My wife dresses terribly

[EasterJoy]

The problem here, OP, is that you are writing “covert contracts”.

You dress up for her in an effort to “inspire” her to dress up for you. She is not aware that you have this background expectation of reciprocity, something she has not specifically discussed & agreed. She wears her comfy clothes. You get all hurt, disappointed & “disrespected” because she didn’t fulfill your unspoken, unilateral “agreement”. Silly her, she thinks you’re wearing khakis & a button down because that’s what you felt like wearing.

You create these scenarios in your head and then get let down when they don’t work out, when she fails to uphold her end of the unspoken bargain. This is absolutely toxic to a marriage. Toxic.

(Sorta like the blokes who do the dishes once in a while, harboring the unspoken expectation that the wife will give a “thank you” session of hot sex…and then they frump around the next day because that covert contract didn’t get them what they were really after.)

If you want to “inspire” her to dress differently, either a) bring her places where the dressier clothes are appropriate and let her dress herself accordingly; b) actually sit down, man up & voice your issue about her clothing choices.

But before you do this, is it really just what she’s wearing? Or is it something deeper, where you’re feeling like you’re “carrying the load” of the relationship? If I were a gambling woman, I’d bet the latter. In which case, couples counseling is probably the better idea long term…before toxic patterns and unspoken expectations really damage things.

Right. If you say up front, “I liked it when you used to dress in something nicer than work-out clothes…maybe we could dress nicer for each other?” then there is a conversation. If you just start dressing more nicely, she won’t necessarily conclude you’re doing it for her. She may conclude you’re showing signs of having an affair! If you talk, though, then it comes out that she does not care what you wear, while you care both about what you wear for her and what she wears for you. The topic does not need to stray to leaving up toilet seats, but how each of you feels about the clothes you each choose. Once you’ve each talked about how you feel about it, then you can look for solutions that you each see as an acceptable middle ground.

OP, I’d use this thread to clarify to yourself what it is that you’re after. I’m guessing it is not that you want your wife to look better, but that you see grooming and dressing as an act of consideration for those people you will be with later in the day. Around home, that’s you. If she never tries to look nice at home, it feels as if you are the only person she has deemed not worth the effort. It would be like deciding you didn’t have to use table manners at home, or that spouses don’t need to hear “please” and “thank you.” The other extreme would be somebody who dresses up too much or dresses only to please herself. The woman might look like she’s headed out to a nice dinner all the time, but if she’s all bangled up when they’re headed for a day at the lake, the message her husband gets is “I dress for myself and you get to work around what I can do dressed like this.”

Try Ten Lessons to Transform Your Marriage, by John Gottman, et al.

 

[AthenaC]

Oh my. I don’t think a woman needs to be depressed in order to prefer comfy clothes. Has it occurred to anyone else here that VLM’s wife might be … normal?

Here is one other thought.

Sometimes, I avoid dressing up because it seems to incite lust in my husband. Like, anything I wear that hugs my body causes him to act like a teenage boy. It’s embarrassing to me, and makes me think that I should just dress in gunny sacks so he doesn’t start getting turned on. And no, I do NOT have a great body - I’m at least 15 lbs. overweight at the moment. I would like to be able to dress nicely without getting leered at.

Well, everyone’s different, but I personally enjoy inciting -]lust/-] marital passion in my husband with the things I wear. I, too, am no Barbie, but it’s great that my husband loves my body because he loves me.

VLM, I am the exact same way as your wife. And honestly, it wasn’t until one boyfriend and two husbands said something to me about the way I dressed that it finally occurred to me that I should pay more attention to this.

Here’s how they each handled it and what the results were:

1. Boyfriend -

Him: Let’s go shopping. I want to buy you some clothes.
Me: Why? I have plenty of clothes. I don’t need any more.

(I will skip the back and forth of him trying to delicately drop hints while I was painfully oblivious.)

Him: Well, when we first got together, you used to wear X, Y, and Z outfits and you looked like a million bucks.
Me: I still look nice!
Him: Yes, but … when’s the last time you wore X?
Me: Why, just yester - oh, a month ago I guess. I see your point.

(Scene change - in the dressing room at Charlotte Russe. Me wearing a shirt he picked out and subsequently bought for me.)

Him: See? Now picture you wearing this shirt and those black pants that you look great in, do your hair just so … what do you think?
Me: Wow!

Later on, before going out, he would prompt me -

Him: Hey, instead of that tank top and shorts you’re wearing, how about you put on that shirt I bought you and those pants you look great in?
Me: Oh yeah! That would be great! (I am very forgetful and a creature of habit.)

