Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).

[Antwill]

The Bible does record God “assuming” both Enoch and Elijah into Heaven (Genesis 5:24; 2 Kings 2:11). Therefore, it is not impossible that God would have done the same with Mary. It is not wrong to believe that God “assumed” Mary into heaven. The problem is that there is no biblical basis for the Assumption of Mary. The Bible does not record Mary’s death or again mention Mary after Acts chapter 1. Rather, the doctrine of the Assumption is the result of lifting Mary to a position comparable to that of her Son. Some Roman Catholics go so far as to teach that Mary was resurrected on the third day, just like Jesus, and that Mary ascended into Heaven, just like Jesus. The New Testament teaches that Jesus was resurrected on the third day (Luke 24:7) and that He ascended bodily into heaven (Acts 1:9). To assume the same thing concerning Mary is to ascribe to her some of the attributes of Christ. While the idea of the Assumption of Mary is not heretical in and of itself; in the Roman Catholic Church, the Assumption of Mary is an important step towards why Mary is venerated, worshipped, adored, and prayed to. To teach the Assumption of Mary is a step toward making her equal to Christ, essentially proclaiming Mary’s deity.

First, although you have been told time and again that we Catholics do not worship and adore Mary, you continue to propagate that falsity. There was actually a movement that was deemed heretical by the Church many years ago (can’t think of what it was called at the moment) where some misguided Catholics had raised Mary up to “goddess” status.

Your basic problem is your assumption that everything about the faith is explicitly found in scripture. It is not:

John 20:30: Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book.

John 21:25: But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.

Plus, you also assume that the Word is only just that - words. That is incorrect. God (Jesus) is the Word made flesh!

John 1:14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

You truly have blinders on to think that the full truth of Christ could be found in the written works of the entire world, let alone the bible by itself. Furthermore, to think that your fallible interpretation of those scriptures is fully sufficient is naive. Again, that’s why we have the three legs of the Catholic Church: the Bible, the Traditions, and the Magisterium - just like Christ set it up, so that we humans could have the fullness of the Truth.

I’m still waiting for you to give me some credible historical evidence as to there being another “Christian” church before the Catholic Church. I would also still like you to explain to me why there are thousands of different protestants and protestant denominations who all would say they are being guided by the Holy Spirit in their interpretations of scripture teaching thousands of different things.

 

[Al_Eluia]

No,Mary is the Closest thing to Divinity one can get.

No more so than the belief that Enoch or Elijah were taken up bodily into heaven makes THEM equal to God.

The objection I have to the Assumption is not so much that some people believe in it but that it’s proclaimed as dogma, i.e., something that MUST believed, when support for it in scripture is pretty flimsy.

 

[Antwill]

aloha.net/~mikesch/sunburst.htm

I’ll bet you LOVED the DaVinci Code.

 

[Techno2000]

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will haveTREASURS IN HEAVEN . Then come, follow me.” Mark 10:21

TREASURS IN HEAVEN

 

[LilyM]

Ok, so my question again, do you think there are gonna be people (like Stalin) who will burn 24 hours daily and some other people only 12 hours? What are they doing the rest of the day then? Or is it that they will all burn the same ammount of time but Stalin is gonna feel more pain than others?

If that is true then I am more compassionate then God himself.

I don’t pretend to know all the details, however I’d say the latter is more likely. I don’t think anyone gets ‘time off’ in hell

And your way is totally uncompassionate to the poor soul who committed one small act of thievery and yet would, by your reckoning, suffer just as much as Stalin, who was a mass-murderer of tens of millions along with all the other heinous things he did.

Remember God balances compassion with justice. His compassion lies in the fact that he offered his own Son to die for our sins, and gives us many opportunities during our lives to repent and atone and take advantage of the graces offered by Christ’s death.

His justice would seem to demand, as human justice does too, that those who commit greater crimes be punished more severely, and that greater goodness = greater reward too.

 

[Efrain]

No, the Catholic Church is a “But what about…?” denomination who goes outside the Bible and centers itself on other matters. It looks too much into the people around Christ instead of Christ, Himself

Any church outside the Catholic Church is a denomination, since they stem out from her to begin with. Instead of bearing false witness and scandalizing others, why don’t you back up your claims on how Sacred Tradition and the Living Magisterium contradict Sacred Scripture. Your assumptions that we are not Christ ceneterd shows us your ignorance about the mission of the Church.

If you’re building a house, you’re always going to have the origional blueprint with you as a guide. The Bible IS our blueprint! Yet, instead of looking at the Blueprint or working on the Cornerstone (Christ), the RCC looks at other “stones” too much.

