My Sister is Mormon....

[dianaiad]

No, no–no belittling or criticism meant at all. I was just stating what I thought was obvious. No harm intended at all.

I owe you an apology in return: I wasn’t trying to accuse you of belittling or criticizing; I was using the ‘general,’ not the specific, “you.”

However, now that I reread it, I can see that I should have ‘not tried’ a lot harder. I’m sorry.

 

[dianaiad]

Someone recorded the entire ceremony, audio only. As in, snuck an audio recording device into a temple. It is on youtube.

Is it, now?

What do you think of someone who would actually do that?

 

[dianaiad]

No, we believe Christ when he said we are neither married or given in marriage in heaven.

What I meant was, you said our marriage ceremony means “nothing” or nothing more “until death do you part”.

It means more to us than that.

I said that it means ‘nothing in terms of heaven.’ Which was referring to the quote you just gave me. You have to admit, the question you asked me would not have been asked of a widowed and remarried Catholic, would it?

Marriage is sacred. I don’t suppose that it is any less sacred to a Catholic than it is to a Mormon: it’s marriage. Our Temple marriages last longer. Divorces are not an option for Catholics, if they wish to remain communicants (I think I’m right about that…please correct me). Does either group think more of marriage than the other?

 

[dianaiad]

dianaballein OP

Just curious about a couple things:

Why is your daughter preparing to get baptized? Catholics use infant baptism.

Just a guess, but since we Mormons don’t recognize anybody else’s baptism (it’s the priesthood authority thing; we think it’s required, nobody else seems to think so) nobody else will recognize ours. It’s a ‘tit for tat’ thing, I think. So any Mormon going to another sect would have to be baptized. I don’t know if Catholics recognize the baptisms performed by anybody else.

dianaballein OPIf you have a friend who converted from LDS to Catholic, and told you of the temple ceremony, then why didn’t you just ask her why we do not have the cross on or in our meetinghouses and temples, instead of asking here?

What makes you think that a woman who thought that it was acceptable to break those promises the way her friend did could give accurate information? She might not intend to be inaccurate, but how could she not be, given everything? I wouldn’t ask an ex-Catholic about anything to do with Catholic beliefs, either.

For the same reasons.

 

[dianaiad]

To the OP…I think it should be clarified that not all Mormons reject the wearing of a cross. I have met a few who do wear a cross, all were converts to Mormonism from Christianity, or a gift given to them by a Christian.

It is not a Mormon doctrine to reject the usage of the cross as a symbol of their belief. It is more of a tradition.

A very strong one, yes.

However, you are right about this: you won’t get excommunicated for wearing one. You might get looked at funny, though. As I said before, symbols mean what the user thinks they mean. So, if a convert is comfortable with a cross, no problem.

The rest of us might wonder at it because of our view of that symbol, but, again…that’s our problem, not that of the convert.

Isn’t there a scripture that pertains to this? I keep attempting to remember it, and my brain is fried. Something about not tempting new converts to do something they think is sinful, even though you know it isn’t?

It’s too late in the evening. I"m toast.

 

[Stephen168]

I believe that the link posted to the article written by President Hinckley gave the best, most courteous and comprehensive answer. To give another one, perhaps it would be best to paraphrase Bill HIcks when he said “A lot of Christians wear corsses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a…cross? It’s like going up to Jackie Onassiss wearing a rifle pendant.”

Now Bill Hicks is not the only person to notice this, and he was certainly more strident in his approach than most, but the basic idea? Well, there it is, part of the reason we do not use, or wear, crosses.

Thank you, for the answer. Not only was it direct but it fits my understanding of a Mormon paradigm.

 

[dianaiad]

Y’know, I’ve been a Mormon all my life. I was a missionary. I have heard this claim before, and I honestly, truly, do not understand it.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Is it, now?

What do you think of someone who would actually do that?

I have no investment in it one way or the other. But I understand how Mormons feel about it, that is why I didn’t bother to find and post a link.

Frankly, I listened to about 5 minutes and was bored out of my mind. Sort of let down really, for how much Mormons build it up.

 

[RebeccaJ]

A very strong one, yes.

