- Status
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
No practice of the Catholic Church has received more attention and abuse from Her opponents than the ancient custom of honoring the heroic servants of God. Idolatry and superstition have been charged against Her.
The Church has been in existence nearly two thousand years. She has on Her list of known Saints many thousands of names of men and women whom She honors and pays real religious homage. However, never in Her history has She given adoration to them. The Catholic Church makes a complete and clear distinction between the supreme worship which is given to God alone and the relative and inferior homage which is paid to the Saints.
Catholics have always distinguished emphatically between the cultus dulia, which translates as “the homage of veneration,” and the cultus latria, which signifies “the worship of adoration.”
Veneration is paid to the Saints. A higher form of it, called hyperdulia, is given to the Blessed Virgin Mary by virtue of Her singular privilege as Mother of God; but adoration is given to God alone. Any attempt to give adoration to a creature would certainly be false worship - but the Catholic Church has never given it. She adores God and God only.
Is it reasonable to invoke the Saints to aid us?
The most common Protestant objection to the intercession of the Saints is that it diminishes the intercessory role of Christ who is the “one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim. 2, 5). Understood properly, Christ is the one mediator of redemption, for there is no other name under heaven by which humanity is saved. Nevertheless, Sacred Scripture itself attests that Christ is not the sole mediator of prayer. The Holy Spirit “intercedes with sighs too deep for words” (Rom. 8, 26). Moses interceded for the people of Israel, asking God’s mercy and grace, for the sake of the dead Patriarchs who were righteous:
“But Moses implored the Lord his God, and said, O Lord, why does your wrath burn hot against your people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians say, It was with evil intent that he brought them out to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from your fierce wrath; change your mind and do not bring disaster on your people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, how you swore to them by your own self, saying to them, I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have promised I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever. And the Lord changed his mind about the disaster that he planned to bring on his people” (Exod. 32, 11-14).
St. Paul continuously recommended himself to the prayers of his brethren (Rom. 15, 30; Heb. 13, 18); St. James declared that the prayer of “the righteous man has great power” (St. Jas. 5, 16); and Simon Magnus sought the intercession of St. Peter to save him from the wrath of God (Acts 8, 24).
The assertion that dead saints cannot hear our invocations rests on Ps. 115 [113], 17: “The dead do not praise the Lord…” It should be noted that this Psalm was written at a time when Jewish understanding of the after-life was not yet fully developed. By the second century B.C. the Jews would have a better understanding of both the after-life and the intercessory role of the dead:
“What he saw was this: Onias, who had been high priest, a noble and good man, of modest bearing and gentle manner, one who spoke fittingly and had been trained from childhood in all that belongs to excellence, was praying with outstretched hands for the whole body of the Jews. Then in the same fashion another appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority. And Onias spoke, saying, This is a man who loves the family of Israel and prays much for the people and the holy city - Jeremiah, the prophet of God. Jeremiah stretched out his right hand and gave to Judas a golden sword, and as he gave it he addressed him thus: Take this holy sword, a gift from God, with which you will strike down your adversaries” (2 Macc. 15, 12-16);
theworkofgod.org/LIBRARY/Apologtc/R_Haddad/Course/Book2.htm#THE%20INVOCATION
The Church has been in existence nearly two thousand years. She has on Her list of known Saints many thousands of names of men and women whom She honors and pays real religious homage. However, never in Her history has She given adoration to them. The Catholic Church makes a complete and clear distinction between the supreme worship which is given to God alone and the relative and inferior homage which is paid to the Saints.
Catholics have always distinguished emphatically between the cultus dulia, which translates as “the homage of veneration,” and the cultus latria, which signifies “the worship of adoration.”
Veneration is paid to the Saints. A higher form of it, called hyperdulia, is given to the Blessed Virgin Mary by virtue of Her singular privilege as Mother of God; but adoration is given to God alone. Any attempt to give adoration to a creature would certainly be false worship - but the Catholic Church has never given it. She adores God and God only.
