Mystical experiences?

[Joysong]

Dear Darin,

It is true that many clerics/religious may not understand what you experienced through not having been granted these things by God, or through not having the gifts of knowledge or counsel with which to guide you.

God has blessed the Church with those who knew a vast array of mystical gifts and have left their legacy and instruction for posterity. I would highly suggest you read St. John of the Cross’s “Ascent of Mt. Carmel.” There is so much spiritual counsel as to how to walk on this road when receiving supernatural gifts from God, so that you are not impeded from walking in pure faith on your journey.

The will is particularly attracted to take joy in these experiences, quite naturally so, and it is difficult to wean oneself from rejoicing in them, even subconsciously - they are so far above the most magnificent earthly experience!

Have confidence that you have a great Master in St. John of the Cross, and he will lead you safely through all these perils of mysticism straight to God. You might also pray that God sends someone to help you over the hurdles of what he wrote, but for the most part, he makes it quite clear what the soul must do to cooperate with these gifts of God.

Carole

 

[AlanFromWichita]

DarinHamel:

It’s the line-worker trying to tell the engineers that their current plan won’t work.

If you don’t know me, than this is quite a funny thing you should use this analogy.

My first job out of college was at Boeing, for which I moved from Chicago to Wichita. I was a new electrical engineer.

Whenever I visited the shop, people seemed kind of mean to me and I didn’t know why. This was before I ever received “discernment of idiots” because I’d never been around people who didn’t get along. I asked my boss why I am treated like garbage down there, and if I have done something to offend them. He said, no, it’s because of the 3-7000 on your badge. They don’t know if you’re an engineer, a manager, or a clerk, but they know you are from what they call “engineering” with that badge number.

Over time I found out why the line workers hated engineers. My first project was so messed up beyond belief it was terrible. The Air Force was livid, and the same team was to review the next project which I was to design.

The problem is the people in the shop turn in literally hundreds of requests for change RFC and literally every one gets shot down because it is “too late.” They hated our guts, and for good reason. The process was completely a “throw it over the wall” process.

When I started my project, before we released the drawing to one of my unfavorite managers named Everett Mulkey who refused to change drawings once they had been done (this was before computers) unless forced into is – the fact that the equipment didn’t work was not enough of a reason.

Anyway before releasing the design to packaging, I made the unprecented move to ask my boss if I could go “chat” with the shop. He said, “sure.” I went and showed the supervisor my design notebook and asked if I could talk to old Ed, the biggest engineer hater of them all, and ask suggestions.

The boss introduced me, gave Ed a clock number so it wouldn’t count against his project time, and I handed him the notebook with these words, “Ed, you’ve been building these panels since before I was born, and before we let this design go to packaging I’d like to hear any suggestions you have.”

Ed looked puzzled and a bit suspicious, but it was cool with his boss, so he took the notebook, and flipped through all the pages. As he did so, his face got redder and redder. You see, I had no idea how to design except the technical stuff, so I was told to just “do it like” some other equipment. Equipment he and others with him had to build and had nightmares about. I stood there with notpad and pen as he put the notebook down, built up pressure, and exploded, “Well, the first go***mn thing is that you should never put in shield unless you actually need them. They give us …” and went on for 10 minutes, almost tearing pages as he flipped through the book.

About the shields, I checked and out of hundreds of wires, only two needed to be shielded. We implemented every one of his suggestions, as they were excellent. I even changed the way they defined “peak power” in the B-52 radar, claiming that I could get a better measurement than even the factory that made the radar, and they went along with me. I was like a 22 year old kid.

Also, Boeing made the wise decision of hiring the Air Force MSGT who had been the most vocal critic and hardest to satisfy, and put him on Technical Publications. Anybody who knows military knows that the Tech Pubs are “the book” but they are always at the end of the line. Well, I made an appointment with the AF guy and together designed the control panel, down to what color the indicator lights should be according to military expectations.

That project went so slick through the shop, and people were so pleased to be able to have it built “their way” that that same hostile customer was thrilled. We came in early, no performance issues found even though they came out specifically wanting to Rip Us a New One after what we had pulled on the previous project. The equipment tested the radar transmitter out of the B-52 in less time and easier than the customer had envisioned.

