Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).

[kujo313]

kujo313, how do you know which of the historians to trust? How do you know that the ones that support a late date for the Gospels are wrong?

Ok, ok. Let’s put aside all historians.

I’ll support that One who fulfilled all the Law and Prophets. I put my faith in Jesus to get to Heaven and be one with God. There is no other way. The disciples followed His teachings as he opened the Scriptures to them and showed Himself in Scripture.

That is that.

Outside of focus (Jesus), things get blurry. Even to think of other people mentioned in the Bible, it’s still outside of the One who alone qualifies to be the Messiah.

IF there is a congregation of people who follow His teachings, then I’ll go there. So far, I’ve found one.

 

[lak611]

Ok, ok. Let’s put aside all historians.

I’ll support that One who fulfilled all the Law and Prophets. I put my faith in Jesus to get to Heaven and be one with God. There is no other way. The disciples followed His teachings as he opened the Scriptures to them and showed Himself in Scripture.

That is that.

Outside of focus (Jesus), things get blurry. Even to think of other people mentioned in the Bible, it’s still outside of the One who alone qualifies to be the Messiah.

IF there is a congregation of people who follow His teachings, then I’ll go there. So far, I’ve found one.

Where did your Bible come from? Who decided what should or should not be in it?

 

[Mommyof02green]

I just find the following interesting:

Actually, I put my trust in Biblical Historians and archeologists. They studied the names mentioned in the writings to know approximately when they was written.

Okay so,

kujo313, how do you know which of the historians to trust? How do you know that the ones that support a late date for the Gospels are wrong?

Ok, ok. Let’s put aside all historians.

Fine we will put them aside for the moment.

I’ll support that One who fulfilled all the Law and Prophets. I put my faith in Jesus to get to Heaven and be one with God. There is no other way. The disciples followed His teachings as he opened the Scriptures to them and showed Himself in Scripture.

Jesus is the way to Heaven. I totally agree with you here.

Outside of focus (Jesus), things get blurry. ** Even to think of other people mentioned in the Bible, it’s still outside of the One who alone qualifies to be the Messiah.**

Okay, but then how to you explain what you said earlier in this thread?

The Scriptures I want to focus on are written in red letters meaning the words of Jesus.

It’s a good thing for you that they’re written in red. That way, you can ignore them easier.

I like to focus on not only the red letters, but to what the people around Him did after He spoke.

So you like to focus on the people around Him. But why do you do this? By your own definition that is taking the focus away from Christ.

 

[Contarini]

Actually, I put my trust in Biblical Historians and archeologists. They studied the names mentioned in the writings to know approximately when they was written.

And they have, on the whole, concluded that 2 Peter was not by Peter and was written in the second century.

Why do you disbelieve them?

For example, the Gosple of Thomas was proven to be false because it mentioned 2nd century leaders that was around AFTER Thomas died.

I believe you are wrong there. I don’t think the Gospel of Thomas mentions any second-century leaders. And in fact some scholars think it may contain authentic material–which is as much as they are willing to grant concerning the other Gospels.

If the “church” says that parts of the New Testament is not correct, then why did they include it?

I never said that it did. I am talking about what “Biblical historians” say. I explicitly said that I am willing to reject scholarly conclusions that are too skeptical, because I trust the Church. But since you don’t trust the Church, why don’t you agree with the skeptical conclusions of these “Biblical historians” whom you say you do trust?

Edwin

 

[Lively_Stone]

The doctrines of the Catholic Church not stated are revealed by the Holy Spirit hence Jesus told the Apostle, the Spirit of Truth will guide you in all truth.

The Bible back then were not compelled together. They were scattered throughout the ancient word and were written in Parchments or Scrolls. It was the Church in the Council of Hippo and Council of Carthage in 396 that declared the 27 NT part of the Canon of Scripture.

The Church was before the Bible we see today was compiled. How do we know this? Well, when Saul was persecuting the Church, Jesus said, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”

The Church is what Saul before his conversion was persecuting. The fallacy that Only the Bible is the Sole Authority is not even stated in the Scripture itself. The Scripture said that the pillar and bulwark of the Truth is Church, not the Bible. For without the Church, there would not be a Bible we have today.

At the time there were over 50 Gospels and the Church only accepted 4 Gospels, in addition with the Epistles of Paul, Peter, James, and Jude.

St. Augustine state it best.

"I would not believe the Gospel unless moved thereto by the authority of the Church. - (Contra Epis. Manich., Fund., n 6)

UH! HUH! WHAT?

