My son's girlfriend

[estesbob]

Our 25 year old son has had his present girlfriend for almost 2 years so they are approaching “seriousness”. Our son was raised Catholic but does not practice. His girlfriend is 1 of 9 kids. Her mother is evangelical and her dad left the family just a few months ago when the youngest was 16.

Though my efforts to persuade my son to practice his Catholicism have failed, he is clearly pro-life (I made sure to teach him the evils of abortion and I believe he whole-heartedly endorses the right to life). My wife and I have not spent much time with this girlfriend but we detect a sway towards the left politically and I am trying to prepare for the case that she is pro-choice. I can’t say that she is but it is a possibility. Otherwise we like her and she us. She is smart, attractive, interesting, and sincere.

Eventually it will come up or I will bring it up before they are engaged. I have been in plenty of abortion discussions and debates and I believe I can handle myself very well - in terms of effectiveness and politeness. It is a hill I will die on and even refuse her as a potential daughter in-law.

How can I do otherwise? Should I do otherwise? Our grandchildren are at stake.

In my family we find it best not to discuss politics. I wouldn’t bring it up and I would accept her as a daughter-in-law with open arm regardless of her political views. If you cut her off or alienate her you will live to deeply regret it-especially after they have children

 

[SwizzleStick]

My belief is that every vote for those who favor programs that hurt the poor is a validation of the idea that we have no responsibility to and for them. Jesus said, over and over and over again, that is not true.

As far as wiggle room and priorities go, when the bishops and the rest of the Catholic hierarchy stop shielding and protecting pedophile priests, I will take their stand on that a little more seriously.

Please start your own thread and have your own discussion about your beliefs then and let the OP have her discussion. See forum rules.

DISCUSSION FORUMS

1. 
   *]Messages posted to threads should be on-topic. If you wish to discuss another topic, start a new thread.
   *]Do not pad your post count with chatty or off-topic messages.
   
   Blue excerpt from forum rules here:
   Forum Rules
   forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=2

 

[estesbob]

• 1

While I believe that life begins at conception, I do not believe it ends at birth and that, contrary to many Republucan views, we have obligations to our poor.

An obligation we can not fulfill by voting for someone who promises to take other peoples minty and do it for us.

 

[MJJean]

you make a good point about asking my son. My frame of mind is focused on past discussions she and I have had wherein she initiated the conversation, it was just the 2 of us, and it was of a serious nature (regarding how kids should be raised) - I wasn’t ready and I am thinking that I should be more ready next time which will be this weekend. She may get to me before I get to my son!!

These situations are hard to convey but I hope you get a general idea of what transpired.
Thanks.

I am a parent. I know that my job does not end when my kids are grown, it just changes. I can give advice, I can give an opinion, but I recognize that my advice and opinions can be rejected and can damage my relationship with my kids.

Of course you are free to discuss how you think kids should be raised, but you have to remember that any kids your son and future wife (whoever she is) have will be* their* kids, not yours. They will be making all of the decisions about how to raise* their* children. If your future DIL and son have opposing views, and they will on at least a few subjects, they will decide how to present those views to their kids.

My father did not approve of my husband. He kindly expressed his concern and opinion. He did not give me his blessing when I told him I was marrying my DH. I married him anyways and now we go to a lot fewer family functions than we should/could because of that. We’ve been married 10 years and I couldn’t be happier! My dad occasionally disapproves of how I raise my kids. He doesn’t like the disciplinary methods we use, doesn’t like the freedoms we grant the kids or the ways we curtail freedom. So, I tell my dad a lot less than I used to because the bottom line is that I love and respect my dad, but I am an adult and these are my kids and that’s the end of it.

My MIL and FIL were not happy when my husband told them we were getting married. They had hoped for someone with more education, a career, and from “the right side of the tracks” for their son. His family is educated, own businesses or have high powered careers, and came from a much better area. Not to mention that we disagree on some big issues politically.

One of the reasons my affection for them has grown over the years is that they had the grace to accept their sons choice, treat me with love and kindness, and never, ever, ever try to interfere in our marriage or how we raise our kids. Not even by giving an opinion about it. They expressed their opinion to him alone one time and never brought it up again to anyone.

Talk to the GF. Get to really know her. Appreciate her good qualities. Just don’t make the mistake of thinking that your place is to interfere in your grown son’s life when it comes to who he marries or how he raises his future kids.

 

[Xantippe]

If there were to be an unplanned pregnancy with this young couple (either premaritally or after marriage), what do you want to have said to them? I think that is the most critical question at this point. Their political opinions at this point are largely irrelevant. If they believe that you’re all talk and all theory with regard to the pro-life cause and that they will be unsupported and unloved, she might have an abortion (or more than one) without you being the wiser.

