F
fred_conty
Guest
I believe this is what Oprah Winfrey teaches now in her three books she sells…that we are god. That is new age stuff. Read more here.
newagedeception.com/new/shop/oprah-televangelist.html
- Status
newagedeception.com/new/shop/oprah-televangelist.html
F
frobert
Guest
The article is interesting. I was not aware of Oprah’s New Ageism but am familiar with most of the people mentioned in the article. It’s obvious that Oprah knows little about mysticism and much of what she writes about it is downright comical and could be dangerous to some people on the fringe. Unfortunately, with or without Oprah many of these same people will find something just as dangerous or more dangerous than reading her books.
“…it’s fairly likely that the next major wave of American Christianity will be aligned with liberal causes”
Pope Francis appears to be steering the CC in that direction.
F
fred_conty
Guest
From another article I’ve read there seems to be Catholics who are following her and others into “I am God” buisness, and that what we do is just an interpretation of ourselves which makes all that we do squared away. That there is no wrong just rainbow views of wrong which is right.
I wish priests would talk about this more from the pulpit so people are aware of what not to get involved in and what to stay away from. I have yet to hear anything on this subject and it is pervasive in our society.
Even some of the catholic parishes have brought people in to teach them “I am God” or the other “O” (other god) which is the same as being God. It is an offshoot of pantheism which says that everything is god or is just an extension of god.
May God bless us one and all.
F
frobert
Guest
I prefer sermons to be on the positive in opposition to the negative. I like that at my parish both priests tell stories and about helping our neighbors and how we can do more. I have a strong belief that our relationship to God is in direct proportion to doing his works.
As a church–getting back on topic–I would like it if there were more information on christian mysticism which is a path that appears to be have been neglected during the past and present century.
B
Bruised_Reed
Guest
I don’t know if you might be referring to me or not so this may not help. When I experienced my “vision” (I really don’t know what to call it - I don’t talk about it) I was going through a conversion. Basically, I was embracing the faith in which I was baptized and confirmed. At the time I felt like I was being wooed by God. Boyfriends give flowers; God gave me a vision
. Also, at the time I was involved with a Charismatic prayer group, and had a spiritual director. I was in an environment that was favorable to spiritual experiences and I had people to help me discern. But then I moved and also experienced some significant losses that rocked my world. I also didn’t find the same kind of church home I had before; it was drier and the main Charismatic group I encountered was unhealthy. At the time I told my mom I thought they were a cult and later I found I wasn’t far off. Knowing people can get that far off the path makes me cautious.Or the shorter version: I don’t think it’s wise to seek out this kind of thing. It happens or it doesn’t. I didn’t not seek it and know it was an awesome gift.
W
weirdcatholic
Guest
It is truly a blessing and amazing to hear all these stories. I guess though I was more looking for hearing someones mystical experience after practicing the prayer methods of john of the cross, teresa of avila, etc.
F
frobert
Guest
Thank you for your response. I wasn’t targeting anyone in particular, I was just curious. We all have our reasons why we would choose or not choose a mystical path. I had many false starts but until recently was frightened off by erroneous teaching from my youth.
I find joy in seeing others on this path. If you haven’t locked into St John and St Teresa take a look at St Francis De Sales – Introduction to Devout Life – which was written for the lay person.
THE STORY BEHIND THE STORY OF THE
INTRODUCTION TO THE DEVOUT LIFE
I am partial to St Francis De Sales as I was born on his feast day.
V
Vouthon
Guest
I think it is important to clarify what Holy Mother Church understands by the term “mysticism”.
Mysticism and mystical experiences have nothing to do with “paranormal” or “magical” powers. Visions, voices, insights, or powerful dreams are not mystical experiences but supernatural ones. True, mystics are more sensitive to higher realities than most people, which means that mystics are more likely too experience otherworldly, religious ecstasies than most but these do not constitute “mysticism”.
Mysticism is not about ecstatic experiences, visions, voices etc. That is esotericism, not mysticism.
Scholars call such supernatural experiences and powers such as bilocation “secondary mystical phenomena” if they can even be considered inferior aspects of mysticism at all; whereas the salient features of the experience are termed “concomitant mystical phenomena”. Some mystics such as Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity never once had a single vision or paranormal experience.
From a 20th century scholar of mysticism, WT Stace:
At their best these experiences can be corporeal symbols of deeper spiritual realities - like an artistic drawing of a hill. It is not the hill itself but it points in the direction of the hill, imitates the hill for a person who has never seen the hill, gives them an inkling of what the hill looks like and might motivate them to actually go visit the hill. If it does that, then the picture is useful. If one simply gazes at the picture, which in itself is an empty canvas with pencil or paint on it, and never goes in search of the real hill which it represents, then it is useless.
After much experience and deeper realization, this fades away entirely, if it ever arose at all.
