My religion is better than your religion

[JMJ_coder]

Now answer my question: do you support a secular society?

I don’t support secular atheism or the culture of death. I don’t support the materialistic pagan society that seems to be in the majority currently. This current culture and society is deeply perverted and corrupt, even in terms of the secular.

A good encyclical to read on this is Quas Primas by Pope Pius IX.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I thought I answered it… not in all things. I do not believe everything is “black and white”.

Now answer my question: do you support a secular society?

Are you absolutely sure there is no absolute truth in religion?

Regarding your question.

I support a secular government, not a secular society.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Here is a truth… you believe the Catholic church is the “truth” and all other religions are lies. Here is another truth, I do not believe your “truth”.

Do you support a secular society?

Those who blindly follow the rules of man, written by man, without questions of origin and reasons of being, risk being led off a cliff.

Actually, you’re wrong on both your ‘truths’, friend.

As a Catholic, I believe our Church holds the fullness of truth. I do not–and never have–said that ‘all other religions are lies’. And the majority if not every post from Catholics to you has specifically said that other religions possess some truth. Therefore, your ‘truth’ is false. Blanket statements, overgeneralizations, and jumping to (false) conclusions have helped crystalize you in your error, because you’re fighting a strawman.

Further, while you may quite truthfully state that you don’t believe ‘our truth’, again, your statement is incomplete as it stands and therefore attempts to portray Catholicism as 'just another religion or opinion and to assign ‘equal values’ to Catholicism, ‘other religions’, even no religion.

Have you not yet realized that in your own assertion that you believe in ‘relative truths’ you have indulged in an absolute statement/judgment yourself? You are absolutely sure that the ‘truth’ is relative. . .you aren’t just ‘relatively sure’, you know.

As for asking if I–or other Catholics–‘support secular society’–do you think that as Catholics we leave our citizenship at the door? What exactly do you mean by ‘support secular society?’ Doing our civic duty? Abiding by the laws of the land?

Do you think we have a secret group plotting to take over the U.S. government (among others) and turn them into theocracies?

And as for your final statement–well, dear, the “Man” whose rules we follow is Jesus Christ. There may be people who are ‘blindly following rules of men without questions of origin, yadda yadda’. . . but your inference that Catholicism itself is ‘guilty’ of such is a prime example of somebody who needs to look carefully at himself before accusing others of blindness. . .

 

[JMJ_coder]

I’m going to dress up in my bloody costume now and take the kids Trick or Treating… later.

Off-topic…but, there are communities that are doing trick-or-treating today? It still almost a week away from Halloween!

 

[DelScorcho]

Many things are not “black and white”. German Shepherds are good dogs but maybe not the best if you like Poodles better. The list goes on and on…but the TRUTH is not on that list. The truth is not relative to your convenience or belief system. A wise person seeks the truth even to his discomfort.
Some men rebel against the Church as they did against their parents in youth only to find later in life that their parents were not nearly as dumb as they had imagined. If you dislike “rules”, as you seem to, why associate with any form of Christian denom?

It’s interesting that you use the analogy that I am rebelling against the Catholic church… for that to be true, wouldn’t I have have been a part of it sometime in my life? I mean you can’t rebel against something you have no part of.

I agree with most of my Christian church’s beliefs… why not be a part of it?

pcusa.org/101/index.htm

 

[DelScorcho]

Are you absolutely sure there is no absolute truth in religion?

Regarding your question.

I support a secular government, not a secular society.

Do you believe there is room in society for more than one religion?

I do.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Do you believe there is room in society for more than one religion?

I do.

Of course.

That doesn’t mean that I think all religions are equally true.

Do you believe that one religion is most true?

 

[DelScorcho]

Actually, you’re wrong on both your ‘truths’, friend.

As a Catholic, I believe our Church holds the fullness of truth. I do not–and never have–said that ‘all other religions are lies’. And the majority if not every post from Catholics to you has specifically said that other religions possess some truth. Therefore, your ‘truth’ is false. Blanket statements, overgeneralizations, and jumping to (false) conclusions have helped crystalize you in your error, because you’re fighting a strawman.