During breaks, I would demonstrate the radar tester for women who had sat at a bench connecting wires for years but had never seen what they built run anything. Quality Assurance chimed in with an amazing innovative process that allowed us fast changes where they actually helped move things along rather than stand in the way. Morale on the project was wonderful, the first production unit worked perfectly according to the test (which I completed ahead of schedule) except for one switch that was wired upside down for some obscure reason.

It isn’t that the engineers are better or worse than the shop people, or that either is disposable. It is the heirarchy and process, combined with attitudes, turf wars, butt covering, and pretty much everything that happens in Dilbert that screws things up.

Alan

 

[DarinHamel]

Joysong:

Dear Darin,

It is true that many clerics/religious may not understand what you experienced through not having been granted these things by God, or through not having the gifts of knowledge or counsel with which to guide you.

God has blessed the Church with those who knew a vast array of mystical gifts and have left their legacy and instruction for posterity. I would highly suggest you read St. John of the Cross’s “Ascent of Mt. Carmel.” There is so much spiritual counsel as to how to walk on this road when receiving supernatural gifts from God, so that you are not impeded from walking in pure faith on your journey.

The will is particularly attracted to take joy in these experiences, quite naturally so, and it is difficult to wean oneself from rejoicing in them, even subconsciously - they are so far above the most magnificent earthly experience!

Have confidence that you have a great Master in St. John of the Cross, and he will lead you safely through all these perils of mysticism straight to God. You might also pray that God sends someone to help you over the hurdles of what he wrote, but for the most part, he makes it quite clear what the soul must do to cooperate with these gifts of God.

Carole

I appreciate your confidence but having an out of body experience is not joyful and neither is getting beat up by things you cant see. For every cool mystical expereince I had ten sucky ones.

I have read everything that is Catholic and mystically releated including the scholars of scholars of the mystics and saint. If it is in English I have read it and found it too complicated or not applicable or just plain wanting. Being vague seems to be a virtue with St Teresa, St John and the rest of the mystics.

St Teresa describe what she calls rapture in detail. I have expereinced the exact same thing but I am not a saint. I get suspicion or worse jealousy when what I want is clarity.

I hope I don’t sound like I am ranting. I might be but I dont want to scare you away. I posted because I want imput, so thank you.

 

[DarinHamel]

Alan,
I am old Ed. Thanks for the story. You get it exactly!
Darin

 

[AlanFromWichita]

DarinHamel:

I appreciate your confidence but having an out of body experience is not joyful and neither is getting beat up by things you cant see. For every cool mystical expereince I had ten sucky ones.

I have read everything that is Catholic and mystically releated including the scholars of scholars of the mystics and saint. If it is in English I have read it and found it too complicated or not applicable or just plain wanting. Being vague seems to be a virtue with St Teresa, St John and the rest of the mystics.

St Teresa describe what she calls rapture in detail. I have expereinced the exact same thing but I am not a saint. I get suspicion or worse jealousy when what I want is clarity.

I hope I don’t sound like I am ranting. I might be but I dont want to scare you away. I posted because I want imput, so thank you.

Everything you write tells more of my own story, with slightly modified details. I have a number of theories you might be interested in, as I am interested in your theories.

I dunno about the rapture thing but I’ve been God, I’ve been satan, Judas, Peter, Paul, the thorn in Paul’s side, Thomas, Lazarus, the rich kid, and about a jillion other roles from time to time while I was having a bit of “identity” issues. At one point I had what I was certain was a “spontaneous” exorcism almost, with the help of my wife who had happened to have read about and learned about spiritual warfare. I have not talked to the diocese exorcist, though I’ve always been tempted to. Whatever it was, it was scary but wonderful at the same time, and I specifically noticed sounds and involuntary facial expressions that corresponded just a bit to a video of an actual Catholic exorcism I once saw and has now probably been burned up in the fire at my house this good Friday. Check out the TV now where I had watched the exorcism less than a year before, third photo from the bottom! I’d also watched a bunch of comedy channel including those stupid “girls gone wild” commercials, so in another thread a poster suggested that this was “God making a point.” See, I think God is the point, things happen for a reason.

