Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).

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Thanks.

If that is the verse, then I was right to think the context was wrong.

The DEAD know nothing. But those who die in Christ are not dead, but alive:amen:.

Mk 12:26-27 - he is God of the living, not of the dead
You are correct. Ecclesiastes 9:5 does not apply to the Saints.
 
What makes you think I haven’t already done that? I have.

I am saying, and will stand by my statement, that these verses do not lead by means of logic to support a view of the Immaculate Conception. If you say that they do by faith, I will buy that. I will buy that belief in the Immaculate Conception is a statement of faith. And it is indeed the faith promulgated by the Catholic Church. Which, as is the topic of this thread, one of the reasons that I am not a Catholic.

Grace Seeker, you are begging the question by asserting without an argument
that Genesis 3:15 and Luke 1:28 contain no logical grounds for the doctrine
of the Immaculate Conception. What you actually mean is that you fail to see
any logical support for the authenticity of this Catholic dogma. Pope Pius lX,
in his office of teacher and shepherd of all Christians, found reasons in
the scriptures to proclaim this doctrine as dogma. The words of Christ found
in John 15:26-27 and 16:12-13 assure us that the pope truthfully interpreted
these biblical verses when exercising his judgment under the guidance of
the Holy Spirit. The ‘charism’ of infallibilty given by the Holy Spirit on Pentecost
did not expire with the deaths of St. Peter and the Apostles. Nor did schismatics
take this spiritual gift with them when they took leave of the Catholic Church
to establish their own fallible and deficient traditions on their own initiative. All
the infallible doctrines and dogmas of the Catholic Church are absolutely true,
immutable, and irrevocable. There is room for error only in the non-infallible teachings
and orders of the Ordinary Magisterium. But these errors are not so severe as to
lead the Church off the path of salvation. Explicit and implicit revelations found
in the Bible do not end with the book. Our Lord told his apostles that he would
send them the Holy Spirit, the Advocate, to lead the Church in truth of more
things to come. And he said that now was not the time to reveal these things,
for the apostles could not have comprehended them at the time. It took the Church
almost three centuries to fully comprehend the precise meaning of the Holy Trinity
and the Hypostatic union in Christ. Doctrines are formed and dogmas are pro-
claimed in a developmental movement under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. For
this reason Jesus established his catholic Church - to continually establish and
reveal the divine truth and gradually unfold the complete scope of God’s plan for
our salvation. The Spirit of truth has guided the Sacred Magisterium
in all the infallible teachings of the Church. If it were not the case, then no Christian
can be honestly sure that God’s revelations are in fact attainable. The Protestant
denominations all claim that their differing essential doctrines are the true ones,
attained by the guidance and enlightenment of the Holy Spirit upon scriptural
reflection and interpretation. But how can each group know for sure that they
have formulated true doctrines? Not one group has a direct link with the apostolic
early Church. Only the “One” Catholic Church can claim that divine warranty.
The Blessed Virgin Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin.
It is the truth. :rolleyes:
 
Grace Seeker:
Belief among the numerous, varying Protestant denominations is extremely diverse. This state
of affairs applies also to the different schools of theological thought among these religious
groups. Not unlike Protestants, Catholics sometimes privately disagree among themselves on
non-infallible teachings and on non-essential matters. But unlike Catholics, Protestants disagree on many essential doctrines which they believe are fundamental to the Christian faith. Catholics give a “sacred assent” of mind and will to the infallible teachings of the Church. For they are bound to accept these doctrines or cease to be truly Catholic. Catholicism is truly a unity in all the sacred teachings and traditions of the “Apostolic” Church. 🙂

Catholic apologists have pointed out that the problem of disunity in Protestantism is primarily
created by the absence of an effective means to determine which beliefs are essential or non-
essential to the Christian faith. Without a functioning magisterium each denomination is left on its own to rationalize and decide for themselves, for instance, whether it is scriptural to baptise
infants. Ironically, if one denomination judges that a particular doctrine is essential to the faith,
the other denominations have no effective means to refute that denomination’s doctrine, i.e,
‘high predestination’. An appeal to Holy Scriptures would be a futile method, for the bible alone
is an insufficient source for a theological confirmation: the Bible does not tell us which teachings
are essential and non-essential. It is a question of interpretation, bringing us back to square one. Meanwhile, each denomination claims to have given the correct (fallible) interpretation. One reason why I am not a Protestant is that I cannot figure out which denomination is the one closest to the divine truth, assuming I am not using the Catholic faith as a measuring stick. I believe my life is too short in order for me to make the right choice before I take the plunge. 😊

