Mythology

[Faith1960]

I was reading the old HORUS VS JESUS thread today, which was about the similarities between mythology and Christianity. I’m not the OP of that thread but I too get confused by so much information that’s out there, especially since I haven’t studied mythology and am not nearly as knowledgeable about the history of Christianiy as so many people here are. Some of the links people provided made me feel worse rather than better. Isn’t it correct that these ancient Egyptian and Greek mythologies predate Christianity? And, if so, couldn’t Christianity have gotten some of it’s claims from mythology?

 

[Desertsailor]

I was reading the old HORUS VS JESUS thread today, which was about the similarities between mythology and Christianity. I’m not the OP of that thread but I too get confused by so much information that’s out there, especially since I haven’t studied mythology and am not nearly as knowledgeable about the history of Christianiy as so many people here are. Some of the links people provided made me feel worse rather than better. Isn’t it correct that these ancient Egyptian and Greek mythologies predate Christianity? And, if so, couldn’t Christianity have gotten some of it’s claims from mythology?

It’s more likely that the Egyptians and Greeks got their beliefs from the devil who already knew God’s plan.

 

[kepha1]

“The Egyptians had a trinity. They worshiped Osiris, Isis, and Horus, thousands of years before the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were known”
(Robert Ingersoll, Why I Am an Agnostic).

This is not true. The Egyptians had an Ennead—a pantheon of nine major gods and goddesses. Osiris, Isis, and Horus were simply three divinities in the pantheon who were closely related by marriage and blood (not surprising, since the Ennead itself was an extended family) and who figured in the same myth cycle. They did not represent the three persons of a single divine being (the Christian understanding of the Trinity). The claim of an Egyptian trinity is simply wrong. There is no parallel.
Is Catholicism Pagan?

 

[Faith1960]

“The Egyptians had a trinity. They worshiped Osiris, Isis, and Horus, thousands of years before the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were known”
(Robert Ingersoll, Why I Am an Agnostic).

This is not true. The Egyptians had an Ennead—a pantheon of nine major gods and goddesses. Osiris, Isis, and Horus were simply three divinities in the pantheon who were closely related by marriage and blood (not surprising, since the Ennead itself was an extended family) and who figured in the same myth cycle. They did not represent the three persons of a single divine being (the Christian understanding of the Trinity). The claim of an Egyptian trinity is simply wrong. There is no parallel.
Is Catholicism Pagan?

It’s not just the Trinity that I’m talking about, but this, for example:religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm If these comparisons between Horus and Jesus arae true, they sound close to the same story to me.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I may be wrong, but I don’t think Jesus cut Mary’s head off.
Maybe I am mixing up myths here.

But, Jesus never cut anyone’s head off, let alone his mother’s.

They may be in for worse than that, but that is not the point here.

 

[1ke]

I was reading the old HORUS VS JESUS thread today, which was about the similarities between mythology and Christianity. I’m not the OP of that thread but I too get confused by so much information that’s out there, especially since I haven’t studied mythology and am not nearly as knowledgeable about the history of Christianiy as so many people here are. Some of the links people provided made me feel worse rather than better.

(1) Do not use the internet as the source of your information on topics like this. Anyone, and I mean anyone, can put up a website claiming anything.

(2) If you really want to study mythology, do so using scholarly material from the library.

(3) It is up to you to become knowledgeable the hard way-- by studying.

Isn’t it correct that these ancient Egyptian and Greek mythologies predate Christianity?

Christianity, yes. Judaism, no.

And, if so, couldn’t Christianity have gotten some of it’s claims from mythology?

Similarity does not imply descent. The pyramids in Mexico and South America are similiar to those in Egypt. That doesn’t mean they are related in any way. It means two different societies both built pyramids.

 

[Faith1960]

(1) Do not use the internet as the source of your information on topics like this. Anyone, and I mean anyone, can put up a website claiming anything.

(2) If you really want to study mythology, do so using scholarly material from the library.

(3) It is up to you to become knowledgeable the hard way-- by studying.

As much as I hate to admit it, this stuff is WAAAAY over my head.

 

[1ke]

As much as I hate to admit it, this stuff is WAAAAY over my head.

no. it isn’t.

I learned the entire Greek, Egyptian, and Roman pantheon of Gods in 3rd grade.