At the time I could even tell you why it was happening, but I was helpless to do anything but act weird while my wife stood fast and prayed to me until it suddenly became calm. That was January 29, 2004. On that very day I also gave interviews as “God” to people who were asking me about the authorship of the Bible. Then suddenly I threw the Bible across the room. Yeah, I dunno if this is anything like what you got, but heck I’ve already told people I’m a looney so I finally realized that my status as a bona fide “psycho” actually helps protect me because it gives me an excuse to say weird things around people who would be spooked if they thought I actually did experience these things and wasn’t somehow under treatment. Really I think it’s all part of my vocation, but I have no idea where it is taking me. It hurts when people don’t understand why I do not act this way or that way, and I cannot tell them.

I’m rambling again. My wife is calling. Thank God for everything and everybody.

Alan

 

[DarinHamel]

Alan,
Wow, that fire was awful. At least the Oboe survived! You might be suprised to learn this but most people who find out I go to church everyday are shocked because I seem so normal. I am pretty average aside from my extreme good looks.

I think I have fared better than you because I give it my all and dont date much. I have never had sex, I live in simplicity and I try to find spiritual directors where ever I go. (I used to date but it never lasted long because nobody wants to take second place to God.)

I am not saying your getting married was a mistake. But you chose a harder road than me. I have never had identity problems but I have had demonic ones. Currently I am getting ready to give up all my worldly possessions and do a St Francis. I just want to get my book on mysticism done first.

Nothing matters but God to me. Not women, not money and not myself. I would be cheating my family if I got married and cheating God. Ok I think I am sounding less than normal now, I better go.
Darin

 

[Joysong]

Dear Darin,

You:

I appreciate your confidence but having an out of body experience is not joyful and neither is getting beat up by things you cant see.

Being vague seems to be a virtue with St Teresa, St John and the rest of the mystics. St Teresa describe what she calls rapture in detail.

I truly understand what you are saying, but the internet is not the best place to discuss these things. There are so few capable of directing you spiritually, other than these two saints. Stay with it, re-read the sections and pray for the Spirit’s guidance. I truly believe it will become clear all of a sudden, for God has wonderful ways of teaching you even through their obscurity and vagueness.

Basically, the rapture’s authenticity can be known by some of its spiritual after-effects, as she wrote. You could read that section again very intensely. I know a person who has experienced this, and told me that the greatest fear was that it might occur again, for the pain of being wrenched out of body is beyond anything earthly. St. John of the Cross concurs with this, when he wrote the line in The Spiritual Canticle, “Withdraw them, Beloved!” The soul asks her Beloved not to deal with her in this manner.

Safety, though, consists in trusting God, your Beloved, and in turning your mind beyond the experience into pure faith, as St. John teaches - this is for all supernatural phenomena except for contemplation.

Carole

 

[AlanFromWichita]

DarinHamel:

But you chose a harder road than me.

I chose a harder road, but not because that’s what I sought.

You are saying so much. Do not envy me for dealing with the complications of wife and family, for I have never seen such beautiful fruit as the 8-pack of us ever.

Regarding telling the “engineers” or “primadonnas” what to do, a few years ago I was thrown forcibly and stupidly out of corporate America as “old Ed” role in Bell Labs, who if you’re in Wichita Kansas instead of New Jersey you’re treated like you’re a cowboy hick from Dodge City or something.

I was MTS rank, the highest ranking engineer staff below DMTS (Distinguished Member of Technical Staff), which is the real cream of the crop like the guys who invented UNIX and the C programming language. I got to work side by side with some of these guys, and learned a lot about how some great design minds think. Most degreed engineers were probably MTS-1.

So I was like a sort-of big cheese as engineer, but a non-boss and because I was in Wichita instead of New Jersey, I was Not Infallible. People who did not outrank me were physically “close” to the decision makers. HQ up there in the ivory tower where the trash doesn’t stink in New Jersey, had no clue what went on here in the trenches, but chose to thwart our efforts at every chance. You know why? Because the “winner” to any given problem is the one who can get the first nice looking PowerPoint presentation up in front of the managers, who for them are right down the hallway. Once it has been smiled upon in New Jersey in PowerPoint file, any comments from Wichita that might have involved changing their presentation were heresy.

The last heresy I proclaimed before this stone was rejected was to suggest the New And Will Fix It All part numbering system being proposed by people who had unfortunately too much power over me, was not going to have the intended results, but the opposite.