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Wow at lot of Protestant bias in your post my friend. Didn’t you know the Church did not have the concept of the Trinity until 325 AD announced in the Council of Nicea, or that there was Biblical Canon until the Council of Hippo 393 and Carthage 396 AD, which included all the Deutrocanonical Books and 27 NT text?

All of these are NOT teachings of Christ. If anybody declares these as infallible, then they are listening to a deceiving spirit and not the Holy Spirit. Paul says to keep “traditions” as he taught. Sure, he says that Jesus was born of a woman, but that was all.
Finally, if the catholic church put the Bible together, why not add those books that lifted up Mary? Why not mention those books who honored her more than the books in the Bible?
What is written is all that we need to know because the center of our focus should be on Christ: the ONLY One who fulfills all the Law and the Prophets. The Alpa and Omega.

They are the teaching of Jesus Christ. If they were not, then why my friend Jesus commanded to Peter and then to the Apostles, “Whatever you bind on earth shall be bind in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loose in heaven.” or upon the resurrection, Jesus breathed on them, "Received the Holy Spirit, whoever sin you forgiven they are forgiven whatever you retain they shall be retain?

Jesus also said, "As the Father have sent me, so I sent you? How did the Father send Jesus? God, the Father send the Jesus granted Him Authority, likewise Jesus granted Authority to the Apostles, for they cast demons in His Name, heal the sick and raise the dead in His Name.

My friend, history disproves your claims for they contain partial truths/half truths. The Catholic Church did compelled the Bible we see today until the Protestants slowly remove them by early 1600s.

Jesus also said if there are any disagreement among you, you take it to the Church. He did not say take it to the Scripture.

Amen

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Wow at lot of Protestant bias in your post my friend. Didn’t you know the Church did not have the concept of the Trinity until 325 AD announced in the Council of Nicea, or that there was Biblical Canon until the Council of Hippo 393 and Carthage 396 AD, which included all the Deutrocanonical Books and 27 NT text?

All of these are NOT teachings of Christ. If anybody declares these as infallible, then they are listening to a deceiving spirit and not the Holy Spirit. Paul says to keep “traditions” as he taught. Sure, he says that Jesus was born of a woman, but that was all.
Finally, if the catholic church put the Bible together, why not add those books that lifted up Mary? Why not mention those books who honored her more than the books in the Bible?
What is written is all that we need to know because the center of our focus should be on Christ: the ONLY One who fulfills all the Law and the Prophets. The Alpa and Omega.

They are the teaching of Jesus Christ. If they were not, then why my friend Jesus commanded to Peter and then to the Apostles, “Whatever you bind on earth shall be bind in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loose in heaven.” or upon the resurrection, Jesus breathed on them, "Received the Holy Spirit, whoever sin you forgiven they are forgiven whatever you retain they shall be retain?

Jesus also said, "As the Father have sent me, so I sent you? How did the Father send Jesus? God, the Father send the Jesus granted Him Authority, likewise Jesus granted Authority to the Apostles, for they cast demons in His Name, heal the sick and raise the dead in His Name.

My friend, history disproves your claims for they contain partial truths/half truths. The Catholic Church did compelled the Bible we see today until the Protestants slowly remove them by early 1600s.

Jesus also said if there are any disagreement among you, you take it to the Church. He did not say take it to the Scripture.

Amen

 

[Jedda]

Jedda, Jesus is the reason you can feel the “oneness” with God. While Jesus was walking the planet 2000 years ago, He said that God is a Spirit and that we must worship Him in Spirit and Truth.
Through God’s sacrificial Lamb, Jesus, you have peace.

John 14:27 " Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."

No, that sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors. No more smoke for me thank you. I am going back to turntoislam.com , they seem to tell more truth and less smoke.

 

[Mannyfit75]

UH! HUH! WHAT?

What I stated is facts. This is a summary of Church History. Jesus at the death the cross, the Church was born at his side when the Roman strikes his side, which water and blood came out. From that side, the Church was born, after his resurrection, he granted the Apostles authority by commanding them “teach them all that I have commanded you,” On Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descent amongst the Apostles, and rest of his disciples, this is the start of the Church age. During this time, the Apostles handed their authority to their successors the bishops, saints like, St. Linus, St. Clement of Rome, St.Polycarp, St. Ignatius, who in turn pass it to their successors. This Apostolic Succession guided the Holy Spirit, one of the many actions of the Holy Spirit happen in Council of the Jerusalem when a dispute with circumcision was discuss, the Church decided that Gentile should not be circumcised, in this Council the Apostles and the Elders did not refer to Scripture but refer to the testimony given by Peter (the first Pope), Paul and Barnabas. There would not be another Council which would take place in the Council of Nicea to handle the dispute of the Arianism heresy and the Church guided by the Holy Spirit preserved the Jesus’ divinity.

