My uncle wont go to my wedding

[call_me_B]

I would like to know alittle more as to why just because my soon to be wife and I are not being supported by 1 section of my family due to her having been divorced. My aunt and uncle are catholics and have made it a point to call my father(uncles brother) and express to him that he couldnt support my marriage. we are not getting married in the church or by a priest, my friend got ordained online. is this really church stance on this and how do i not see them as turning their back on me? i truely dont know if ill beable to talk to my family members after this. also will they achkowledge her as my wife? they seem to like her and have been very kind and cordial in the past but this seems like a direct attack on her.

 

[Love_is_Patient]

I would like to know alittle more as to why just because my soon to be wife and I are not being supported by 1 section of my family due to her having been divorced. My aunt and uncle are catholics and have made it a point to call my father(uncles brother) and express to him that he couldnt support my marriage. we are not getting married in the church or by a priest, my friend got ordained online. is this really church stance on this and how do i not see them as turning their back on me? i truely dont know if ill beable to talk to my family members after this. also will they achkowledge her as my wife? they seem to like her and have been very kind and cordial in the past but this seems like a direct attack on her.

It’s tough, isn’t it? You want your family there. I don’t blame you.

But there are a couple of things that might be going on here. I hope you’ll try to understand where your aunt and uncle are coming from and do your best to forgive them. Life is too short for grudges and family feuds.

First, are you Catholic? (I know you have Agnostic in your profile, but were you baptized and raised Catholic?) If so, your aunt and uncle might still see you as such - and Catholic teaching is that Catholics have to be married in the presence of a priest (unless they get a dispensation.) So that could be problem #1.

Problem #2: If your fiancee was divorced - and her marriage was never found to be invalid - in Catholic eyes, she’s still married, so she can’t marry you.

Please try not to see it as a direct attack on her. I’m sure she’s a lovely woman. But your relatives feel that they would be compromising their faith to acknowledge this as a real wedding.

I know this is probably not what you want to hear. But this is what Catholics believe. If you’d like some more information, I’ll try to dig up some links for you. Let me know.

Hope this helps clear up the confusion. Sorry that it won’t help with the family issues.

Love is Patient

 

[call_me_B]

no i was raised loosly christian but not catholic. so this means they will not achkowledge her as my wife? so its not just not attending the wedding? but a life long deal… how would you feel if your uncle was jewish and told you your marriage was a sham because a rabi didnt perform the ceremony?.. still dont know how to accept this and how to forgive them for hurting me in such a way. she was not married in the catholic church the first time anyway…

 

[Guyonthestreet]

That’s a rough situation to be in - the way you are getting married and the fact your wife to be is a divorcee flys in the face of your relatives catholic beliefs of what makes a sacramental marriage.

They may feel that attending somehow sends out a signal they are condoning the wedding, which morally they can not.

But as catholics they are commanded not to judge, so I hope you can dialogue with them and that they will accept your wife and your situation.

I wish you and your wife every happiness in your new life together, and I hope God blesses you both with health, happiness and longevity together.

 

[Love_is_Patient]

no i was raised loosly christian but not catholic. so this means they will not achkowledge her as my wife? so its not just not attending the wedding? but a life long deal… how would you feel if your uncle was jewish and told you your marriage was a sham because a rabi didnt perform the ceremony?.. still dont know how to accept this and how to forgive them for hurting me in such a way. she was not married in the catholic church the first time anyway…

Ok, so then problem #1 isn’t the issue. Forget what I said about it.

Problem #2 is the issue. I’m sorry. (And it doesn’t matter if her first marriage was in a Catholic church or not. It’s still considered a marriage)

But, if I were you, I would talk to your aunt and uncle, instead of just speculating. Maybe they feel as awful about this as you do. And maybe they won’t come to the wedding ceremony, but will continue be kind to you and your betrothed.

I would urge you to try to forgive, no matter what they choose. I’ve seen horrible family feuds come out of weddings. You don’t want that, no matter how much it hurts right now.

Love is Patient

 

[Doxiemom]

If you soon to be wife was not catholic, nor was her first husband, but they were married in a church( or temple) by a valid minister or rabbi, then that was a valid marriage. She is still considered “married”. Unless she can prove that when either she or her first husband entered that marriage with false pretense (like thinking "hey, I can always get a divorce and get alimony for the rest of my life "kinda thing’), then she can maybe get the catholic church to issue an anullment. The catholic church recognizes the two sacraments of other churches -marriage and baptism.

