Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).

[paarsurrey]

So how can you possibly be a “true Christian” while espousing
another religion even? You fail to make any sense.

Hi
I think I have reasonably explained my stance of being RealChristian while at the same time I am a RealMuslim in my response to **kellie **today.Maybe it does not look to you correct, but the same way your stance does not appeal to me. It is always like this, JWs won’t like your stance, Mormons won’t like your stance etc, etc, etc…
May GodAllahYHWH bless you!
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

 

[Good_Fella]

Paarsurrey, it is not a question of taking any stance. What you say is a blatant
contradictiion if you assert to be a true Christian while denying the divinity of
Christ and the concept of the Holy Trinity. Further, you are wrong saying that the
Old and New Testaments prophesy the coming of the prophet Mohammed. The
burden of proof lies with you to cite biblical passages that foretell the coming of the
prophet. The truth is that Mohammed has absolutely no connection with
the Bible other than he tampered with it. He simply popped out of nowhere. No
biblical prophecies concerning him exist. If he has any connection,
it would be with the bastard son of Abraham and nothing more. Like Ishmael,
Islam is illegitimate, a bastardization of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

You claim to be a follower of both the “prophet” Jesus and the prophet Mohammed,
believing they are both of the same religious lineage. But how can that be considering
Mohammed contradicted many teachings and the words of Christ. Jesus taught
forgiveness, for instance, and Mohammed taught revenge. How do you manage to espouse
two contradictory doctrines as true? Again, you make no sense.

Both Jesus and Mohammed rejected religious pluralism. Our Lord commissioned his
apostles to form his Church and to make disciples of all nations baptising them.
Mohammed terrorized the Arabian peninsula slaughtering just about everyone
who refused to convert to Islam. On one documented occasion he beheaded up to
1000 Jews in a village in 24 hours and sold the women and children into slavery.
Why is it that you endorse religious pluralism against the wishes of the prophets you
follow? I think you have the wrong information.

 

[Janet_S]

Hi
I respect your religion and have no objection on whatever you believe, that is your right.
I also have the same right, I think you won’t deny that. I sincerely believe from OTBible&NTBible and history ( I won’t mention here Quran as you don’t believe in Quran) that JesusYeshua did not die and could not die on Cross, so with that finishes the question of his being God. I do believe that he was a truthful ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH and I am a true follower of JesusYeshuaIssa. OTBible&NTBible also mention prophecies, which had been fullfilled in the person of Muhammad, so being a true believer of Moses and Jesus I had to accept Muhammad also, if I don’t believe in Muhammad, that tantamount to disbelieving Moses and Jesus. This way I am a true,sincere and real believer of Jesus. I think you would appreciate and understand that. I don’t say that anybody should convert to Islam or Ahmadia, that would be automaticall done when one is reasonably convinced, otherwise no need.May GodAllahYHWh bless you!
Thanks you
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

If you are a Christian, you must believe that Jesus was God, since he is the second person of the Blessed Trinity.

The Trinity is the central tenet of Christian belief.

If you don’t accept the Trinity, you are not Christian.

Also, the Resurrection was a real event, and many people were witnesses to Jesus’ physical body alive after the Resurrection.

Jesus claimed to be God, the Jews recognized this, and that’s why they were always accusing him of blasphemy.

C. S. Lewis points out in his book Mere Christianity:

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: “I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.” That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic–on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg–or else he would be the Devil of Hell. **You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. ** You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."

 

[MariaG]

Maria,

I appreciate your desire to be in fellowship. I desire it too. I don’t feel a need to become Catholic for us to be in fellowship. We simply need to accept one another individually as brothers and sisters in Christ.

I did not choose to remove myself from fellowship. I was never a Catholic so how could I remove myself from its fellowship. However, I am a Christian, so will the Catholic Church recognize me as a part of the Body of Christ or reject me? Even if the Catholic church says that I am not part of the Church, what will you say. Will you be in fellowship with me?