Is it reasonable to invoke the Saints to aid us?
The most common Protestant objection to the intercession of the Saints is that it diminishes the intercessory role of Christ who is the “one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim. 2, 5). Understood properly, Christ is the one mediator of redemption, for there is no other name under heaven by which humanity is saved. Nevertheless, Sacred Scripture itself attests that Christ is not the sole mediator of prayer. The Holy Spirit “intercedes with sighs too deep for words” (Rom. 8, 26). Moses interceded for the people of Israel, asking God’s mercy and grace, for the sake of the dead Patriarchs who were righteous:
“But Moses implored the Lord his God, and said, O Lord, why does your wrath burn hot against your people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians say, It was with evil intent that he brought them out to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from your fierce wrath; change your mind and do not bring disaster on your people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, how you swore to them by your own self, saying to them, I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have promised I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever. And the Lord changed his mind about the disaster that he planned to bring on his people” (Exod. 32, 11-14).
St. Paul continuously recommended himself to the prayers of his brethren (Rom. 15, 30; Heb. 13, 18); St. James declared that the prayer of “the righteous man has great power” (St. Jas. 5, 16); and Simon Magnus sought the intercession of St. Peter to save him from the wrath of God (Acts 8, 24).
The assertion that dead saints cannot hear our invocations rests on Ps. 115 [113], 17: “The dead do not praise the Lord…” It should be noted that this Psalm was written at a time when Jewish understanding of the after-life was not yet fully developed. By the second century B.C. the Jews would have a better understanding of both the after-life and the intercessory role of the dead:
“What he saw was this: Onias, who had been high priest, a noble and good man, of modest bearing and gentle manner, one who spoke fittingly and had been trained from childhood in all that belongs to excellence, was praying with outstretched hands for the whole body of the Jews. Then in the same fashion another appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority. And Onias spoke, saying, This is a man who loves the family of Israel and prays much for the people and the holy city - Jeremiah, the prophet of God. Jeremiah stretched out his right hand and gave to Judas a golden sword, and as he gave it he addressed him thus: Take this holy sword, a gift from God, with which you will strike down your adversaries” (2 Macc. 15, 12-16);
theworkofgod.org/LIBRARY/Apologtc/R_Haddad/Course/Book2.htm#THE%20INVOCATION
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
At the Transfiguration on Mount Tabor, Moses and Elijah appeared talking with Christ (St. Matt. 17, 3). This would have been impossible if they had been “dead” according to the Protestant understanding of Psalm 115[113]. In relating to the Pharisees the parable of the Lost Sheep, Christ stated that “there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents” (St. Luke 15, 10). Further, in His discourse to the Sadducees, Christ declared that the just dead are “equal to angels” (St. Luke 20, 36) for God “is God not of the dead, but of the living; for to him all of them are alive” (St. Luke 20, 38). Hence, it follows that both angels and humans in heaven are aware of what is transpiring on earth. Finally, as if to emphasize the power of the dead to intercede for loved ones on earth, Christ proceeded to relate to the Pharisees the story of Lazarus and Dives:
“The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. He called out, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames. But Abraham said, Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony. Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who might want to pass from here to you cannot do so, and no one can cross from there to us. He said, Then, father, I beg you to send him to my father’s house - for I have five brothers - that he may warn them, so that they will not also come into this place of torment” (St. Luke 16, 22-28);
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us” (Heb. 12, 1);
“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect” (Heb. 12, 22-23).
In this last passage St. Paul explains to the faithful that although they are still on earth, they are in communion with the heavenly Jerusalem and with the dead Saints, those righteous made perfect. The faithful on earth are not in communion with the bodies of the Saints buried in peace, but with their souls. Death does not inhibit this communion.
