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maryjk
Guest
Just be prepared to lose your son over the issue. Because you have no say in who your son marries and who is your daughter in law.
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PTL
Guest
That is not necessarily true. Just look at so many liberal Catholics (60%) who voted for Obama. Obama promotes abortion world wide and he claims he is a Christian. And those “Catholics” voted for him may say they are pro life but they used their vote to prove otherwise.
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shainski
Guest
You have much more ability to win someone over to your side of an issue if you remain in his/her life.
For not just this issue, I find that it is far more important than winning any particular argument.
I suspect as others have said - that even if she identifies as pro-choice (which you don’t even know), she would not seek that path herself. So she may be theoretically pro-choice - before she has seen or felt the wonders of a child. She is one of nine children - I would say that she may very well be more open to life than many Catholics.
I would try to get to know her in a much more profound way before you decide how you might change an opinion that you don’t even know she holds.
For not just this issue, I find that it is far more important than winning any particular argument.
I suspect as others have said - that even if she identifies as pro-choice (which you don’t even know), she would not seek that path herself. So she may be theoretically pro-choice - before she has seen or felt the wonders of a child. She is one of nine children - I would say that she may very well be more open to life than many Catholics.
I would try to get to know her in a much more profound way before you decide how you might change an opinion that you don’t even know she holds.
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bluehen95
Guest
I’m trying to understand the issue here. If she is pro-choice in theory, but wouldn’t have an abortion and isn’t out rallying for “her cause” - i.e., it’s a personal belief and that’s it - is that still too much for you? If she IS pro-life, does she need to be attending protests and being vocal about it to make you happy? This may the most important issue in the world to you, but that’s the problem with being driven by a single issue. For other people it’s farther down the priority list, perhaps behind feeding starving children or putting a roof over poor people’s heads. Before you go dying on any hill, put things in context. Find out what is important to her, because that explains her value set - not an opinion on a single (yes, important) issue that may or may not be at the top of her list.
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CatholicRaven
Guest
Sometimes we have to get off the horse in order to realize we’re on the wrong hill. 
You might have the best debating skills in all the world, you might “win” the debate… and still lose the battle for their souls. Logic does not win hearts, my friend.
Remember that she is NOT one of your children, even if she becomes your daughter-in-law. She is a woman, and she is your son’s girlfriend (potentially his future wife and mother of your grandchildren), not one of your buddies. Treat her with the respect she deserves–don’t go looking to overstep the boundaries of your authority and try to “rescue” her from wrong ideas or rule over her. Even if that is what she needs, she is not yours to rescue or rule. Trust your son. You did your job in raising him and training him to be a good soldier, now let him do his job.
You might have the best debating skills in all the world, you might “win” the debate… and still lose the battle for their souls. Logic does not win hearts, my friend.
Remember that she is NOT one of your children, even if she becomes your daughter-in-law. She is a woman, and she is your son’s girlfriend (potentially his future wife and mother of your grandchildren), not one of your buddies. Treat her with the respect she deserves–don’t go looking to overstep the boundaries of your authority and try to “rescue” her from wrong ideas or rule over her. Even if that is what she needs, she is not yours to rescue or rule. Trust your son. You did your job in raising him and training him to be a good soldier, now let him do his job.
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takers
Guest
You bring up an excellent point. There are many young men and women that would consider themselves pro-choice until they start a family. Then suddenly the reality of “it really is a baby” hits and their mentality changes. So just because the girlfriend might lean pro-choice today she may not five years down the road.
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Winters
Guest
Thanks for the advices. I think I still end up where I originally projected - at least if one assumes that my son and his GF will ask me for my blessing. In the discussion here, there seems to have emerged a distinction between being “pro-life” and standing up for “the right to life”.
My life experiences, prayer, scripture, and church teachings have led me to be closest to the latter and I believe it is best in the long run to confront issues openly, honestly, with kindness, and before they fester. Likewise, the young lady is direct but polite.
The relationship was up until very recently a long distance relationship and so is less developed than most 2 year relationships. I cannot assume it is sexual - especially since I emphasized to my son when he was younger the value of saving oneself for their spouse.
Thank you for continuing this discussion.
My life experiences, prayer, scripture, and church teachings have led me to be closest to the latter and I believe it is best in the long run to confront issues openly, honestly, with kindness, and before they fester. Likewise, the young lady is direct but polite.
The relationship was up until very recently a long distance relationship and so is less developed than most 2 year relationships. I cannot assume it is sexual - especially since I emphasized to my son when he was younger the value of saving oneself for their spouse.
Thank you for continuing this discussion.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
If he’s 25, not practicing any religion, and they’ve been together for 2 years you should not only assume that it’s sexual, but you could bet a lot of money on it.
Frankly, you sound naive to think that they are not having sex and that he will let you reject his choice of spouse.
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bluehen95
Guest
Not to steal a thread, but I could not let this go. Those “Catholics” who voted for him made tradeoffs because they placed a higher priority on something else, or a combination of something elses, in his platform. They did not “prove otherwise” anything. Unfortunately politics, just like life, is a game of tradeoffs. You simply cannot be a single issue voter and claim to be a “true Catholic”, because at the same time you’re also screwing the poor, for example. All these voters proved is that right to life, if asked to prioritize, is lower down the list of things they value, like providing for those already living.
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maryjk
Guest
No kidding.
Yes, he may ask your blessing, but if you don’t give it? Do you really think he will drop her?
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Winters
Guest
“you sound naive to think that they are not having sex and that he will let you reject his choice of spouse”
“I cannot assume it is sexual” means that the polite approach would be to enter the discussion without an assumption on the matter - some people would be offended otherwise. Believe it or not, such individuals do exist.