The got rid of me, and even got me locked up by some secretary who “thought I needed help” making up lies about me. They continued the part numbering system, unimpeded by my shrill hillbilly voice from Wichita. Laid me off in the same round as this one totally worthless woman that everybody hated and was of no value whatsoever except to make meetings more annoying and to crybaby and threaten to bring Pakistani/multicultural/legal/feminist wrath if anybody even questioned her so he always stood up for her. They sure let me know where I stood in the pecking order.

My best friend still works there so I get updates. Guess what they did? Once they got the new system fully implemented at a cost of literally millions of dollars, they realized what I had told them from the getgo, and then spent millions more getting rid of it. So now guess what? They have now complied with my suggestions. Would you believe they did not send me a check for the “I told you so” value? Did they write me a letter apologizing for telling me on an international conference call that I was an obstacle to the company and in the way of progress? No.

Not only this, but I did a great deal of research on a project that some young kid from New Jersey was slacking on. I met him in CA at a convention and spent hours teaching him the subject. He then wrote paper almost identical to what I had taught him, with two other strange names and no credit to me at all. My boss told me that Bell Labs New Jersey folks had to be watched; they have a habit of stealing our work and publishing it under their own credit.

So I did like 80% of the research for a paper that another guy then published as if he was sole authority, plus a couple bosses that inevitably have to show up and smile for the cameras at the award presentations. He stayed longer than me because he was seen as the expert in that area due to publishing that paper.

Make of it what you will, but I’ve heard from “possibly” accurate sources that some of the research that was attributed to Bell Labs by Steven Hawkings involving radio waves and particles from space, might not have all been, let’s say, original work. I’m just saying I heard it when I was looking into some things by Hawkings I had read; libel attorneys hear this: I am not claiming it to be true.

BTW, did you know that Bell Labs invented the transistor, and then when the soon-to-be founder of Sony bought the rights to it, the Bell Labs execs thought they had found a sucker so they made a deal quickly. They thought this was some kookball Japanese dude with a big idea and had some money they could soak out of him. After they made the deal, they asked him what they intend to do with the “transistor.” He said, “make small radios.” The execs knew that it was quality, not size that mattered, so they were confident they had made the better end of the deal. Turns out size did matter, and portability changed the world.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Joysong:

Dear Darin,

I truly understand what you are saying, but the internet is not the best place to discuss these things. There are so few capable of directing you spiritually, other than these two saints. Stay with it, re-read the sections and pray for the Spirit’s guidance. I truly believe it will become clear all of a sudden, for God has wonderful ways of teaching you even through their obscurity and vagueness.

Basically, the rapture’s authenticity can be known by some of its spiritual after-effects, as she wrote. You could read that section again very intensely. I know a person who has experienced this, and told me that the greatest fear was that it might occur again, for the pain of being wrenched out of body is beyond anything earthly. St. John of the Cross concurs with this, when he wrote the line in The Spiritual Canticle, “Withdraw them, Beloved!” The soul asks her Beloved not to deal with her in this manner.

Safety, though, consists in trusting God, your Beloved, and in turning your mind beyond the experience into pure faith, as St. John teaches - this is for all supernatural phenomena except for contemplation.

Carole

I don’t understand the part about St. Teresa because I’m not that well versed in theology and don’t read a lot about saints.

I have read some of Dark Night, as my wife gave it to me once to read when she correctly thought I needed it.

As far as the internet thing, I’m not sure it’s such a bad idea.

My particular spiritual director was able to speak directly with me, but he got shipped out suddenly and unceremoniously after a year, and I’ve met with two since and they just aren’t the same.

There is almost no way for people who have mystical personal thoughts to share them. Few can guide us. However, if we get over the idea that this stuff really happens and it isn’t just theoretical, is should be no more frightening than if we really believed what was in the Bible can be frightening to discuss.

So if others can actually hear us, it may help us learn to quit shouting. Contemplatives like to shout, but ideally that shout would be silent. The temptation is to wish for it to be heard. If we trust, it will be heard. The more spiritual we become, the less we will need to discuss it, except as to help others with spiritual problems. Even then, spiritual problems can be worked through very ordinary means.

When I look out at people who don’t seem happy, even as they think I am or at least should be miserable given what I say, it hurts. I’m not unhappy no matter how much I like to whine. I wish I could help them. It reminds me of the song “God Save the People” from the play Godspell I saw in Chicago in eigth grade with Sister Anne’s class, in 1972 or 1973.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Oh, I forgot I’m supposed to use proper terminology.