It is also noteworthy that while Christ was dying on the Cross He cried out “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (St. Matt. 27, 46). Due to the distance, the Chief Priests and Scribes failed to discern that Christ was in fact quoting the first verse of Psalm 21, thinking instead that He was calling upon the Prophet Elijah. Their response was not to condemn Christ for idolatry, but rather declared “let us see whether Elijah will come to save him” (v. 49). The belief in the intercessory power of Elijah is still held by the Jews today, as Elijah is said to be invisibly present at all Brit Millah, or circumcision ceremonies.
Finally, angels likewise act as intercessors:
“Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel” (Rev. 8, 3-4).
theworkofgod.org/LIBRARY/Apologtc/R_Haddad/Course/Book2.htm#THE%20INVOCATION
“The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. He called out, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames. But Abraham said, Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony. Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who might want to pass from here to you cannot do so, and no one can cross from there to us. He said, Then, father, I beg you to send him to my father’s house - for I have five brothers - that he may warn them, so that they will not also come into this place of torment” (St. Luke 16, 22-28);
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us” (Heb. 12, 1);
“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect” (Heb. 12, 22-23).
In this last passage St. Paul explains to the faithful that although they are still on earth, they are in communion with the heavenly Jerusalem and with the dead Saints, those righteous made perfect. The faithful on earth are not in communion with the bodies of the Saints buried in peace, but with their souls. Death does not inhibit this communion.
It is also noteworthy that while Christ was dying on the Cross He cried out “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (St. Matt. 27, 46). Due to the distance, the Chief Priests and Scribes failed to discern that Christ was in fact quoting the first verse of Psalm 21, thinking instead that He was calling upon the Prophet Elijah. Their response was not to condemn Christ for idolatry, but rather declared “let us see whether Elijah will come to save him” (v. 49). The belief in the intercessory power of Elijah is still held by the Jews today, as Elijah is said to be invisibly present at all Brit Millah, or circumcision ceremonies.
Finally, angels likewise act as intercessors:
“Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel” (Rev. 8, 3-4).
theworkofgod.org/LIBRARY/Apologtc/R_Haddad/Course/Book2.htm#THE%20INVOCATION
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
K
kujo313
Guest
M
Mommyof02green
Guest
fatima.org main web-page is promoting the book “EWTN a network gone wrong”. Now why would a “Catholic” web-site be bashing EWTN??
Rosary.com from what I can tell is just a list of other web-sites that sell rosaries… I don’t know what you are refering to here.
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
There are three things that demons fear
The Name of Jesus
The Name of Mary
The scapular
“Take off the habit, which snatches so many souls from us”
The apparitions of Mary were the devil. Kujo, you’ve sunk to a new level of ignorence and stupidity. Satan cannot glorify God. Why would Satan want us to pray the Our father (Inculded in the rosary) when it is one of the most powerful prayers to God?
Kujo it’s not us that have been blinded by Satan. It is you. It is you who have gone astray. It’s not us who are going to hell for our Prayers to Mary, it is you going to hell for your blasphemy against her. You remind of St. Paul in a way. He persucated the followers of Christ because he thought he was doing God’s will. You think that by turning from Mary you are doing God’s will. Jesus blinded Paul for persucuting his followers. What do you think he will do to you for blasphemy against his mother?
The Name of Jesus
The Name of Mary
The scapular
“Take off the habit, which snatches so many souls from us”
The apparitions of Mary were the devil. Kujo, you’ve sunk to a new level of ignorence and stupidity. Satan cannot glorify God. Why would Satan want us to pray the Our father (Inculded in the rosary) when it is one of the most powerful prayers to God?
Kujo it’s not us that have been blinded by Satan. It is you. It is you who have gone astray. It’s not us who are going to hell for our Prayers to Mary, it is you going to hell for your blasphemy against her. You remind of St. Paul in a way. He persucated the followers of Christ because he thought he was doing God’s will. You think that by turning from Mary you are doing God’s will. Jesus blinded Paul for persucuting his followers. What do you think he will do to you for blasphemy against his mother?