So boyfriend’s approach was a success, even if he did have to frequently remind me to dress up. You may be able to replicate a similar exercise with your wife’s closet.

1. Husband #1 -

Me: (put on a dress and my go-to sandals, fixed my hair, put on makeup)
Him: (sneering) Gosh, you look like you don’t know how to dress! Dress up a little! And fix your hair! That middle part thing makes it look like you don’t know how to fix your hair. And get rid of that color lipstick! It looks like on your lips!
Me:

Yeah … reason he’s an ex.

Anyway, I can’t imagine you would do that to your wife, but for anyone else, the above is an example of what not to do.

1. Husband #2 -

Him: You wanna, maybe, think about, possibly, putting something else on?
Me: Why? We’re just going to the grocery store. Sweatpants are totally fine.
Him: Well, yeah, but we’re going* out*.
Me: Out of the house? Well, yes, but it’s just the grocery store. I don’t see what the big deal is.

At this point he explained that it bothered him when his ex-fiancee would leave the house with him wearing garish pajama pants and greasy, unkempt hair, while he took the time to shower and put on a pair of jeans. When he said this, it started to dawn on me that he was expressing the same thing that at least one boyfriend and one previous husband had mentioned. He made the case that it mattered to him how we (together) looked to the world and that he wanted us to match as far as level of style (i.e. if he was wearing jeans, I should, too). That made sense to me.

To this day, I still get the occasional “You wanna, maybe, think about, possibly, putting something else on?” Which is my cue that I should put on some jeans and maybe a slightly-less-shapeless shirt.

So hopefully there’s something in there you can use, VLM.

 

[EasterJoy]

Oh my. I don’t think a woman needs to be depressed in order to prefer comfy clothes. Has it occurred to anyone else here that VLM’s wife might be … normal?

…To this day, I still get the occasional “You wanna, maybe, think about, possibly, putting something else on?” Which is my cue that I should put on some jeans and maybe a slightly-less-shapeless shirt…

I think the habit of dressing very well for work and church and then wanting to wear the most “anything-but-well-dressed” thing possible on at all other times is a lot more typical among men than among women. I almost think that being forced into a look-good-at-all-times rule book by your career when it goes against your usual inclination make many people want to overcompensate at home. They simply have run their “how do I look?” bank account into heavy overdraw. Even those who only dress according to the weather, however, can be in the “who cares about clothes?” camp.

Naturally, though, the spouse who only sees such a person looking snappy when coming and going can begin to feel like a 2nd class citizen. Perhaps that kind of dress was considered necessary while courting, but it gradually fell away (or was not so gradually chucked entirely before the ink was dry on the marriage license!)

OP, if you were a woman, we’d tell you to let your husband know that it is the effort of grooming and choosing nicer clothing that makes you feel valued. It isn’t about looks, it is about whether you are worth an effort. So tell her. Then talk. Expect to compromise. Good luck!

 

[AthenaC]

I think the habit of dressing very well for work and church and then wanting to wear the most “anything-but-well-dressed” thing possible on at all other times is a lot more typical among men than among women. I almost think that being forced into a look-good-at-all-times rule book by your career when it goes against your usual inclination make many people want to overcompensate at home. They simply have run their “how do I look?” bank account into heavy overdraw. Even those who only dress according to the weather, however, can be in the “who cares about clothes?” camp.

Yes, that’s possible. Speaking for myself, though, I have no such excuse. Way back when, I always wore BDU’s to work (military fatigues), which are quite comfortable. Even now I pick out “business casual” type items for work that are comfortable and I wear the same accessories every day. (I switch up the clients I work with every few weeks, which further contributes to my laziness - I can repeat the same ~10 outfits over and over again and literally no one will notice.)

Hopefully VLM has some good tools from this thread of how to help his wife prioritize the way she looks more often.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

do feel you’ve picked a bit of a style you’d like to see. You ask why she can’t wear a blouse. I would respond ICK! I don’t like most blouses.

It doesn’t have to be a blouse, again, it doesn’t have to be anything in particular. I’m saying, pick one day out of 7… even one day out of FOURTEEN, and wear something, anything, anyyyyyyyyyyything neat, just not sweats 24/7… show me that you care about me, that you want to look good for me even once a month would mean something.

Much of women’s clothing falls into the category of torture device. As a former dancer I could wear any height of heel, and could never understand all the whining about uncomfy shoes. Until I had an injury involving my ankle, and was informed the grotesque range of motion that I was then plagued with was considered “average.” Oh My, how any woman would suffer through what was easy for me was finally understood. How any person would want them too then seemed cruel.

