My wife do not care about NFP

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AugustinusD

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Hello,

I have to introduce myself since this is my first post on this forum.
I am Augustinus 27 years old, Turkish, Catholic. After I had an amazing dream about Jesus ı stated to investigate who really he is and than decided to follow him. After 2 years of education in Catholic Church I got baptised 1 month ago.

But I have a problem. I met my wife just 1 month before the dream. If I wasn’t I would take the high path of priesthood. I thought it is the God’s plan that he introduced her to me before he introduced himself :). We got married. She comes to church with me occasionally and believes in Jesus but she doesn’t want to get baptised yet. It is OK since she agreed to raise our kids Catholic in future.

We plan to have 2-3 children in future but for 1-2 years we do not plan to do that because of our financial situation. Most catholics here I asked do not cared about contraception and use it and still take communion. But I couldn’t and asked about it to my priest and he told me about NFP.

The problem is I am ready to do it. It sounds much more logical than putting a rubber between our love or doing Onanism which is traumatic for male part… Pill is not an option because I care for my wife’s mental and physical health.

The problem is my wife did not even read about NFP and when I open the subject she looks stressed and try to change the subject. My pro-contraception catholic friends tell me it is not nice to push the subject on her at all since it will kill her will to baptism in future.

I do not know what to do. I already tried to show her documents about it and told her it is much safer than the method we are usşng right now (Onanism)…

I need advices. She supported me on every other aspect of faith (it is even a bit dangerous to convert from Islam, I was an ayheist but my family background is Muslim) and she is happy that Jesus is on our life but she is scared from baptism, all formal writings etc. you can get in trouble in here. But I do not know why she acts like that of NFP subject. I do not want to push her about this alot… Please give me some advice.

With love,
Augustinus
 
You really can’t force it on her, so pray for her. That’s all you can do.

God bless you for your faith in a Muslim country.
 
I know I can not force it… But everytime we have intercourse I will be in mortal sin. It is really depressing to go to confession everytime…
 
I tried to look up “onanism” online and got basically nothing. So, I don’t know what it is.
But, you must have been told it’s mortal sin, I guess.

Sounds like a difficult situation: God bless.
 
This is a difficult dilemna.

As a Catholic, you must not continue with onanism (the withdrawal method to clarify for bsroufek). It is a form of contraception and you are correct that it is considered grave matter for mortal sin.

As a non-Catholic, your wife is not bound by the Church’s rules and you would be allowed to have sex with her if she was contracepting against your wishes. For example, if she was on the pill, against your wishes, you would be allowed to continue relations with her as long as you did not encourage or assist her in any way in contracepting.

Now, since she is not on the pill and the only forms of contraception you discuss are the condom and withdrawal, you are in a tough situation. You must not contracept, so you and your wife need to address this situation. She may prefer to take on the “responsibility” (for want of a better term here) to contracept and leave you out of it, or she may choose to look into NFP since it is a matter of importance to you.
 
AugustinusD said:
Hello,

I have to introduce myself since this is my first post on this forum.
I am Augustinus 27 years old, Turkish, Catholic. After I had an amazing dream about Jesus ı stated to investigate who really he is and than decided to follow him. After 2 years of education in Catholic Church I got baptised 1 month ago.

But I have a problem. I met my wife just 1 month before the dream. If I wasn’t I would take the high path of priesthood. I thought it is the God’s plan that he introduced her to me before he introduced himself :). We got married. She comes to church with me occasionally and believes in Jesus but she doesn’t want to get baptised yet. It is OK since she agreed to raise our kids Catholic in future.

We plan to have 2-3 children in future but for 1-2 years we do not plan to do that because of our financial situation. Most catholics here I asked do not cared about contraception and use it and still take communion. But I couldn’t and asked about it to my priest and he told me about NFP.

The problem is I am ready to do it. It sounds much more logical than putting a rubber between our love or doing Onanism which is traumatic for male part… Pill is not an option because I care for my wife’s mental and physical health.

The problem is my wife did not even read about NFP and when I open the subject she looks stressed and try to change the subject. My pro-contraception catholic friends tell me it is not nice to push the subject on her at all since it will kill her will to baptism in future.