The Holy Spirit still guides the Church today in the bishops, the Popes to preserve them from teaching err regarding FAITH and MORAL issues. This Church today exist in the Catholic Church, both Roman and Latin Rite Churches. This Church is also within the Orthodox Christian Church due to their valid Holy Orders and successions of bishops, the Orthodox I believe is the other lung of the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ. This is fact and history. I can go into greater detail if I want because this is only a summary of Church history/Christian history.

 

[Lively_Stone]

What I stated is facts. This is a summary of Church History. Jesus at the death the cross, the Church was born at his side when the Roman strikes his side, which water and blood came out. From that side, the Church was born, after his resurrection, he granted the Apostles authority by commanding them “teach them all that I have commanded you,” On Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descent amongst the Apostles, and rest of his disciples, this is the start of the Church age. During this time, the Apostles handed their authority to their successors the bishops, saints like, St. Linus, St. Clement of Rome, St.Polycarp, St. Ignatius, who in turn pass it to their successors. This Apostolic Succession guided the Holy Spirit, one of the many actions of the Holy Spirit happen in Council of the Jerusalem when a dispute with circumcision was discuss, the Church decided that Gentile should not be circumcised, in this Council the Apostles and the Elders did not refer to Scripture but refer to the testimony given by Peter (the first Pope), Paul and Barnabas. There would not be another Council which would take place in the Council of Nicea to handle the dispute of the Arianism heresy and the Church guided by the Holy Spirit preserved the Jesus’ divinity.

The Holy Spirit still guides the Church today in the bishops, the Popes to preserve them from teaching err regarding FAITH and MORAL issues. This Church today exist in the Catholic Church, both Roman and Latin Rite Churches. This Church is also within the Orthodox Christian Church due to their valid Holy Orders and successions of bishops, the Orthodox I believe is the other lung of the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ. This is fact and history. I can go into greater detail if I want because this is only a summary of Church history/Christian history.

Manny I can appreciate your zeal for your faith. But truth is an elusive thing depending on what you accept and who you accept it from. I don’t know if Catholics and Prostestants will ever totally agree on anything, because our objective standards are so different. I guess the only way we will ever know who is right is when Jesus comes. My prayer is He will take all of us to be with Him for the rest of eternity. I want everybody to be in Heaven. The word of God says there will be wailing and nashing of teeth when the people realize what they could have had if only they had taken up their cross and followed His teachings and lived the Godly principals presented in the Gospels. I love you in the Lord and pray that you be blessed in your faith. Just keep your eyes on Jesus.

 

[shadow_fire]

1. I don’t see any evidence in Catholicism being true.
2. I disagree with many of the teachings
3. …I’m gay

Edit: If you want to respond to this pm me because I probably wont check this thread.

 

[Lively_Stone]

No, that sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors. No more smoke for me thank you. I am going back to turntoislam.com , they seem to tell more truth and less smoke.

I since a lot of anger in you Jedda. I know Kujo is outspoken about his faith as am I, and everyone on this forum. This is simply a place for the free exchange of ideas concerning our various views on our faith. I am not going to tell you that this forum is the place for anyone not yet knowing what they believe because it is not. The views and opinions being expressed are from people who already know what the believe and are debating with the other team, and not always in a Godly manner. Guilty as charged. Kujo quoted the Bible. I believe it is truth. Perhaps this scripture will help you.

Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

Take it to the Lord Jedda, find yourself a Christian minister to help guide you. The internet is not the place to find the answers, as you seek. We are merely lay people and you need an annoited, Holy Ghost filled truly knowledgeable called person of God to personally help you and minister and teach you. I love you in the Lord and ask this whole forum to join me in praying for Jedda as she seeks her faith. Lord Jesus let it be you she chooses. Let her choose to follow you all the rest of the days of her life. Lord Jesus heal her broken heart and mend her broken spirit and strenghthen her in desire to know the truth of you Lord Jesus. Renew her mind Lord Jesus that she will have all clarity of thought. Lord Jesus let her know the peace and joy that comes from understanding the work that you did at the cross for our sins, that we might be reconciled unto our heavenly Father. Most of all Lord Jesus send your Holy Angels to surround her and minister to her needs. Heal her in body, soul and in her spirit in the mighty name of Jesus and Lord send some Godly ministers to teach and minister to her. This we pray in the mighty name of Jesus Amen

 

[Mannyfit75]

1. I don’t see any evidence in Catholicism being true.
2. I disagree with many of the teachings
3. …I’m gay

Edit: If you want to respond to this pm me because I probably wont check this thread.