How so? Not only do we have the full Sacred Scriptures (73 nooks) but we have the teaching authority (Magisterium) who have been sent out by Jesus Himself. We have Sacred Tradition that help us become more like Christ and in no way will ever contradict Scripture.

3:16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter

You see Scripture alone will not save you if you do not understand it. When one uses Scripture against what is good is proof that a teaching authority is needed.

“If you believe what you like in the gospels,
and reject what you don’t like,
it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.”
– St. Augustine

Each man is entitled to their own interpretation, right?

Not only are you on shaky ground but your foundation is wrong. You decorate one of the “stones”:

Shaky ground, huh? The Church has been standing since her institution by Christ, the cornerstone, and the gates of shall not prevail against it.

 

[Good_Fella]

Kujo, everything the Catholic Church does in her beliefs, teachings,
rituals, liturgy, and acts of devotion is based on Holy Scriptures. Revelation
is not shaky ground. Your misconceptions about the Catholic Church rest
on shaky ground: the human psyche.

I suggest you read ‘One Holy Catholic and Apostolic: The Early Church Was
The Catholic Church’ by Kenneth D. Whitehead. Cardinal Newman
said, “one cannot honestly study the history of Christianity and not be a
Catholic. To be deep in history is to be a Catholic.”

 

[Singinbeauty]

Nothing to do with God loving us more or less, after all he loves the souls in hell too. It’s to do with US being worthy of more or less reward. Like the parable of the servants. The one who makes ten talents profit is put in charge of ten cities, the one who makes five is put in charge of five. Who says heaven doesn’t have a similar system of variable rewards?

As for hell. Do you honestly think that a Stalin, for example, who was responsible for the murders of tens of millions, would suffer precisely as much as someone who pinched a small amount of money from someone?

Many accounts of hell (and some people have had near death experiences where they’ve spent time there) do refer to punishments specifically relating to the type of sins someone committed while on Earth.

If punishments are different in type from sinner to sinner than why not in severity as well? Someone who murders one person receiving lighter punishment than someone who kills dozens for example?

This post gave me pause for thought… I guess it would depend on what your idea of Heaven or Hell is. I read a wonderful book called ‘A Case for Faith’ by Lee Strobel and they had some good ideas as to what each will be like and one that grabbed me is that Hell won’t be a physical place of burning but the total absence of God. To me the absence of God is worse than burning in Hell forever. What gets you to either place? Your belief or disbelief in Christ and His sacrifice (oh no! protestant view!) so whether you killed millions or not wouldn’t matter on your punishment, per se, because either way it was your belief that got you where you are. Just look at the theif on the cross next to Jesus. He didn’t believe until the moment of his death and upon his belief Christ told him he would be in paradise.

 

[Singinbeauty]

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will haveTREASURS IN HEAVEN . Then come, follow me.” Mark 10:21

TREASURS IN HEAVEN

But what KIND of treasures? The thing is we don’t know precisely what Christ meant by this. I highly doubt our minds are going to be set on gold and silver trinkets when in the presence of GOD Almighty. To me it is so materialistic to think that one of the positives about Heaven is the treasure. I think of these treasures as no sadness, hopelessness, anger, pity, etc… Only LOVE. That to me is the GREATEST treasure! But I could be wrong…

 

[LilyM]

This post gave me pause for thought… I guess it would depend on what your idea of Heaven or Hell is. I read a wonderful book called ‘A Case for Faith’ by Lee Strobel and they had some good ideas as to what each will be like and one that grabbed me is that Hell won’t be a physical place of burning but the total absence of God. To me the absence of God is worse than burning in Hell forever. What gets you to either place? Your belief or disbelief in Christ and His sacrifice (oh no! protestant view!) so whether you killed millions or not wouldn’t matter on your punishment, per se, because either way it was your belief that got you where you are. Just look at the theif on the cross next to Jesus. He didn’t believe until the moment of his death and upon his belief Christ told him he would be in paradise.

What we are taught, as per our Catechism, is that the separation from God is the CHIEF punishment of Hell, not its only punishment. There is physical suffering too, to a greater or lesser degree.

And if separation from God is the only punishment and being in the presence of God the only reward then why will the bodies of those in Heaven and Hell be resurrected on the last day to share in the fate of their souls?

Surely to have your soul alone in either would, on your view, be sufficient reward or punishment??? Nothing that can be done to your body would change it, so why have your body there at all?