To arrive at a decision I would certainly have to attend the services of countless different
communities. In the course of my window-shopping I could not expect to see a Lutheran pastor
conducting a service in a Calvinist church because of his differing belief in ‘baptismal regeneration’. Meanwhile, there would be no Calvinist minister in the Methodist parish across the street, for his sermon on ‘high predestination’ would offend many pious ears. He might even risk being dragged out and stoned to death. :eek:

Certainly, all the conflicting fundamental doctrines I would come across would confuse
the daylights out of me. In my quest for the true Protestant church, Lutherans,
Presbyterians, and some Anglicans would tell me in agreement with each other that
their teachings on “faith alone” do not exclude baptism as a means of justification.
But some Evangelicals and Dispensationalists would correct me by saying the belief in
baptism as a means of salvation is a direct violation of the formula ‘sola fide’. For they
equate the act of being baptised as a form of “works”. If Protestantism is confusing,
it is because the faith is inconsistent. And the list of major differences in the essential
teachings of Protestant denominations goes on and on. :confused:

I can walk into any Roman Catholic parish around the world on a given Sunday and find a
priest celebrating Holy Mass. If it happened to be August 15, then I could be sure to expect
a sermon or a brief comment (alas) on the Assumption of Mary. And not one priest could
refuse to baptise an infant on a Sunday afternoon because he rejected the practice of
infant baptism for theological reasons. Indeed, we have cases of dissent among Catholic
theologians in their private opinions and there seems to be a conflict between modernists
and traditionalists. But these matters are non-essential. Being a part of Catholicism means
we cannot pick and choose what we believe in, unlike Protestantism. We either
accept the sacred teachings and traditions of the Church or cease being truly Catholic. 😦

With the Sacred Magisterium in the Catholic Church we have an official and united position
in the most important and essential doctrines. Protestantism cannot boast of such unity,
since the different denominations within this movement disagree on many essential doctrines.
Catholicism has a governing and teaching body -the pope in communion with the world’s
bishops- who speak for us and can articullate what the Church’s official postion is. There is
nothing comparable in Protestantism, and so the Protestant faith is a disunity contradicting
the intentions of Christ and his prophetic words: “On this rock I will build my Church.” He
said nothing of “churches”. 🤷
 
Are you saying the Bible is wrong?
Luke 24:49-51
49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." 50When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.
Hi
I am rather explaining the truth in the Bible, it is in the deep study .
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
 
Hi
I am rather explaining the truth in the Bible, it is in the deep study .
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
I am simply quoting the Bible.

Can you please tell me how “deep study” has made you think Jesus died in India, after surviving crucifixion, from the passage that I quoted?
 
Paarsurrey, I think it is you who is putting his own words into God’s mouth
by contradicting what is evident in the Holy Bible. :eek:
 
I am simply quoting the Bible.

Can you please tell me how “deep study” has made you think Jesus died in India, after surviving crucifixion, from the passage that I quoted?
Surviving a crucifixion? The Romans made sure that nobody survived a crucifixion.
Why do you think they broke the legs of the two thieves and everybody else who had
to be rushed to their deaths out of expediency. Crucifixion was a death penalty that was
carried through, Paarsurrey. :eek:

The only people who survive crucifixions are the Filipinos who mimic it annually on Good Friday.
And that’s because the ancient Romans aren’t involved. 😛
 
