Name 1 who used “Scripture Alone”

[Stephen_C]

Ok got that out of my system…feel better now.

 

[Reformed1]

Please name 1 human being, in the history of mankind, who has used “Scripture Alone” to learn how to be saved? This person must have never heard or learned anything about salvation from another human being, like a parent, preacher, friend, a bible translator, a bible scholar, etc.

If there has never been 1 person to learn all they need to know about salvation from reading “Scripture Alone”, then how can Scripture be totally sufficient?

This is a gross mis-representation of “sola scriptura”.

Your post is the equivalent of my friends laughing at your church for teaching that a man can work his way into heaven.

 

[JOE_OBERR]

No, under SS it is obvious because God speaks to the individual believer.

If it is & was so obvious please name one person who knew the final canon of Scripture prior to Pope St. Damasus I defining it in 382.

But even if there was one what good would it have done him as Jesus said we would be saved if we believed the gospel as preached by his apostles, and were baptized (Mt 16:15-16). He didn’t say we’d be saved by listening to God speaking to individual believers. That’s a “false” gospel, one based on traditions of men which contradict God’s holy inspired Word in Apostolic Tradition and Scripture.

Joe

 

[dal11]

Yes, but the church have really good quessers or their infalible. Without saying the church is infalible in it’s canon of scripture you can only say I THINK this is the word of god.

 

[tdgesq]

No, under SS it is obvious because God speaks to the individual believer.

I have always been interested in understanding precisely how this works. I know you don’t mean that the Holy Spirit actually whispers the answer in the believer’s ear, but what exactly do you mean? No doubt, I pray for a better understanding of the Scriptures, but I guess I’m expecting that it will come to me in the form that we would normally call knowledge - justified true belief.

 

[Truthstalker]

This is a gross mis-representation of “sola scriptura”.

Your post is the equivalent of my friends laughing at your church for teaching that a man can work his way into heaven.

See post 5. You parallel mine.

 

[Truthstalker]

If it is & was so obvious please name one person who knew the final canon of Scripture prior to Pope St. Damasus I defining it in 382. Jesus Christ.

But even if there was one what good would it have done him as Jesus said we would be saved if we believed the gospel as preached by his apostles, and were baptized (Mt 16:15-16). He didn’t say we’d be saved by listening to God speaking to individual believers. That’s a “false” gospel, one based on traditions of men which contradict God’s holy inspired Word in Apostolic Tradition and Scripture. These issues are beyond the scope of this thread.

Joe

 

[Truthstalker]

Yes, but the church have really good quessers or their infalible. Without saying the church is infalible in it’s canon of scripture you can only say I THINK this is the word of god.

As Steven_C pointed out, we’re getting into a circular argument.

Under SS, the church is not necessary to have valid Scripture.

 

[Reformed1]

See post 5. You parallel mine.

The first post is so bad that your comments are worth paralleling.

 

[Truthstalker]

I have always been interested in understanding precisely how this works. I know you don’t mean that the Holy Spirit actually whispers the answer in the believer’s ear, but what exactly do you mean? No doubt, I pray for a better understanding of the Scriptures, but I guess I’m expecting that it will come to me in the form that we would normally call knowledge - justified true belief.

That’s it.

 

[tdgesq]

That’s it.

Is there anyway to verify when this happens, from the perspective of both the individual whisper recipient and those who are being asked to believe what was whispered?

 

[tdgesq]

Under SS, the church is not necessary to have valid Scripture.

That is correct in one sense, but incorrect in another. The Christian Church wrote the New Testament Scriptures, regardless of whether we identify it with the modern day Roman Catholic Church or not. The Christian Church was necessary to have Scripture.

You are right though that the Catholic Church does not make Scripture inspired. God does that. He just didn’t identify which of all of those early Christian writings were inspired by Him in the writings themselves.

 

[Stephen_C]

Ok,
Here is my simple and uncomplicated take on this…
We have the Church (Catholic with a capital C Visible) founded by Jesus and the keys given to Peter. These keys were passed on unbroken though apostolic secession so for though 2006. Since we all know Jesus keeps his promise this Church will continue go on unbroken until Jesus comes back to take Visable control again. It was the Church which preached the gospel those first 300 years. It was the Church which (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit) put together our Bible. At that time 300ish AD there was only one Church. So there was no need (they thought) to add the owner’s manual section to the Bible. That section was the Church. The sole authority an all matters pertaining to faith and morals. So from 300ish AD on we have had apostolic tradition and Church’s magisterium (teaching authority) to help us understand the Bible and guide us as Christians. It was never meant to be Bible alone or SS. All of the bible is the truth, but not all of the truth. I wont go into the reformation and SS. But if you brake away and rebel from the Church…you are only left with one on piece of the truth with no owner’s manual included…

 

[Stephen_C]

So to answer the OP’s question. Yes you can gain salvation with SS. Even though it is only part of the truth. Why? Because that is what the Church teaches. And I truly believe in all that the Church teaches. I may not understand all, but I do believe.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Please name 1 human being, in the history of mankind, who has used “Scripture Alone” to learn how to be saved? This person must have never heard or learned anything about salvation from another human being, like a parent, preacher, friend, a bible translator, a bible scholar, etc.