I did not get “laid off” in September 2001, I was a “participant” in the FMA activity that was taking place.

FMA = Force Management Activity. :whacky:

Makes it sound like a textbook problem so the MBA’s can say it with a straight face.

Yeah, let’s see them manage THIS force. :bible1:

Alan

P.S. not resulting from 9/11. Notice was before 9/11, off payroll was after – so I got to be home to watch the towers with my son, who was home sick from school and called me to his room.

<baggage alert going off. Must log off and get to appointment for which I’m now late>

 

[DarinHamel]

Joysong:

Dear Darin,

I truly understand what you are saying, but the internet is not the best place to discuss these things. There are so few capable of directing you spiritually, other than these two saints. contemplation.

Carole

Unfortunately the internet is the only place to discuss these things I have found. Where else is there?

 

[DarinHamel]

AlanFromWichita:

Oh, I forgot I’m supposed to use proper terminology.

I did not get “laid off” in September 2001, I was a “participant” in the FMA activity that was taking place.

FMA = Force Management Activity. :whacky:

Makes it sound like a textbook problem so the MBA’s can say it with a straight face.

Yeah, let’s see them manage THIS force. :bible1:

Alan

P.S. not resulting from 9/11. Notice was before 9/11, off payroll was after – so I got to be home to watch the towers with my son, who was home sick from school and called me to his room.

<baggage alert going off. Must log off and get to appointment for which I’m now late>

You have a great sense of humor! So what do you do now?

 

[cheddarsox]

DarinHamel:

I wanted all those things you list. But not anymore. I needed them in my twenties and early thirties. Now I want to help others undergoing spiritual crisis. But I want to do it within the Catholic Church but it doesn’t seem the church wants me within it.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Catholic Church is the True Faith. There is one true God and there is one true Faith. Maybe we need an Order dedicated solely to spiritual direction?

I suspect the church does not think it is your place to do it, unless you go through the means already set up by the church, you could attend seminary, perhaps become a deacon, or theologian, or study to be a church psychologist, or some other such means, so the church knows what you are up to and that you will act in accordance with their teachings.

Understandably, the church is suspicious of people who have experiences that are beyond the norm, especially when they seem too eager to share them.

From my reading of the writings and lives of some of the saints, it looks as if there are places where these experiences can be worked into the church, but even a number of the saints suffered and were misunderstood for what they experienced. I do not know what the current tendency toward these experiences are even within religious communities. But human nature being what it is, and based on my own, and experiences of others I know, people are suspicious, often they are jealous, sometimes they will think you are showing off or off your rocker, or making it up, or seeking attention, or being fooled by the devil.

Because you are firm in the faith, and are determined to stay within the faith, I would urge you to , with the assistance of any priests or other religious who have been sympathetic, try to gain an audience with your bishop and with his help find a qualified spiritual advisor. This way, you will be able to operate under the sanction of the church. Understand, that you must submit obediently, and that may mean that you will be advised not to use your experiences in the way you hope to, but it is the way in which you will be able to operate within the church.

Because of your faith that the church is the true church, you can feel secure that your advisor will be acting as an agent of God, and helping you to use your unique experiences in the way that will best benefit you and the church.

Belief in the church means obedience to its teachings, even when it is hard. Even when it goes against reason, even when it feels contrary to experience.

cheddar

 

[cheddarsox]

Darin,

I hope I didn’t sound harsh and as if I didn’t understand. I do, but I also understand the teachings of the church, and even saints submitted to spiritual advisors, who often had no idea (seemingly) what to do with them, and no experience with what they were going through.

I am really torn when I read this thread.

cheddar

 

[DarinHamel]

cheddarsox:

Because of your faith that the church is the true church, you can feel secure that your advisor will be acting as an agent of God, and helping you to use your unique experiences in the way that will best benefit you and the church.

Belief in the church means obedience to its teachings, even when it is hard. Even when it goes against reason, even when it feels contrary to experience.

cheddar

Cheddar, I know you don’t believe that the Catholic church is the true church. But I have seen the truth of it while having out of body experiences and from the Vision of the Uncreated Light. I saw everything since the beginning of time and I saw that the Catholic church is central to the Divine Plan.