OP, perhaps the thing you can say, I use this with friends asking for an honest opinion about an outfit. If it looks bad, I say, “That does not flatter you.” That just gave you a short waist you don’t have. It makes your bum look a mile wide when it isn’t. Your legs just shrank 3 inches, or your bust is now HUGE or tiny compared to reality. Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, say these things just as you need to leave, and she has nothing else to wear.

I do feel you’ve picked a bit of a style you’d like to see. You ask why she can’t wear a blouse. I would respond ICK! I don’t like most blouses. Sure for a bank job. But I’d be stripping down to a sweats and a t quickly. That’s why. Maybe she doesn’t like what’s in her closet. I have a mound of clothing that I can’t stand. Usually things purchased for me.

From your description, she clearly has a self image issue. And sadly whatever you say will not change that. If it were only so easy, anorexia, bulima, body dismorphic disorder would not exist today.

Cut out all the middle descriptions, and you reach the fact that she doesn’t have a good self image, and you feel disrespected by that. You have a need that currently she can’t fulfil because she has a problem.

Not exactly, because when we were dating/engaged/newlywed she didn’t have great self image either, but every so often she would at least try.

A person with a poor self image is going to have a very hard personal time getting to thinking they could actually look pretty or handsome. It’s possible she will actually start to feel pressure in this arena, and feel unable to meet the challange. She may truly not know how to put an outfit together. Have you seen what some people walk around in, head held high?

When you get to the point of talking to her about it, remove yourself from the equation. Let her know that you’ve noticed she never dresses up, and that you’re worried it’s a reflection of how she feels with regard to self worth, and what not. With a poor body image, I think you have to be very careful not to make it worse. Depression and poor body image go hand in hand. No one is excited about a body they think is ugly, or unattractive. They are generally sad about this. They may easily be able to function, as they realize it’s not the worst thing in the world, but there is an element of sadness that will exist. IMO And I can’t even imagine where her self image will head to when she gets pregnant, feels sick all the time, and feels like there are houses smaller than her on the market.

She does need help. But you need to realize it’s for her. Not you.

But as I’ve already told you, I’ve done everything I can think of. I’ve always been reaching out to her, I’ve talked to her, I’ve made it perfectly clear that I’m available for that purpose any time.

I’ve also suggested that I will help her find a counselor, etc.

What else can I do???

 

[TheRealJuliane]

It doesn’t have to be a blouse, again, it doesn’t have to be anything in particular. I’m saying, pick one day out of 7… even one day out of FOURTEEN, and wear something, anything, anyyyyyyyyyyything neat, just not sweats 24/7… show me that you care about me, that you want to look good for me even once a month would mean something.

Not exactly, because when we were dating/engaged/newlywed she didn’t have great self image either, but every so often she would at least try.

But as I’ve already told you, I’ve done everything I can think of. I’ve always been reaching out to her, I’ve talked to her, I’ve made it perfectly clear that I’m available for that purpose any time.

I’ve also suggested that I will help her find a counselor, etc.

What else can I do???

Burn her entire wardrobe.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Offer to go shopping with her for new clothes. No woman will say no to that.

I would. I hate to shop.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I would. I hate to shop.

Me too, and even worse would be shopping with my husband. I’d have to show him what I was trying on, and I hate my body right now so to me, nothing looks good and I would be depressed and not want to buy anything.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Me too, and even worse would be shopping with my husband. I’d have to show him what I was trying on, and I hate my body right now so to me, nothing looks good and I would be depressed and not want to buy anything.

Exactly. He would hate it, I would hate it, there would be no point to shopping together.

 

[ringil]

Exactly. He would hate it, I would hate it, there would be no point to shopping together.

Shopping with my wife is how I imagine Purgatory would be like.

 

[AthenaC]

Me too, and even worse would be shopping with my husband. I’d have to show him what I was trying on, and I hate my body right now so to me, nothing looks good and I would be depressed and not want to buy anything.

I know how you feel. On occasion, when we are out of the house anyway, I might stop and admire some clothes display, and my husband will encourage me to try it on (thinking I will feel beautiful and what-not). On the occasion I give in to his suggestion, it inevitably makes me feel worse (those fitting room mirrors always make me look disgusting and current styles aren’t much help). I think he’s learning not to encourage me to try on clothes.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes, that’s possible. Speaking for myself, though, I have no such excuse. Way back when, I always wore BDU’s to work (military fatigues), which are quite comfortable. Even now I pick out “business casual” type items for work that are comfortable and I wear the same accessories every day. (I switch up the clients I work with every few weeks, which further contributes to my laziness - I can repeat the same ~10 outfits over and over again and literally no one will notice.)