If she was married by a justice of the peace, she ain;t married in the eyes of the church.

This is one of those things that if a hundred folks asked a hundred priest what to do, they get all kinds of answers. Strictly speaking, they are not supposed to go to a wedding of a previously validily married christian, because it would show 'approval" of an act that is considered sinful. Thereby they would be sinning.

This is a tough one. And there are no good answers.

In fairness, i must say this: the catholic church has granted annulments nilly wiily at times for people with the right connections. i know this from a personal experience with a family member.

I personally pray that for your sake that this can be resovled and in love.

 

[nodito]

If she was married by a justice of the peace, she ain’t married in the eyes of the church.

That’s not true. The Church recognizes marriages between non-Catholics as valid (but not sacramental, unless they were both baptized), even when married by a justice of the peace.

B, the reason your uncle cannot attend your wedding as a Catholic is this: Marriage is permanent; it is for life. When two people vow to spend the rest of their lives together “for better and for worse,” those two people become married to each other and are not free to marry anyone else. If your fiance was married before, then the Catholic Church recognizes that marriage as valid. They believed her when she said to her first husband, “I take you to be my husband. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.” This means that as long as that husband is still alive, or unless it is discovered that a real marriage was never contracted in the first place (i.e., by having a tribunal investigate the circumstances surrounding the marriage) then your fiance is not free to marry.

Since your fiance is not free to marry you (because she is already married), your aunt and uncle feel it would be wrong for them to attend the wedding. They feel that they would not be witnessing a wedding, but rather, a public declaration of your intention to commit adultery with each other. Certainly you can understand why they would be unable to celebrate this.

It sounds to me like you are hurt by your uncle’s decision, so you obviously love and care for him. Please have enough respect for his conscience to understand that his decision was not made to hurt you.

God bless.

 

[peary]

I would like to know alittle more as to why just because my soon to be wife and I are not being supported by 1 section of my family due to her having been divorced. My aunt and uncle are catholics and have made it a point to call my father(uncles brother) and express to him that he couldnt support my marriage. we are not getting married in the church or by a priest, my friend got ordained online. is this really church stance on this and how do i not see them as turning their back on me? i truely dont know if ill beable to talk to my family members after this. also will they achkowledge her as my wife? they seem to like her and have been very kind and cordial in the past but this seems like a direct attack on her.

Remember the old 1960s adage? “I can do whatever I want as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody.” Guess what? IT’S A LIE!

ALL of our actions have reactions, even in family relationships which are always tenuous at best.

The fact seems to be neither you nor your fiancee even CARES what the Church teaches or says, which is unfortunate.

But you seem to indicate that your father will support your marriage regardless. It IS your decision, by the way. Both of you can just get married by a Justice of the Peace with a witness. Then, down the road, if you feel the spiritual need to offer yourselves to the Church and partake of Christ’s sacraments, then, when you reach that point, contact a priest and get the ball rolling.

You can always invite your family and relatives to the reception afterwards along with your friends. If they come, fine. If they don’t, then it is probably time to part the ways with them.

In the meantime, I cannot even fathom a marriage not being blessed by God in the Church, but that’s just me.

 

[apromisemade]

That’s such a shame.

It’s awful how something meant to be as wonderful as a wedding can often and easily turn into something ugly and divisive.

I’ve learned enough about marriage in the Catholic church on CAF to know that, to put it simply, unless and until your fiance gets her previous marriage formally annulled by the Catholic Church, regardless of where and how she got married before, she is still married from a Catholic perspective. Even though you and your wife are not Catholic, your aunt and uncle are, ergo that’s just the way they see it. In their eyes you are marrying someone who is already married.

My best advice would be to move forward with the wedding as best as you can without your aunt and uncles involvment. Don’t exacerbate the situation by spending a bunch of time and energy trying to convince them to attend, which would probably just cause more friction and hard feelings in the long run.

It will hurt, undoubtedly, to not have them there, but life seldom goes exactly the way you would’ve hoped. Do your best to enjoy all the planning and preperation and ultimately the big day itself, be cordial to your uncle if you talk to him in the intrem and avoid arguments, and maybe try to find some common ground and or reconciliation once the wedding is over.