If there has never been 1 person to learn all they need to know about salvation from reading “Scripture Alone”, then how can Scripture be totally sufficient?

Jesus Christ, perhaps ? If you’re thinking of others, who need His Salvation - I have no idea.​

Scripture is sufficient for its purpose, & for the Church - but not for the perversity of men. God’s grace alone can overcome that No power on earth can prevail against human perversity; man always finds excellent reasons to ignore the revealed Will of God, whether it come through the Bible, conscience, the Church, or any other means. God is our only Saviour from others, & from ourselves ##

 

[The_Augustinian]

The only solution is the same as under Scripture plus Tradition: God must be trusted to back the system, and guide one into all truth. If you believe God guides the Catholic Church and is His agent of mediation of His truth on the earth, you are a Catholic. If you believe God guides through the Scripture by His Spirit to the believer, you are a Protestant.

So, do you think that it ultimately is a matter of faith to Catholics and Protestants? Also, I can’t really imagine Christianity without either the Church or the Scripture; they aren’t mutally exclusive, wouldn’t you agree?

 

[mo3]

What is going on in the church is so incredibly complex and mysterious, with the Catholic Church and many Protestants moving towards each other in a thaw that hasn’t been seen since the Reformation, is something I am trying to get a hold of.

“The whole counsel of God, revealed in the Scriptures”: even if that is all there is, it is more than enough to fill the lifetimes of all humans who have ever lived or who ever will live. Personally I reel when I think of the concept. I have enough trouble with the little I understand. It’s like I have my own little bowl of oatmeal that fills me up, and I discover that the universe is full of oatmeal for all time. It’s like I cut out a paper doll from a piece of paper and think that is a man, and then discover a world populated by billions of three-dimensional, living, thinking, hoping people in incredible diversity. Like ordering a plain old hot dog and discovering I have 75,000,000 choices. “The whole counsel of God”: all His wisdom, higher, deeper, wiser, stronger than anything we can imagine, revealed to us. Awesome.

I agree with this. There is something happening. These intense forums are evidence that ALL CHRISTIANS are seeking the truth. There is so much for us to learn and understand.

 

[Fidelis]

Originally Posted by **Fidelis **
That does not answer the question. To use only one example, if the Holy Spirit, through the Bible, tells one believer he is saved by baptism, but tells another believer with the same Bible he is not, it cannot be true for one and not the other. Who’s right? Who decides?

In SS, God decides.

Originally Posted by **Fidelis **
Yeah but…That does not answer the question. To use only one example, if the Holy Spirit, through the Bible, tells one believer he is saved by baptism, but tells another believer with the same Bible he is not, it cannot be true for one and not the other. Who’s right? Who decides?

In SS, God decides.

Originally Posted by **Fidelis **
Yeah but…That does not answer the question. To use only one example, if the Holy Spirit, through the Bible, tells one believer he is saved by baptism, but tells another believer with the same Bible he is not, it cannot be true for one and not the other. Who’s right? Who decides?

In SS, God decides.

Originally Posted by **Fidelis **
Yeah but…That does not answer the question. To use only one example, if the Holy Spirit, through the Bible, tells one believer he is saved by baptism, but tells another believer with the same Bible he is not, it cannot be true for one and not the other. Who’s right? Who decides?

In SS, God decides.

Originally Posted by **Fidelis **
Yeah but…That does not answer the question. To use only one example, if the Holy Spirit, through the Bible, tells one believer he is saved by baptism, but tells another believer with the same Bible he is not, it cannot be true for one and not the other. Who’s right? Who decides?

In SS, God decides.

:banghead:

 

[mo3]

This is a gross mis-representation of “sola scriptura”.

Your post is the equivalent of my friends laughing at your church for teaching that a man can work his way into heaven.

Please see this website: carm.org/catholic/biblesufficient.htm The title of the page is: “Is the Bible Alone Sufficient for Spiritual Truth?” This is how SS is very often presented.

How can one clearly separate final authority from sufficiency of SS? Someone has to interpret scripture as it is not easy to understand. How can there be so many different interpretations? They can’t all be true. Once different interpretations have produced different truths, the basis of SS becomes illogical.

 

[mo3]

:banghead:

I don’t understand your logic. Anyone can say “God decides”. This is not an answer. I can say “God has decided” that the Catholic Church is the church Jesus Christ has started. You should accept this statement because “God has decided”.

How does one know what God has decided?