sit in a room with a few Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits. They roast each other at every opportunity. We don’t care. It’s fun to do. We know that no one means any harm.
This is the case with the Knights. The Knights know how much they are loved by the clergy and male religious. They take bantering in good humor.
Where I’m stationed we have hundreds of Knights between 20 - 99 years old. The male religious and clergy are the first to tease them when they dress up for ceremony. However, they are always included in every formal ceremony and every big event.
Those people who are taking offense at this statement, may be over reacting. To the OP, let it go. It’s a joke. The Knights know that it’s a joke. Just like the Swiss Guard know, the Jesuits know, the Franciscans know, the Dominicans know and the Opus Dei knows. As you become more and more involved in Catholicism, you will be exposed to “clerical” humor, which is usually pretty bland.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
It’s always, “Wait, he said that about the church? Let’s see if it’s true. HA! It’s not, it’s superhero time” with me. Understand that I’m often surrounded by people who say things like,“Religion is fake” and the Catholic Church is evil, and they burned witches, and they did that, and they did this, etc etc etc etc.
But at least I can go to my next class without feeling weird about what the Deacon said.
The Knights are a fantastic group. It’s a shame to join you have to be invited (You DO have to be invited IN, right?), but the one Knight of Columbus over here, I think, is somewhere around, where I have no clue where he, or the rest of his fellows, are, so chances are, I probably won’t be associated with the group.I do kinda like the Jesuits though…
And I have been considering lately being one. My history teacher is a Jesuit, so I have a source of information available.
Thanks for all your replies.
-MontChevalier
C
choliks
Guest
JReduction:
Ooohh… but Jesuits would sometimes call themselves “Contemplatives in action”… at least in our part of the world. Trying to swim two rivers at the same time, eh? hehehe.
J
JReducation
Guest
They are actually are. The difference between a Jesuit and a mendicant is that a Jesuit is a Clerk Regular and a mendicant is not. A Jesuit is expected to be a priest, do priestly ministry and pray around that ministry. They don’t have community prayer, though they pray the same hours as do the mendicants. They organize their daily prayer life around the ministry.Ooohh… but Jesuits would sometimes call themselves “Contemplatives in action”… at least in our part of the world. hehehe.
The mendicants do it the other way around. They are expected to be brothers, live, work, play and pray together. Their ministry is built around that, whether the mendicant is a priest, doctor, cook, administrator, etc. His life of contemplation takes place in community, always outside of the cloister, ministry is around his life of brotherhood. Brotherhood is first. Without brotherhood, he is not a mendicant. There is the difference between the mendicants and the Jesuit or other Clerks Regular.
Both of them are very different form the monk. The monk is very free. He has a life of contemplation that he shares with his brothers. He may have a ministry or may not, depending on his religious house. Some monasteries have ministries and some do not. Aside from praying, eating and recreating together, the monks are very free and have a lot of time on their own. They can play golf, tennis, write, study, pray, collect stamps, etc. Their goal is to live a balanced and stable life. Some monks are priests, about 1/3. They don’t take on too many priestly ministries, though they may assign individual monks to a parish, if there is no parish priest in the area. They don’t go looking for parishes to run. They may work together or alone. Solitude is a part of their life.
You have monks, friars and clerks regular. All are consecrated religious, but they live the contemplative life very differently and if they are priests, they see themselves very differently thatn let’s say an SSPX, FSSP, or parish priest.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
C
choliks
Guest
Thanks Bro. J for clarifying!
J
JReducation
Guest
A rigid religious or clergyman is a soul who has lost the battle, before leaving the trenches.You’re absolutely right. We don’t want the clergy to become serious cranky old men. I guess it was my rationalism that got the best of me.