Which is why you are separated brethren. We understand that you really are not “protesting” anything. But even though you are not protesting anything deliberately, it is still a fact that we do not have the same beliefs.

What you need to understand is that the Catholic Church has great responsibility. We believe that Christ established the Catholic Church and told us to entrust the teachings to faithful men.

Even though we earnestly desire that all were one, we cannot ignore the teachings that were passed down to us from the apostles, in order to be one. That is a false unity.

The Catholic Church does in fact recognize you as a Christian, you are part of the Body of Christ. The Catholic Church does not reject your basic Christianity. And in fact, the Catholic Church does teach that you are part of the Church.

I will be in fellowship with you. I would love to be in full fellowship with you but until the Holy Spirit reveals the importance of that truth to you, I will have to settle for the fellowship we can have.

We are both Christians. We can pray together, we can even worship together. But scripture tells us that before we can come to the table together, we have to settle our differences. That does not mean agreeing to disagree. It means agreeing together.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[paarsurrey]

The Trinity is the central tenet of Christian belief.
If you don’t accept the Trinity, you are not Christian.

Hi
Who first defined it? JesusYeshuaIssa; he himself never mentioned that he believed in Trinity. Please don’t mind, then Jesus won’t be a Christian. I think that is not acceptable to you, simalarly Moses, Abraham etc never believed in Trinity. This started with Paul at Rome, when JesusYeshuaIssa was among the lost ten tribes of Israel, busy preaching them. Later he died a natural and respectful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi
Who first defined it? JesusYeshuaIssa; he himself never mentioned that he believed in Trinity. Please don’t mind, then Jesus won’t be a Christian. I think that is not acceptable to you, simalarly Moses, Abraham etc never believed in Trinity. This started with Paul at Rome, when JesusYeshuaIssa was among the lost ten tribes of Israel, busy preaching them. Later he died a natural and respectful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India.

Have you even read the bible???

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Hi
Who first defined it? JesusYeshuaIssa; he himself never mentioned that he believed in Trinity. Please don’t mind, then Jesus won’t be a Christian. I think that is not acceptable to you, simalarly Moses, Abraham etc never believed in Trinity. This started with Paul at Rome, when JesusYeshuaIssa was among the lost ten tribes of Israel, busy preaching them. Later he died a natural and respectful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India.

None of your post has anything to do with the topic of the thread.

That Jesus did or did not believe in Trinity cannot be seen from the Bible anymore than that idea that Jeuss did or did not believe in the Qur’an as neither terms are mentioned in the Bible. However, I submit that the concepts of the Trinity are in the Bible and the concepts of the Qur’an are not in the Bible. Given that the concepts of the Trinity are actually derived from the teachings of Jesus regarding himself as God and the Holy Spirit as God – and yes he in essence did say that in John 10 and John 14 – while at the same time acknowledging that there was just one God (John 17) and though a monotheist still accepted worship of himself as God (John 20:28). I submit to you that Jesus did believe in Trinity, even if he never used that exact word to label his beliefs.

Jesus need not be Christian to be our God, Lord, Savior, and Redeemer. Think for a moment, Allah is not Muslim.

Lastly your idea that Jesus died in India are not only contrary to the revelation contained in the Bible, but they are also contrary to the Qur’an and Hadith of Islam which maintains that God raised him up out of this world.

You have your own set of beliefs. They are NOT Christian. They are NOT Islam. Your beliefs may be relevant to why you are NOT Catholic, but attacking other people’s beliefs are NOT what this thread is about. PLEASE create another to promote your Ahmadi beliefs if you desire to continue with that. Out of respect for others, please keep your comments in this thread restricted to the actual topic at hand.

 

[paarsurrey]

Have you even read the bible???

Hi
Yes, I have read both Catholic and Protestant Versions from cover to cover.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

 

[Good_Fella]

Paarsurrey, you claim that you have read the Bible -but to no avail.
Perhaps, because you were not sincerely searching for the truth when
you did read the scriptures, you overlooked the revelation of the Holy
Trinity in the Gospel of John, given by Jesus himself, years before the
conversion of Paul.