 

[Departed_Light]

As a non-Catholic looking in, the whole Catholic annulment thing is about as fouled up as it gets, IMO of course.

The parties in question are married until a Catholic tribunal investigates to find that the marriage never existed in the first place. That’s what a decree of nullity is, it says that a marriage did not occur or is not existent, therefore the parties are free to marry.

How ridiculous.

If a thing did not exist then it does not exist, that is reality and reality does not need a tribunal to state what is or what is not. It simply is or is not.

It is impossible to be in sin by marring a divorced person if the first marriage never existed.

The fact that the Catholic Church does or does not recognize reality is of no consequence to that reality. Reality exists whether anyone recognizes it or not.

 

[MercyMia]

They have a right to decline the invitation. They do not have a right to ever disrespect your wife. I would not make a big deal about them not attending, though you are entitled to your feelings. Since you aren’t Catholic I don’t expect you to agree with them, but hopefully respect on both ends will help diffuse any potential blow ups in the future. As a husband it is your duty to protect your wife from anybody mistreating her. While I technically agree with your family, I know that in-laws are not perfect and can get disrespectful.

 

[Departed_Light]

I would like to know alittle more as to why just because my soon to be wife and I are not being supported by 1 section of my family due to her having been divorced. **My aunt and uncle are catholics and have made it a point to call my father(uncles brother) and express to him that he couldnt support my marriage. **we are not getting married in the church or by a priest, my friend got ordained online. is this really church stance on this and how do i not see them as turning their back on me? i truely dont know if ill beable to talk to my family members after this. also will they achkowledge her as my wife? they seem to like her and have been very kind and cordial in the past but this seems like a direct attack on her.

I am so sorry. I can imagine the distress this causes. As far as the bolded part of your original post, may I suggest you contact the uncle and speak to him directly rather than have the “he said she said” thing going on. You might be able to gently ask the uncle that if he has any objection to your life in the future that you’d appreciate it if he told you directly rather than going to someone else in the family about it. Hope everything works out for you

 

[call_me_B]

wow lots of great things being said here. i want to thank everyone for their feedback. while it still hurts that they wont be there at least i know that it is actually founded in their (Edited) religious beliefs and not just them using it to not come. now for a slight twist on the whole ordeal, my grandmas birthday is the day of my wedding, originally i told dad if they didn’t come to the wedding they cant come to the reception however last night i realized we are celebrating my uncles mithers 80th on the same day. is it ok to go to the reception of adulterers or would that be showing support of adultery? im wondering cause i want to call and tell him i accept the fact that i cant make him come but that he is welcome to the reception. any thoughts?

 

[Mickey]

at least i know that it is actually founded in their fanatical religious beleifs and not just them using it to not come.

Fanatical? They are respecting the beauty and reverence of the sacrament of holy matrimony. You are an agnostic getting married by a man with an internet degree–that seems fanatical to me.

I think that it is proper for them not to attend the “service”.

 

[call_me_B]

ok that still didnt answer the question. and yes fanatical due to the fact that we will have many catholics present at the ceremony. but i dont want to argue religious fanatisism on a chatholic forum. my question is will they still be in good standing with god(in your beleifs) if he comes to the reception?

 

[Mickey]

but i dont want to argue religious fanatisism on a chatholic forum.

Good–then you can stop referring to them as having “fanatical religious beliefs”.

You should apologize.

 

[call_me_B]

once again you didnt answer the question and i will not appologize. plz stop harssing me if you dont want to help me then plz dont respond. your on the border of really urkin me and unleashing my wrath on religion in general but im trying really hard to be understanding of this and respectful of your beleifs as best i can. as an outsider this behavior seems very fanatical to me and since you beleive your god gave me free will i am free to feel that they are fanatical catholics. now be a stand up guy and answer wether or not the catholic religion would be ok with them going to my reception or not. in my opinion beleiveing in an invisible man that loves you but will send you to burn in hell for all eternity is fanatical but once again im not wanting to get into religious debate here im simply trying to understand my family alittle better and see if theres any way they can atleast participate in a day that is sooo important to me my fiance and our son. refer to the serentiy prayer for this if you have to line 2 and 3 apply here. you arent gonna change me im very set in my ways , im a good man that does all he can to make sure the people he knows are happy and loved, i never intentionally hurt anyone, and if there is a god i know that he will know what i have done in this life(which i beleive to be the only life) was done imn love and compassion and if he still condems me then so be it. ok anyway like i said i really dont want this to turn into a soapbox debate i truely beg that you not get hung up on the fact that im an outsider and not pick apart every little thing. i said fanatical 1 time and you have decided to not let me go on without appologizing, love me enough to let it go and answer my question please

