My RCIA Deacon said people called the Knights of Columbus the Pope's mafia

[JReducation]

Fr. JR, OSF,
Franciscans and other Mendicant friars are still refered to as “Father” though right? For example, the correct address is Father Andrew Apostoli, not Friar Andrew Apostoli. Or is this just because he also happens to be a priest? How is anyone supposed to know if a friar is a priest or not, apart from asking them of course.

When in doubt, always use Friar or Brother. No one is offended by either of those titles.

The founders never imagined that there would be a reason to segregate their sons. You really have to ask. You have to be very careful when asking. You don’t want to offend. In some religious orders, singularizing the priests from the rest of the friars is offensive. For example, you don’t walk into a Cistercian house and try to sort out the priests. They have two kinds of monks, choir monks (clerics and non-clerics) and lay brothers. Everyone is Brother. They are offended if you try to treat the priests as special, because it offends the mind of St. Bernard.

In Franciscan houses, each region decides what to use. Some use Friar, others Brother and others use Father and Brother.

However, when speaking about our orders we say The Friars or The Monks, depending on which you are. Jesuits, Salesians, Vincentians, Paulists and others will say, the Fathers and Brothers or the Priests.

Friars and Monks only use “the priests” to single out the ordained, when it is necessary to do so. Another term you may hear is “the clerics”.

If the friar is a priest, such as Andrew Apostoli, all are correct, Father Andrew, Friar Andrew or Brother Andrew, unless the local law says that you must use one.

For example, in our community, you call everyone Brother, except the superior. You always call him Father. Our current superior is not a priest. But the laity is forbidden to call him Brother. They must call him Father out of respect for St. Francis who is Father Francis, the Holy Father, the Seraphic Father. Everone else, priest or not is Brother.

Americans are more concerned about calling ordained friars Father. Other cultures do not worry about it. In Italy, secular priests are still called Mr. (Don) and in Spain and Latin America, friars are still called Friar (Fray). I’m not sure why that is. I’ve never heard a good explanation for why this is so important to us in this country.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[MontChevalier]

Perhaps it’s merely a part of American culture, don’t you agree?

 

[JReducation]

Perhaps it’s merely a part of American culture, don’t you agree?

Could be. The other day I was watching a program on EWTN. There was a group of Benedictine Monks being interviewed. It was interesting, because they have 35 monks in their house, only 12 are priests. Benedictines only ordain the number of monks that they need for their purpose. They consider more than 1/3 a surplus of priests. What was even more interesting was something that one of the young monks said. I can’t remember the exact words so as to quote him. He was asked why he became a monk and he said that he had thought about becoming a diocesan priest, because that’s all that American Catholics know.

Now that de Tocqueville asks the question and considering your answer, I’m wondering if this the concern with the title Father, because we are more familiar with secular priests than we are with friars and monks, who are the ones that are properly Brother and Friar. Until EWTN came into our homes, I bet most Americans did not know mendicants and monks. Diocesan priests in the USA were always Mr until the mid 1800s. Then they became Father and Father has stuck.

What most people don’t know is how diocesans in the USA came to be Father. The first missions in the USA were founded by religious, mostly Jesuits and Franciscans. The superior is always Father. As dioceses were created and diocesan priests were ordained, they opened mission parishes. The pastor took the place of the religious superior. People were used to Father Superior. The diocesan pastor became Father. Today, only 10% of our parishes are run by religious. We no longer associate Father with a religious superior, but with a priest. As the youg monk said, diocesan priests are what most of us know.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Chatter163]

If they are the Pope’s Mafia then the Church is in serious trouble. All of the Knights I’ve seen are about 60+. Sad, really, as it seems to have a noble foundation and honorable tradition. I don’t know of any young person who is interested in joining this group as there is no “young blood” to inspire people to join. I know that for me, it would be quite embarrassing to have to show up at masses wearing that outfit and hat. I think most young people feel the same way. It’s not just a problem with the Knights, it seems to be rampant in all of the “old guard” fraternal organizations. They are simply ageing out of existence.

Wow, is this ever an ignorant statement. The Knights have continued to grow all over. Sorry if young men are not joining in your area, but in every area that I have visited, there are plenty joining. And the total number of Knights is increasing each year, so apparently you have a little too much faith in your own observations.