My Sister is Mormon....

[mfbukowski]

I am a Candidate (Catechumens are folks who also need baptism) and both I and my daughter the Catechumen are perfectly welcome to remain in church for the entire Mass.

Did you read the post? Even in the part you quoted it says

(I know anyone can attend a full mass- I am talking ceremony here)

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Technically a swastika is a cross of a certain type. Look it up

Technically, the BoM is a book of a certain type. But it is NOT a Christian book accepted by ANY sect outside mormonism.

Nor is it a fulfillment of the Gospel of Jesus (Jesus wrote a Gospel??) since this claim would deny the foundation upon which mormonism exists.

Look it up.

Robert

 

[mfbukowski]

I have had first hand accounts from people who were there. So you can call multiple liars if you like. The fact remains, people stripped naked and wore nothing but a “shield”, open at the sides, and the anointing included another person touching breast, bowel, legs, etc.

Today, the person is fully dressed and only the forehead is touched.

So whatever bukowski, you may have become desensitized, but it isn’t NORMAL.

Private areas are never touched. If what you are saying is true, we would have a worse sex abuse scandal than you do. We don’t.

 

[majick275]

First of all, I was proposing none of these things
Secondly, we can always find out for ourselves if our leaders are correct, and
Third, if we disagree we are free to leave the church.

This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand which were the Sethian Mysteries which have nothing to do with what you posted. Very red and very stinky herring.

what are you talking about? i was primarily responding to Diana but okay…yes you can “leave the church” but that’s not exactly easy to do is it? there is a rather cumbersome and formal process required for that. of course if you believe your leaders incorrect you are in apostasy so it might get easy real quick.

Sethian mysteries are a theory only and certainly not endorsed by the LDs leadership. now THAT would be your red herring.

 

[mfbukowski]

You probably didn’t understand it because it was taken from Scripture.

Throughout the Mass are quotations and prayers from the OT and the NT.

Of course, if we quoted Nephi or Moses or some other mormon book, you would have noticed and had an epiphanic moment about your belief system.

Maybe the Presbytarians or United Methodists use the BoM?

Oh no, it’s the Catholic Lectionary from Vatican II that they use.

Dang Christians!

Robert

Huh? Reading from the Book of Mormon at mass? Stick to playing basketball in the stake center.

By the way, I am sure I read the bible more than you do. Of course I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. I read it daily.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Private areas are never touched. If what you are saying is true, we would have a worse sex abuse scandal than you do. We don’t.

The sex scandals in mormonism involve mormon “revelation.”

Look to Texas and Arizona and Colorado and all the “fruit” of mormon “plural marriage.”

Toe-MAY-toe, toe-MAH-toe, poe-TAY-toe, poe-TAH-toe \

Robert

 

[mfbukowski]

As for the cross, it is a sign of the standard of God’s promise to all mankind.
Isa 49:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
Isa 62:10 Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.

There are other interpretations for this scripture. It says “cross” no where. A “standard” could be anything including the star of David I guess, or the standards the Israelites carried in the wilderness, or the standard raised by Moses to cure the bites of the firey serpents. Suppose we have a brazen serpent as a standard – have a problem with that?

You of course are free to have your opinion, and I to have mine.

 

[Stephen168]

This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand which were the Sethian Mysteries which have nothing to do with what you posted. Very red and very stinky herring.

Actually you were going to tell us how the Chi Rho, the anchor, the fish, and star of David were like Mormon symbols, Sethian Mysteries, how there were revealed by Adam. I’ve been waiting!

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

By the way, I am sure I read the bible more than you do. Of course I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. I read it daily.

A serious question:

As an avid and daily reader of the Bible, how do you reconcile your church’s teachings on celestial marriage and the words of Jesus that there will be NO marriage in Heaven?

Robert

 

[look3467]

There are other interpretations for this scripture. It says “cross” no where. A “standard” could be anything including the star of David I guess, or the standards the Israelites carried in the wilderness, or the standard raised by Moses to cure the bites of the firey serpents. Suppose we have a brazen serpent as a standard – have a problem with that?

You of course are free to have your opinion, and I to have mine.

You are correct, but in the case for humanity, the standard for salvation of all mankind is Jesus at the cross.

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

Looking at Jesus, as He was lifted up, that He not the cross became the standard for all our salvation.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mfbukowski]

yet we don’t claim to be “oracles of the lord” speaking as if it were God himself. bit of a difference there.

And what is papal infallibility? No difference whatsoever.

If anyone disagrees, they are free to leave. God’s kingdom is not a democracy. Yet I know you are not used to this idea.

Regarding changes to Limbo:

But the document goes beyond strictly theological opinions. It repeatedly refers to the “sensus fidelium” – the sense of the faithful – to illustrate how Christians increasingly reject the idea that the vision of God would be denied to innocent babies.