And faith, on our view, cannot be separated from the works which evidence that faith. As James says, is not limited to, James’ examples of feeding the hungry and clothing the naked - as well as the Good Thief’s act of rebuking those who were mocking Christ.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

In the Pieta Prayer book (the Pieta is the statue of mary holding the body of the cruifixed christ) my mother has and prays from daily there are the 15 prayers and 21 promises Jesus made to St. Bridget in the 1300s. He told her that he recieved 5480 blows to the body. And that if one recited these 15 prays along with 15 our fathers and hail marys every day one would recieve these 21 promises.

Number 8: Before his death I shall come with my dearest beloved mother

number 16: He will obtain all he asks for from God and the blessed virgin.

There is also several quotes from Mary. She told St. Dominic “One day through the rosary and the scapular I will save the world.”

This is anoughter passage:

The devils revealed to Francis of Yepes, brother of St. John of the cross, that three things especially tormented them. The first is the name of Jesus, the second the name of Mary, and the third, the brown scapular of our Lady of mt. Carmel. “take off that habit,” they cried to him, “which snatches so many souls from us. All those clothed in it die piously and escape us.”

So you see, I will not take off my scapular, I will not stop praying my rosary. I will not listen to those who deny Our Lady. Get thee behind me, Satan. Mary, Queen of Heaven, pray for us who have recoursed to thee.

 

[Singinbeauty]

What we are taught, as per our Catechism, is that the separation from God is the CHIEF punishment of Hell, not its only punishment. There is physical suffering too, to a greater or lesser degree.

Like I said, I don’t know anything for sure because only on the day that I die will all be revealed. But for me, the greatest punishment would be the separating from God. I can’t imagine the pain my soul would feel if that were to EVER happen… *shudder

And if separation from God is the only punishment and being in the presence of God the only reward then why will the bodies of those in Heaven and Hell be resurrected on the last day to share in the fate of their souls?

Surely to have your soul alone in either would, on your view, be sufficient reward or punishment??? Nothing that can be done to your body would change it, so why have your body there at all?

I believe that the bible says it all when it says we shall have NEW bodies. To enjoy the senses but perfectly in Heaven. Or not in Hell. Without God life is nothing and so is death. Without God I AM nothing. That would be the greatest pain of all.

And faith, on our view, cannot be separated from the works which evidence that faith. As James says, is not limited to, James’ examples of feeding the hungry and clothing the naked - as well as the Good Thief’s act of rebuking those who were mocking Christ.

Did I say that Faith and Works are separate? Nope, don’t think I did… Works will be evident of your Faith so if you have the Faith the works will come. I believe that as long as we are alive we need to be showing our Faith to the world through the kindness and love of our actions. Because how can you have Faith and love for God but not show it. It’s impossible if it is a TRUE Faith and Love.

 

[Singinbeauty]

There is also several quotes from Mary. She told St. Dominic “One day through the rosary and the scapular I will save the world.”

I have to say that this quote made my skin CRAWL… *shudder

 

[Goth_Catholic]

I have to say that this quote made my skin CRAWL… *shudder

I can see why. I knew it could be taken the wrong way, even by some Catholics.

See Mary’s only power is intercession. So through her intercession, the world will turn to God. Which is true no matter how you look at it, because God came into the world through her anyway. There is anoughter quote I just don’t remember the whole thing, something to the effect of those who know the mother, know the son.

 

[LilyM]

I have to say that this quote made my skin CRAWL… *shudder

You’re getting a little paranoid here SB.

St Paul discusses people he’s saved all the time … ‘I become all things to all men, that by all means ***I might save *** some’. Elsewhere he explains the saying - that it is ‘not I, but Christ who lives in me’.

 

[Singinbeauty]

You’re getting a little paranoid here SB.

St Paul discusses people he’s saved all the time … ‘I become all things to all men, that by all means ***I might save *** some’. Elsewhere he explains the saying - that it is ‘not I, but Christ who lives in me’.

Well I have been called crazier things… LOL

At least Paul explains it… and he says MIGHT save some and then says that not by himself but through Christ. She just says she WILL save them.

Just saying… the quote made my skin crawl and it continues to do so… I felt sad as soon as I read it…

 

[Goth_Catholic]

She saved millions the moment she said “Be it unto me according to your word”

 

[LilyM]

Well I have been called crazier things… LOL

At least Paul explains it… and he says MIGHT save some and then says that not by himself but through Christ. She just says she WILL save them.

Just saying… the quote made my skin crawl and it continues to do so… I felt sad as soon as I read it…

And you think she also doesn’t mean that she will do so through Christ??? We all know that we are capable of nothing good except through him.

 

[Singinbeauty]

And you think she also doesn’t mean that she will do so through Christ??? We all know that we are capable of nothing good except through him.

I never try to assume anything… But I HIGHLY doubt she uttered these exact words…

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Why?