The Jesuits are awesome. One of the things that I admire about them, as an order, is that despite the fact that they have many loose canons, and they do, they don’t lose their spirit and they don’t get frustrated. They keep trying and they keep examining themselves. They don’t own the failings of their fellow Jesuits. They are what they are. This Jesuit is very orthodox and that one is nuts or the other one is a heretic, but this does not faze the Jesuit. He is who he is and the worrying is left to the Superior General. I have always admired that they are unflappable.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
B
Biedrik
Guest
Brother Jr, you should hear some of the ones we seminarians have about the Dominicans who teach us, particularly in their love for St. Thomas Aquinas. Much fun is poked at the fact that St. Thomas Aquinas has a larger stained glass window in their chapel than St. Dominic does. Of course, since we’re all diocesan we love this one about ourselves:
Some Carthusians (yeah, I know it’s improbable), Benedictines, Franciscans, Dominicans, and a diocesan priest meet together in a church to pray the liturgy of the hours. In the middle of prayer the lights go out. The Carthusians just stay quiet, the Benedictines go on reciting from memory, the Franciscans thank God for the gift of darkness, the Dominicans meditate on how little they know without God’s light, and the diocesan priest promptly gets up and says “I’m gonna go check the fuse box.”
You’ve probably heard that one Brother. The great thing about it is all the different versions that you get, with different jokes about each order. I hear the Jesuits like to tell it with themselves in the role of the diocesan priest. Or is it the other way around?
Some Carthusians (yeah, I know it’s improbable), Benedictines, Franciscans, Dominicans, and a diocesan priest meet together in a church to pray the liturgy of the hours. In the middle of prayer the lights go out. The Carthusians just stay quiet, the Benedictines go on reciting from memory, the Franciscans thank God for the gift of darkness, the Dominicans meditate on how little they know without God’s light, and the diocesan priest promptly gets up and says “I’m gonna go check the fuse box.”
You’ve probably heard that one Brother. The great thing about it is all the different versions that you get, with different jokes about each order. I hear the Jesuits like to tell it with themselves in the role of the diocesan priest. Or is it the other way around?
The version I heard omits the Carthusian reference and inserts the Jesuits after the Benedictines:
“The Jesuits discuss among themselves as to whether the darkness excuses them from the obligation to pray the Office.”
C
choliks
Guest
A quality that Franciscans also have with a truckload of humility.I have always admired that they are unflappable.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
B
Biedrik
Guest
Hah, that’s great! Now that you mention it though, I did hear a version with Jesuits. They had been invited, but never showed up!
J
JReducation
Guest
When we Franciscans tell it, the Francisans thank God for Brother Sleep. Which is believable. When Francis introduced the LOTH into the order, the first thing that the friars asked for was to take out one of the hours, because there were too many. Prime was knocked out of the Franciscan breviary.
When the first priest joined the brotherhood, the first thing he asked Francis was for less books. Francis went to the Holy Father and asked for a simpler form of the mass. That’s the form that later became the Tridentine Form that Pope Pius V would tweak.
We Franciscans have a history of simplifying, for which the Dominicans roast us. While the Dominican carries the Summa under his scapular, the Franciscan carries a spiral pad in his breast pockek containing the Beatitudes in bullets.
I see that you’re in the Archdiocese of my very dear friend and brother, Cardinal Sean. You’re very fortunate to have such a holy friar as your Ordinary. Keep him in prayer, follow him in charity and imitate him in humility.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
B
Biedrik
Guest
Indeed we are lucky to have him. The Boston seminarians are all happy to have serve a great bishop. As a plus to all his holiness, there is always that DEEP BOOMING VOICE. I never get tired of hearing it.I see that you’re in the Archdiocese of my very dear friend and brother, Cardinal Sean. You’re very fortunate to have such a holy friar as your Ordinary. Keep him in prayer, follow him in charity and imitate him in humility.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
H
Heath_Bar
Guest
Actually, if you are interested, just go to any Knight and they can help you join. You do not have to be invited. They will help you get the membership form filled out, then all you have to do is go to a First Degree and you’re in. Don’t wait to be asked, just volunteer to become part of a great Catholic organization.
D
de_Tocqueville
Guest
Fr. JR, OSF,
Franciscans and other Mendicant friars are still refered to as “Father” though right? For example, the correct address is Father Andrew Apostoli, not Friar Andrew Apostoli. Or is this just because he also happens to be a priest? How is anyone supposed to know if a friar is a priest or not, apart from asking them of course.
- Status