Many Catholics who agree with the teachings of the Church will say this regarding gays. “Hate the sin, but love the sinners.” The Catechism of the Catholic Church states regarding homosexual individuals:

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Manny I can appreciate your zeal for your faith. But truth is an elusive thing depending on what you accept and who you accept it from. I don’t know if Catholics and Prostestants will ever totally agree on anything, because our objective standards are so different. I guess the only way we will ever know who is right is when Jesus comes. My prayer is He will take all of us to be with Him for the rest of eternity. I want everybody to be in Heaven. The word of God says there will be wailing and nashing of teeth when the people realize what they could have had if only they had taken up their cross and followed His teachings and lived the Godly principals presented in the Gospels. I love you in the Lord and pray that you be blessed in your faith. Just keep your eyes on Jesus.

I believe that the Catholic Church is correct in all its teachings with all regards to moral and faith. If she is not the Truth Church of Jesus Christ, then Jesus lied to his Apostle Peter and to us when he said, “The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.”

The Catholic Church is the One True Church if Jesus Christ. She has for over 2,000 yrs compiled the both the OT and NT and made it a complete, the Bible we have today. She have also preserve the divinity of Jesus Christ against Arianism, Nestorianism, Gnosticism, Pelegianism.

There were indeed Schisms that occur due to the hardness of men’s hearts, first from the split from the Western Christians (Catholic) and Eastern Orthodox (Eastern Christians), and finally Protestantism in the 16th Century, the tradition from which you came from.

The Holy Mother Church, the Bride of Christ is always faithful to Jesus. Though she has both a divine and human nature, divine because she is guided by the Holy Spirit, human nature because her members or children are Catholic Christians, who are sinners.

As 1 Tim 3:15 the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth is the Church. This Church is Catholic.

From the words of St.Ignatius of Antioch, disciple of St. John the Apostle said in either 107-110 AD said this:

Letter to the Smyrnaeans: Chapter 8: Let nothing be done without the bishop.

See that you all follow the bishop, even as **Jesus Christ **does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever **Jesus Christ **is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

If you read the Faith of the Early Church Fathers by William Jurgen, you will find the earliest description by either Justin Martyr or St. Ireneaus that the early worship was Liturgical and very Catholic.

I do not believe that the Catholic Church is out to deceived people. She desires all to be brought to Jesus Christ.

 

[kujo313]

Where did your Bible come from? Who decided what should or should not be in it?

I know where this is going. You’re gonna say “The Catholic Church put it together” and you’ll want me to submit to that. IF the RCC put together what is today’s Bible, then you’d STILL have to ask yourself why they left out some very important things to today’s RCC.
All we need to know about Mary’s role in God’s plan in what is written in the Bible. The same for Jospeh, Nichodemus, etc.

Isaiah 55:8-9

“ For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the **LORD. **
“ For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts."

In the days of the Bible, there was Kings. To help His disciples understand God more, He used parables and often used the words “Kingdom”, “King” and “Father”.

Unfortunately, the so-called “church” is playing the “say the first thing that comes to your mind” game. When the Bible says “King”, you immediately say “Queen” and your “leaders” put Mary under a microscope, study her and give her names and powers that was never intended for her.

Duh. Of course you’d say that.

God didn’t.

Jesus also used the words “bride” and “bridegroom” in His parables. The “bride” is His Church. Not the “church” who really, REALLY wants a “Queen Mother” and such.

Again:

Isaiah 55:8-9

“ For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the **LORD. **
“ For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts."

 

[kellie]

1. I don’t see any evidence in Catholicism being true.
2. I disagree with many of the teachings
3. …I’m gay

Edit: If you want to respond to this pm me because I probably wont check this thread.

You can be gay and be Catholic

I know it’s a shock

You just have to remain chaste

Being gay is not a sin or against any Catholic teaching

But engaging in gay sex is a sin and against Catholic teaching

 

[smolderingwick]

My reasons:

1. I am not Christian because I do not like the hatred, prejudice, and elitism I felt in myself while following a “Christian” (though many will debate if that is true) religion.

