My Spiritual Journey

[jbsmith]

Tonks40:

To go back a couple of posts:

Awesome! I’m an alto by trade, but have sang tenor (in high school) and usually do second alto when called upon.

I bet you sang some pretty good duets in your life! It’s so hard to find a male to sing a duet with the appropriate harmonies (I’m a harmony-freak).

Mike tells me he hates me (He’s just kidding) because I break into harmony on the spur of the moment. He says I’m the first person he’s ever personally known who can just spontaneously make up a harmony. I love singing duets. Several years ago when I was actively involved in my Protestant church, I was on the praise team and sung a solo once a month. One month, a young woman on the praise team and I sang a very soulful, R&B version of “Precious Lord.” I sung harmony on it. Without sounding arrogant, I was very happy with it. I think we did well. I miss singing in church.

 

[jbsmith]

beckyann2597:

Sometimes people can hear without listening. Your sister might have been told or read about the truth of the Catholic Faith, but whether it sunk in or not is another thing. We cannot fault her if she did not take that information into her heart and if she truly doesn’t understand it as the truth. We just have to pray that God’s Grace opens her heart to the Truth.

If I understand correctly, she’s saved as long as she doesn’t fully understand the Catholic faith? If she actually believes that the Catholic Church is the One, True Church and remains a Protestant, she loses her salvation? But if she believes her Baptist church is right and doesn’t believe that the Catholic Church is right, then she’s okay? Do I understand correctly?

 

[Dorothy]

jbsmith:

Mike tells me he hates me (He’s just kidding) because I break into harmony on the spur of the moment. He says I’m the first person he’s ever personally known who can just spontaneously make up a harmony. I love singing duets. Several years ago when I was actively involved in my Protestant church, I was on the praise team and sung a solo once a month. One month, a young woman on the praise team and I sang a very soulful, R&B version of “Precious Lord.” I sung harmony on it. Without sounding arrogant, I was very happy with it. I think we did well. I miss singing in church.

Your talents can be used in the Church at some future time.

And, it is not arrogant to acknowledge the gift the Holy Spirit gives you!

 

[Tonks40]

Dorothy:

Your talents can be used in the Church at some future time.

And, it is not arrogant to acknowledge the gift the Holy Spirit gives you!

I absolutely agree! People tell me all the time that my knack for singing well is a gift from God, and that I should use this gift. Early on in life, I thought I would use it to make lots of money. Since my own reversion back to the Church, I realized that I was using my singing to stroke my own ego, to get some kind of attention to myself that I must’ve thought I was lacking.

I was singing in a non-denom gospel choir. I was constantly getting solos. Not that it’s a bad thing, but for me, when the Holy Spirit started calling me back, I began to feel uncomfortable being the center of attention in a worship setting when the focus should be on the Lord. So I quit the group, and quickly joined the music ministry at my parish, where assisting in the Mass through music was a more reverent and humbling experience, along with it being a more unified effort amongst choral members.

I still enjoy breaking out on some high-spirited songs - but I leave that to karaoke!! (Did so at a recent Ministry Fair event that had a karaoke stage - our pastor was so inspired, he decided to try karaoke himself!!)

I echo Dorothy’s sentiments - I hope you don’t rule out the possibility to use your talents in the Church.

 

[icequeen]

jbsmith:

If I understand correctly, she’s saved as long as she doesn’t fully understand the Catholic faith? If she actually believes that the Catholic Church is the One, True Church and remains a Protestant, she loses her salvation? But if she believes her Baptist church is right and doesn’t believe that the Catholic Church is right, then she’s okay? Do I understand correctly?

