K
- Status
G
Good_Fella
Guest
Kujo, belief in the Assumption of Mary did not come about in the 1950’s.
You are confusing a tradition that goes back to apostolic times with the
promulgation of a solemnly defined dogma. The belief in the Assumption
of Mary dates back to the time when the apostles were still alive. What was
clear right from the start was that there were no relics of Mary to be venerated
contrary to Church custom. We also know that an empty tomb stood on
the edge of Jerusalem near the place of her death. That spot became a
place of pilgrimage and still is today:the Benedictine Abbey of the Dormition
of Mary. At the Council of Chalcedon (451AD) Emperor Marcian aked the
Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople
to be enshrined in the capitol. The Patriarch explained to the emperor that
there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem and that “Mary had died in the presence
of the apostles; when her tomb was later opened it was found empty and so
the apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven.” Let us keep in
mind that the apostles did witness Christ’s ascension, so we can understand how
they would draw such an inference concerning his mother.
You are confusing a tradition that goes back to apostolic times with the
promulgation of a solemnly defined dogma. The belief in the Assumption
of Mary dates back to the time when the apostles were still alive. What was
clear right from the start was that there were no relics of Mary to be venerated
contrary to Church custom. We also know that an empty tomb stood on
the edge of Jerusalem near the place of her death. That spot became a
place of pilgrimage and still is today:the Benedictine Abbey of the Dormition
of Mary. At the Council of Chalcedon (451AD) Emperor Marcian aked the
Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople
to be enshrined in the capitol. The Patriarch explained to the emperor that
there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem and that “Mary had died in the presence
of the apostles; when her tomb was later opened it was found empty and so
the apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven.” Let us keep in
mind that the apostles did witness Christ’s ascension, so we can understand how
they would draw such an inference concerning his mother.
K
kujo313
Guest
Mary is buried in Ephesus where John took her. She’s there, somewhere.Kujo, belief in the Assumption of Mary did not come about in the 1950’s.
You are confusing a tradition that goes back to apostolic times with the
promulgation of a solemnly defined dogma. The belief in the Assumption
of Mary dates back to the time when the apostles were still alive. What was
clear right from the start was that there were no relics of Mary to be venerated
contrary to Church custom. We also know that an empty tomb stood on
the edge of Jerusalem near the place of her death. That spot became a
place of pilgrimage and still is today:the Benedictine Abbey of the Dormition
of Mary. At the Council of Chalcedon (451AD) Emperor Marcian aked the
Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople
to be enshrined in the capitol. The Patriarch explained to the emperor that
there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem and that “Mary had died in the presence
of the apostles; when her tomb was later opened it was found empty and so
the apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven.” Let us keep in
mind that the apostles did witness Christ’s ascension, so we can understand how
they would draw such an inference concerning his mother.
The doctrine of the Assumption of Mary had its beginnings in the Byzantine Empire around the 6th Century. An annual feast honoring Mary gradually grew into a commemoration of Mary’s death called the Feast of Dormition (“falling asleep”). As the practice spread to the West, an emphasis was placed on Mary’s resurrection, and the glorification of Mary’s body as well as her soul, and the name of the feast was thereby changed to the Assumption. It is still observed on August 15, as it was in the Middle Ages. The Assumption of Mary was made an official dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in 1950 by Pope Pius XII.
The Bible does record God “assuming” both Enoch and Elijah into Heaven (Genesis 5:24; 2 Kings 2:11). Therefore, it is not impossible that God would have done the same with Mary. It is not wrong to believe that God “assumed” Mary into heaven. The problem is that there is no biblical basis for the Assumption of Mary. The Bible does not record Mary’s death or again mention Mary after Acts chapter 1. Rather, the doctrine of the Assumption is the result of lifting Mary to a position comparable to that of her Son. Some Roman Catholics go so far as to teach that Mary was resurrected on the third day, just like Jesus, and that Mary ascended into Heaven, just like Jesus. The New Testament teaches that Jesus was resurrected on the third day (Luke 24:7) and that He ascended bodily into heaven (Acts 1:9). To assume the same thing concerning Mary is to ascribe to her some of the attributes of Christ. While the idea of the Assumption of Mary is not heretical in and of itself; in the Roman Catholic Church, the Assumption of Mary is an important step towards why Mary is venerated, worshipped, adored, and prayed to. To teach the Assumption of Mary is a step toward making her equal to Christ, essentially proclaiming Mary’s deity.
T
Techno2000
Guest
To teach the Assumption of Mary is a step toward making her equal to Christ said:
L
LilyM
Guest
And you know this how?
Read the Martyrdom of Polycarp, who was the Apostle John’s disciple. When he was martyred his bones, considered ‘more precious than gold’, were taken for relics and honoured by his fellows.
How much more do you think would such relics of Our Lady have been prized if any existed -above all others? Yet there aren’t and never have been any relics of Mary recorded. It’s not conclusive proof that she was assumed, but certainly a glaring absence and fair evidence in this direction.
She was probably still alive at the time Acts was written - or at least still alive during the time period it relates to. Why would her Assumption be mentioned if it hadn’t happened yet??? Or tacked on to an account of the doings of the Apostles, mainly Peter and Paul? She isn’t Peter or Paul, and she was living half a world away from them most of the time. Even the other Apostles get fairly scanty mention in Acts.