Further, while you may quite truthfully state that you don’t believe ‘our truth’, again, your statement is incomplete as it stands and therefore attempts to portray Catholicism as 'just another religion or opinion and to assign ‘equal values’ to Catholicism, ‘other religions’, even no religion.

Have you not yet realized that in your own assertion that you believe in ‘relative truths’ you have indulged in an absolute statement/judgment yourself? You are absolutely sure that the ‘truth’ is relative. . .you aren’t just ‘relatively sure’, you know.

As for asking if I–or other Catholics–‘support secular society’–do you think that as Catholics we leave our citizenship at the door? What exactly do you mean by ‘support secular society?’ Doing our civic duty? Abiding by the laws of the land?

Do you think we have a secret group plotting to take over the U.S. government (among others) and turn them into theocracies?

And as for your final statement–well, dear, the “Man” whose rules we follow is Jesus Christ. There may be people who are ‘blindly following rules of men without questions of origin, yadda yadda’. . . but your inference that Catholicism itself is ‘guilty’ of such is a prime example of somebody who needs to look carefully at himself before accusing others of blindness. . .

I do believe Catholicism is no better or no worse than other Christian religions.

Do you believe the Pope speaks for God when he makes new church rules?

I guess my question about a secular society meant a society that is not governed by one religion… a society open to all religions. I’m curious if the Catholics support that because isn’t that one of the big reason we broke away from England (the mother country) in the first place… religious freedom?

 

[DelScorcho]

Of course.

That doesn’t mean that I think all religions are equally true.

Do you believe that one religion is most true?

No. I believe that God can be worshiped many different ways (religions) as long as they are sincere.

However I do believe that some religions can be bad for people… like cults.

 

[dzheremi]

Honesty… that was not vulgar.

Trust me I get vulgar and that is not even close.

Everyone else seems to have skipped this, but I think this little post says more than any of the thread-starter’s posts before it or after it combined.

Look…we are Catholic because we care about honesty AND vulgarity, and don’t conflate the two. We don’t say, as you do, “well, what is right for you and what is right for me may be different, so I have no right to have my own morals that I hold above yours, since it’s all subjective.” While you are being honest in describing your relations with your wife (which, for future reference, is not appreciated by me; please keep your private life to yourself on this public message board), we are not talking about your personal pleasure or your wife’s personal pleasure, your personal view on gay marriage, abortion, or anything else. To be Catholic is to give up that part of yourself that says “I want to do this, and I want a way to RATIONALIZE it so that I can still claim to follow the Lord no matter what I do.” That is the sinful human instinct of the flesh, which wants to be afforded all the room it can be afforded in your life and belief system, even pushing out your soul in the process.

Catholics say no to that. Orthodox say no to that. Why you say yes is beyond me, but don’t expect me to give you a green light to do whatever you want just because your church apparently breeds indifference. And before you jump all over me for that last sentence, I was raised Presbyterian and was active in that church until a little under three years ago, when I at last came home to the Catholic church. I know it intimately. I know not all Presbyterians are as flippant as you are presenting yourself to be in the name of “honesty”. You are trying to mask your contempt and hostility in honest and tolerance. I for one am not buying it.

Want some honesty? Sex without openness to the possibility of life is a sin. It is not that we are anti-fun, but to do something solely for the carnal pleasure of it is most definitely to turn your focus away from God and on to yourself, and that is a sin. It is with that same rationale that we are told not to become intoxicated with something other than the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18). That is dissipation (useless activity; waste); so too you may view any such activity that wastes that which the Lord has given you.

Don’t like it? Tough. Christianity is not about man and his desires, but about the Son of Man, and the works and will of His Father.

 

[jmcrae]

Look at the middle east… every conflict there is religious based.

Not really - the conflict is about land; not religion. Religion gets caught up in it because the different tribes follow different religions, but it’s really about land. If they all had enough land, you’d see the conflict disappear.

After all, we have Muslims and Jews in this country who get along just fine with each other, because they all have enough to eat and enough space to call their own, and their property rights are respected.

 

[DelScorcho]

Everyone else seems to have skipped this, but I think this little post says more than any of the thread-starter’s posts before it or after it combined.

