Name 3 reasons you are not Catholic (yet).

[Mommyof02green]

Post # 411

Oh, it was the in the post that I had a hard time with…
Direct link to post 411 (click here) (because of length I could not quote post 411 here)

I’m sorry but I am not seeing this in post 411:

Also in my post: All of these vernacular Bibles, written during the first
centuries after Christ, were destroyed during the persecution of Roman Emperor Diocletian in A.D. 303.
John Foxe writes in 1583 of the worldwide persecution, testifying

I just do not see the above mention in post 411. Yes, it’s in post 474. (Post 474 is where the above quote came from). However I do not see the above in post 411 also. I see nothing in post 411 about the Roman Emperor Diocletian destroying vernacular bibles. The first I see of this in post 474.

Am I missing something? Does anyone else see mention of the Roman Emperor Diocletian destroying vernacular Bibles in post 411? Thanks! God Bless!

 

[kujo313]

Don’t you pray scripture?

The assumption of Mary was believed by Christians long before there was anything called the Roman Church.

Actually, sometimes my prayers beging with “Lord, Your word says…”
Some people in your own threads would disagree with you. Some here say that Jesus founded the roman church. The first “church” was called Christians.

 

[Techno2000]

Actually, sometimes my prayers beging with “Lord, Your word says…”
Some people in your own threads would disagree with you. Some here say that Jesus founded the roman church. The first “church” was called Christians.

Ignatius of Antioch

"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains . Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

 

[guanophore]

1. Images and Statues - I just can’t get my head around it

This makes sense, since they are to appeal to the heart, and not the head!

 

[kujo313]

Ignatius of Antioch

"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains . Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Can’t quote Scripture?

 

[Lively_Stone]

What indeed is your point. 411, 474. I simply do not keep track of everything I post as to the number nor do I see the relevance of making such a big deal out of which post I said what. My original post would have been over 9,000 words on the Goth topic, but had to cut it back so the material gets separated into bits and pieces. If you found the post it was in then what is the problem? Are you simply trying to make me look foolish. If people would stay on point there wouldn’t be so much confusion.
This is simply the worst forum for learning or teaching anything that I have ever encounted. Very stubborn people trying to make God knows what point. Who can keep up with it, with so many things being discussed. The original question posed to me was to give three reasons why I am not a Catholic yet. Now we are quibbling over what post I said what in, and you already had the answer. I believe I shared some very good History complete with referances. I didn"t just shoot it off the top of my head. But you ridicule and argue with the work Dr. G. Riplinger author of 6 college textbooks and a couple of excellent Christian History books is a renown linguist and historian.If you want to learn somthing about the History of Vernacular Bibles I recommend In Awe of Thy Word by Dr. G. Riplinger availible from AV Publications. It is the only work of its kind, and other than the Bible the best book I ever read, and I read many. Another great annointed book is One Book Stands Alone by Dr. Douglas Stauffer also available from AV publications.
avpublications.com/avnew/home.html
I believe that anyone that reads these books will find an absolute new love for the word of God which I believe is where everyone should be seaching for the truth,

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Without the word of God man cannot see his degenerated, appalling sinful condition. If not for the blood of Jesus God would have had to destroy all us and even with the Blood of Jesus we are all just filthy rags. God sees us through the blood of Jesus. We are made clean by the washing of water by the word.

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Know any churches like that. I don’t. If we are ever going to have one to present to Jesus as His Bride we better start studing his word and clean up our act and quit worshiping churchs, and realize what Paul said above.

It is a crying shame that anyone would believe that anything other than the Cross of Jesus could get them to heaven. That includes a church, a man, saints, angels or anything else. The apostle Paul said:
1Co 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2 ***For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. ***1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.

Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, **Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. **

Any problem that a person has needs to be taken to the cross of Jesus. God is no respecter of persons and that includes the higher archy of any church I attend or that anyone on this forum attends. We individually work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
So you see no teacher, preacher, priest, Pope, or any corrupt flesh can do that for us. It must be done at the cross of Jesus, there is no other way. No one can do it but Jesus. Take your eyes off him and think your something outside of God grace giving us the precious Cross and it will all be for naught. As I said before it is most difficult to stay in the spirit on this forum as most of the members do not make scriptual arguments. That puts us non Catholics in the position of not having anything edifying to offer because scripture is our final authority and our objective standand with which to measure any matter pertaining to God the Father the Holy Spirit and the only begotten Son Jesus Christ.