Nor do I seek to reject his choice - I seek to speak the truth and offer my insights should both or either of them seek it.
Thank you for the continued discussion, really.
“I cannot assume it is sexual” means that the polite approach would be to enter the discussion without an assumption on the matter - some people would be offended otherwise. Believe it or not, such individuals do exist.
Nor do I seek to reject his choice - I seek to speak the truth and offer my insights should both or either of them seek it.
Thank you for the continued discussion, really.
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rayne89
Guest
Why don’t you just ask your son if his gf is pro-life? I’m sure if he’s clearly pro-life and they have known each other for two years it has come up by now. Bypassing him and going directly to her seems disrespectful to your son as an adult man.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
No you don’t. You plan to confront her about her personal and political views. That isn’t making yourself available if they want to talk. Her views on abortion are none of your business, and this plan of yours may very well hurt your relationship with your son and future grandkids.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
To what end though? If she isn’t what can he do?
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Winters
Guest
I do appreciate the discussion. I have no plan but I do have convictions and responsibilities. Again, assuming I am asked for a marital blessing, I have an obligation to be forthright - you know very little about me yet you seem to mistrust my judgement and intentions and sensibilities greatly.
We recently had dinner with a recent Univ of Calif grad (male) who has always had a special relationship with us. His parents are quite conservative but not very talkative. He veered the conversation into the political and the religious and all those subjects you are not supposed to talk about. Given his background, what he had to say was very provocative and when it veered to life issues - definitely not very pro-life.
Where did he load his gun? I have to assume (really I know) from the culture and classes of a modern American University. The evening was very eventful.
Since that time he has contacted me twice saying what a great time he had and how terrific our conversation was. Yet I opposed almost everything he said and did so with examples and reason.
Our young people are not getting a balanced story either from (most of) our universities nor the press nor the culture. Oh how I wish someone had done the same for me but I suppose it was not their business.
Won’t you wish me luck, sensitivity, and God’s speed?
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Winters
Guest
you make a good point about asking my son. My frame of mind is focused on past discussions she and I have had wherein she initiated the conversation, it was just the 2 of us, and it was of a serious nature (regarding how kids should be raised) - I wasn’t ready and I am thinking that I should be more ready next time which will be this weekend. She may get to me before I get to my son!!
These situations are hard to convey but I hope you get a general idea of what transpired.
Thanks.
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rayne89
Guest
If my daughter was dating a guy I would want to know. My daughter is so, so pro-life (she spends time praying in front of abortion clinics, been to the March for Life in Washington etc) that it would be a total deal breaker for her anyway. What can he do? Not much. I think his only option is to direct his concerns (if she is not pro-life) to his son in a reasonable, loving way about what that could mean for future children, and how his son felt about their mother raising their children to see abortion as a legitimate option when faced with a crisis pregnancy.
I think directing the conversation at her when his son is 25 years old is disrespectful toward his son, and comes across as treating him like a child and meddling. If she brings up the conversation on her own I would recommend him stating his reasons for being pro-life in a calm, loving, compassionate way. I would strongly recommend** not **stating “I will never give my blessing for you to marry my son” or “I could never accept you as a daughter-in-law if you believe in abortion.” This would not be at all productive. Its a direct insult to the girlfriend, which would make her less open to listening to the pro-life position. And it has great potential to damage his relationship with his son. It comes across as him not trusting his son’s own pro-life beliefs to be able to handle his relationship with his girlfriend. He is an adult man, and he knows his girlfriend best. He is an adult now -his father’s role has to be different.
When I met my husband in high school he was “pro-choice”. Not staunchly but it seemed like to him the most reasonable (nice
) position was let a woman choose. I was not practicing my faith at the time but was 100% completely pro-life and I made that crystal clear from the get go. He accepted that. He, over the years adopted the pro-life position. He came into the Church 5 years after we were married and by then had fully come to understand the reasons why abortion is so wrong. But I did not get there by beating him over the head with it or telling him how horrible he was for believing it was ok to murder unborn children. He had never fully explored what abortion was and the immorality behind it.
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Book_Worm
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The_Bucket
Guest
I know we’re getting off track… but I have to reply to that last statement. I agree with you Book Worm that we as a society have obligations to the poor. Christ commanded us to care for them. But it is perfectly acceptable to disagree about how best to help the poor.
If one believes that increased welfare spending is actually harmful to the poor, that’s an acceptable position. Same if one thinks increased welfare spending is a good thing. If one believes the poor are not worth our assistance, however, that is a grave evil.
We can disagree on how to help the poor in good faith. There’s no “wiggle room” when it comes to abortion and the right to life.
If one believes that increased welfare spending is actually harmful to the poor, that’s an acceptable position. Same if one thinks increased welfare spending is a good thing. If one believes the poor are not worth our assistance, however, that is a grave evil.
We can disagree on how to help the poor in good faith. There’s no “wiggle room” when it comes to abortion and the right to life.
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Book_Worm
Guest
My belief is that every vote for those who favor programs that hurt the poor is a validation of the idea that we have no responsibility to and for them. Jesus said, over and over and over again, that is not true.
As far as wiggle room and priorities go, when the bishops and the rest of the Catholic hierarchy stop shielding and protecting pedophile priests, I will take their stand on that a little more seriously.
As far as wiggle room and priorities go, when the bishops and the rest of the Catholic hierarchy stop shielding and protecting pedophile priests, I will take their stand on that a little more seriously.
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