If one attaches oneself to such experiences, one will get an experience but not God. Therein is the danger. The truly lucky people are those who never experience such things at all but have short snaps of pure, non-sensual mystical experiences. These are all the truly life-changing ones, and they don’t involve peculiar mental states, psychedelic-like light formations or whatever else but rather oneness with the ineffable beyond all forms, in a state of passive stillness.
Sometimes mystics who have had many paranormal experiences, when they then have their first taste of a proper mystical experience, they think nothing has happened. The mystical state is so subtle and so hidden, that it can at first appear less “extraordinary” than these visionary type experiences, until that is one participates more deeply in the unknowable.
(continued…)
Mysticism and mystical experiences have nothing to do with “paranormal” or “magical” powers. Visions, voices, insights, or powerful dreams are not mystical experiences but supernatural ones. True, mystics are more sensitive to higher realities than most people, which means that mystics are more likely too experience otherworldly, religious ecstasies than most but these do not constitute “mysticism”.
Mysticism is not about ecstatic experiences, visions, voices etc. That is esotericism, not mysticism.
Scholars call such supernatural experiences and powers such as bilocation “secondary mystical phenomena” if they can even be considered inferior aspects of mysticism at all; whereas the salient features of the experience are termed “concomitant mystical phenomena”. Some mystics such as Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity never once had a single vision or paranormal experience.
From a 20th century scholar of mysticism, WT Stace:
To go into a trance, to see visions, to levitate etc. - in De Condren’s words, “this is to receive the effects of God and his holy communications in a very animal and carnal way”. Strictly mystical experiences do not partake of anything paranormal like this, in the sense of imaginative, or ecstatic sensations and miraculous events. These are instances of a spiritual consciousness which has not yet matured, which is so overpowered by the awakening of this deep aspect of themselves, that it manifests itself on a very corporeal and strange level.
At their best these experiences can be corporeal symbols of deeper spiritual realities - like an artistic drawing of a hill. It is not the hill itself but it points in the direction of the hill, imitates the hill for a person who has never seen the hill, gives them an inkling of what the hill looks like and might motivate them to actually go visit the hill. If it does that, then the picture is useful. If one simply gazes at the picture, which in itself is an empty canvas with pencil or paint on it, and never goes in search of the real hill which it represents, then it is useless.
After much experience and deeper realization, this fades away entirely, if it ever arose at all.
If one attaches oneself to such experiences, one will get an experience but not God. Therein is the danger. The truly lucky people are those who never experience such things at all but have short snaps of pure, non-sensual mystical experiences. These are all the truly life-changing ones, and they don’t involve peculiar mental states, psychedelic-like light formations or whatever else but rather oneness with the ineffable beyond all forms, in a state of passive stillness.
Sometimes mystics who have had many paranormal experiences, when they then have their first taste of a proper mystical experience, they think nothing has happened. The mystical state is so subtle and so hidden, that it can at first appear less “extraordinary” than these visionary type experiences, until that is one participates more deeply in the unknowable.
(continued…)
V
Vouthon
Guest
A person who has visions, or paranormal experiences, is not necessarily a mystic, however these experiences can be part of the evolution of spiritual/mystical consciousness. For some people visions can lead to mystical states; yet for others ordinary experiences can lead to mystical states and some just experience mystical experiences directly without first going through visions, or mental stimulations.
In the lifetime of a mystic, the individual may have many spiritual experiences, ranging from visionary, to out-of-body, to other paranormal ones and mystical ones. A person might one minute have a fleeting glimpse of mystical union, followed by visionary experiences. This is common in the early phase of the spiritual life, particularly, when the person has not yet developed a habitual mystical state but rather has fleeting “flashes” of divinity.
Evelyn Underhill is equally correct in taking a more sympathetic view of paranormal phenomena:
In the lifetime of a mystic, the individual may have many spiritual experiences, ranging from visionary, to out-of-body, to other paranormal ones and mystical ones. A person might one minute have a fleeting glimpse of mystical union, followed by visionary experiences. This is common in the early phase of the spiritual life, particularly, when the person has not yet developed a habitual mystical state but rather has fleeting “flashes” of divinity.
Evelyn Underhill is equally correct in taking a more sympathetic view of paranormal phenomena:
W
weirdcatholic
Guest
I cannot thank you enough for providing such an in-depth understanding of mysticism and mystical experiences. Thank you thank you
W
weirdcatholic
Guest
Is there any work on mysticism that talks about this distinction that I could read?
F
frobert
Guest
Look up Evelyn Underhill on Amazon. There are several free kindle books that you access. Start with: Practical Mysticism. A little book for Normal People which you can also find on www.feedbooks.com in pdf format.
If you want to get a feel for mystical passionate love of God read the poems of Rumi who was a 13 century Sufi.
- Status