I would like a truthful answer from members of this forum.

1. What is the purpose of this forum for Catholics?
2. Why would you want non Catholics here knowing that we agree on so little?

 

[Efrain]

I am quite aware of that. The point remains the same. SinginBeauty said that the Body of Christ defeated Arianism. She did not say that Protestants defeated Arianism, so your response was irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant due to the fact on how the Body of Christ defeated this heresy in the first place. Ariansts used Scripture to make their claims, the Church refuted these ideas by clarifying Scripture. Now both theologies used Scripture to defend their ideas.

How then was the Church able to defeat Arianism? Arianism believed to hold the truth by their interpretation of Scripture. The Church had something they didn’t have which was Sacred Tradition and taught by the authority given to them by the Apostles.

I am just stressing the importance of Tradition and Magisterium along with Scripture for the fullness of Truth.

That is false. There were still disagreements about the exact limits of the canon, but if you would actually bother reading the writings of Athanasius or any of the other writers of that period you would see that they repeatedly appeal to the canonical Scriptures as authoritative.

Scripture was authoritive. It wasn’t canonized “officially” as we know the Bible in our present time until the Councils of Laodicea, Rome, and Synod of Hippo.

What do you mean by “strictly Catholic”?

Clearly many of the dogmas of the Catholic Church as they exist today had not yet been defined, and clearly the structures and practices of the Church were quite different (i.e., what you would call matters of “discipline.”). When Protestants hear “strictly Catholic” they tend to think you are claiming that fourth-century Christians explicitly believed and practiced everything Catholics today believe and practice–which was clearly not the case.

So perhaps you could explain just what “strictly Catholic” means. Does it simply mean that you claim that your Communion is the sole heir to that fourth-century Catholic Church? That is a controversial claim and hardly self-evident (witness the Orthodox)…

Basically what I meant is that the Church, during the time of the Arianism heresy, was Catholic in the sense that they believed in the supremacy of Rome, Tradition, and were united in doctrine. There was only one Church, not a variety of different doctrines but all believed as One.

 

[Techno2000]

Can’t quote Scripture?

Well you know what they say about Scripture :

There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. 2 Peter 3:16

 

[LilyM]

Can’t quote Scripture?

Ignatius learned from the Apostle John himself - so if you’re suggesting you know more (or even as much) about the matter than he did you are SERIOUSLY deluded.

 

[Mommyof02green]

What indeed is your point. 411, 474. I simply do not keep track of everything I post as to the number nor do I see the relevance of making such a big deal out of which post I said what.

The point is that in post 474 you said that you stated that Roman Emperor Diocletian destroyed vernacular bibles BEFORE in another post.

So I asked you which post was that because I missed that. You directed me to post 411; however after looking at 411 again I still couldn’t find that. So I just was trying to tell you that I could not find that fact in post 411.

I’m not trying to make a big deal out of it. However, according to you your questions and statements were being ignored. So I was trying to see and understand your point. I was trying to see and understand what I “overlooked”. I even asked what questions have not been answered. All of which you told me to see post 411.

You say that you said this and that already. So I just said okay where did you say that… I was trying to understand, your points in context. That is why I asked for the original post in which you stated clams such as “Roman Emperor Diocletian destroyed vernacular bibles”.

This is so I could read that in context to the original post. You directed me to post 411 and after looking at post 411 again I could not find the statement “Roman Emperor Diocletian destroyed vernacular bibles”.

If your original post was going to be over 9,000 words then perhaps you deleted statements such as “Roman Emperor Diocletian destroyed vernacular bibles”. Therefore you never really posted that clam before post 474. Although in post 474 it is my opinion that you suggested that you did post this clam before.

If you found the post it was in then what is the problem?

The problem is that in my opinion in post 474 you suggested that you have already posted the clam that “Roman Emperor Diocletian destroyed vernacular bibles”. I asked where this in was and you directed me to post 411 and I just can’t find it in post 411. Perhaps it was part of the 4,000 words that you wanted to post but couldn’t. It happens.