 

[Gullveig]

Not Catholic or even Christian, but here’s my take as someone who has been in the position of the undesirable non-Christian girlfriend before.

It would be very rude to pry into your son’s girlfriend’s opinions our of the blue. I agree with the other posters who say that you should talk to your son about it. If he doesn’t know, then you should just let him know that, in the event, however unlikely, that an unplanned pregnancy happens, you hope that they will feel comfortable talking to you and your wife about it so you can help them. And leave it at that. Being confrontational about it will more likely than not damage your relationship with both your son and potential future daughter-in-law. Her personal opinions are really none of your business if she chooses not to share them with you. And anyway, that’s probably a better conversation for your wife to have with her if you’re really bent on knowing. That’s just not a subject that some women are willing to discuss with a man they don’t know well. Not only will you be putting her on the spot, rather unfairly, it will probably really creep her out for her boyfriend’s father to be quizzing her on her reproductive mores.

As far as giving or receiving your blessing on a marriage, I think it’s helpful to remember that the marriage is not about you and whether you’re comfortable with it, it’s about your son and his future wife. My parents, for instance, would be most happy if I married someone who shared their political and religious beliefs, but they’ve always told me that the thing they care about most is that I find someone who will treat me with love and respect, even in the face of any ideological differences. Shouldn’t that be the important thing on which to base your “blessing”?

 

[SouthCatholic]

Please start your own thread and have your own discussion about your beliefs then and let the OP have her discussion. See forum rules.

DISCUSSION FORUMS

1. 
   *]Messages posted to threads should be on-topic. If you wish to discuss another topic, start a new thread.
   *]Do not pad your post count with chatty or off-topic messages.
   
   Blue excerpt from forum rules here:
   Forum Rules
   forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=2

1. 
   I would like to point out that “Book Worm” did not take the thread off-topic with his/her post. PTL did with his/her comment about Obama. Of, course, the thread nannies always ignore off-topic posts that expouse the Conservative/Republican point-of-view!

 

[PatriceA]

Our 25 year old son has had his present girlfriend for almost 2 years so they are approaching “seriousness”. Our son was raised Catholic but does not practice. His girlfriend is 1 of 9 kids. Her mother is evangelical and her dad left the family just a few months ago when the youngest was 16.

Though my efforts to persuade my son to practice his Catholicism have failed, he is clearly pro-life (I made sure to teach him the evils of abortion and I believe he whole-heartedly endorses the right to life). My wife and I have not spent much time with this girlfriend but we detect a sway towards the left politically and I am trying to prepare for the case that she is pro-choice. I can’t say that she is but it is a possibility. Otherwise we like her and she us. She is smart, attractive, interesting, and sincere.

Eventually it will come up or I will bring it up before they are engaged. I have been in plenty of abortion discussions and debates and I believe I can handle myself very well - in terms of effectiveness and politeness. It is a hill I will die on and even refuse her as a potential daughter in-law.

How can I do otherwise? Should I do otherwise? Our grandchildren are at stake.

This is what stands out to me the most in your OP. Like a previous poster said, you just might lose your son over this discussion OR any discussion for that matter. Its NOT just that she may be pro-life or pro-choice, its that you would seriously consider rejecting a future DIL when its not your place to undermine their marriage, if this relationship leads to a marriage. If this is really what you believe is your responsibility to your son, if I was the girlfriend, I’d rather know this is how you will approach me NOW, before I got anymore serious because I would be running the other way as fast as possible. And I’m pro-life. Its the power you think you have over any future marriage that is the biggest red flag to me.

 

[chevalier]

From a pro-life point of view, not only direct abortion matters but also the use of birth control methods that can result in an abortion if the contraceptive function fails. For this reason, I chose not to enter into romantic relationships with ladies who don’t reject birth control, at least the potentially abortifacient kind. I wouldn’t be able to be myself in a marriage threatened with such a risk.

 

[Cupofkindness]

Pardon me this is completely off topic:

Something that totally jumped out at me from your post was that this poor young woman is from a Christian Evangelical family of nine children whose** father just left them** a few months ago! Clearly this family is DEVASTATED beyond measure. Please do all you can to be loving and supportive of them. This family is being torn apart by separation and possible divorce how tragic and awful.

I hope and pray that she is pro-life, however if she is not, be assured that the influence of your son who loves and adores her will probably carry much more weight then a debate with you. If your son is staunchly pro-life then it would be hard to imagine him raising his future children in a pro-choice environment. I know this must be very hard for you, please be assured of my prayers.

Monicad is right, ask yourself how you can help this GF’s family is the best thing you can do. “Preach the gospel and when necessary, use words.” And one of nine children? Certainly her family is pro-life, so I would just assume that she is as well, unless she just graduated from NYU!