However, you are right about this: you won’t get excommunicated for wearing one. You might get looked at funny, though. As I said before, symbols mean what the user thinks they mean. So, if a convert is comfortable with a cross, no problem.

The rest of us might wonder at it because of our view of that symbol, but, again…that’s our problem, not that of the convert.

Isn’t there a scripture that pertains to this? I keep attempting to remember it, and my brain is fried. Something about not tempting new converts to do something they think is sinful, even though you know it isn’t?

It’s too late in the evening. I"m toast.

Well, yours is the “old school”, and probably most predominant view in Utah at least. It is also what I was raised to believe…that the cross is nearly downright evil. The first time a Mormon told me they wear a cross, I thought they were making it up.

I live in UT, my daughter wears crosses for the explicit purpose of warding off Mormons. (She is agnostic.)

 

[twosweetgirls]

Is it, now?

What do you think of someone who would actually do that?

I would think it’s totally not cool.

And you raise a good point about not divulging things that are sacred to others who don’t believe the same way. Take my having been in a sorority, for example (though in no way equating a mere social sorority to your church at all). Though I’m not a part of it in any way anymore, I’d still not divulge the secrets, badge meanings, dialogue and meanings of symbols out of respect for the sorority. A lame correlation, but hope that makes sense.

 

[dianaballein]

dianaballein OP

Just curious about a couple things:

Why is your daughter preparing to get baptized? Catholics use infant baptism.

If you have a friend who converted from LDS to Catholic, and told you of the temple ceremony, then why didn’t you just ask her why we do not have the cross on or in our meetinghouses and temples, instead of asking here?

My daughter and I are both converting. She was never baptized.

I have not seen my friend in about 13 years and I wasn’t curious until now, when my daughter stirred the pot of questioning. I supposed it never really mattered before, for one, because I am limited use for religion until I started down the road to becoming a Catholic after finally feeling as if I was in the right place.

 

[dianaballein]

To the OP…I think it should be clarified that not all Mormons reject the wearing of a cross. I have met a few who do wear a cross, all were converts to Mormonism from Christianity, or a gift given to them by a Christian.

It is not a Mormon doctrine to reject the usage of the cross as a symbol of their belief. It is more of a tradition.

Thank you Rebecca. My original post was merely about the lack of them in church buildings.

 

[dianaballein]

I said that it means ‘nothing in terms of heaven.’ Which was referring to the quote you just gave me. You have to admit, the question you asked me would not have been asked of a widowed and remarried Catholic, would it?

Marriage is sacred. I don’t suppose that it is any less sacred to a Catholic than it is to a Mormon: it’s marriage. Our Temple marriages last longer. Divorces are not an option for Catholics, if they wish to remain communicants (I think I’m right about that…please correct me). Does either group think more of marriage than the other?

Mormons get divorced.

There is only one Sacramental marriage recognized. If for some reason a marriage fails (and the Church does not expect us to stay in marriages under certain conditions), an annulment restores both parties so that they may marry again. That is my understanding. Catholic posters, if I am wrong, please correct me.

It is my belief as well that you can love and be with a second spouse should a first spouse die. That once you die, ALL those family that you loved will reunite with you in heaven. There is no EGO in heaven to preclude 1st and 2nd spouses from being there together. The first marriage was valid and there was love and committment, and the person perished. They did not leave of their own volition. This does not lessen the commitment of the remarriage in my eyes. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that my sister and her husband both loved their spouses dearly and they were taken…and now they love each other dearly as well but are told “too bad so sad”? God is good, and loving and merciful.

 

[dianaballein]

I would think it’s totally not cool.

And you raise a good point about not divulging things that are sacred to others who don’t believe the same way. Take my having been in a sorority, for example (though in no way equating a mere social sorority to your church at all). Though I’m not a part of it in any way anymore, I’d still not divulge the secrets, badge meanings, dialogue and meanings of symbols out of respect for the sorority. A lame correlation, but hope that makes sense.

People who feel they have “seen the light” and convert to Christianity, I suppose, feel a duty to educate others about why they left.