It is As Above, So Below. The Catholic church on earth is a reflection of what is going on in heaven. The Catholic church teaches that I must follow my conscience over the Church if it ever comes to that?

I believe the Church is perfect, but I also know its ministers are human like me. One of the first Apostles betrayed Jesus. The Chuch says I must follow my conscience even if that is contrary to what the Catholic church is telling me to do. I am not at that point yet, not even close.

If God wants me to start and Order and write a book on simplified mysticism, then nothing can stop me. If God isn’t calling me to do that I hope the Church stops me.

St Francis got a voice from heaven telling him to rebuild the church. I haven’t got that voice yet so I have normal doubts.

I value your imput, but I am dying to know something. Why are you posting on a Catholic site? Please don’t take offense, I am really curious.

 

[cheddarsox]

DarinHamel:

I value your imput, but I am dying to know something. Why are you posting on a Catholic site? Please don’t take offense, I am really curious.

good question, I came here many months back seeking some information. And I was moved to stay and offer (name removed by moderator)ut. Even though I am no longer Catholic, I studied and practiced the faith for many years and know a good deal of info about it. Also, my family is all catholic, so I have an interest in the church that my family of origin belongs to, and that was my faith of origin as well.

I feel I have things to offer this community, and when I cannot post in good conscience, I keep my fingers off the keyboard, because it is not my intent to cause others to leave their faith.

cheddar

 

[cheddarsox]

DarinHamel:

If God wants me to start and Order and write a book on simplified mysticism, then nothing can stop me. If God isn’t calling me to do that I hope the Church stops me.

St Francis got a voice from heaven telling him to rebuild the church. I haven’t got that voice yet so I have normal doubts.

I really don’t know at what point one is allowed to follow conscience over church teachings. I do know that I reached it and of course, the church didn’t agree. But, as you know, one must go with the divine.

I was going to sign off saying “peace to you” but I realized how ridiculous that was. Peace will do you no good at this point, and surely you will have all of eternity to enjoy peace. It sounds as if now peace is not in order, but the best to you! May the divine supply you amply for all that you are asked to do.

cheddar

 

[stbruno]

Padre Pio might be a good saint to ask for intercession in your prayers to find an answer. I wish I could offer more, but I will offer up your concerns when I attend daily mass this week. Keep praying!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

cheddarsox:

Darin,

I hope I didn’t sound harsh and as if I didn’t understand. I do, but I also understand the teachings of the church, and even saints submitted to spiritual advisors, who often had no idea (seemingly) what to do with them, and no experience with what they were going through.

I am really torn when I read this thread.

cheddar

The best of the Catholic teachers tell us that we should all strive to be saints.

The “Saints” are just the documented ones. The ones we can agree had something extraordinary going on, by definition.

I believe there are thousands of “undercover” saints walking the earth now, if not orders of magnitude more. A few will be canonized or recognized in some way, the rest will be forgotten about within a century.

What good does it do that we have the Holy Spirit within us if we do not strive to achieve Sainthood through our own personal talents and the devotions we like, in addition to the sacraments?

Some Catholics act like they’re walking on eggshells just to talk about their faith, for fear they might inadvertently say something that the Vatican wouldn’t back them up on. To me that discourages true seeking of truth, especially when combined with the desire never to make a fool out of yourself when someone “smarter” might be watching.

We are like animals with blinders, being told not to look to the side lest we stray. Well guess what? We’ve strayed and those same blinders are preventing us from seeing and helping each other back to the path. We think they are going to train us to run a maize like a rat and reward with cheese or punish with a shock, and that’s how we should learn our faith.

I am starting to learn faith through living every moment as if the Body of Christ not only from the Eucharist, but from the Word which I used to read and listen to recordings a great deal. That plus contemplative prayer under direction of a spiritual advisor, I get to the point where my “feelings” start to remind me of similar situations Christ faced, because I see similarities at very abstract levels. At some point, the fruits of the spirit started kicking in for me, and it’s mostly a matter of controlling my joy and mania, and still learning how to deal with fools without going catatonic.

Alan

 

[cheddarsox]

Well, having left the church, I am no longer a candidate for sainthood. I am reminded of that by well meaning folk with some regularity. And I do not mean sainthood with a capitol S.

And yet the divine has not abandoned me. And that seems to be the greatest of all the heresies I believe. That even while I am yet “lost” that the divine has not fled from me.

cheddar