Actually, what I think that she is saying is that some people may get the full Truth, but it does not sink in all the way. She won’t loose her salvation if she remains Baptist, she just won’t receive the fullness of the salvation that Catholics receive. All Christians have salvation in Christ. Some Protestants have a very difficult time with converting to Catholicism. It’s because they have heard all the propaganda for their whole lives and have a hard time accepting the Truth. It will take a lot of time and prayer to get Ginger to fully accept the Truth of the Catholic Church AND to take that big step. If you read Dr. Hahn’s book about his conversion,* Rome Sweet Home*, he and his wife struggled a lot with these issues. Just pray a lot and answer her questions with kindness. Also, you may send her here to the forums, then we can work on her. We are good at twisting arms a little! (Just kidding)

 

[Rammy]

icequeen:

Actually, what I think that she is saying is that some people may get the full Truth, but it does not sink in all the way. She won’t loose her salvation if she remains Baptist, she just won’t receive the fullness of the salvation that Catholics receive. All Christians have salvation in Christ. Some Protestants have a very difficult time with converting to Catholicism. It’s because they have heard all the propaganda for their whole lives and have a hard time accepting the Truth. It will take a lot of time and prayer to get Ginger to fully accept the Truth of the Catholic Church AND to take that big step. If you read Dr. Hahn’s book about his conversion,* Rome Sweet Home*, he and his wife struggled a lot with these issues. Just pray a lot and answer her questions with kindness. Also, you may send her here to the forums, then we can work on her. We are good at twisting arms a little! (Just kidding)

It is well put into words Queenie…really! I struggled with it, being a Catholic…feeling so different, that i figured we were the wrong ones. I opted for not listening to anyone…and decided to trust NO one, NO church, and simply pray and decide what would Jesus do?

There was a simplicity in the aproach that made the difference to me…skip the preaching, and teach by letting others observe your happiness. Also…when someone was down, and was a christian in general…i supported them in prayer only…holding their hands, crying with them, saying what i wanted to pray for them. I used the beautiful intro of how spiritually he wanted them to be in his arms…right now…just like any child wants their parents…

I prayed for the panic to leave their hearts, and to ask God to help them feel at ease…to comfort them…to give them the endurance to accept what ever happened (The Grace to Endure) We might not be able to change what happens, but with God we can change how we cope with it.

The picture of Jesus at the door knocking is a great place for a first lesson. Show them what lacks in the picture…no door knob. It can not be opened by Jesus…he lingers wanting to help, but he will not go where he is not invited. When you finally open the door, he is so glad and jubulent.

Like any prayer, we must learn to invite him in. If we do not invite him in…we are only talking AT him through closed doors. When you invite him in, then pray…then there is the added bonus…he can bring all parts of him…especially the power of the holy spirit. This is what gives us the Grace to endure, the feeling of safety, and sooo much more.

Usually by this time, they are no longer crying, and they say how different this felt, and yes, they are not overwhelmed emotionally at that moment. And i reinforce, we only get frustrated when we feel alone. At all chances, open the door, pour that cup of tea, and gab away with your loving new friend. Up until you opened the door, it was only mere theology. Now it is personal, and real.

Nothing you say, without the foundation of friendship, and teaching them to let him in…ever means anything with real impact. There is a knowing, a sureness, a completeness that is given that you can say…this prayer WAS different, once i opened the door. It is powerful. When you see and feel what is different with the friendship, and holy spirit…then and only then can the information be processed with an open heart…and the listening for the answers in your heart to be clear.

Often i hear…if i had only known the difference in prayer…it is beautiful. I then tell them, i just had to share it…as i only discovered it less than a year ago…and then everything made sence.

So Jeff, work on oportunities to pray with her…and even if it is a moment out of the blue…and chime in…dont forget to invite him in…

“what do you mean invite?”

Oportunity knocking is a saying worth it’s words!

Lana

 

[jbsmith]

Dorothy:

Your talents can be used in the Church at some future time.

And, it is not arrogant to acknowledge the gift the Holy Spirit gives you!

Thank you.

 

[jbsmith]

Tonks40:

I absolutely agree! People tell me all the time that my knack for singing well is a gift from God, and that I should use this gift. Early on in life, I thought I would use it to make lots of money. Since my own reversion back to the Church, I realized that I was using my singing to stroke my own ego, to get some kind of attention to myself that I must’ve thought I was lacking.

I was singing in a non-denom gospel choir. I was constantly getting solos. Not that it’s a bad thing, but for me, when the Holy Spirit started calling me back, I began to feel uncomfortable being the center of attention in a worship setting when the focus should be on the Lord. So I quit the group, and quickly joined the music ministry at my parish, where assisting in the Mass through music was a more reverent and humbling experience, along with it being a more unified effort amongst choral members.