Look…we are Catholic because we care about honesty AND vulgarity, and don’t conflate the two. We don’t say, as you do, “well, what is right for you and what is right for me may be different, so I have no right to have my own morals that I hold above yours, since it’s all subjective.” While you are being honest in describing your relations with your wife (which, for future reference, is not appreciated by me; please keep your private life to yourself on this public message board), we are not talking about your personal pleasure or your wife’s personal pleasure, your personal view on gay marriage, abortion, or anything else. To be Catholic is to give up that part of yourself that says “I want to do this, and I want a way to RATIONALIZE it so that I can still claim to follow the Lord no matter what I do.” That is the sinful human instinct of the flesh, which wants to be afforded all the room it can be afforded in your life and belief system, even pushing out your soul in the process.

Catholics say no to that. Orthodox say no to that. Why you say yes is beyond me, but don’t expect me to give you a green light to do whatever you want just because your church apparently breeds indifference. And before you jump all over me for that last sentence, I was raised Presbyterian and was active in that church until a little under three years ago, when I at last came home to the Catholic church. I know it intimately. I know not all Presbyterians are as flippant as you are presenting yourself to be in the name of “honesty”. You are trying to mask your contempt and hostility in honest and tolerance. I for one am not buying it.

Want some honesty? Sex without openness to the possibility of life is a sin. It is not that we are anti-fun, but to do something solely for the carnal pleasure of it is most definitely to turn your focus away from God and on to yourself, and that is a sin. It is with that same rationale that we are told not to become intoxicated with something other than the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18). That is dissipation (useless activity; waste); so too you may view any such activity that wastes that which the Lord has given you.

Don’t like it? Tough. Christianity is not about man and his desires, but about the Son of Man, and the works and will of His Father.

I sincerly appologize if I offended you and will not post like that again on this message board (but like I said I can be much worse in person )

I am not asking anyone for a “green light” as I do not believe what I do is a sin.

As for Presbyterisan, I never claim to represent any of them… I do not believe that oen person represents any group. And I have no “contempt”, but I will never give up my reasoning and become any part of a collective group think.

Two questions:

While I have no problem with your faith and what you choose to believe, why do you (and others) take issue with mine?

Just curious, what parts of the Presbyterian church did you not like?

Thanks

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I would agree with the previous poster, most war has been the result of power, greed, racism, not religion.

Now those Christians who used violence in their faith have violated the faith and are not really faithfully doing their part. So they would be acting as rejectors of their faith, just trying to subjugate others, denying God and promoting their own desires. So I would argue that most of those promoters of violence were functional atheists.

Charlemagne, a functional atheist ? He’s beatified, so he could hardly be an atheist, even functionally.​

The trouble with the explanation is, that though it respects Christian ethics, it is impossible to reconcile with past ideas of what counted as Christian or Saintly behaviour Making war in the name of Christ, or converting pagans by force (as Charlemagne did), may be repugnant to us - but it was not always so. It’s a safe bet that some Saints in the calendars would never be beatified or canonised now…

Religion is just another excuse for war - & it’s been a very good one. IMHO, people fight because human nature is bad, & religion (not just Christianity) lends itself to being a cloak for human wickedness. People are not going to advertise how vicious they are - they conceal their viciousness instead, by pretending to be zealous for whatever God their culture serves. ISTM that often it is hypocrisy, not religion, that is the problem. (If the Israelis were religious, & followed the Torah, the Palestinians would have nothing to complain of.)

When a culture does not distinguish between religion & culture, because the religion is indissolubly connected with the culture, so as to be the culture under another aspect - what then ? Are that culture’s wars religious ?

There are many who do not believe in God who profess themselves to be of one religion or another.

Now if your religion comes from God and is true, you would see that all others are man made and a waste of time. Since I care about others I would try and convince them they are wasting their time and insulting God.

Another religion could still be from God…​

This is why I talk with Protestant pastors, I am still seeking one who has a coherent belief system that is honest. After talking with dozens I am starting to lose hope.

If there are multiple belief systems some must be better than others and if one is true everyone should submit to it.

Does either of those follow, though ? I think both of those points are questionable.​

Now if none are true, then it is all a waste of time, since then God cannot communicate truth and it doesn’t matter.