 

[dianaballein]

Just a guess, but since we Mormons don’t recognize anybody else’s baptism (it’s the priesthood authority thing; we think it’s required, nobody else seems to think so) nobody else will recognize ours. It’s a ‘tit for tat’ thing, I think. So any Mormon going to another sect would have to be baptized. I don’t know if Catholics recognize the baptisms performed by anybody else.

No, this is not the case, and please don’t attempt to speak for me. lol

What makes you think that a woman who thought that it was acceptable to break those promises the way her friend did could give accurate information? She might not intend to be inaccurate, but how could she not be, given everything? I wouldn’t ask an ex-Catholic about anything to do with Catholic beliefs, either.

For the same reasons.

…and it was a man, not a woman. It was accurate, and I didn’t ask. He stood in front of an entire church and shared his story. Brave.

 

[dianaiad]

I have no investment in it one way or the other. But I understand how Mormons feel about it, that is why I didn’t bother to find and post a link.

Frankly, I listened to about 5 minutes and was bored out of my mind. Sort of let down really, for how much Mormons build it up.

Well, it’s one of those things where you actually have to BE there.

 

[dianaballein]

Well, it’s one of those things where you actually have to BE there.

We are not allowed to set foot in the Temple. We are not Mormon.

I would never refuse a Mormon entrance into a Catholic Church.

 

[dianaiad]

Well, yours is the “old school”, and probably most predominant view in Utah at least. It is also what I was raised to believe…that the cross is nearly downright evil. The first time a Mormon told me they wear a cross, I thought they were making it up.

I live in UT, my daughter wears crosses for the explicit purpose of warding off Mormons. (She is agnostic.)

Nice.

In fact, the very first experience I ever had with anti-Mormon sentiment was when I was fourteen. My family had just moved to California from Utah, and I, naive and protected teenager that I was, invited a new friend to a church dance. She was all excited, until she found out that it was a MORMON church dance.

She held up her cross against me, backed up a few steps, turned around and ran across the athletic field to get away from me.

That was very odd, I thought…but I had no idea that it was just the beginning…

 

[dianaiad]

I would think it’s totally not cool.

And you raise a good point about not divulging things that are sacred to others who don’t believe the same way. Take my having been in a sorority, for example (though in no way equating a mere social sorority to your church at all). Though I’m not a part of it in any way anymore, I’d still not divulge the secrets, badge meanings, dialogue and meanings of symbols out of respect for the sorority. A lame correlation, but hope that makes sense.

No, it makes perfect sense. Promises are promises; meant to be kept for the sake of the promise as long as someone isn’t going to be hurt by KEEPING it.

 

[dianaiad]

Mormons get divorced.

Yes. I know. That’s why I wrote 'Temple marriages last longer, Catholics don’t get divorced" (or something like that; I don’t have the quote in front of me). The point is, we both do something different about respecting marriage; we both respect it.

There is only one Sacramental marriage recognized. If for some reason a marriage fails (and the Church does not expect us to stay in marriages under certain conditions), an annulment restores both parties so that they may marry again. That is my understanding. Catholic posters, if I am wrong, please correct me.

It is my belief as well that you can love and be with a second spouse should a first spouse die. That once you die, ALL those family that you loved will reunite with you in heaven.

But not as married couples; not as families.

There is no EGO in heaven to preclude 1st and 2nd spouses from being there together.

Where did that come from?

The first marriage was valid and there was love and committment, and the person perished. They did not leave of their own volition. This does not lessen the commitment of the remarriage in my eyes.

Nor in mine, nor in that of the church. The difference is in the time limit. The second marriage for us is EXACTLY like all marriages are for you, and equally respected.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that my sister and her husband both loved their spouses dearly and they were taken…and now they love each other dearly as well but are told “too bad so sad”? God is good, and loving and merciful.

Yes He is…and it will all get ironed out in the eternities. My problem is that, even though your ceremonies quite clearly state that death parts you, you seem to have this idea that it won’t. Either it’s until death–in which case wishful thinking doesn’t make them still married, or it’s for longer, in which case somebody needs to change the lines in the wedding ceremony; someone with the authority to make it stick.

(shrug) But that’s just from my POV. Your sister and her new hubby have the same sort of marriage that any Catholic or Protestant has; they don’t need pity over it; it’s good.