I still enjoy breaking out on some high-spirited songs - but I leave that to karaoke!! (Did so at a recent Ministry Fair event that had a karaoke stage - our pastor was so inspired, he decided to try karaoke himself!!)

I echo Dorothy’s sentiments - I hope you don’t rule out the possibility to use your talents in the Church.

It would be nice to use my talents in the Church in some manner. I’d like that.

 

[jbsmith]

icequeen:

Actually, what I think that she is saying is that some people may get the full Truth, but it does not sink in all the way. She won’t loose her salvation if she remains Baptist, she just won’t receive the fullness of the salvation that Catholics receive. All Christians have salvation in Christ. Some Protestants have a very difficult time with converting to Catholicism. It’s because they have heard all the propaganda for their whole lives and have a hard time accepting the Truth. It will take a lot of time and prayer to get Ginger to fully accept the Truth of the Catholic Church AND to take that big step. If you read Dr. Hahn’s book about his conversion,* Rome Sweet Home*, he and his wife struggled a lot with these issues. Just pray a lot and answer her questions with kindness. Also, you may send her here to the forums, then we can work on her. We are good at twisting arms a little! (Just kidding)

That’s something I’ve been wondering about for a while, but I haven’t been able to get a clear answer. I’ve read some things from the Church that indicate that Protestants are saved and some things that indicate that Protestants aren’t saved. I’ve known so many Protestants and Catholics who were so Christ-like I can’t possibly imagine them not being saved. After all, the Bible does say that we shall know a Christian by his or her fruits. Maybe God is bigger than any denominational walls people can build. Do you think there will most likely be Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostals, Prebyterians, etc. rejoicing together in Heaven?

My sister isn’t one to engage in Church bashing or denomination bashing. She thinks that if a person believes in the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, the death and resurrection of Christ and places their faith in Him as his/her Savior, then that person is fine regardless of church affiliation. (She does, however, draw the line at denominations that are cultic, such as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses.) She thinks it’s wonderful that I’ve found a spiritual home in the Catholic Church. She just seems to think that hers is elsewhere. I’m not even sure if I should try to bring her into the Church. On one hand, I think I should. On the other hand, though, I think maybe I should leave her alone if she’s happy and having her spiritual needs met at this Baptist church. It’s confusing.

I did tell her about this forum, but she hasn’t checked it out. I doubt that she will.

 

[jbsmith]

Rammy:

It is well put into words Queenie…really! I struggled with it, being a Catholic…feeling so different, that i figured we were the wrong ones. I opted for not listening to anyone…and decided to trust NO one, NO church, and simply pray and decide what would Jesus do?

There was a simplicity in the aproach that made the difference to me…skip the preaching, and teach by letting others observe your happiness. Also…when someone was down, and was a christian in general…i supported them in prayer only…holding their hands, crying with them, saying what i wanted to pray for them. I used the beautiful intro of how spiritually he wanted them to be in his arms…right now…just like any child wants their parents…

I prayed for the panic to leave their hearts, and to ask God to help them feel at ease…to comfort them…to give them the endurance to accept what ever happened (The Grace to Endure) We might not be able to change what happens, but with God we can change how we cope with it.

The picture of Jesus at the door knocking is a great place for a first lesson. Show them what lacks in the picture…no door knob. It can not be opened by Jesus…he lingers wanting to help, but he will not go where he is not invited. When you finally open the door, he is so glad and jubulent.

Like any prayer, we must learn to invite him in. If we do not invite him in…we are only talking AT him through closed doors. When you invite him in, then pray…then there is the added bonus…he can bring all parts of him…especially the power of the holy spirit. This is what gives us the Grace to endure, the feeling of safety, and sooo much more.

Usually by this time, they are no longer crying, and they say how different this felt, and yes, they are not overwhelmed emotionally at that moment. And i reinforce, we only get frustrated when we feel alone. At all chances, open the door, pour that cup of tea, and gab away with your loving new friend. Up until you opened the door, it was only mere theology. Now it is personal, and real.