One reason the Second Vatican Council rejected attempts to strengthen teaching against the salvation of unbaptized infants was that bishops felt it was “not the faith of their people,” the document said.

It referred to an important teaching of Vatican II, which said that the whole body of the faithful shares in Christ’s prophetic office and “cannot err in matters of belief.”

To support its conclusions on limbo, the theological commission’s document also cited the need for the church to read the “signs of the times” in order to better understand the Gospel.

In unusual detail, it listed several such signs that support the idea of hope for the salvation of unbaptized infants: the warfare and turmoil of the international scene and the church’s awareness of its mission as a bearer of hope; greater emphasis on God’s love and mercy in a world of suffering people; renewed concern for the welfare of infants in societies that are scandalized by the suffering of children; and increased dialogue with people of other faiths, which encourages the church to have greater appreciation for the “manifold and mysterious ways of God.”

Perhaps the clearest instance of the commission’s ranging outside traditional theological boundaries was when it cited in a footnote the Live Aid and Live 8 charity rock concerts of 1985 and 2005 as examples of global concern for children.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0702310.htm
We can receive our own revelations of the truth of what the prophet counsels, and if we disagree, we are free to leave. Just ask those here who have left. If you don’t believe in a church, why would anyone in their right mind stay?

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

A serious question:

As an avid and daily reader of the Bible, how do you reconcile your church’s teachings on celestial marriage and the words of Jesus that there will be NO marriage in Heaven?

Robert

 

[mfbukowski]

what are you talking about? i was primarily responding to Diana but okay…yes you can “leave the church” but that’s not exactly easy to do is it? there is a rather cumbersome and formal process required for that. of course if you believe your leaders incorrect you are in apostasy so it might get easy real quick.

Sethian mysteries are a theory only and certainly not endorsed by the LDs leadership. now THAT would be your red herring.

Yes it’s very cumbersome. You write a letter to your bishop and sign it. Done. You get a letter back in the mail that says something to the effect of: “We have received a resignation letter from you. You have 30 days to respond, if you don’t respond in 30 days, you name will be removed from the church’s records”.

Wow that’s tough all right. Writing a letter is a major trial.

“A theory only” ?? No, it is not a “theory” at all. They are religious statements of belief. So are all religions. The question is do they have relevance to anything today or not.

 

[mfbukowski]

Actually you were going to tell us how the Chi Rho, the anchor, the fish, and star of David were like Mormon symbols, Sethian Mysteries, how there were revealed by Adam. I’ve been waiting!

I never said that I would reveal anything, just that they are related. Figure it out for yourself if you can. You might learn something.

 

[mfbukowski]

A serious question:

As an avid and daily reader of the Bible, how do you reconcile your church’s teachings on celestial marriage and the words of Jesus that there will be NO marriage in Heaven?

Robert

No conflict. There is no “giving in marriage” in heaven. That is why it must be done as an earthly ordinance.

So this distinguishes this post from your others because the others were not serious?

 

[Stephen168]

I never said that I would reveal anything, just that they are related. Figure it out for yourself if you can. You might learn something.

That’s what I thought.

 

[mfbukowski]

You are correct, but in the case for humanity, the standard for salvation of all mankind is Jesus at the cross.

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

Looking at Jesus, as He was lifted up, that He not the cross became the standard for all our salvation.

Peace>>>AJ

"You are correct, but in the case for humanity, the standard for salvation of all mankind is Jesus at the cross."

That’s your opinion, and you are welcome to it.

The brazen serpent was a symbol for Jesus. Why don’ t we use a brazen serpent for the standard?

 

[mfbukowski]

You know you guys, I really feel my charitablity starting to slip- Maybe it’s time to take a break…

 

[dianaiad]

There you go again: avoiding direct questions.

I have played basketball in mormon “gyms.” Our parish teams quit the ecumenical attempt at understanding when the mormons of Riverside, California, refused to have non-mormon referees on the court during games. After two games of non-calls, it was apparent that this was revenge for Notre Dame kicking BYU’s butt on the gridiron.

Gee, I haven’t seen such traveling since my active duty days in the Army!

Robert

“Mormon 'gyms?”

We don’t have ‘gyms.’ These areas, which we call ‘cultural halls’ are not separate areas. We have them arranged so that they can be used for basket ball, and there is usually a stage at one end, while the other end is separated from the chapel by folding doors, so that they can be used for extra seating during conferences and performances.

As to your speculation regarding the game you attended, I hope you don’t mind if I put a great deal of it down to, well…not winning the game?

 

[dianaiad]

what are you talking about? i was primarily responding to Diana but okay…yes you can “leave the church” but that’s not exactly easy to do is it? there is a rather cumbersome and formal process required for that. of course if you believe your leaders incorrect you are in apostasy so it might get easy real quick.

Sethian mysteries are a theory only and certainly not endorsed by the LDs leadership. now THAT would be your red herring.

What’s cumbersome about writing a letter?

Or…simply not bothering and joining something else?