“When the Advocate comes (God the Holy Spirit) whom I (God the Son)
will send from (God) the Father, the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the
Father, he will testify to me.” [John 15:26]

Before his ascension into heaven, Jesus said, when he commissioned
his twelve apostles, not including Paul:

“Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe
all that I have commanded you.” [Matthew 28:19-20]

Jesus himself explicitly reveals the Holy Trinity to us without using the term
itself. The Holy Trinity is implicitly revealed in some places in the Old Testament.

The spiritual reality of the Holy Trinity is even implicitly revealed to us in God’s
creation. In the natural world we have H2o (God) and three distinct persons
in one God existing consubstantially: Ice (Father) Water (Son) and Steam/Vapor
(the Holy Spirit). Open your eyes and your heart!

Please read the Holy Bible again, Paarsurrey, but not as an academic
exercise. Peace be with you.

 

[kellie]

Hi
Who first defined it? JesusYeshuaIssa; he himself never mentioned that he believed in Trinity. Please don’t mind, then Jesus won’t be a Christian. I think that is not acceptable to you, simalarly Moses, Abraham etc never believed in Trinity. This started with Paul at Rome, when JesusYeshuaIssa was among the lost ten tribes of Israel, busy preaching them. Later he died a natural and respectful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

You are correct, Jesus was not a Christian. He was a Jew.
But He did say He IS God in the Bible. The Trinity is part of our oral teachings, that were performed by the Apostles of Jesus, after He ascended into Heaven, after the Resurrection.
He never went to India and died a peaceful death. Show me proof of this please.

 

[paarsurrey]

He never went to India and died a peaceful death. Show me proof of this please.

Hi
For proofs, please access and read the book “Jesus in India”:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

 

[nerfherder]

Guanophore,

I am thankful for your spirit. You do NOT deny the teachings of your church, but YOU ARE WILLING to look beyond its dogmas to embrace individual Christians. If we could all do this, then we would have the unity for which I seek. Though I understand that there is yet another type of unity even beyond this, it would be a big first step.

Thank-you for being a light in the darkness.

AMEN! You are a blessing.

 

[kellie]

Hi
For proofs, please access and read the book “Jesus in India”:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

Are you saying the Bible is wrong?

Luke 24:49-51

49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." 50When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.

 

[Greg27]

Inter-religious dialogue is a delicate matter for anyone who adheres to any religion.

I’ve studied the various world religions myself in some detail, including Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam and the various branches of Christianity.

It is remarkable how similar the world’s religions converge on certain attributes of ultimate reality, be it Allah, the Trinity, Nirvana, Brahman and so on. Generally all religions seem to agree that the Absolute is infinite, incomprehensible, boundless, and beyond understanding, but also the highest and happiest bliss to be experienced.

Yet each religion, including the three monotheistic ones, differ in their conceptions and language about the Absolute/God, and the monotheistic religions differ from Asian religions in their conceptions as well.

Judaism and Islam very strongly emphasize the Absolute Unity of God. To both religions, God is absolutely One and there can be no plurality of any kind in God. This is why both religions regard the idea of a Trinity in God as essentially blasphemous and heretical from their point of view. Christians on the other hand, also believe in the absolute unity of God but also the unique divinity of Christ. If this is not true then many key ideas about our salvation as Christians are gravely undermined, so the Trinity is a fairly central and vital doctrine to all Christian theology or discourse about God.

Yet from the viewpoint of Philosophical theology, when we consider the general discourse of the three faiths of Abraham about God’s essence and attributes, there is little or no difference. All three religions believe God is One, infinite, invisible and ineffable in his essence, compassionate and just, loving and personal, yet also in his nature far above any concepts or images we could have. God also calls people in all three religions to a personal relationship, to which we are bound to love and obey in faith.