  1. Mary.
    Just to be thinking and studying about Mary is taking your focus off of Jesus, Himself.
Not entirely. She WAS the tabernacle that held God (Jesus)… so focusing on her can not really be separated from focus on Christ…
There’s the rosary…
I wouldn’t be a devout Christian right now if it hadn’t been for the rosary… (long story…)
Then there’s the scapular. “Wear this when you die and you’ll escape Hell fire”
You won’t escpape Hell by wearing the scapular if you are not free of mortal sin (in other words, if u haven’t repented of it). The Church does not teach this (though some of its members may… out of ignorance). That’s one of the biggest problems: people believing what some uniformed Catholic says, rather than official Church teaching… 🤷
The Bible says that there is One Mediator and that’s Jesus.
Then you had better stop praying for other people (which is mediating for them)… Besides, Mary is a Mediator between us and Jesus, not a mediator between us and God HImself…
I don’t know about you, but I’m not going to whisper in Heaven.
Yeah, but you’re not in Heaven yet… In peace (quietude) in the Real Presence of Christ (for one who is a state of grace) there is great inner joy… (& lots of Truth…)
The pope says that the catholic religion has the “exclusive to salvation”.
True. The Church also teaches that ALL Christians are part of the Church that Christ established (Roman Catholic), whether they realize it or not… Jesus established only ONE Church… other “church” communities are just that - communities, not Churches, per se…
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law…
The law here mentioned in Scripture is the Mosaic law, the law given by Moses concerning such things as kosher foods, etc… it does not mean the law as you seem to think. It doesn’t mean the law as in “Thou Shalt not Kill” (etc). Jesus said that not one jot nor one tittle of the law will be abolished… He came, as he said to “fulfill the law”, not to abolish it… When asked what one should do to be saved, Jesus said to obey the Commandments…
Catholicism says:
Man is justified by baptism plus faith, plus additional works (see Catholic Catechism Ref. Nos. 1265-1271, 1987-1995).
This is not what the Catholic Church teaches… She teaches that We are saved by grace that flows from the Sacraments… (& from staying mortal-sin free…), such grace flows from Jesus Christ, the Head of the Church in Heaven… .to the body of Christ on Earth…
Code:
I was a partaker of the catholic religion for half of my life.  I believe if the Holy Spirit was to be given control of the Sunday morning services, each service would be different
The homily is different every Sunday, the music is different… and if the Real Presence of Christ in the Church isn’t enough of the Holy Spirit for you, i don’t know what to say…
Just because people aren’t jumping up and down and hollering doesn’t mean they don’t have the Holy Spirit.
God bless…
 
Hi, Kujo. I don’t mean to be ganging up on you, but I am wondering how you can doubt
that the Blessed Virgin Mary can hear millions of prayers from around the world at once. We
should keep in mind that Mary is in heaven which is not on earth. She is not physically situated
in one particular place apart from the rest of us in the world of length, width, depth, and space:
Einstein’s four dimensions of our universe. Our Blessed Mother exists in eternity with God, and
so she is not constrained by time and space. She exists in Christ’s heavenly kingdom which
in the words of our Lord “is not of this world.” Mary exists outside of real time and space, a point towards which all our prayers converge at once and at the same time from wherever we are and whenever we all happen to pray together. Mary is not omniscient and omnipresent like God, but because she exists in heaven with him, she does in a sense participate in God the Father’s omniscience and omnipresence like the angels in heaven. :rolleyes:

“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels
in heaven always look upon the face of my heavenly Father.” [Matthew 18:10]
 
Hello! Let me start by saying I became a Christian over 30 years ago (yikes, I must be old, LOL) and used to be very anti-Catholic. I could not believe there was any way Catholics could be saved Christians. I felt they just went through a lot of rituals, unconditionally accepted what their hierarchy dictated instead of reading the Bible, had never personally accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior, etc. I’ve listened to Catholic radio quite a bit since John Paul II died (almost more than “regular Christian” radio) and feel I’ve gone from being anti-Catholic to being on the fence between Catholic beliefs and the beliefs I held for over 30 years. I would love to get to a point where I truly know what I believe and why, but now that I have had many (not all) of my doubts and questions answered via Catholic radio, I feel very torn. I was very interested to see this thread, since there actually are 3 matters I still feel are deal breakers for me:
  1. The main deal breaker is the Catholic view of baptism and salvation. I can NOT believe baptism saves a person. I asked Christ into my heart to be my Lord and Savior when praying for my terminally ill mother in '76, yet Catholics would say I was not born-again at that moment, even though I know I was. I was baptized by immersion as a public display of my faith in Christ, because that is the method used by Christ and others in the Bible to profess their faith.
  2. Although I do now understand the Catholic explanation that they do not worship Mary but rather honor her as a person would honor their earthly mother, I still feel that SO much attention and devotion is given to Mary, that it’s like Catholics are overcompensating for the lack of attention Protestants give to her. I don’t think it’s right that Protestants pay little to no attention to Mary. But it seems like Catholics have her right up there with Jesus, sometimes even above Jesus. Like with the Rosary, where Mary is the main focus and Jesus is secondary. The prayer is all about her, and that bothers me.
  3. I have been married for 28 years to a man who is also an evangelical Christian; we were married in a Baptist church and presently belong to a non-denominational Bible church. Even if I was to resolve all my issues and feel I was supposed to seek to become a Catholic, we would then be unequally yoked and apparently not even viewed as married in the eyes of the Catholic church. Also, I have a best friend for 18 years who is more like a sister. She is also an evangelical Christian and is anti-Catholic like I used to be. Her opinion does matter a lot to me, and she would never understand.
I have not scrolled down far enough on this thread to see if Catholics have commented on the reasons people have given here, but I hope for and will welcome any and all responses. I do plan to continue to listen to Catholic radio and I hope to get all my questions and doubts resolved one way or the other. Teri
 