It is a crying shame that anyone would believe that anything other than the Cross of Jesus could get them to heaven.

There’s a little bit more to it. I mean Mathew 25 clearly shows that we are judge on what we do and fail to do.

That includes a church, a man, saints, angels or anything else.

I know that it’s between me and God. I know that it’s between me and God only. I know that when my judgment comes God will be looking at me and say okay ______ what did you do? What did you fail to do?

I would like a truthful answer from members of this forum.

1. What is the purpose of this forum for Catholics?

In my opinion to share and learn. To deepen my faith and to learn what people think from all walks of life.

1. Why would you want non Catholics here knowing that we agree on so little?

Because I like to hear things from the “horses mouth” so to speak.
If I want to know what a Jewish person think then I ask a Jewish person (Valke comes to mind). If I want to know what an Anglican thinks then I ask an Anglican (Edwin comes to mind). If want to know what a Seventh-day Adventist thinks then I ask a Seventh-day Adventist etc. The list goes on…

I then, in hope, would like to think that if a Non-Catholic wanted to know what a Catholic thought they would ask a Catholic.

Also this thread is a mixed up of all different types of topics. When this happens it does make it hard to stay focus. I would say about ½ of us about ¾ of the time are good about starting new threads so we don’t “derail” current threads.

As a matter of fact I don’t know if you know but Edwin did start a new thread just for the topic of the Gothic Bible. Link to thread started by Edwin: 1st century Gothic? (click here) I’m sure there will be better luck staying on topic “Gothic Bible” there. If you wanted to give it a shot.

 

[Mary3]

“through” = Mediator.

Here are a few excerpts from the book “The Glories of Mary” written by St. Alphonsus Liguori. All quotations are taken from the chapter entitled “Mary Our Mediatrix.”

Mary, the most faithful mediatrix of salvation.
She has been made the ladder to paradise, the gate to heaven, the most true mediatrix between God and human beings.
No creature has since received any grace from God except through the hands of Mary.
Are we then going to scruple to ask her to save us when (as St. Germanus says) no one is saved except through her?
Moreover, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 969, affirms that Mary is a mediatrix:

Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation… Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.

In contrast, the Bible declares that there is one mediator:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:5,6).

In fact, these are not contradictory or mutually exclusive statements. Let’s look carefully at the definition of the word “mediate”, from Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: 1me·di·ate
1 : occupying a middle position
2 a : acting through an intervening agency b : exhibiting indirect causation, connection, or relation

In 1 Tim 2:5-6, all 3 definitions could be substituted for “mediator”. Jesus occupies the middle position between God and man, God acts through the intervening agency of Jesus, and Jesus is the cause of our salvation, the source of our connection and relation to God the Father.

Regarding Mary, is she the mediatrix of our salvation? Does she bring us the gifts of salvation? She did in fact ‘occupy the middle position’ between God and man. For His own reasons, God used her to bring Jesus to the world. She was the intervening agent that facilitated God taking flesh and becoming human. She was the indirect connection that completed the Incarnation of the second person of the Trinity.

Does this make Mary a goddess or equal in any way to her Son? The Church denies that Mary is anything more than a mere human. She happens to be the most blessed of all humans because of the unique assignment allotted to her. She is the mother of God the Son, and she was given the responsibilities of any mother: to love, nurture, protect, and raise her Child. She had the singular honor to be entrusted with the infant and child Jesus, to meet all of his human needs for a mother. We honor her because of God’s choice and because she perfectly fulfilled His will for her.

 

[Mary3]

My foundation is Christ (Matt 21:42; Mark 12:10; Luke 20:17; Acts 4:11; 1Peter 2:6-7)

But what does Paul teach in 1 Tim 3:15 about the pillar and foundation of truth?

 

[Mary3]

I would like a truthful answer from members of this forum.

1. What is the purpose of this forum for Catholics?
2. Why would you want non Catholics here knowing that we agree on so little?

1. Many topics and many purposes. We help and support each other, and we welcome dialogue with our Christian and non-Christian brothers and sisters.
2. Because we love you. Because we love our faith and want to share that love with those who do not (yet) love it.