I lived in the country. We had 3 television stations. Summer was very long. We also had a set of Encyclopedia Britannica from the 1950s. The encyclopedias beat out the limited tv options.

So, I read the encyclopedias and by the end of the summer, I knew all about Rome, Greece, Egypt, and their gods.

 

[Faith1960]

no. it isn’t.

I learned the entire Greek, Egyptian, and Roman pantheon of Gods in 3rd grade.

I lived in the country. We had 3 television stations. Summer was very long. We also had a set of Encyclopedia Britannica from the 1950s. The encyclopedias beat out the limited tv options.

So, I read the encyclopedias and by the end of the summer, I knew all about Rome, Greece, Egypt, and their gods.

I’d rather rely on those who already have knowledge in this area, which is why I posted the OP.

 

[1ke]

I’d rather rely on those who already have knowledge in this area, which is why I posted the OP.

That is sloth. Laziness on your part.

It is not our job to research this for you. You have a brain that God gave you. Use it.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

When I first heard the myth of Horus, I didn’t think it sounded anywhere even close to Jesus’s life.

I still don’t think that. Jesus was never chopped up into little pieces, spread throughout the land, and then put back together again by his wife.

 

[StrawberryJam]

That is sloth. Laziness on your part.

It is not our job to research this for you. You have a brain that God gave you. Use it.

Peter does say that it is your job as an evangelist to give a reason for your hope.

Was Peter wrong, or my interpretation of his words, or your inability to reply to this simple question?

 

[1ke]

Peter does say that it is your job as an evangelist to give a reason for your hope.

Was Peter wrong, or my interpretation of his words, or your inability to reply to this simple question?

Peter did not say that it is my job to refute every cockamamie website on the internet and spend copious amounts of time explaining the Egyptian pantheon of gods to someone who could pick up an encyclopedia and read it themselves.

I am happy to discuss the Catholic faith, as I think my nearly 12K posts on here indicate

But people must be responsible for doing reading on subjects they know nothing about-- for example the Egyptian and/or Greek pantheon of gds. Otherwise, the conversation will be quite short. CAF is not an appropriate platform to cover such a topic. I’ll be happy to talk about Horus, but not with someone who knows nothing about Horus and won’t even go read an encyclopedia to talk intelligently about the subject.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Peter did not say that it is my job to refute every cockamamie website on the internet and spend copious amounts of time explaining the Egyptian pantheon of gods to someone who could pick up an encyclopedia and read it themselves.

I am happy to discuss the Catholic faith, as I think my nearly 12K posts on here indicate

But people must be responsible for doing reading on subjects they know nothing about-- for example the Egyptian and/or Greek pantheon of gds. Otherwise, the conversation will be quite short. CAF is not an appropriate platform to cover such a topic. I’ll be happy to talk about Horus, but not with someone who knows nothing about Horus and won’t even go read an encyclopedia to talk intelligently about the subject.

That is an interesting view on evangelism.
I am getting to understand more about what it means to “instruct the ignorant”

 

[TheQuestioner]

That is an interesting view on evangelism.
I am getting to understand more about what it means to “instruct the ignorant”

haha I hope that is sarcasm.

Really though, I kind of agree though. The OP might need the answer to this question, but the bigger problem is his lack of initiative. It seems he would rather be spoon fed information and believe it as true (which is what got him into this situation in the first place) than look it up himself.

Sorry dude, no offense, but you gotta research Horus yourself. But I will tell you this much. No. Very little of this is true. Some of is simply coincidence (poor people were born in caves…hey man if you have no house, where else are you going to sleep really? It should be that obvious), and the Egyptians have no concept of angels. Other than that you gotta research it yourself. I learned much mythology through much of my life (it is kind of an interest of mine).

Try out your local library. That’s where I got most of my information. Wiki I wouldn’t trust, but you can try it. Still, your best option is the library reading a book on the Egyptian Pantheon.

 

[Hesychios]

Peter did not say that it is my job to refute every cockamamie website on the internet and spend copious amounts of time explaining the Egyptian pantheon of gods to someone

OK.

Let’s assume that you are right, it’s not your job.

But you opted in to the conversation. He has the right to ask, you have the right to ignore the question.

 

[Hesychios]

… Isn’t it correct that these ancient Egyptian and Greek mythologies predate Christianity?

Yes.

And, if so, couldn’t Christianity have gotten some of it’s claims from mythology?