C
cpayne
Guest
On either side of the argument: No one knows for sure who is going to hell, or for what reasons. (Even if the only other Cujo I’ve ever heard of was a rabid St. Bernard. 
)
)
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
My three reaons.
1.The Christians are not united into one denomination; Catholics as they say are the oldest and the largest, they have most responsibitly for forging unity.
2. JesusYeshuaIssa did not die a cursed death on Cross, he was a respectful person he could not be cursed.
3. The present Christianity is not following on footsteps of JesusYeshuaIssa.
This is what I believe from the scriptures and history, others could believe what they think is reasonable, rational and logical.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
My three reaons.
1.The Christians are not united into one denomination; Catholics as they say are the oldest and the largest, they have most responsibitly for forging unity.
2. JesusYeshuaIssa did not die a cursed death on Cross, he was a respectful person he could not be cursed.
3. The present Christianity is not following on footsteps of JesusYeshuaIssa.
This is what I believe from the scriptures and history, others could believe what they think is reasonable, rational and logical.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
L
lak611
Guest
You could be a deacon, who is an ordained minister in the Catholic Church.
G
Good_Fella
Guest
Kujo, please observe the following biblical passage you fail to see and understand:
“But when the Advocate comes, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth,
who proceeds from the Father, he shall give testimony of me. And you shall give testimony
of me, because you are with me from the beginning. I have many things to say to you; but
you cannot bear them now. But when He, the Spirit of truth comes, he will teach you
all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; WHAT THINGS SO EVER HE SHALL HEAR
HE SHALL SPEAK; AND THE THINGS THAT ARE TO COME, HE SHALL SHOW YOU.
He shall glorify me; because HE SHALL RECEIVE WHAT IS MINE AND SHALL SHOW
IT TO YOU. All things whatsoever the Father has are mine. Therefore, I said, that he
shall receive what is mine and show it to you.” [John 15:26-27, 16:12-15]
God’s revelations to His Church are not fixed and static. The spiritual truths of our Faith
begin with Sacred Scriptures; but these truths do not end there. The Deposit of our Faith is
also made up of our sacred Tradition, purveyed by the teaching authority of the Sacred
Magisterium and expressed in our liturgy and devotions. Our Lord constantly reveals the will
of the Father through the operation of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Catholic Church. Her
doctrines and practices reflect the growing fullness of God’s revelations in the course of
the end time until Christ returns in glory. We are prepared for more revelations “to come”
not unlike the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist or the Immaculate Conception and
Assumption of Mary into Heaven or the Communion of Saints.
Indeed, Jesus assured us he would not leave us orphans. He promised to send his Spirit,
the Paraclete and Helper, the third Person of the Holy Trinity who proceeds from the Father and
the Son, the same Spirit who has spoken through the prophets of the Old Testament. in the course of God’s revelations. Through the activity of the Holy Spirit, Jesus has given us his Blessed Mother. For God the Father had chosen her to be our Lord’s mother and ours from the beginning. (Genesis 3:15) Jesus remains with his Church in time through the Holy Spirit and by the agency of the Paraclete He guides his Church in the formulation of her doctrines and devotions as she carries out her mission in His name. In association with her Son and in cooperation with the Holy Spirit our Blessed Mother comes to help us get to her Son who alone gets us to the Father.
Mary’s apparitions in Fatima and Lourdes, for instance, are the work of the Spirit of truth,
not the mechanations of fallen angels. Our Lord promised to be with his Church until the
end of time and to protect her from “the gates of Hell” in unison with the Holy Spirit.
Three reasons why I am not a Protestant:
“But when the Advocate comes, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth,
who proceeds from the Father, he shall give testimony of me. And you shall give testimony
of me, because you are with me from the beginning. I have many things to say to you; but
you cannot bear them now. But when He, the Spirit of truth comes, he will teach you
all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; WHAT THINGS SO EVER HE SHALL HEAR
HE SHALL SPEAK; AND THE THINGS THAT ARE TO COME, HE SHALL SHOW YOU.