I do not know what to do. I already tried to show her documents about it and told her it is much safer than the method we are usşng right now (Onanism)…

I need advices. She supported me on every other aspect of faith (it is even a bit dangerous to convert from Islam, I was an ayheist but my family background is Muslim) and she is happy that Jesus is on our life but she is scared from baptism, all formal writings etc. you can get in trouble in here. But I do not know why she acts like that of NFP subject. I do not want to push her about this alot… Please give me some advice.

With love,
Augustinus
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Welcome Home Augustinus, 🙂

I realise in a majority Muslim country it would have been difficult for you both to convert.

Let your fiance know that the Billings Method (devised by Catholic doctors) is approved by the Church.

It has shown to have a 100% success in some trials and consistently in recent years has yielded a success rate of 99% to 100% if followed strictly. This success rate is higher than many artificial contraception success rates.

thebillingsovulationmethod.org/

I will pray for you both.
:gopray:
 
You could show her this link to show it is endorsed/tested by the world health org (there it is down the bottom, it states 95-97% effective if followed correctly, and it is easy to follow correctly if you both get some confidence about the technique) who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs351/en/index.html
here is the billings method page, which another user suggested, which is very good. woombinternational.org/
It doesn’t necessarily have the Catholic stigma attached as NFP does.

Also perhaps she is embarrassed to talk about it with you and that’s why she keeps shutting you down on the issue. It may not be religion at all. I would try and think of a way to broach the subject without causing embarrassment… that is a challenge for you. Perhaps writing a letter or note to her and giving her a link to some reading material, so that she can come to the matter on her own more at first. And doesn’t have to speak to you face to face at first about it. Maybe you could make the letter extremely romantic too, that you want to make passionate love to her properly.
 
AugustinusD said:
I know I can not force it… But everytime we have intercourse I will be in mortal sin. It is really depressing to go to confession everytime…
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This might actually not be true. Catholics are allowed to have relations with their spouses even if that spouse is using a contraceptive, so long as that contraceptive isn’t abortive in nature (morning after pill and the like… possibly certain birth control pills, I’m not sure).

Now, if she’s demanding that you use a condom, and you give in, then yeah, that would be a mortal sin on your part.
 
My heart goes out to you in your situation. NFP is so exceptionally difficult if the husband is not on board, and it is impossible if the wife does not support it. Pray for your wife daily. Often times, fear of NFP simply stems from ignorance. It is so much easier to make an informed decision when there is information available. As someone else mentioned, the World Health Organization offers some really great information. You can lovingly and gently encourage her over time.

As to onanism and condoms, I personally would lovingly but firmly insist that these no longer occur. She is your wife, and she loves you. Surely she does not want to make you partake in a sexual act that makes you uncomfortable, just as you would never force her to do something that makes her uncomfortable.
 
Thank you so much for all great answers.

Today I went to confession again for it… My priest also told me to pray and leave şt up to God a bit. And I hope I found an answer from God in this gorum and he used you.

I know billings method. But I am not sure if we can learn it some where here. Most of doctors in Turkey will support contraceptives since it is no sin in Islam.

I will check the world health organization thing. Is there a source in internet that she can learn it and apply it?

Thanks for great advices I will definetly try writing a romantic letter and remind her it is really important for me and it will be much better for both of us both sipiritual and physical.

About your good wishes of being in Islam country… It is hard but there are good evangelization opportunities.

Also House of Mother Mary, 7 Churches are here, and half of the bible is written here 🙂 I am living on Holy land and happy to live here. Christianity was born in Jerusalem and grown here than flourished in west.

Again thanks for everything. I love being here with fellow brothers and sisters.
 
AugustinusD said:
Thank you so much for all great answers.

Today I went to confession again for it… My priest also told me to pray and leave şt up to God a bit. And I hope I found an answer from God in this gorum and he used you.

I know billings method. But I am not sure if we can learn it some where here. Most of doctors in Turkey will support contraceptives since it is no sin in Islam.