Christianity is based upon the revelation of Christ passed to us from the Apostles. There is no room there for borrowing ideas from other religions, supernatural apparitions or philosophies, these would be dangerous developments.

Now the life of Christ, with His death and resurrection, is for us a historical fact, based upon our sources (the testimony of scripture) which for us is a reliable source. In other words, these aren’t just articles of belief, they are real events.

It is sometimes forgotten by critics that the pagans were seriously trying to destroy Christianity, specifically because they refused to worship these false gods (who were thought to sustain the empire). In an atmosphere of hostility and suppression the Christians were not open to the old cultish ideas which they had rejected and probably abhorred, they were risking death for Christ.

 

[Faith1960]

OK.

Let’s assume that you are right, it’s not your job.

But you opted in to the conversation. He has the right to ask, you have the right to ignore the question.

Thanks Hesychios.
p.s. I’m a woman.

 

[Faith1960]

Yes.
Christianity is based upon the revelation of Christ passed to us from the Apostles. There is no room there for borrowing ideas from other religions, supernatural apparitions or philosophies, these would be dangerous developments.

Now the life of Christ, with His death and resurrection, is for us a historical fact, based upon our sources (the testimony of scripture) which for us is a reliable source. In other words, these aren’t just articles of belief, they are real events.

It is sometimes forgotten by critics that the pagans were seriously trying to destroy Christianity, specifically because they refused to worship these false gods (who were thought to sustain the empire). In an atmosphere of hostility and suppression the Christians were not open to the old cultish ideas which they had rejected and probably abhorred, they were risking death for Christ.

Thanks again for your reply. I find this subject very overwhelming and thought that CAF, a site I’ve been using as one of many tools to learn and have been on for some time, would have some answers to the comparisons between the mythic figures and Christ.
The thought of trying to sift through books at the library, where I can’t even fathom where to begin seems like a lot of reading about a subject I’m not interested in, save for the parallels of Christ and the mythical subjects.
Slothful though I may be, if you or anyone else is willing to help me, I thank you in advance.

 

[kenofken]

You’re not crazy for asking, OP. There is not a single element in the mythological framework of Christ’s life which was not also found in earlier pagan deities. Usually more than one. The foretelling of their coming, the birth under a special star, visitation by wise men, virgin birth, a John the Baptist figure who was himself inevitably executed. Disciples (often, not always 12), miracles, healings, exorcisms, death on a piece of wood for humanity’s benefit. Resurrection.

Every major Christian holiday and many lesser feast days, are thinly veiled overlays of pre-existing pagan traditions. Christmas? Winter Soltice. Not even the church’s best speculation on the date of Jesus’s birth suggest midwinter. Easter? Beltane. All Souls Day (Samhain). That was a particulary weak and contrived overlay. There’s room for scholarly disagreement on the degree of parallels and details of course, but attempts to deny the whole thing are simply revisionist history.

It works because the people who could tell the other half of the story were usually put to death or “found” the light at the end of a sword. The interface between late paganism and early Christianity is far, far more complex than modern Christians, or pagans, are willing to allow. Even Christianity was not as monolithic as today’s church fathers would like you to believe. Early on, there were hundreds of radically different concepts of who and what Christ was. They too were silenced or killed in due course. Victors always get to declare their truths “inerrant.”

Be this all as it may, this does not mean Christianity had NOTHING original. The interpretation of what their god’s sacrifice meant are radically different. They assigned a real and universal value to individual life and freedom in a unique way, even if they rarely lived up to the ideal themselves.

Acknowledging the ancestry of one’s own tradition does not have to lessen it in any way. In fact there’s a school of thought which holds that Christians could reclaim the real power and beauty of myths if they reinterpreted their faith in the light of timeless metaphorical truths rather than literal facts which are often contradictory and scientifically absurd. I am not an advocate of this movement. I am pagan and have my own myths and gods and understandings. I merely put it forward for your consideration. You may also want to check out Tom Harpur’s “The Pagan Christ,” which is no doubt the source material for much of what you have been reading on that website. There is plenty of criticism of the scholarship underlining the book, but it explores the ideas at hand in some depth.

The best advice I can give you is to develop some critical thinking and research skills. Think for yourself. Don’t take what other posters or websites say at face value. Certainly don’t take my bull as gospel. You’ve chosen the path of the seeker. It’s all rocky and uphill, but very rewarding.