He shall glorify me; because HE SHALL RECEIVE WHAT IS MINE AND SHALL SHOW
IT TO YOU. All things whatsoever the Father has are mine. Therefore, I said, that he
shall receive what is mine and show it to you.” [John 15:26-27, 16:12-15]
God’s revelations to His Church are not fixed and static. The spiritual truths of our Faith
begin with Sacred Scriptures; but these truths do not end there. The Deposit of our Faith is
also made up of our sacred Tradition, purveyed by the teaching authority of the Sacred
Magisterium and expressed in our liturgy and devotions. Our Lord constantly reveals the will
of the Father through the operation of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Catholic Church. Her
doctrines and practices reflect the growing fullness of God’s revelations in the course of
the end time until Christ returns in glory. We are prepared for more revelations “to come”
not unlike the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist or the Immaculate Conception and
Assumption of Mary into Heaven or the Communion of Saints.
Indeed, Jesus assured us he would not leave us orphans. He promised to send his Spirit,
the Paraclete and Helper, the third Person of the Holy Trinity who proceeds from the Father and
the Son, the same Spirit who has spoken through the prophets of the Old Testament. in the course of God’s revelations. Through the activity of the Holy Spirit, Jesus has given us his Blessed Mother. For God the Father had chosen her to be our Lord’s mother and ours from the beginning. (Genesis 3:15) Jesus remains with his Church in time through the Holy Spirit and by the agency of the Paraclete He guides his Church in the formulation of her doctrines and devotions as she carries out her mission in His name. In association with her Son and in cooperation with the Holy Spirit our Blessed Mother comes to help us get to her Son who alone gets us to the Father.
Mary’s apparitions in Fatima and Lourdes, for instance, are the work of the Spirit of truth,
not the mechanations of fallen angels. Our Lord promised to be with his Church until the
end of time and to protect her from “the gates of Hell” in unison with the Holy Spirit.
Three reasons why I am not a Protestant:
- ‘sola scriptura’ 2. ‘sola fide’ 3. ‘sola Christo’ ( There are 3 divine Persons in one God.)
G
Grace_Seeker
Guest
Until recently, I always considered a Christian was a Christian was a Christian. But my experience here has taught me that Catholics are different than other Christians, and I don’t like what I have seen. On this forum I have seen many Catholics present themselves as somehow superior to other types of Christians (a viewpoint with which I do not hold when it is reversed either) .
Thus, I would not likely ever become a Catholic as long as there were other Christian communities that understood that the true Church of Jesus Christ was universally inclusive of ALL Christians, regardless of denominational affiliation, available to me. While most other points of disagreement I have with Catholic theology are relatively little consequence in my mind, the idea of true catholicity vs the Catholic church’s idea of CATHOLICITY is significant to me. I will attend some place that is willing to receive all Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ, one with another – in fellowship, in baptism, and at table… Those that say that because I am not Catholic that I am not in true fellowship with them, have disfellowshipped themselves from me, and I will respect that. Reconsider that theology of looking on non-Catholics as separated brethern and I will reconsider my views with respect to the Catholic church.
Thus, I would not likely ever become a Catholic as long as there were other Christian communities that understood that the true Church of Jesus Christ was universally inclusive of ALL Christians, regardless of denominational affiliation, available to me. While most other points of disagreement I have with Catholic theology are relatively little consequence in my mind, the idea of true catholicity vs the Catholic church’s idea of CATHOLICITY is significant to me. I will attend some place that is willing to receive all Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ, one with another – in fellowship, in baptism, and at table… Those that say that because I am not Catholic that I am not in true fellowship with them, have disfellowshipped themselves from me, and I will respect that. Reconsider that theology of looking on non-Catholics as separated brethern and I will reconsider my views with respect to the Catholic church.
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
No Catholic here say we are superior. You may preceived it that way from your point of view. We acknowledge Non-Catholic Christians as separated brothers and sisters in Christ. They are a member of the Mystical Body of Christ.
