N.Y.'s Cuomo links storm, climate change

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meltzerboy said:
I’m a liberal Democrat. However, I think if Gov. Cuomo and Mayor Bloomberg are so worried about the effects of climate change (which I agree is a legitimate concern), then let some action be taken after the cleanup to rebuild the infrastructure of the NYC subway system, which is 112 years old. The subway cars have been revamped, but not the tunnels. I wonder what would have happened to NYC if Sandy had been a category 3, 4, or 5 hurricane? I realize such an immense project takes a lot of money, but it always seems we have money from the federal government in times of disaster or war, but rarely for the purpose of prevention. I recall the NYC blackout a few years ago and the talk at the time was that the electrical grids should be updated to prevent future occurrences. What has been done to insure the safety of the city and state since then? To my knowledge, nothing! We are in general a society that does relatively little until tragedy strikes, and, shortly afterward, we forget about the event and continue with our daily lives. I’m disgusted with both the Democrats and Republicans on the local, state, and federal levels. Rant over…
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I agree with you but I cannot conceive of the gargantuan effort it would take to update the NYC subway tunnels.
 
Maxirad said:
I don’t. Thankfully, Mr. Voris has given props to Pope Benedict XVI.
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Well if Benedict is Catholic enough for Voris he’s got to be Okay, because a heck of a lot of Bishops and Cardinals don’t seem to be.
 
meltzerboy said:
Yes, it would be a huge and costly undertaking but, I think, well worth it for future generations.
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It doesn’t have to be done all at once. Consider that the 2nd Avenue subway is under construction and they put in another set of tunnels a couple of years ago with a stop on Welfare Island (forgot the new name).
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
It doesn’t have to be done all at once. Consider that the 2nd Avenue subway is under construction and they put in another set of tunnels a couple of years ago with a stop on Welfare Island (forgot the new name).
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I was in Boston during the Big Dig and that was a big deal.
 
Quite frankly, I don’t consider myself to be in a position good enough to judge whether or not global warming is real. I guess my position on the issue is more or less that of Jesse Ventura’s. Check this out.
 
Maxirad said:
Quite frankly, I don’t consider myself to be in a position good enough to judge whether or not global warming is real. I guess my position on the issue is more or less that of Jesse Ventura’s. Check this out.
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But you continue posting the video of a non-expert?

BTW, I’m not even going to bother listening to what the wrestler has to say about any of it.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Let’s try this with different terms:
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The great thing about science is that it’s testable, and so far all testable data on the issue points to human influenced climate change. Voodoo, on the other hand, not scientifically verifiable.:rolleyes:
 
Blacksword said:
The great thing about science is that it’s testable, and so far all testable data on the issue points to human influenced climate change. Voodoo, on the other hand, not scientifically verifiable.:rolleyes:
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Biased. There is clear debate among scientists. If one is wrong, what do we risk?
 
Maxirad said:
Quite frankly, I don’t consider myself to be in a position good enough to judge whether or not global warming is real. I guess my position on the issue is more or less that of Jesse Ventura’s. Check this out.
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In what other areas of life or the natural sciences do you find Jesse “The Body” Ventura to be an authority? I watched him wrestle as a little kid, didn’t know he’d obtained doctorate degrees in climate science since leaving the ring!
 
meltzerboy said:
I’m a liberal Democrat. However, I think if Gov. Cuomo and Mayor Bloomberg are so worried about the effects of climate change (which I agree is a legitimate concern), then let some action be taken after the cleanup to rebuild the infrastructure of the NYC subway system, which is 112 years old. The subway cars have been revamped, but not the tunnels. I wonder what would have happened to NYC if Sandy had been a category 3, 4, or 5 hurricane?** I realize such an immense project takes a lot of money, but it always seems we have money from the federal government in times of disaster or war, but rarely for the purpose of prevention. **I recall the NYC blackout a few years ago, and the talk at the time was that the electrical grids should be updated to prevent future occurrences. What has been done to insure the safety of the city and state since then? To my knowledge, nothing! We are in general a society that does relatively little until tragedy strikes, and, shortly afterward, we forget about the event and continue with our daily lives. I’m disgusted with both the Democrats and Republicans on the local, state, and federal levels. Rant over…
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Because it is one thing if someone’s life is in danger. But quite another if they just want a cheap way to get to work.

If New York needs to overhaul the subway system, how about upping the cost to ride the subway. That way the people paying for the overhaul are the people that will benefit from the overhaul.
 
Oh, there is climate change all right.

It is caused by man.

By man’s sins that is.
 
Well, Michael Voris is right. Of course, Our Holy Father says it best, all the time, everywhere!!

Enviromentalists tend to be crazy.

I love You Pappa Benedict!!! 👍👍
 
maryjk said:
Because it is one thing if someone’s life is in danger. But quite another if they just want a cheap way to get to work.