I will check the world health organization thing. Is there a source in internet that she can learn it and apply it?

Thanks for great advices I will definetly try writing a romantic letter and remind her it is really important for me and it will be much better for both of us both sipiritual and physical.

About your good wishes of being in Islam country… It is hard but there are good evangelization opportunities.

Also House of Mother Mary, 7 Churches are here, and half of the bible is written here 🙂 I am living on Holy land and happy to live here. Christianity was born in Jerusalem and grown here than flourished in west.

Again thanks for everything. I love being here with fellow brothers and sisters.
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You are very welcome. I hope to one day visit Turkey and see the home of Our Lady. 🙂

Below is a video presentation of the Billings Ovulation Method.

youtube.com/watch?v=8XmJrESeL3I

This site will also be useful for her.

thebillingsovulationmethod.org/billings-ovulation-method™/audio-visual-presentation-of-the-billings-ovulation-method™.html
 
“For example, if she was on the pill, against your wishes, you would be allowed to continue relations with her as long as you did not encourage or assist her in any way in contracepting.”

Does someone want to link where they read that it is okay to engage in the marital act with a contracepting (pill) spouse? This seems to contradict everything I’ve ever been taught. If someone had a sterilization without the spouse’s knowledge or consent, I can see how then you could continue to sleep together without is being a sin as long as they know you disapprove (its not easily reversible). But if you know your spouse is taking a pill, I would say you have to withhold the marital embrace. You would be assisting in contraception knowing that the pill is preventing ovulation/implantation.
 
Brigidruns said:
“For example, if she was on the pill, against your wishes, you would be allowed to continue relations with her as long as you did not encourage or assist her in any way in contracepting.”

Does someone want to link where they read that it is okay to engage in the marital act with a contracepting (pill) spouse? This seems to contradict everything I’ve ever been taught. If someone had a sterilization without the spouse’s knowledge or consent, I can see how then you could continue to sleep together without is being a sin as long as they know you disapprove (its not easily reversible). But if you know your spouse is taking a pill, I would say you have to withhold the marital embrace. You would be assisting in contraception knowing that the pill is preventing ovulation/implantation.
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This topic is frequently addressed in the “ask an apologist” forum here, so you can search for some post.

Here is one example:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=475359

The relevant Church document that covers this is:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_12021997_vademecum_en.html
 
AugustinusD

I am in the same situation. It’s been four years since I introduced NFP to my wife, and at the time she got very angry at me, since we already had 3 children and she didn’t want anymor . Then she implanted a IDU and she got pregnant with our fourth. I continued to discuss NFP with her but since she doesn’t want more children, she got very offended. I would regularly confess using a condom or Onanism, and because I often went to confession And I am hard headed, I would come back to my wife to insist that we get rid of the condoms and Onanism, and use NfP. A few months ago she got fed up, and threatened divorce several times. Since I didn’t want to lose my family I gave in. Because by confessing onanism I was recognizing how wrong it is, I would the act to try and stop sinning, but this would get me I trouble with my wife.

I have prayed for almost 4 years for my wife to accept NFP and there appears to change of heart. I read sometime ago that before Vatican II it was deemed a sin for Catholics to marry non-Catholics. Now I know why.

I also realize that in all this - I am fighting against my past sins, my wife’s sins, those of her parents (her mother had a tubal litigation after my wife was born), and the sin of society. So all this takes a lot of grace.

When my wife gave me her ultimatum, I realized how difficult it is to live a Catholic life, and how cowardly I was to live it. I felt that God had said to me, “leave everything and follow me”, and somehow I couldn’t accept to leave my children over this. While it is true that grace fights sin more powerfully and effectively and that being in a state of mortal sin causes you to lose that grace, I also learned that I had to love my wife, and give her everything I have to give of myself and continue to pray that she would one day change.

I hope my experience is helpful for you.