 

[pedja]

1. Many topics and many purposes. We help and support each other, and we welcome dialogue with our Christian and non-Christian brothers and sisters.
2. Because we love you. Because we love our faith and want to share that love with those who do not (yet) love it.

Your first point is ok, help and support each other. I found a lot of useful infos on this forum. Trash as well, but not so much.

Your second point… nice from you but I think it`s hopeless. I dont see any reason why I should love your faith or even leave my faith and join yours. I reckon that is the case with most of the non-Catholics here.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Your first point is ok, help and support each other. I found a lot of useful infos on this forum. Trash as well, but not so much.

Your second point… nice from you but I think it`s hopeless. I dont see any reason why I should love your faith or even leave my faith and join yours. I reckon that is the case with most of the non-Catholics here.

We don’t expect you to leave your faith unless God allows it. Since it is the Holy Spirit who converts the hearts of men.

There are many Catholic beliefs that have been misunderstood by Protestants and accused them of idolatry and teaching false doctrine. We, Catholics, at CAF want YOU to have the correct information why we believe our doctrines, and why we love it.

We want you to know what is Real Catholic Church teachings not false misconceptions made by Anti-Catholic Protestant Apologist like James White, Jack Chick, or from Ex-Catholics who have no clue what we believe.

 

[pedja]

We don’t expect you to leave your faith unless God allows it. Since it is the Holy Spirit who converts the hearts of men.

There are many Catholic beliefs that have been misunderstood by Protestants and accused them of idolatry and teaching false doctrine. We, Catholics, at CAF want YOU to have the correct information why we believe our doctrines, and why we love it.

We want you to know what is Real Catholic Church teachings not false misconceptions made by Anti-Catholic Protestant Apologist like James White, Jack Chick, or from Ex-Catholics who have no clue what we believe.

I believe in Jesus Christ so I don`t think God would allow to leave my faith (I hope so at least )

I actually did not have any misconceptions about the Catholic church. This forum has been very helpful in getting an insight into Catholicism and I found it extremely interesting although I must admit it strengthened my Protestant faith even more.

 

[believers]

But what does Paul teach in 1 Tim 3:15 about the pillar and foundation of truth?

Why didn’t Paul mention anything about a pope in Chapter 3? You seem very convinced that this verse is talking about the RCC.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Why didn’t Paul mention anything about a pope in Chapter 3? You seem very convinced that this verse is talking about the RCC.

There was only ONE church at the time. We maintain that that ONE church was the Catholic Church.

Roman Catholicism is just one part of the Catholic Church. There are Eastern Catholics too.

That is why our catechism cover states “Catechism of the Catholic Church”. This is to acknowledge both East (Eastern Catholics) and West (Roman Catholics) that make up the Catholic Church.

More info on East and West: americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0106.asp

 

[Contarini]

As a matter of fact I don’t know if you know but Edwin did start a new thread just for the topic of the Gothic Bible. Link to thread started by Edwin: 1st century Gothic? (click here) I’m sure there will be better luck staying on topic “Gothic Bible” there. If you wanted to give it a shot.

Yes, I’m working on a post in response to Lively Stone for that thread, but it’s final exam week and I have very limited time.

Edwin

 

[Mannyfit75]

I believe in Jesus Christ so I don`t think God would allow to leave my faith (I hope so at least )

I actually did not have any misconceptions about the Catholic church. This forum has been very helpful in getting an insight into Catholicism and I found it extremely interesting although I must admit it strengthened my Protestant faith even more.

The only problem I see with Protestantism itself (not Protestant) is the doctrine it professes because it is neither supported by Scripture nor Traditions.

If you read Patristic writings of the Early Church Fathers, you will find the Early Church was Eastern, very Liturgical in worship where the Eucharist is the center of worship.

There is no historical proof text that the Apostles and their successors ever supported the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, Faith Alone, the Rapture (which says that Jesus will have Two Second Coming, OSAS; which I understand not all Protestant believe in)…

You find that Early Christians had Catholic rites and practices… any form of Alter Calls is not found anywhere in either the Bible nor Christian traditions…