Most of the time, Non-Catholic Christians are extremely objective to Catholic doctrines and say, “Your wrong. Some even say, The RRC is 125% in all its teachings.” Do you expect us to idly watch you mock our belief and not defend it? No.
Catholics have a right to explain and defend from individuals who are just pure “Anti-Catholic.”
The Catholic Church my friend stands alone in many morality issues. She stands alone with the issue of contraception, Protestants do not, she is against embryonic stem cell research, yet I have not heard any Protestant minister speak against it, she condemns euthanasia, condemned the Iraq War as an unjust war.
The Protestant Christian ministers just sit and do nothing regarding this issues. Even some liberal Protestants support abortion rights like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc.
Protestant Christians belief are divided in varies issues and are not united in faith concerning. In the Catholic Church, there is Apostolic Succession, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Magisterial Authority (bishops in union with the Pope). In Protestantism, we seek acceptance of gay ordination (Anglican) and blessing gay marriages… One bishop claimed, that “the Bible condemnation of homosexuals is misinterpreted.”
What does the Catholic Church says CCC states,
M
MariaG
Guest
You should consider reading about the early Church and see how they dealt with people who were not Catholic. The fact of the matter that your view of respecting different beliefs and let us all come together at the table of the Lord is simply not biblical nor is it consistent with the early history of Christianity.
Protestants are the ones who choose to walk away from the fellowship of the Catholic Church. Yet you have a problem with the Catholic Church because she recognizes this self will and respects that Protestants have chosen to break away from being ONE? The Catholic Church will always welcome back those who wish to follow scripture and be One again.
This is like saying that Catholics added books to the Bible. It it looking at history in reverse and rewriting it to fit your view of history.
The Catholic Church does in fact believe that all Christian denominations are in fact part of the body of Christ, but it is the Protestants who choose to no longer be Catholic.
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
No Catholic here say we are superior. You may preceived it that way from your point of view. We acknowledge Non-Catholic Christians as separated brothers and sisters in Christ. They are a member of the Mystical Body of Christ.
Most of the time, Non-Catholic Christians are extremely objective to Catholic doctrines and say, “Your wrong. Some even say, The RRC is 125% WRONG in all its teachings.” Do you expect us to idly watch you mock our belief and not defend it? No.
Catholics have a right to explain and defend from individuals who are just pure “Anti-Catholic.”
The Catholic Church my friend stands alone in many morality issues. She stands alone with the issue of contraception, Protestants do not, she is against embryonic stem cell research, yet I have not heard any Protestant minister speak against it, she condemns euthanasia, condemned the Iraq War as an unjust war.
The Protestant Christian ministers just sit and do nothing regarding this issues. Even some liberal Protestants support abortion rights like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc.
Protestant Christians belief are divided in varies issues and are not united in faith concerning. In the Catholic Church, there is Apostolic Succession, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Magisterial Authority (bishops in union with the Pope). In Protestantism, we seek acceptance of gay ordination (Anglican) and blessing gay marriages… One bishop claimed, that “the Bible condemnation of homosexuals is misinterpreted.”
What does the Catholic Church says CCC states,
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
The doctrine of Sola Scriptura allows Liberal Christians (Protestants) to accept Homosexuality… The Catholic Church has stood the steps of time for over 2,000 yrs and My Christian friend, she is not going to the disappear. For this Church, this Catholic Church is the Bride of Jesus Christ.
We, Catholics will defend the Mother Church because she is the Beloved Spouse of Jesus. They are Also One.
Jesus said to Saul on his road to Damascus, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”
Saul is persecuting the Church. Before Protestantism, Christian was always Catholic. Before E. Orthodox, there was only Catholic Church.
Most of the time, Non-Catholic Christians are extremely objective to Catholic doctrines and say, “Your wrong. Some even say, The RRC is 125% WRONG in all its teachings.” Do you expect us to idly watch you mock our belief and not defend it? No.
Catholics have a right to explain and defend from individuals who are just pure “Anti-Catholic.”