 

[PatriceA]

From a pro-life point of view, not only direct abortion matters but also the use of birth control methods that can result in an abortion if the contraceptive function fails. For this reason, I chose not to enter into romantic relationships with ladies who don’t reject birth control, at least the potentially abortifacient kind. I wouldn’t be able to be myself in a marriage threatened with such a risk.

And that’s something the son has to decide for himself, not the father making the decision for the son.

 

[mikecash]

I am 27 and engaged. (So, I hope my thoughts are helpful.) I’m planning to enter the Church this year after 12 years of practicing no real Christian faith despite my upbringing as a never miss a Sunday Methodist.

While I am proud to say I am now 100% prolife, I can honestly say that until about a year ago I was on the fence about abortion. Unfortunately, the generation your son and I are in has been fed many lies about “choice.” We are programed to think that those who are pro-life are nuts that have no sympathy for rape victims (yes, unfortunately, I am being 100% serious). I sometimes think it is hard for people who are firmly prolife to understand the amount of brainwashing most millennials have received on this subject!

If you make this an ultimatum issue, you will probably just drive a wedge between your potential future daughter-in-law and yourself. She will probably write you off, at best, or, at worst, you could be cut off from your grandchildren. The blessing of the parents is viewed as a technicality these days. If you deny your blessing, most in my generation would proceed regardless.

Honestly, listening to Catholic Answers changed my heart on this issue and brought me to the truth about this unspeakable evil. Instead of creating a wedge, show her to be Christian is to be pro-life! If your son’s girlfriend is pro-choice, bring her to the truth by using the power of Christ’s love!

Casually, at a time that feels natural, talk about your faith and why you believe in the sanctity of human life, but don’t solicit her views on the subject. The recent Catholic Answers show “Six Rules for Evangelizing Family and Friends” with Steve Ray was excellent on the subject of evangelization, and I think it is 100% applicable to this situation.

Remember, bringing people to God’s truth is our job as Christians! If I had turned on Catholic Answers for the first time and it was a complete Protestant bashfest, I certainly don’t think I’d be entering the Church today.

If God can bring me around, there is hope for everyone in my generation!

-Mike

 

[HouseArrest]

This is what stands out to me the most in your OP. Like a previous poster said, you just might lose your son over this discussion OR any discussion for that matter. Its NOT just that she may be pro-life or pro-choice, its that you would seriously consider rejecting a future DIL when its not your place to undermine their marriage, if this relationship leads to a marriage. If this is really what you believe is your responsibility to your son, if I was the girlfriend, I’d rather know this is how you will approach me NOW, before I got anymore serious because** I would be running the other way as fast as possible**. And I’m pro-life. Its the power you think you have over any future marriage that is the biggest red flag to me.

Well, that is what the OP seems to be going for.

 

[PatriceA]

Well, that is what the OP seems to be going for.

Then IF that is really what he wants to achieve, the girlfriend will be much better off not entering into a marriage where a parent thinks its their job to interfere.

And let’s not forget, the OP does not know for a fact that the girlfriend is pro-choice but has already assumed as much and is ready to act if necessary. Red flag, red flag, red flag.

 

[chevalier]

I am so grateful that my very catholic and extremely pro life in-laws have had the grace and tact to not try to drag me into a political debate, or even ask probing questions. They know that I’m a liberal, though I have never said it, and I know that they are conservative. Abortion has never come up. If they asked about my views I would be honest and tell them I am pro choice. If they tried to debate me I would politely refuse out of respect for them, myself, my husband, and the rest of the family who might feel tension. If they pressed my husband would take my side in a heartbeat, and would have done so even at the dating stage of our relationship.

Abortion is not politics, it’s morality.

And that’s something the son has to decide for himself, not the father making the decision for the son.

Where did I say the father should?

Then IF that is really what he wants to achieve, the girlfriend will be much better off not entering into a marriage where a parent thinks its their job to interfere.

You’re reading things that weren’t written. The OP is not forcing his decisions on his son, he’s forming his own opinions and making a decision on how he’s going to address the situation. The OP is entitled to have an opinion and communicating it. You’re taking tolerance and independence too far. We have our freedoms, but we don’t have a freedom from other people’s freedom of speech, for example (or any sort of freedom from opinion).

 

[Xantippe]

The OP has had a quarter century to parent his son. If the son wasn’t convinced the first 100 or so times the father shared his prolife views, the 101st iteration isn’t going to do the job. Furthermore, they’ve been dating two years. At this point, the son is probably far more emotionally attached to his girlfriend than he is to his parents. You really don’t want to ask him to choose between his family and his girlfriend at this point, because if he’s got any backbone at all, he’ll choose her.