Nothing you say, without the foundation of friendship, and teaching them to let him in…ever means anything with real impact. There is a knowing, a sureness, a completeness that is given that you can say…this prayer WAS different, once i opened the door. It is powerful. When you see and feel what is different with the friendship, and holy spirit…then and only then can the information be processed with an open heart…and the listening for the answers in your heart to be clear.

Often i hear…if i had only known the difference in prayer…it is beautiful. I then tell them, i just had to share it…as i only discovered it less than a year ago…and then everything made sence.

So Jeff, work on oportunities to pray with her…and even if it is a moment out of the blue…and chime in…dont forget to invite him in…

“what do you mean invite?”

Oportunity knocking is a saying worth it’s words!

Lana

Thank you, Lana. I’ll be seeing here on Saturday. Maybe I can talk to her a little more then. I don’t know what will happen, though. She had a really positive experience when she went back to her Baptist church this past Sunday and it made a big impression on her. She plans to go back.

 

[Dorothy]

jbsmith:

That’s something I’ve been wondering about for a while, but I haven’t been able to get a clear answer. I’ve read some things from the Church that indicate that Protestants are saved and some things that indicate that Protestants aren’t saved. I’ve known so many Protestants and Catholics who were so Christ-like I can’t possibly imagine them not being saved. After all, the Bible does say that we shall know a Christian by his or her fruits. Maybe God is bigger than any denominational walls people can build. Do you think there will most likely be Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostals, Prebyterians, etc. rejoicing together in Heaven?

My sister isn’t one to engage in Church bashing or denomination bashing. She thinks that if a person believes in the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, the death and resurrection of Christ and places their faith in Him as his/her Savior, then that person is fine regardless of church affiliation. (She does, however, draw the line at denominations that are cultic, such as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses.) She thinks it’s wonderful that I’ve found a spiritual home in the Catholic Church. She just seems to think that hers is elsewhere. I’m not even sure if I should try to bring her into the Church. On one hand, I think I should. On the other hand, though, I think maybe I should leave her alone if she’s happy and having her spiritual needs met at this Baptist church. It’s confusing.

I did tell her about this forum, but she hasn’t checked it out. I doubt that she will.

Jeff,

In our Catechism, #847 states: “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.” (This comes from the Encyclical Lumen Gentium).
It is good to go back a couple of pages and read all on this subject. Actually, your sister does know the Gospel, she just doesn’t see the whole picture yet.

Now, it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t evangelize and explain our faith to others, when the opportunity to do so arises. Prayerfully listening to the Holy Spirit will guide us as to how and when we should do that.

When I am concerned about what seems like someone else’s “stubborness” regarding their view of God, I need to remind myself that I need to be giving a loving example, and that God who is infinitely merciful, just, and fair knows perfectly well the heart of that person and how He wants to lead them at this moment in time. (I am keeping in mind several of my own children at this time). I keep praying for them, and opportunities do arise where I can gently say something that will make an impression. I need to keep praying for God’s wisdom! (s). I have an adult daughter who does not accept Christianity, but she calls me for prayer requests!

So, be at peace Jeff, pray and leave it in God’s hands, and let God lead you to those “open door moments” when the Holy Spirit nudges us as to what we can say or do.

 

[Rammy]

Mornin Jeff…ok, i never went to bed yet…so i am saying good morning, God bless, take care, drive safe, and don’t forget to leave home with clean underwear…

gosh the list was hard enough to hear from my own ma growing up…

but you seem more tollerant than she could ever muster. If i said that back…she would be convinced that i was mocking her. Mock not, befuddled from hearing it yes…lol

so in light of the hour…this muttle is all that is left…sorry!

God bless, take care…etc. etc. etc.

 

[beckyann2597]

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-6892289&T1=the+journey+home

Hi Jeff, I hope you are well and that the reason you haven’t posted in a while is because you are reading and spending quality time with your father. I pray that he is feeling better.

Above is a link to The Jorney home with Scott McDermott. He is a man who used to be an Atheist and had SSA. I thought you might find it interesting to listen to.