In Asian mystical religions, the Absolute is generally an impersonal reality, except in theistic Hinduism. Asian religions have a soaring concept of the Absolute in which the believer is plunged into something akin to an endless desert or fathomless abyss of eternal, infinite Being in which the individual self is lost like a drop of water in the ocean. Some currents in Christian mysticism (i.e. Meister Eckhart, the Cloud of Unknowing) approach asian mystical religions such as Zen Buddhism, especially the more heterodox ones like Meister Eckhart. The result is a transfiguration of the individual into an image of one of God’s multiple incarnations or one of the Buddhas or Boddhisattvas, a sort of transcendance in which the individual and their identity is lost.

In Christian mysticism, save for the system of Meister Eckhart, the individual is not lost but rather transfigured into Christ, while retaining their identity as a creature. This process is called divinisation or theosis. Yet the transformation is into the image of Christ and also to the Triune God, not into an indeterminate abyss of pure and formless Being. While God’s essence is also nameless and his being infinite, there is no question of a Christian ever uniting to God in such a way personal identity is ‘negated’ in the abyss of the divine essence.

Christianity also can’t accept ‘revelations’ or ‘scriptures’ which deny things like the Triune God, such as the Qu’ran or the books of say, Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. Orthodox Muslims of course regard the Qu’ran as a perfect revelation from God, and when hearing it feel God’s prescence. Yet the Qu’ran in a number of Surahs clearly states God is One with no begotten, and regards Jesus as another prophet. Christians cannot regard Jesus as another prophet. Yet this does not mean Islamic theology and philosophy does not contain some very rich reflections on God, as great thinkers such as Avicenna and Al-Ghazzali or Al-Farbi and Ibn-Arabi indicate, thinkers I admire for their depth and insight into divine reality.

Yet I don’t think all the world’s religions can be collapsed to a single common denominator, as each has a different picture of the Absolute and a different method of salvation. Buddhist ideas of salvation are completely different from Christian ideas of salvation, though at some points there are similarities (such as the monastic element to spiritual life). Clearly there is work needed to bring peaceful relations between all the world’s religions, where unfortunately militants (particularly in fundamentalist Islam) are trying to force people into their way of religious life by violence. Islam needs to return to its emphasis on peace and justice, rather than the nastier tribal warfare and conquest which also forms a element of Islamic civilisation, and grant religious minorities including Christians greater freedom and tolerance, as we in the West give them very freely.

 

[paarsurrey]

Inter-religious dialogue is a delicate matter for anyone who adheres to any religion.

Yet I don’t think all the world’s religions can be collapsed to a single common denominator, as each has a different picture of the Absolute and a different method of salvation.

Clearly there is work needed to bring peaceful relations between all the world’s religions, where unfortunately militants (particularly in fundamentalist Islam) are trying to force people into their way of religious life by violence. Islam needs to return to its emphasis on peace and justice

Hi
I agree with you. It is difficult to all religions get collapsed into one religion but it is not immpossible.
The difference in concepts of God could be rectified by comaparing and understandign attributes of GodAllahYHWH with rational , reasonable agruments.
Since all revealed religions were sent by one GodAllahYHWH so in origin they are one, so that makes the work easy.
There is no compulsion in religion, so there is all the necessity that Islam as it has always been, should be understood with peace rather than violance which has never been its part.This misunderstanding should be removed and rectified.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

 

[guanophore]

All Christians are in commuion with Jesus Christ. He is the savior. Not his Mother Are we not all children of the same God? Does God love Catholics more? Are we not all one body? One Lord, One Faith, One baptism?

A Christian is, by definition, also in communion with the mother of Christ. She was the very first Christian, and initiated her Son into His public ministry, and supported Him throughout it. She followed Him from the moment He was received until He left the world, first by way of the cross, then by way of the ascension. Sh is of the same body, same faith, same baptism. One cannot be a Christian and reject the mother of Christ.