 

[querying]

once again you didnt answer the question and i will not appologize. plz stop harssing me if you dont want to help me then plz dont respond. your on the border of really urkin me and unleashing my wrath on religion in general but im trying really hard to be understanding of this and respectful of your beleifs as best i can. as an outsider this behavior seems very fanatical to me and since you beleive your god gave me free will i am free to feel that they are fanatical catholics. now be a stand up guy and answer wether or not the catholic religion would be ok with them going to my reception or not. ** in my opinion beleiveing in an invisible man that loves you but will send you to burn in hell for all eternity is fanatical** but once again im not wanting to get into religious debate here im simply trying to understand my family alittle better and see if theres any way they can atleast participate in a day that is sooo important to me my fiance and our son. refer to the serentiy prayer for this if you have to line 2 and 3 apply here. you arent gonna change me im very set in my ways , im a good man that does all he can to make sure the people he knows are happy and loved, i never intentionally hurt anyone, and if there is a god i know that he will know what i have done in this life(which i beleive to be the only life) was done imn love and compassion and if he still condems me then so be it. ok anyway like i said i really dont want this to turn into a soapbox debate i truely beg that you not get hung up on the fact that im an outsider and not pick apart every little thing. i said fanatical 1 time and you have decided to not let me go on without appologizing, love me enough to let it go and answer my question please

Due to your disgusting attitude on religion, I wouldn’t bother attending neither your wedding or wedding reception. You don’t seem to take the covenant of marriage very seriously either.

That’s me two cents.

 

[peary]

As a non-Catholic looking in, the whole Catholic annulment thing is about as fouled up as it gets, IMO of course.

The parties in question are married until a Catholic tribunal investigates to find that the marriage never existed in the first place. That’s what a decree of nullity is, it says that a marriage did not occur or is not existent, therefore the parties are free to marry.

How ridiculous.

If a thing did not exist then it does not exist, that is reality and reality does not need a tribunal to state what is or what is not. It simply is or is not.

It is impossible to be in sin by marring a divorced person if the first marriage never existed.

The fact that the Catholic Church does or does not recognize reality is of no consequence to that reality. Reality exists whether anyone recognizes it or not.

Why is it ridiculous? Christ was against divorce, and it isn’t part of God’s Plan for us with regard to marriage. People basically marry each other, and the marriage is blessed by the Church. And if you look at what has happened in our society because of divorce, and the poverty level of single mothers, the problems with children, etc., one can see that, in the long run, it’s bad for everyone all around.

Because the Church takes seriously its mission of binding and loosing, it has every right to determine if the proper disposition was present when the couple married. It doesn’t necessarily make the marriage “null and void” because “what God has bound together let no one tear asunder.” But spiritually, the marriage may not have had a leg to stand on regardless of whether or not there were children.The Church has to determine this for the persons’ sanctification.

The process is not divorce. That is something in the public arena. Annulment is another matter entirely.

 

[Mickey]

once again you didnt answer the question

Apologize first.

and i will not appologize.

Pride is difficult to overcome.

your on the border of really urkin me and unleashing my wrath on religion

You have already released your “wrath on religion”.

im trying really hard to be understanding of this and respectful of your beleifs as best i can.

I see. By calling faithful Catholics “fanatical”?

i am free to feel that they are fanatical catholics.

There you go again. An apology is in order.

now be a stand up guy…

Be a stand up guy and apologize.

in my opinion beleiveing in an invisible man that loves you but will send you to burn in hell for all eternity is fanatical…

You said it again!
Is this part of your releasing your wrath on religion?

but once again im not wanting to get into religious debate here im simply trying to understand my family a little better

Then talk to your family and stop attacking other people’s faith.

you arent gonna change me im very set in my ways

No one is trying to change you, but you owe an apology.

im a good man

Who told you that?

i said fanatical 1 time

You have said it many times.

and you have decided to not let me go on without appologizing, love me enough to let it go and answer my question please

I love you enough to beg you that you humble yourself and apologize. Then I will chime in on your inquiry.