 

[beckyann2597]

jbsmith:

If I understand correctly, she’s saved as long as she doesn’t fully understand the Catholic faith? If she actually believes that the Catholic Church is the One, True Church and remains a Protestant, she loses her salvation? But if she believes her Baptist church is right and doesn’t believe that the Catholic Church is right, then she’s okay? Do I understand correctly?

I didn’t respond to this and I apologize. The other posters who sited the CCC and tried to say what they thought I meant hit it right on. I am sorry if I confused you. I think if your sister came to a full understanding of the fullness of Truth in the Catholic Church, she would never leave. I can’t imagine anyone truly understanding and leaving.

 

[Rammy]

Hello Jeff, i am rambling less today…and still thinking of you and a lot about how yoour dad is doing…god bless!

 

[jbsmith]

Dorothy:

Jeff,

In our Catechism, #847 states: “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.” (This comes from the Encyclical Lumen Gentium).
It is good to go back a couple of pages and read all on this subject. Actually, your sister does know the Gospel, she just doesn’t see the whole picture yet.

Now, it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t evangelize and explain our faith to others, when the opportunity to do so arises. Prayerfully listening to the Holy Spirit will guide us as to how and when we should do that.

When I am concerned about what seems like someone else’s “stubborness” regarding their view of God, I need to remind myself that I need to be giving a loving example, and that God who is infinitely merciful, just, and fair knows perfectly well the heart of that person and how He wants to lead them at this moment in time. (I am keeping in mind several of my own children at this time). I keep praying for them, and opportunities do arise where I can gently say something that will make an impression. I need to keep praying for God’s wisdom! (s). I have an adult daughter who does not accept Christianity, but she calls me for prayer requests!

So, be at peace Jeff, pray and leave it in God’s hands, and let God lead you to those “open door moments” when the Holy Spirit nudges us as to what we can say or do.

Thank you for your response, Dorothy. I know my sister loves God, and I take comfort in that. For some reason, she’s scared about going to a Catholic church. I believe that this is why she went back to her old church, even though they were mistreating her. The familiarity of her Baptist church is more comforting than going to a Catholic church. She came to see me last weekend. I’m trying to quietly be a good example.

 

[jbsmith]

Rammy:

Mornin Jeff…ok, i never went to bed yet…so i am saying good morning, God bless, take care, drive safe, and don’t forget to leave home with clean underwear…

gosh the list was hard enough to hear from my own ma growing up…

but you seem more tollerant than she could ever muster. If i said that back…she would be convinced that i was mocking her. Mock not, befuddled from hearing it yes…lol

so in light of the hour…this muttle is all that is left…sorry!

God bless, take care…etc. etc. etc.

Hi, Lana. Good to hear from you. I’m back.

 

[jbsmith]

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-6892289&T1=the+journey+home

Hi Jeff, I hope you are well and that the reason you haven’t posted in a while is because you are reading and spending quality time with your father. I pray that he is feeling better.

Above is a link to The Jorney home with Scott McDermott. He is a man who used to be an Atheist and had SSA. I thought you might find it interesting to listen to.

Thank you for the link, Rebecca. I’ll look at it tomorrow when I’m not so tired. (I’m going to bed soon.)

I haven’t posted in a while because I’ve been sick. I’ve been going to the doctor as well as to the chiropractor. My father isn’t doing very well, I’m afraid. Please keep praying.

 

[jbsmith]

beckyann2597:

I didn’t respond to this and I apologize. The other posters who sited the CCC and tried to say what they thought I meant hit it right on. I am sorry if I confused you. I think if your sister came to a full understanding of the fullness of Truth in the Catholic Church, she would never leave. I can’t imagine anyone truly understanding and leaving.

Thank you. I don’t think she really realizes exactly what the Church teaches. I know she definitely doesn’t understand Church history. I tried to explain some of it to her when she came to visit me, but I could tell it went over her head. My sister’s experiences with Catholicism and historical Christian doctrines are basically zero. I would still love for her to come into the Church, but I’m not going to be pushy. I don’t want to drive her away.

 

[jbsmith]

Rammy:

Hello Jeff, i am rambling less today…and still thinking of you and a lot about how yoour dad is doing…god bless!

Thank you, Lana. God bless you too.