Hopefully VLM has some good tools from this thread of how to help his wife prioritize the way she looks more often.

Having lots of different clothing isn’t a moral imperative, and not having it is not a moral fault. You don’t need an excuse to dress simply or comfortably. Even if hair shirts were obligatory, high heels would not be. The heels are merely permissible (provided they aren’t used in spite of ruining one’s feet).

1 Peter says: Your adornment should not be an external one: braiding the hair, wearing gold jewelry, or dressing in fine clothes, but rather the hidden character of the heart, expressed in the imperishable beauty of a gentle and calm disposition, which is precious in the sight of God. (1 Peter 3:3-5)

But 1 Corinthians says: “But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and he is divided. An unmarried woman or a virgin is anxious about the things of the Lord, so that she may be holy in both body and spirit. A married woman, on the other hand, is anxious about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.” (1 Cor. 7:33-34)

Note that 1 Corinthians doesn’t say that a married woman ought not be anxious about pleasing her husband. That spouses want to please each other is taken for granted as part of the package of marriage.

The OP isn’t saying that he wants his wife to wear fancy clothing or to have lots of outfits. He’s only saying that he finds himself feeling less important because he is not one of the people in her life who rate careful grooming and clothing that is chosen to be becoming as well as comfortable.

I think this is a topic for compromise, either in when she is free to “dress down” or what kind of “dress down” clothing she wears, and a discussion about “around home” grooming habits. There are a lot of ways that could work out, but it takes communication and a willingness to give and take.

Stay on the topic and promise to re-visit how the agreement is working out for both spouses. A solution that is being tried for awhile is easier to agree to than a promise to change for the rest of one’s married life.

 

[child_of_God85]

I know this is kind of a personal question, but is your wife over weight? Sometimes women with body immage issues dress to cover these issues up, not realizing that it actually makes them look worse.

 

[AthenaC]

Having lots of different clothing isn’t a moral imperative, and not having it is not a moral fault. You don’t need an excuse to dress simply or comfortably.

AthenaC’s confession list:

-]1) Wearing comfortable clothes/-]
2) Miscellaneous other sins

The OP isn’t saying that he wants his wife to wear fancy clothing or to have lots of outfits.

And neither is my husband, so overall it sounds like VLM has a reasonable attitude.

He’s only saying that he finds himself feeling less important because he is not one of the people in her life who rate careful grooming and clothing that is chosen to be becoming as well as comfortable.

I think this is a topic for compromise, either in when she is free to “dress down” or what kind of “dress down” clothing she wears, and a discussion about “around home” grooming habits. There are a lot of ways that could work out, but it takes communication and a willingness to give and take.

Stay on the topic and promise to re-visit how the agreement is working out for both spouses. A solution that is being tried for awhile is easier to agree to than a promise to change for the rest of one’s married life.

Agreed. Which is why I made sure to point out my own forgetfulness even after I agreed to (for example) wear jeans instead of sweatpants to the grocery store. Even after VLM gets his wife to agree in principle, they may still need a code / reminder between them to trigger the wife’s memory.

VLM, I’m rooting for you. If I can be taught, your wife can, too!

 

[Aggies08]

Is there a situation, perhaps while doing laundry?, that you can say “You have such pretty jeans! I don’t think I’ve seen you wear them in a long time!” That’s still int he hinting and not being obvious, but perhaps she will offer a motivation as to why she chooses to dress how she does. Based on that, you could decide how to best broach the subject?

 

[odile53]

Maybe she really is just dressing down after a long day at work. Maybe she really is more comfortable in a pair of sweat pants and a tee shirt. And yeah, real ballerinas really wear some pretty ratty clothes in the studio: I should know. I danced for NYC Ballet for twenty-two years, and most of my studio clothes would have been suitable for cleaning the garage or painting an outhouse. Most of us wore tights that were more runs than fabric, shoes were blown out and covered with duct tape, and I used to deliberately rip old sweaters and customize them to fit exercise needs. I didn’t have a pair of leg warmers that were intact or matched each other after I was through with my apprenticeship.

That being said, there are plenty of fairly attractive, comfortable athletic/casual/sweat clothes available. Hanes has a website where they have such things. Champion and Danskin also make some comfortable clothes, as well as Discount Dance’s website. There’s a difference between a pair of sweat pants covered with stains and holes, and a pair of black jazz pants that hang well and are clean and intact. Jazz pants, BTW, are knit pants, usually black, and boot cut. I have several pairs at home, and wear them when I teach ballet. The Gaynor Minden website sells them, and they wear like iron, are comfortable, and look great. Gaynor Minden also has a boatneck sweater top that looks great. Some of the dance tops on the Discount Dance website, the tees and cover-ups, are adorable.

