Because last night I was really tired and slept after coming home from work, instead of logging on
First you may look into the gospels about what Christ says about the body (during the washing of the feet, and when we eat with dirty hands, as well as Paul) and we find that some see the dedication to the purification of the body as making a sort of religion out of the body. Catholics are concerned with becoming likened to Christ. Unless the practitioner of Yoga was to throw away all of the Sufic (is this correct?) or Hindu mythology, and adapt it to Christian meditation, then it wouldn’t pair very well to dedicate oneself to a spirtuality other than the one prescribed in Christianity.
So the question is, why can’t Yoga be for Christians (as it is for Hindus) an exercise designed to bring the mind and body into better harmony with each other? Why is Yoga less legitimate than other physical practices such as fasting, bowing/prostrations/kneeling, burning incense, counting Rosary beads, etc.? All of these other physical activities also have pagan origins.
Good point.
Many people who practice Yoga have physical conditions that completely prevent them from engaging in high-impact activities such as running or soccer.
I just don´t know if an hour without religion is that beneficial.
It´s no that exercise is bad, and even further, that meditation is bad. But the Catholic idea is that, for example, the rosary, has an origin in God, and became sactified beyond its pagan use, which has a gaze toward nature as the mover, and not God.
I agree. I just don’t see how this is a mark against Yoga more than anything else.
I’m not quite sure what the last sentence means. I don’t agree with many Christian defenders of yoga who say that you can separate the physical part from the “spiritual component.” The whole point of yoga is to unite the two. I agree that more work needs to be done by Christians on just how Christians can use yoga (for both physical and spiritual benefit). However, some such work has been done–there’s a Catholic priest (French, I believe, though I forget his name) who wrote a book on Christian Yoga. (And this was a fairly old book–I know many folks on this board are understandably wary of some more recent attempt by Catholics to incorporate Eastern spirituality.)
And I wasn’t disputing that.
Absolutely. It isn’t an either/or. And the same is true for the way yoga is used in Hinduism. Westerners have turned it into an end in itself, but from what I understand Hindus see yoga as a preparation for union with God. Of course, Hindus see God as made known through many deities, while we recognize only the Triune God made known in Jesus Christ. I’m not disputing that there are serious issues arising from that difference. But claims by some Christians that there are other fundamental differences that make yoga unusable by Christians often seem to stem either from a simplistic misunderstanding of Hinduism (reducing it to an impersonal pantheism), or a distorted and narrowed vision of Christianity (particularly disparaging the body and denying the presence of God in the physical world).
That may be true or false depending on what you mean by it. St. Irenaeus believed that Satan was lying when he claimed to have the power to give the kingdoms of the world to anyone he chose. I’d prefer to say that the earth is a battleground. There is a structure of principalities and powers that is dominated by Satan, but there is also (beyond and behind that) the universe itself which is created by God and hence ontologically good. To say otherwise is Manicheanism.
Sure. But as soon as you abandon straightforward moral criteria for determining what is such a “distraction” you wind up playing mind games with the devil, which is a very bad idea. In other words, a “distraction” is whatever detracts from faith, hope, and charity. Whatever serves faith, hope, and charity is not a “distraction.” This isn’t always simple to apply, but it’s simple in principle.
And of course I did not suggest that this was the case.
Absolutely. Preparatory disciplines such as yoga are only of use if subordinated to the life of prayer and the works of charity. If treated as ends in themselves (which many Westerners do), they may simply serve the ego. We have no disagreement there.
No disagreement there. And as I said, some such work has been and is being done. But there’s certainly need for a good deal more.
That’s a gnostic misunderstanding of Scripture, refuted by Irenaeus in the 2nd century (I keep citing him simply because his refutation of gnosticism is extremely relevant, and so much of what he refuted nonetheless managed to creep into Christian tradition). The “flesh” of which St. Paul speaks is not the physical body. To say that would require you to deny the resurrection of the body, which would make you a heretic. I believe that the division between soul and body that we experience in this life is a result of the Fall and will be overcome in the resurrection. And I’m thoroughly in line with Christian tradition in saying this. The only difference is that the traditional language would focus more on the subjection of the soul to the body. I have no problem putting it that way either. I’m not disputing that the soul is the nobler part and that there’s a hierarchical relationship between soul and body. But we have too often (following that same gnostic misunderstanding of Paul) used that language to imply that the relationship is adversarial. Of course that is the case to some extent in this life. But the goal is to overcome that opposition between soul and body, by bringing both into harmony with God. I don’t claim for yoga more than a modest role in helping prepare the way for that union. But when you say that “uniting soul and body” is contrary to Catholic teaching, you are (I’m firmly convinced) stating the exact opposite of the truth. It is the opposition of soul and body that is heretical, and has been condemned since the earliest days of the Church.
But of course that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
Actually, the error of the Middle Ages (in my view) was reducing the role of the devil in cosmology (particularly in the doctrine of the Atonement) which in the later Middle Ages and early modern era led to an unhealthy reaction in the form of paranoia concerning witchcraft. That isn’t really relevant to the main issue, of course . . . .
Well, frankly it seems to me so far that where we differ (I’m not convinced that our differences are very extensive, actually) I have the Christian tradition on my side and you are expressing a view more in line with Gnosticism or Manicheanism. But of course we all tend to read the tradition somewhat selectively, and I welcome correction where I am wrong.
I don’t think I said opposition. I am saying a difference. There is a reason why our souls are different from our bodies, and while the soul is not new in heaven, the body is. Paul’s “flesh” must mean both the body and the human appetite, for they are almost one in the same. As far as things resulting from the fall, I think that was cleaned up with Baptism.
This is neither here nor there…please don’t make assumptions.
Well, the Catholic teaching is that our goal is consciousness via the sacraments (check out Karl Adam), not unconsciousness.
Once again, you are assuming that someone who is concerned with Yoga is necessarily anti-mystic. In fact, the existence of Catholic mysticism is enough for some to understand that “visions” and such are gifts of the Holy Spirit, not something done by letting go. Sor Juana Inez de la Cruz claimed to be under some sort of possession by the Spirit, not to have just “let go.” The “letting go” is more the gnostic way, in the sense that they awaited their own vision of Christ.
I did not say mental vigilance, I suggested consciousness, that is, awareness. The fact that you eschewed the prior argument regarding over-exertion is enough for me to realize that you don’t want to apply your mind to your faith in a way that’s directed. That’s your choice.
No, the only difference is that you are Episcopalian, and I am Catholic. That is a big one. I appreciate your acknowledgement of our agreements, but those assumptions will get us all in trouble if you don’t try to clarify them. The Christian Tradition is that expounded through the Catholic Church, and represented in scipture and the Catechism.