 

[guanophore]

Hi
I agree with you that anybody of any denomination should be equally respected, JWs and Mormons also as they call themselves Christians or sometimes the only Christians…

If you think that JW’s and Mormons are Christians, clearly you do not understand what it means to be Christian. A Christian believes that Jesus is Divine, the second person of the Holy Trinity.
paarsurrey;2312342:

I am a TrueChristian as well, as I am TrueMuslim , in fact I am a truebeliever of every revealed religion, though I truthfully express myself as Ahmadi denoting the above fact.

You are full of horse hockey, is what you are. A true Christian is a person who follows Christ. That means, the individual accepts His claim that He is divine. Since you reject this, you cannot properly call yourself a Christian.

I love Jesus and Mary.
ThanksI am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

.

I think your “love” if you have any of Jesus and Mary must be only shallow. Mary believed also that her son was begotten of the MOst High God. Jesus said “if you love me, you will keep my commandments”, the first of which is to have no other God before Him.

Hi
I respect your religion and have no objection on whatever you believe, that is your right. I also have the same right, I think you won’t deny that.

I just think your perception of Christianity is warped.
paarsurrey;2313331:

I sincerely believe from OTBible&NTBible and history ( I won’t mention here Quran as you don’t believe in Quran)

It is a book, but not on par with the Sacred Scriptures, since it contains error.

that JesusYeshua did not die and could not die on Cross, so with that finishes the question of his being God.

So, what do you do with all those stories that say He DID die on the cross. Just throw them out?

I do believe that he was a truthful ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH and I am a true follower of JesusYeshuaIssa.

Nonsense, paarsurrey. If He were a truthful prophet, why would he go around saying “I and the Father are One”, and “If you have seen me, you have seen the father”? He is either who he claims to be, or a liar, or a lunatic.

OTBible&NTBible also mention prophecies, which had been fullfilled in the person of Muhammad, so being a true believer of Moses and Jesus I had to accept Muhammad also, if I don’t believe in Muhammad, that tantamount to disbelieving Moses and Jesus.

I don’t think so, but either way, that is a subject for another thread. Feel free to start one! I am happy to go over there and debunk your falsities as well.

This way I am a true,sincere and real believer of Jesus. I think you would appreciate and understand that.

I do NOT appreciate you going around claiming to be a real believer in Jesus. In fact, if you say this, you are an impostor, or else Jesus is the impostor.

I don’t say that anybody should convert to Islam or Ahmadia, that would be automaticall done when one is reasonably convinced, otherwise no need.May GodAllahYHWh bless you!
Thanks you

I am sure there will be no need to convert. The sword will be the fate of those of us who reject Islam. No follower of Jesus will ever be reasonably convinced to deny Him by embracing Islam. To do such a thing would cause one to be “apostate” (fallen away from the truth).

 

[Good_Fella]

Paarsurrey, being a Christian and calling oneself a Christian are two different things.
The Mormons, for instance, call themselves Christians but are not Christians - Christian
heretics at most. For this sect holds the doctrine of ‘tritheism’ : three Gods. True
Christianity holds the belief of three divine “persons” in one God: monotheism. The
Mormons are a heretical sect of Christianity just like the Amhadi is a heretical sect
of Islam. I can see why you sympathise with the Mormons and other groups like
them.

 

[paarsurrey]

So, what do you do with all those stories that say He DID die on the cross.

Hi
The stories are only stories unless Cross-examined and found to be true. The story writers were never examined as per standard procedures, common in the Western Civilizations these days. If that is done , a deep study is done in this way, the truth will authomatically surface.
May GodAllahYHWH bless you all.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

 

[lak611]

Hi
The stories are only stories unless Cross-examined and found to be true. The story writers were never examined as per standard procedures, common in the Western Civilizations these days. If that is done , a deep study is done in this way, the truth will authomatically surface.
May GodAllahYHWH bless you all.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

From the NASB:

1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,
1Co 1:24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.