Or: He does communicate, but in a way or ways not allowed for by those alternatives ​

Since I believe in God, I am Catholic.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[DelScorcho]

Do you honestly think we’re a bunch of simpletons who have never asked questions or studied our faith and its history? Do you honestly think that once we have learned the truth of the faith and have submitted then our obedience to the Church that we are blind followers?

I know one person does not represent an entire religion but the following exchange seems to point me in that direction:

DelScorcho: Prove it to me that my vasectomy is a sin or should I just take your church’s word for it?

jam070406:Yes, for the benefit of your soul, you should believe what The Church teaches. That’s what we’re trying to get through to you.

 

[DelScorcho]

Off-topic…but, there are communities that are doing trick-or-treating today? It still almost a week away from Halloween!

Sorry… just go to this.

Yeah my community ALWAYS trick or treats on the Sunday before… during the day!

Next year will be fun when it occurs almost an entire week before, since Halloween will be on a Saturday.

 

[jimmy]

Obviously you are one of the people that believe their religion is the “one true religion” and all others are wrong. It’s interesting that others feel the same way about their religions.

I don’t believe that there is one true religion and I don’t believe that anyone can prove their religion to be the “correct one”.

Do you believe in tolerating other religions?

I would like to make a couple points.

If we believe there is a true faith then we ought to follow that faith. We as Catholic Christians believe that there is an absolute truth(God) which has been revealed to the Church by God. We can not simply avoid that and say that all people have an equal amount of truth and consequently all faiths are equal. That form of relativism is contradictory to what we believe and we can not profess it.

That said, yes, we as Christians believe in tollerance. If someone does not want to accept the faith then there is nothing I can do about it. I must let them go their way. But that does not mean that we should say that their faith is equal to ours.

 

[DelScorcho]

I would like to make a couple points.

If we believe there is a true faith then we ought to follow that faith. We as Catholic Christians believe that there is an absolute truth(God) which has been revealed to the Church by God. We can not simply avoid that and say that all people have an equal amount of truth and consequently all faiths are equal. That form of relativism is contradictory to what we believe and we can not profess it.

That said, yes, we as Christians believe in tollerance. If someone does not want to accept the faith then there is nothing I can do about it. I must let them go their way. But that does not mean that we should say that their faith is equal to ours.

I totally respect that. And that is the kind of exchange I was looking for on this thread.

THANKS!

 

[jam070406]

I know one person does not represent an entire religion but the following exchange seems to point me in that direction:

DelScorcho: Prove it to me that my vasectomy is a sin or should I just take your church’s word for it?

jam070406:Yes, for the benefit of your soul, you should believe what The Church teaches. That’s what we’re trying to get through to you.

It’s not MY Church. It’s Christ’s Church. And Christ’s Church says a vasectomy is a sin. What more can I say? I don’t represent the Church, I’m telling you what the Church teaches. It’s for a good reason they teach this, because it has a bearing on your soul.

 

[crdene]

YOU ARE CORRECT THERE ARE MULTIPLE RELIGIONS…please try to remember that Jesus did not want us to fight about our religion…when people try to anger me about me being Catholic…I feel no anger because the holy spirt has touch my heart because I feel no anger to them…what I say to them I’m born Catholic and I will die Catholic. They have every right to speak what they feel…I only listen but I will not change who I am and what religion I am, but I will listen to them.

Don’t forget about God…he is love.

I’ve been reading this forum and there seems to be a lot of hostility between Catholics and Protestants… Why is this?

There are multiple religions for a reason: not all people believe the same things. And religion seems to be anad have been the crux of most conflicts in the world… the “my religion is the better religion and you need to agree with me” argument.

So what if someone doesn’t worship the same way you do, why not just tolerate each other instead of trying to convert or condemn each other?

Isn’t that what Christianity teaches at a high level?

 

[DelScorcho]

It’s not MY Church. It’s Christ’s Church. And Christ’s Church says a vasectomy is a sin. What more can I say? I don’t represent the Church, I’m telling you what the Church teaches. It’s for a good reason they teach this, because it has a bearing on your soul.

Which Pope decided it was a sin?