There is also a line of really comfortable knit clothing on the j jill website, it’s called “pure jill,” or something like that. They’re drapey, elegant, and comfortable.

Most women who work in the business world just want to get out of those high heels and pantyhose, and constricting clothing once they leave the corporate world for the day and get home. Personally, because I have such rotten feet after nearly half a century of ballet, I’d like about five minutes alone with whatever idiot invented high heels and a two-by-four, but that’s another story. But you’re right: There’s a difference between comfy and crummy.

Check out some of those clothing lines I mentioned, and surprise her with something that is comfortable and pretty!

 

[SwizzleStick]

Shopping with my wife is how I imagine Purgatory would be like.

I hear 'ya! Shopping for clothes with my husband would be the same.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Maybe she really is just dressing down after a long day at work. Maybe she really is more comfortable in a pair of sweat pants and a tee shirt. And yeah, real ballerinas really wear some pretty ratty clothes in the studio: I should know. I danced for NYC Ballet for twenty-two years, and most of my studio clothes would have been suitable for cleaning the garage or painting an outhouse. Most of us wore tights that were more runs than fabric, shoes were blown out and covered with duct tape, and I used to deliberately rip old sweaters and customize them to fit exercise needs. I didn’t have a pair of leg warmers that were intact or matched each other after I was through with my apprenticeship.

That being said, there are plenty of fairly attractive, comfortable athletic/casual/sweat clothes available. Hanes has a website where they have such things. Champion and Danskin also make some comfortable clothes, as well as Discount Dance’s website. There’s a difference between a pair of sweat pants covered with stains and holes, and a pair of black jazz pants that hang well and are clean and intact. Jazz pants, BTW, are knit pants, usually black, and boot cut. I have several pairs at home, and wear them when I teach ballet. The Gaynor Minden website sells them, and they wear like iron, are comfortable, and look great. Gaynor Minden also has a boatneck sweater top that looks great. Some of the dance tops on the Discount Dance website, the tees and cover-ups, are adorable.

There is also a line of really comfortable knit clothing on the j jill website, it’s called “pure jill,” or something like that. They’re drapey, elegant, and comfortable.

Most women who work in the business world just want to get out of those high heels and pantyhose, and constricting clothing once they leave the corporate world for the day and get home. Personally, because I have such rotten feet after nearly half a century of ballet, I’d like about five minutes alone with whatever idiot invented high heels and a two-by-four, but that’s another story. But you’re right: There’s a difference between comfy and crummy.

Check out some of those clothing lines I mentioned, and surprise her with something that is comfortable and pretty!

Great idea! Comfort is key, but one can have comfort and look pretty too.

 

[Della]

I know how hard it is to shop for anything new, and I’ve come out of stores in tears, too. The problem isn’t that we gals have a few extra pounds it’s that we’re made to feel like we’re nothing if we don’t resemble a celery stick instead of a cream puff.

There’s one TV show that is trying to go against that trend of making women feel guilty for their body type/weight – “What not to Wear”. Stacy and Clinton (the shows stars) tell women all the time that it isn’t their body that is bad/wrong, but the clothes. They teach women how to dress themselves to look good in their own bodies by choosing the right clothes for them.

We gals really don’t know how to dress our own bodies. But, it’s possible. If a gal doesn’t know what she needs she should ask one of the stores helpers. I’ll relate a little story:

I had gone to this same store many times and never found something that fit, but I was too embarrassed to ask for help. I had an upcoming wedding to attend and was determined to get something that looked right on me. So, I swallowed my pride and asked for help, letting the gal at the store know my figure problems. She didn’t bat an eye at that, but went right to work finding me something that matched my needs. And sure enough, she picked out a really nice dress that fit me to a tee. It didn’t remove my figure problems, but it showed off my best qualities, which is all any woman can expect unless she’s a super model and even they have figure issues but we just don’t hear about them.

It could be why a lot of women dress sloppily–they are simply stuck thinking there are no clothes out there that fit them. But, it’s not true. And the size on the tag means NOTHING. All that matters is the garment fits and makes a woman feel good about herself.

So, bear that in mind when talking about clothes with your wives, men and you’ll have a much easier time understanding why a woman might feel she doesn’t deserve any new, pretty clothes.

 

[faithfully]

Shopping with my wife is how I imagine Purgatory would be like.

LOL! Purgatory is better than hell!