The girlfriend is undoubtedly feeling very hurt and vulnerable right now because of her family’s situation. This is likely a really beautiful window of opportunity for the OP’s family to open their arms to her and offer her a safe, intact family, with nothing crazy going on. (Imagine how much chaos, hurt, guilt and recriminations there are flying around in her family.)

 

[PatriceA]

Abortion is not politics, it’s morality.

Where did I say the father should?

You’re reading things that weren’t written. The OP is not forcing his decisions on his son, he’s forming his own opinions and making a decision on how he’s going to address the situation. The OP is entitled to have an opinion and communicating it. You’re taking tolerance and independence too far. We have our freedoms, but we don’t have a freedom from other people’s freedom of speech, for example (or any sort of freedom from opinion).

Actually he is forcing his decisions on his son, when he says in the OP he suggests he will refuse the girlfriend as a daughter in law. You have a very limited frame of reference to the situation in this thread, as you have never married and never have dealt with inlaw situations. You have never experienced the rejection of an potential inlaw or an actual inlaw after the marriage, or an inlaw undermining a marriage. I’m not reading things that weren’t written. You can’t see the situation beyond your limited experience.

 

[Winters]

Boy, what I monster I’ve become!

You’ll just have to trust me that my past would NOT indicate me doing the things that have been thrown my way in this thread nor would my past suggest I am the terrible person that the crowd fears.

Nevertheless, I do appreciate many and even perhaps most of the comments and counsel about due caution. In all likelihood this will be the course ahead.

I think I know the young woman well-enough to rule out that she might have very extreme opinions on abortion which these days range all the way to permitting partial birth abortion and even the post birth-killing of children as posited by Peter Singer . In a post above, mikecash stated, “*I sometimes think it is hard for people who are firmly prolife to understand the amount of brainwashing most millennials have received on this subject!”
*.

So, if you would allow me to take a hypothetical turn with this thread please read on.

Is there no point at which a parent should hold their ground when the subject is the killing of young and/or unborn human beings? The conventional wisdom which emerged above was that I might well ruin the relationship with my son and my future d.i.L. would choose to ignore me altogether leaving me a lonely old man (particularly since we have only the one child).

And I am not being hypothetical when I tell you that this young woman (she is just entering law school), though very cordial and pleasant, would be most in character to start such a conversation and my son may or may not be around.

Do I cower? She may be looking for an answer that does challenge her - (and perhaps I should ask her if I may challenge her if she has taken the initiative to start such a discussion). What is a father’s/older man’s role here? Are there indeed human lives at stake? Not at stake merely in this family-to-be but I am quite afraid that such temerity in part explains how this country got to a million abortions per year.

So, I do hope the above hyperbole is only hypothetical for me. But I can honestly tell you that even as close as I am to my son (and believe me there will be discussions with him directly), given the right set of facts and conditions, I can’t see how I can ignore this teaching of Jesus :

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household”.

It is so sad to think that this was part of what it took to end slavery in the US. Historians have suggested that it was temerity within families which allowed, in part, the nazi’s to ascend to power. I certainly don’t anticipate that the abortion battle of our day will involve swords of any kind nor in any way, but I think if we do believe that we as human being do have a right to life, the fight will not be a particularly pleasant one and it will involve sacrifice.

 

[Xantippe]

“Is there no point at which a parent should hold their ground when the subject is the killing of young and/or unborn human beings?”

If your son, being a full-grown adult, hasn’t assimilated your point of view by now, you are never going to argue him into it. Have you ever put your fingers in a pair of Chinese handcuffs? The more you fight it, the more tightly you are trapped. Likewise, with arguing with relatives–the more we fight, the less likely we are to win.

I think a lot of us are probably looking at your situation, having experienced bad in-law situations. In-laws who think that it’s up to them to have us jump through hoops, refuse to accept us, won’t speak to us, think that we’re never good enough as husbands or wives or parents, constantly criticize, treat us like gum on the bottom of their shoe, etc. It’s a very tricky thing being a good in-law.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I would like to point out that “Book Worm” did not take the thread off-topic with his/her post. PTL did with his/her comment about Obama. Of, course, the thread nannies always ignore off-topic posts that expouse the Conservative/Republican point-of-view!

I am aware of that, thank you, but I think it was the fourth and most recent off-topic post (at the time, as my answer here is off-topic as well), so it seemed like a good time and place to remind all of rules to stop the derailment, hijacking, whatever. One can always start one’s own thread.

Since I am already off-topic, I’ll edit and also use this post to apologize to the OP in using the wrong pronoun in my previous post here. I am sorry for my mistake. Mea culpa.

Back to the thread.