More sensible would be, as actually did happen, that a separate account of her Dormition was written.
And what is there about Mary’s Assumption that makes her any more glorified than Enoch and Elijah??? Why must you assume that the intent was to semi-deify Mary any more than the accounts of their Assumptions make them into demi-gods?
I should think from your point of view the Assumption is a doddle and an afterthought after older dogmas such as the Perpetual Virginity and Immaculate Conception. It certainly doesn’t make Mary greater than the previous two dogmas.
K
kujo313
Guest
- The faithful children of the rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in heaven~Promises of Mary to Christians Who Recite the Rosary
L
LilyM
Guest
Unbiblical that someone who prays lots (and meditates on the events of Christ’s life while praying) will become closer to God and more virtuous (and gain a greater reward in heaven) as a result???
T
Techno2000
Guest
By the knowledge and understanding one gets from God after Death.
K
kujo313
Guest
P
pedja
Guest
What you mean
closer to God? What is a **greater **reward in heaven, is that something like 1st class vs. Economy?
L
LilyM
Guest
kujo313;2204026 This whole thing is taking you from what should be the center of your focus: Jesus said:Not a bit of it - it simply shows forth more greatly the glory and fathomless selfless love of Jesus that he would give such honours to his mother and that he would desire us to honour her too.[SIGN]ALLELUIA[/SIGN]
L
LilyM
Guest
Of course the more one becomes like God the dearer one is to him. And the closer.
And if greater sins bring greater punishment in Hell, as we mostly seem to be agreed they do, then it makes sense that greater good works bring greater reward in heaven.
Remember it’s a kingdom, not a communist state
and Jesus himself speaks of some sitting at his right and left hand (obviously not all can) and the Apostles judging the twelve tribes of Israel (again, obviously not all get this privilege)
P
pedja
Guest
How is it possible for God to love unequally?Of course the more one becomes like God the dearer one is to him. And the closer.
And if greater sins bring greater punishment in Hell, as we mostly seem to be agreed they do, then it makes sense that greater good works bring greater reward in heaven.
Remember it’s a kingdom, not a communist state
and Jesus himself speaks of some sitting at his right and left hand (obviously not all can) and the Apostles judging the twelve tribes of Israel (again, obviously not all get this privilege)
What do you mean with “greater punishment in Hell”, is that how long somebody will burn, like some people 10 hours per day, some 15… etc?
L
LilyM
Guest
Nothing to do with God loving us more or less, after all he loves the souls in hell too. It’s to do with US being worthy of more or less reward. Like the parable of the servants. The one who makes ten talents profit is put in charge of ten cities, the one who makes five is put in charge of five. Who says heaven doesn’t have a similar system of variable rewards?
As for hell. Do you honestly think that a Stalin, for example, who was responsible for the murders of tens of millions, would suffer precisely as much as someone who pinched a small amount of money from someone?
Many accounts of hell (and some people have had near death experiences where they’ve spent time there) do refer to punishments specifically relating to the type of sins someone committed while on Earth.
If punishments are different in type from sinner to sinner than why not in severity as well? Someone who murders one person receiving lighter punishment than someone who kills dozens for example?
P
pedja
Guest
Ok, so my question again, do you think there are gonna be people (like Stalin) who will burn 24 hours daily and some other people only 12 hours? What are they doing the rest of the day then? Or is it that they will all burn the same ammount of time but Stalin is gonna feel more pain than others?
If that is true then I am more compassionate then God himself.
E
Efrain
Guest
Code:
Your denomination is "off". Not as much as Islam, but it's still "off"... not following the narrow way.In our Sacred Tradition, which happens to be the Word of God, is impossible to contradict Sacred Scripture. Just as it is impossible for the Word of God to contradict Himself. You need clarification on what is Sacred Tradition against what is merely “tradition”.
If the Catholic Church (which is not a denomination, it is the Church of Christ) is not as “off” as Islam according to this post, then are we supposed to believe anything you say since you contradicted yourself in post # 176 claiming that the Catholic Church is worse than Islam?
E
Efrain
Guest
Praise be to Jesus Christ! You are in my prayers.
G
Good_Fella
Guest
Kujo, the Catholic Church is ‘the’ Church founded by Christ himself.
She is not one Christian “denomination” among countless Protestant
denominations.
She is not one Christian “denomination” among countless Protestant
denominations.
K
kujo313
Guest
No, the Catholic Church is a “But what about…?” denomination who goes outside the Bible and centers itself on other matters. It looks too much into the people around Christ instead of Christ, Himself.Kujo, the Catholic Church is ‘the’ Church founded by Christ himself.
She is not one Christian “denomination” among countless Protestant
denominations.
It stresses too much into what some 2nd or 3rd century “pope” says instead of the Cornerstone (Jesus).
If you’re building a house, you’re always going to have the origional blueprint with you as a guide. The Bible IS our blueprint! Yet, instead of looking at the Blueprint or working on the Cornerstone (Christ), the RCC looks at other “stones” too much.
Not only are you on shaky ground but your foundation is wrong. You decorate one of the “stones”:
aloha.net/~mikesch/sunburst.htm
gotquestions.org/lady-fatima.html
M
Magicsilence
Guest
:yup:- Status