If New York needs to overhaul the subway system, how about upping the cost to ride the subway. That way the people paying for the overhaul are the people that will benefit from the overhaul.
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They’ve been upping the cost to ride the subway since its inception. That alone won’t cover the expenses of a total renovation. The problem is city, state, and federal government are all bankrupt, or nearly so. BTW, about 5 million out of 8 million NY’ers use the subway on a daily basis; it’s the lifeline of the city. I agree about funds for people whose lives are in danger and support FEMA. But I must also share some of the sentiment expressed by Romney (never thought I’d say this), that the federal government is overburdened. And you know the saying: “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” (Benjamin Franklin). Overhauling the subway system, rather than patch jobs, might very well save money in the long-term as well as lives.

But Mayor Bloomberg’s priority seems to be ensuring that the NYC Marathon is on schedule this Sunday. Meanwhile, downtown Manhattan is still without power and residents are pulling bodies out of the water in Staten Island with no help from the city.
 
meltzerboy said:
They’ve been upping the cost to ride the subway since its inception. That alone won’t cover the expenses of a total renovation. The problem is city, state, and federal government are all bankrupt, or nearly so. BTW, about 5 million out of 8 million NY’ers use the subway on a daily basis; it’s the lifeline of the city. I agree about funds for people whose lives are in danger and support FEMA. But I must also share some of the sentiment expressed by Romney (never thought I’d say this), that the federal government is overburdened. And you know the saying: “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” (Benjamin Franklin). Overhauling the subway system, rather than patch jobs, might very well save money in the long-term as well as lives.

But Mayor Bloomberg’s priority seems to be ensuring that the NYC Marathon is on schedule this Sunday. Meanwhile, downtown Manhattan is still without power and residents are pulling bodies out of the water in Staten Island with no help from the city.
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Yes, the federal government is overburdened. So overburdened that it shouldn’t have to pay for New Yorkers to get to work. 🤷

Sorry if 5 million people are using the subway every day, there should be more than enough money to revamp whatever needs revamped. Either raise the price or look at the budget to see where they are bleeding money.
 
Maxirad said:
sfgate.com/science/article/N-Y-s-Cuomo-links-storm-climate-change-3998876.php
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According to climate science one cannot link a single weather event to climate change, since climate and climate change are the sum total or average of all weather events.

However, I think Cuomo (or Bloomberg) made the comment we have had two 100-year events in 2 years in the northern east coast area, ergo it’s probably due to climate change. That’s a bit more along the lines of how a scientist may view it. Along with a hurricane slamming into Brazil several years ago – an unheard of event. Along with record numbers of regional droughts, wildfires, floods, and other knock-on effects of CC.

In addition they would point out that a necessary (but not sufficient) cause for a hurricane is warm water, and it is known CC is contributing to that. The fact that searise is happening around the world and in some places, like the US east coast, is even higher than average, would make the surge worse. As would the increased precip that comes with CC. As would the a negative arctic oscillation weather pattern, which brought the storm westward instead of eastward, which some climate scientists are saying are being increased by climate change. (These neg AOs also bring more freq killing freezes to my area and N. Mexico, causing $billions in winter crop losses.) The fact that it happened during high tide was just very bad luck.

However, we also have to realize that science is by nature reticent in its claims. Scientists strive to avoid the FALSE POSITIVE of making untrue claims so as to protect their reputations, or people might not believe them. They start from the “null hypothesis” of saying CC is not happening, and it is not increasing hurricane intensity, geographic distribution or out-of-season timing, and only when they get plenty of evidence to the contrary (which they have gotten in the past 17 years, and it’s building up and becoming evermore robust) do they say CC is happening and is having this or that impact.

As laypersons and policy-makers concerned about life, limb and property, Cuomo and we would be more interested in avoiding the FALSE NEGATIVE of failing to address a true serious problem. We would want to follow the “research hypothesis” of assuming CC is upon us and we need to mitigate it (by reducing our greenhouse gas emissions), and bec that would save us lots of money (I speak from personal experience & research), we could then use those savings for adaptation measures, such as building better subways & seawalls, etc.

We also have to realize that Voris and Ventura are NOT climate scientists. Neither am I, but if you look into the science carefully I think you will find what I’m saying is fairly correct.

Upshot, I don’t consider it wrong that Cuomo attributed Sandy’s intensity, pattern, and destruction to CC. Rightly or wrongly I’ve been attributing all the big hurricanes since Hurricane Andrew back in 1992 in Florida to CC partly to my failure to mitigate CC as I should, tho it wasn’t until 2005 that scientists were able to say that CC had been increasing hurricane/cyclone intensity worldwide for the past 30 years.

I even sent a personal note to a Seccular Carmelite friend in Alabama, whose roof was blown away and suffered heave property losses during Hurricane Rita in 2005, and told him I had started mitigating CC some 15 years earlier so as to help reduce harms to people like him, and praying that others would also do so. It did give him some tiny solace.

If there is anyone here at CAF who has suffered from Sandy, other hurricanes/storms, recent wildfires, droughts, floods, tropical disease spread, higher food prices, or the many other knock-on effects from climate change, I would like to you know that I have had you in my heart for over 22 years, in my prayers and in my efforts to mitigate climate change and it’s knock on effects. I am very sorry that it was not enough. I will continue to hold you in my heart and in my prayers.
 
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