Ze100
 
It appears as though the two options you have considered (other than NFP) are using condoms and withdrawal. I would just like to make the point that NFP is more successful at preventing pregnancy than either of those two methods. Condoms have a pretty high failure rate, and withdrawal does too, because sperm will enter the woman’s body prior to the withdrawal. NFP can be frustrating at times, because of the need to abstain from relations at certain times, but let’s be honest - how fulfilling is withdrawal, and isn’t it true that most people who have used condoms (I’ve only heard) strongly prefer NOT using them (because it is more enjoyable)?

So while you shouldn’t hide your religious beliefs, or pretend that they are a big reason why you are interested in NFP, you really can argue for the use of NFP on completely non-religious grounds. Show her how it is more fulfilling and more effective, and from a completely non-religious perspective, she might be more open to at least learning about it. The human body really is amazing, and when you take an NFP class and start learning about all of the clues your body gives you about your fertility, it doesn’t take a religious person to be impressed by it.
 
ze100 said:
AugustinusD

I am in the same situation. It’s been four years since I introduced NFP to my wife, and at the time she got very angry at me, since we already had 3 children and she didn’t want anymor . Then she implanted a IDU and she got pregnant with our fourth. I continued to discuss NFP with her but since she doesn’t want more children, she got very offended. I would regularly confess using a condom or Onanism, and because I often went to confession And I am hard headed, I would come back to my wife to insist that we get rid of the condoms and Onanism, and use NfP. A few months ago she got fed up, and threatened divorce several times. Since I didn’t want to lose my family I gave in. Because by confessing onanism I was recognizing how wrong it is, I would the act to try and stop sinning, but this would get me I trouble with my wife.

I have prayed for almost 4 years for my wife to accept NFP and there apmpears to change of heart. I read sometime ago that before Vatican II it was deemed a sin for Catholics to marry non-Catholics. Now I know why.

I also realize that in all this - I am fighting against my past sins, my wife’s sins, those of her parents (her mother had a tubal litigation after my wife was born), and the sin of society. So all this takes a lot of grace.

When my wife gave me her ultimatum, I realized how difficult it is to live a Catholic life, and how cowardly I was to live it. I felt that God had said to me, “leave everything and follow me”, and somehow I couldn’t accept to leave my children over this. While it is true that grace fights sin more powerfully and effectively and that being in a state of mortal sin causes you to lose that grace, I also learned that I had to love my wife, and give her everything I have to give of myself and continue to pray that she would one day change.

I hope my experience is helpful for you.

Ze100
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Thank you for sharing you experience. My situation is not that bad…
My wife would not never talk about divorce and she loves Catholic Church just afraid of following it yet. It is too big step for her so please pray for her. I hope she will be catholic and wont take like 4 years.

I will pray for you. If you have children you have too much responsibility so do not feel that bad about it. You try your best. As much as I know Catholic Church do not allow or even recognize divorce but you can live seperate if situation requires but since you have children I do not think it will be God’s will… They need a family.
 
Thanks again for all the help posters to this topic has given me.

I have 2 more questions regarding NFP.

-Is stand of Catholic Church on contraception a doctrine or can it change in the future ?

-I looked into BOM and it looks really effective. My question is if we do Billings Ovulation Method it is kind of impossible to create new life which makes sex just an act of love and joy but not creation of new life… There is kind of no possibility if there is it is not higher than pills or condoms… How is NFP differ on that subject? I mean other birth control methods are unsatisfactory (like withdrawal and condoms) if not bad for health (like pills). But I can not see how it differs on creation of life.
 
Hi AugustinusD,

Yes, BOM is very effective when practiced strictly. Yes, if you practiced it strictly, you could statistically have just as little a chance of conceiving as if you were on some forms of the pill.

However the difference is, while practicing BOM, you are still fully respecting sex as a procreative act. While on the pill it becomes fully separated from being a pro-creative act. I may have explained it poorly, it would be good to ask an expert in theology, but this is my understanding. I know a lot of people get confused about this.

Also keep in mind that NO method of contraception is 100% effective and reliable, even the pill. So its not about the probably but the attitude of the heart.

Also as far as I know many hormone based contraceptives potentially act as abortificants because they make the uterus a very hostile environment. So if an ovum is fertilized, it cannot implant. This is not good 😦
 
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