I’m curious as to what Christian religion you were following?
Also, i know where u r coming from… there is a lot of, well, i was going 2 say “hate” may be 2 strong a word, but now that i think about it… there is hate in the Church (any church). But I just remember Martin Luther… He got angry @ the Church and left when if he had stayed and helped out, the Church would have been better off and we, today, would have been better off because we would now have unity - not all these different, bickering denominations and sects…
All the evil in the Church can make Christianity very discouraging. It is no wonder people drop out… I should have dropped out myself… There is ONE thing that kept me (well, maybe 2, but they are kind of One since they’re related). It is the Real Presence of Christ in the Church 24/7. Whenever i have doubts about Christianity or its history or whatever, all my doubts disappear when i think of Jesus’ Presence. Have you ever experienced that?

1. The Catholic Church, despite having some doctrine that appears on the surface to be contrary to #1, still creates an atmosphere of elitism and prejudice. This attitude is even evidenced by (some of the) postings here.

I have to admit, i haven’t read ALL the postings here (this thread) but I don’t have to in order to agree with you. I have read many posts on many other threads… plus, i have been Catholic all my life (i left the Church for several yrs… the other churches are no better ). Anyway, as stated, i should have left the Church a long time ago and would have if a priest had not directed me to the Blessed Sacrament. God bless him for that. I was raised CAtholic and never knew about the Blessed Sacrament until several yrs ago… That’s another criticism i have of the Church… it doesn’t catechize its members very well…

In short, the attitude of “we’re going to heaven because we have the Truth and if you aren’t really lucky when you don’t follow that, you’re going to Hell” - has completely turned me off

Catholics don’t believe only Catholics are going to Heaven or even that only Christians will. The Church teaches that God loves ALL his children and wants them all saved (in Heaven with Him)and that even if they have never heard of Jesus (or heard much…) they can accomplish that through their response to grace…
Anyway, you are right to reject the hatred and prejudice you see in the Church… though i feel you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater…
The Church needs people like you to reform it. The Church is very much in need of reform right now. When devout members like me feel like leaving, albeit only infrequently, something is TERRIBLY wrong!!

 

[LutheranDK]

Three reasons? I can think of a great many, but now I have to select three?? You can’t do that to me

But here goes, in no particular order. If one or more of the reasons overlap…well, sorry :

1: I do not recognize the validity of the position the catholic church grants “tradition”, since this is very very shaky ground.
Traditions change; the Truth does not, and neither does God.
I think this “tradition-dogma” might be the root of most or all of my grievings, since it is the foundation of them

2: I do not recognize the “authority” of the Poepe. I believe that the verses this teaching is based on (“Thou art Peter, and upon this rock…”) is being grossly violated in this dogma.
Especially since Christ moments later tells this apparant “rock” that he is satan himself (“Get thee behind me, satan!”)

3: The cult of Mary and the cult of the saints.
It seems like, and I mean no offence by this, a complete circus with saints for everything from truckdrivers to ballet dansers.
3,1: The saints (including Mary) are dead. They will rise on the last day, and live with Christ forever, but as of this moment, they are as dead as the keyboard I’m using to type this. So they can’t intercede on our behalfs, nor can they pray to God for us.
3,2: All who believe in Christ are saints. And the best prove of this is to read the letters from Paul, adressing “the saints in …” [insert name of town here]

That was three…

4: Ha - I slipped in a #4…so sue me

I believe that man is saved BY FAITH ALONE, and that no man can be saved except through faith. Good works will not get you into Heaven - Jesus will. And if you don’t have Jesus, it does not matter how many good deeds you’ve done. If a man like Ghandi (who we can all agree was a good man) did not come to Christ before he died, he is eternally lost. And so is everyone who is not Christian.
This fundamental biblical truth is, as far as I know, rejected by the catholic church, in favor of a “You can’t be sure that you’re saved if you’re Christian, but you’re not neccesarily lost if you’re not”-attitude, and this point of view is completely unsubstanciated in Scripture. And this thought of “Limbo” which is neither Paradise, nor Hell, is also not found anywhere in Scripture. I see it as the, somewhat pleasant, fruit of man not wanting to conceede that there are only two possible eternal destinations: Paradise or Hell…

And I think I will stick with four, for now

 

[jedimasterham]

1. There’s no proof of god, in fact, there’s evidence against one.
2. The bible contains, flaws and mistakes, contains inflated history.
3. The pope is just a person as was jesus.

 

[LutheranDK]

1. There’s no proof of god, in fact, there’s evidence against one.
2. The bible contains, flaws and mistakes, contains inflated history.
3. The pope is just a person as was jesus.

Just one question to it all (and maybe this should be in another thread, but I can’t just let this be ):

Proof?
1: Evidence against God? Show me

2: Flaws and mistakes in the Bible? Show me.

3: Proof it…