The Catholic Church my friend stands alone in many morality issues. She stands alone with the issue of contraception, Protestants do not, she is against embryonic stem cell research, yet I have not heard any Protestant minister speak against it, she condemns euthanasia, condemned the Iraq War as an unjust war.
The Protestant Christian ministers just sit and do nothing regarding this issues. Even some liberal Protestants support abortion rights like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc.
Protestant Christians belief are divided in varies issues and are not united in faith concerning. In the Catholic Church, there is Apostolic Succession, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Magisterial Authority (bishops in union with the Pope). In Protestantism, we seek acceptance of gay ordination (Anglican) and blessing gay marriages… One bishop claimed, that “the Bible condemnation of homosexuals is misinterpreted.”
What does the Catholic Church says CCC states,
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
The doctrine of Sola Scriptura allows Liberal Christians (Protestants) to accept Homosexuality… The Catholic Church has stood the steps of time for over 2,000 yrs and My Christian friend, she is not going to the disappear. For this Church, this Catholic Church is the Bride of Jesus Christ.
We, Catholics will defend the Mother Church because she is the Beloved Spouse of Jesus. They are Also One.
Jesus said to Saul on his road to Damascus, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”
Saul is persecuting the Church. Before Protestantism, Christian was always Catholic. Before E. Orthodox, there was only Catholic Church.
G
Grace_Seeker
Guest
These last two posts are examples of what I am talking about.
I addressed the question as to why I was not Catholic. I shared my experience. I stated no division with the Catholic church except over the issue of fellowship. Was this concern of lack of fellowship discussed? Was there any hint that the Catholic church might need to repent of at least some of its attitude, even if not its theology? Was there any compassion for my personal experience?
No. There was denial that my experience was real. There was assertion that I was not speaking truly with regard to what I have been told by other posters. I was lumped with all who are outside the Catholic church and then my viewpoint was assailed by attacking views which I don’t even hold.
Thus is the manner of making friends and influencing enemies that I have found on this forum.
I addressed the question as to why I was not Catholic. I shared my experience. I stated no division with the Catholic church except over the issue of fellowship. Was this concern of lack of fellowship discussed? Was there any hint that the Catholic church might need to repent of at least some of its attitude, even if not its theology? Was there any compassion for my personal experience?
No. There was denial that my experience was real. There was assertion that I was not speaking truly with regard to what I have been told by other posters. I was lumped with all who are outside the Catholic church and then my viewpoint was assailed by attacking views which I don’t even hold.
Thus is the manner of making friends and influencing enemies that I have found on this forum.
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
The Catholic Church under the guidance and leadership of the Pope John Paul II, the Great have made a offering to God for the forgiveness of the sins committed by Catholics in history.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_II
Who are you calling enemies here? None of us have called Protestant Christians as our enemies. Many of them do have total misconception about Catholic doctrine. We only wish to enlighten their minds and give them an open mind why we believe in many of the essential Church doctrines.
M
MariaG
Guest
Respectfully Grace, I was trying to show you that you are blaming the wrong person for the position of the Catholic Church. Protestants choose to remove themselves from fellowship of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church honors this and upholds this.
You blame Catholics for this distance yet the distance was not created by Catholics and Catholics have in fact reached out and continue to reach out repeatedly to Protestants.
As for the attitude of the Catholic Church, Pope JPII made many apologies for the sins of it’s members and the abuses thereof.
God Bless,
Maria
M
MariaG
Guest
Respectfully Grace, I was trying to show you that you are blaming the wrong person for the position of the Catholic Church. Protestants choose to remove themselves from fellowship of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church honors this and upholds this.
You blame Catholics for this distance yet the distance was not created by Catholics and Catholics have in fact reached out and continue to reach out repeatedly to Protestants.
As for the attitude of the Catholic Church, Pope JPII made many apologies for the sins of it’s members and the abuses thereof.
God Bless,
Maria
- Status