Welcome to the Forum, Teri, and thank you for openly sharing. We all become less anti-something as we gracefully mellow with age. I am glad to hear that many of the misconceptions you had about Catholicism have cleared up. Many Protestants have a wrong idea about our Faith because of the inaccurate sermons they have been hearing or books they have read by Protestant authors. It would be a good idea to read the books of Catholic theologians like Scott Hahn who converted from the Protestant tradition. :confused:

To start by better understanding Catholic devotion to Mary, you may want to read Hahn’s book
‘Hail, Holy Queen’ and scan the Marian encyclicals of the popes on the net. You feel that Catholics pay too much attention to Mary, but on the contrary, too many Catholics, if not most, fail to give her enough attention contrary to the wishes of her divine Son. Only a few Catholics, even, visit the Blessed Sacrament on a daily basis although we believe that Jesus is really present in the Eucharist. Sometimes it takes converts like Scott Hahn to wake the rest of us life-long Catholics up, because of their deep appreciation for their newly found Faith. 👍

Have no fear about saying the “Hail Mary” for it is a purely scriptural prayer. I recite the prayer
in Aramaic, Mary’s native language, to become more intimate with her as a son. (Cf. Jn 19:26)

“Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with you. [Luke 1:28]
Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. [Luke 1:42]
Holy Mary, Mother of God [Luke 1:43] pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. [Gen 18:20-33; Eph 3:14-20; Rev 8:4, etc.] Amen.” 🙂

Teri, it is true that we do not worship Mary or adore her as we should her Son. We honour her
because of whose mother she is, and we turn to her for her prayers because of her influence
with Jesus. The “Hail Mary” is essentially greeting our Blessed Mother and asking her to intercede for us just as Jesus prayed for us when he was on earth, St.Paul prayed for us, and the saints pray for us in heaven along with Mary. Of all the saints she must be the most influential person because of her maternal role. When I was a boy, I often asked my mother to interecede for me with my father; for I feared his just anger. Yet Mary’s intercessory role is less direct. She intercedes with her Son who in turn mediates between us and the Father. We should keep in mind that our Lord performed his first miracle through Mary’s intercession at the wedding feast in Cana. [Cf. Jn 2:3-5] The authors of the Gospels never separate the mother from the son. We Catholics believe likewise that Jesus and Mary must be kept together in a relationship that was preordained by God the Father in his plan for our salvation, but we do not pay her homage, as we do our Lord and Saviour, while honoring her as Christ’s mother. :rolleyes:

They were overjoyed at seeing the star, and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary,
his mother. They prostrated themselves and did him homage. [Mt 2:10-11]

The Magi never thought of asking Mary to step away from her son so that she would not distract them from paying him homage with undivided attention. So why do the Protestants demand that she move away from her son and be separated from him? She is not so distracting as they make her out to be! :eek:

Finally, the Sacrament of Baptism is necessary for our salvation. Through baptism we receive
sanctifying grace which cleanses us and frees us from original sin. The New Testament is
explicitly clear about this gratuitous effect. Here I go again sounding like a “bible thumper”. 😊

“You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ
and in the Spirit of our God.” [1Cor 6:11]

Our Lord voluntarily submitted himself to the baptism of St. John, intended for sinners, in order
to “fulfill all righteousness.” [Cf. Mt 3:15]

“Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved.” [Mk 16:16]

Peace be with you.
Good Fella :cool:
 
Surviving a crucifixion? The Romans made sure that nobody survived a crucifixion.
Why do you think they broke the legs of the two thieves and everybody else who had
to be rushed to their deaths out of expediency. Crucifixion was a death penalty that was
carried through, Paarsurrey. :eek:

The only people who survive crucifixions are the Filipinos who mimic it annually on Good Friday.
And that’s because the ancient Romans aren’t involved. 😛
Hi
I think you won’t mind, for references from NTBible and the analysis, reading the book “Jesus in India” by accessing:alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
and refuting the arguments of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi.
This is if you feel interested, otherwise no compulsion.
Thanks

GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
 
Due to this thread being over 1000 posts in length it is now closed. Thanks to all for your participation. Please feel free to begin a new thread if you wish to continue the discussion.

God bless-

Rachel
 
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